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» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » I'm going to be in a union!

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Author Topic: I'm going to be in a union!
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 04 October 2006 07:59 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, I got a new day job that starts in the middle of October, and it's a unionized position. I'm pretty happy about it - I've never been in a union before.

One thing I'll say is that I've learned so much about labour issues on babble over the past five and a half years. I have occasionally wished I was in a union in a couple of really horrid jobs in the past, but for the most part I haven't really cared much one way or the other when the job is relatively comfortable.

When I started on babble, I really didn't know much about how unions worked, or their reasoning behind taking some of the stands that they do, and that at first I didn't find myself agreeing with. But most of the time, arguments here have won me over and made me understand, and while I was always relatively pro-union (especially when arguing with people who were against), I am moreso now than I ever was before, after having been exposed to a lot of excellent information and discussions about it.

So, I am pretty happy about the prospect of belonging to one.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8163

posted 04 October 2006 08:07 AM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Welcome aboard! I think you'll find belonging to a union is a lot like a pilot with a parachute... You can go for a long time without even realizing the benefits, but then one day when you're in a bind you will thank heavens you have it... Also, depending on your union, there's often a lot of extra-curricular activities, and leadership caucuses you can get involved in. I get many free breakfasts and lunches for union meetings. It's also a great chance to mingle with other progressive minded people.
From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 04 October 2006 08:07 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, make sure you go to the meetings even if you cannot participate much more than that. And get yourself a copy of the terms and conditions of work or Collective Agreement.The CA (for some reason many people refer to it as the CBA or Collective Bargaining Agreement) will include matters of rates of pay, hours of work and all that good stuff. The heart of any CA, however, is the method of resolving disputes, typically called the Grievance Procedure. The important part of this, for a regular rank and file member, are the timelines of each step of the procedure. Become familliar with the ins and outs of this; it is important should you have a matter of dispute and want to know the general outline of how things will proceed.

Finally, find out the duration of the CA. When does it start and when does it end? In the period prior to the end of any CA is a "window" during which negotiations can start for the next CA. This is the time you should think about improvements to the CA.

If there is no CA then your union has a duty to go ahead and negotiate one. Good luck, sister!

Supplemental: Larger unions have many opportunities for learning and so on. Look into this and take advantage of these as much as you are able. You will be able to meet active members who will provide a great and realistic example to emulate.

[ 04 October 2006: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Howard R. Hamilton
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12868

posted 04 October 2006 08:11 AM      Profile for Howard R. Hamilton        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Congratulations on your new job. Hope that your stint with a union is as happy as you expect it to be.

My personal experiences with unions do leave a lot to be desired, though. Unions were definately necessary at one time, and in certain areas are still necessary, but they tend to attract the "deadweight" and reduce the productivity of the organizations that I have seen them in.


From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 04 October 2006 08:56 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Funny, I feel the same way about middle managers. One man's ceiling is another man's floor, eh?
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bathurst Quaygal
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13254

posted 04 October 2006 09:00 AM      Profile for Bathurst Quaygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Howard R. Hamilton:
Congratulations on your new job. Hope that your stint with a union is as happy as you expect it to be.

My personal experiences with unions do leave a lot to be desired, though. Unions were definately necessary at one time, and in certain areas are still necessary, but they tend to attract the "deadweight" and reduce the productivity of the organizations that I have seen them in.


Mine too Howard but I'll keep my negativity to myself for Michelles sake.
Congratulations on your new job!! Hope you end up loving it!


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13076

posted 04 October 2006 09:53 AM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
So, I got a new day job that starts in the middle of October, and it's a unionized position. I'm pretty happy about it - I've never been in a union before.

Congratulations on your new job, Moderator Michelle. I hope this doesn't mean you're leaving the Rabble (who the Hell else is going to keep reminding me of the "limits" around here).

Too bad Rabble isn't union shop. Maybe you folks could work on that too.

BTW, take N. Beltov's advice seriously. It's up to you as a union member to get informed and involved. Don't wait for someone to pull you in. Take initiative. That works best.

And don't be too put off by the usual BS like:

quote:
My personal experiences with unions do leave a lot to be desired, though. Unions were definately necessary at one time, and in certain areas are still necessary, but they tend to attract the "deadweight" and reduce the productivity of the organizations that I have seen them in.

The truth is unions are more than just necessary. They are historically proven essential organizations in building any kind of democratic cooperative community and prosperous and sustainable economy.

The worn out "unions were necessary" crap is usually just wishful thinking on the part of corporate cliques looking to maintain their dictatorial exploitative rule over everything.

And don't worry about the "deadweight" stuff you might hear, either. You often find the people who complain the most about deadweight are the people who are the most overpaid and least productive: the bosses, senior stockholders and the layers of useless corporate management.

But don't be too surprised if you meet the occasional pooch-humper among the work force. Given the rotten values our capitalist dominated economy pushes, like short-changing, get rich quick and easy, climb the corporate ladder, get ahead at others' expense and suck-hole to undemocratic authority, it's amazing all of us aren't gold-brickers of some kind.

Usually, though, the biggest doggers are the biggest brown-nosers to the boss. That's how they get away with it. You won't find too many of these types to be really interested in union activism, since that takes courage, patients and hard mostly unpaid work.

Anyway, I hope the job works out for you and, if it's interesting enough, you take advantage of whatever union training or trade advancement programs there might be and maybe make a growing career out of it.

I admire your enthusiasm. I wish more people had your drive and positive resolve.

All the best to you.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 04 October 2006 10:10 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, congrats Michelle!

My experience with unions is that I've been involved in unions the two times that I've worked in workplaces that were unionized. Both times as a steward and as part of the negotiating committee. At one place we were on strike for 17 days! A successful strike in some ways, but that's another story.

I've been a manager now for over 8 years and I bring a pro-union and pro-worker position to that side of the bargaining table. Something that I wish all managers did.


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276

posted 04 October 2006 11:18 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Being in a union is a beginning, not an end.

The union is its members, plus its structure. Hard to generalize about unions.

For example:

How big is the bargaining unit? how big is your local union? (That's usually the same question, although not always.) A small bargaining unit can mean a weak union, whereas a huge one might mean an impersonal union.

What is the union? A strong Canadian union like CUPE or CEP can give you all kinds of side benefits and opportunities.

Are the other members in your local active? A union whose members gripe about working conditions but fail to come out to union meetings has a problem it needs to address.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Red T-shirt
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5872

posted 04 October 2006 06:08 PM      Profile for Red T-shirt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Congratulations Michelle and a warm welcome to the house of labour "Sister".
You've already recieved some excellent advice here from Beltov and others. Of course the usual tired complaints came out too, but they were very nicely rebutted by Steppenwolf Allende (great post SA).
The important thing to remember is that from your first day "you are the union". It's not "them" or "the executive" and you're not just along for the ride. The union is you and all of your co-workers. If things are not being done as they should be, it's nobody elses fault. Workers need to be involved with their unions so attend the meetings, find out what's going on and don't be afraid to speak your mind. These are your meetings and the executive is only there to represent you and to do your bidding.

As pointed out by others, there are lots of opportunities for your participation and learning too. I hope to see a post from you in the not too distant future saying that you have become a Steward or are running for the executive. You go girl!


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 04 October 2006 06:23 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle,

I'm thrilled. Besides all being "progressive" (whatever that means), we're now in the same "trade union movement" (whatever that means). I've been here for almost 35 years, and I swear it's just as frustrating and rewarding as at the start.

1. Follow Beltov's advice - it's sound.

2. What Wilf said about people. If anyone tells you "Union X is better than Union Y", just nod and smile. All I'll agree with is that some unions are beyond hope. Among those that aren't, it's the individuals that make the difference. Think of school. Good school, bad school? Not in my experience. Good teacher - you can luck out and find her/him anywhere, and away you go. The union's like that. And who knows, the "good teacher" will probably turn out to be you.

In solidarity,
unionist


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sharon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4090

posted 04 October 2006 06:37 PM      Profile for Sharon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
... and don't be afraid to speak your mind.

As if!

I'm happy for you too, Michelle.


From: Halifax, Nova Scotia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457

posted 04 October 2006 10:27 PM      Profile for CUPE_Reformer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle,

Congratulations.

You should read the union's constitution and local bylaws.

What is the name of the union?

[ 04 October 2006: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]


From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 October 2006 01:53 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh wow, I've been really sick yesterday afternoon and evening and throughout the night (which is why I'm up in the middle of the night - I think I might be coming down with the flu - fever, shakes, congestion, night sweats, and a swelled up back of the throat) so I didn't get a chance to get back to this thread.

Thanks everyone. Oh, I'm going to be in OPSEU. And yes, I have the collective agreement already - the HR office gave me a copy. And I'll keep in mind what the rest of you say about getting involved. I'm already overinvolved in so many things, but it'll be worth at least attending meetings.

[ 05 October 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 05 October 2006 04:49 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Congrats, Michelle! I worked in non-union places for 12 years. On one occasion, I was fired for refusing to wear a pink bow-tie (!) and on another occasion, I was not re-hired after my maternity leave ended. When you work for a large corporation and there's a dispute, labour law pretty much leaves you twisting in the wind. So in that way, unions rock.

I do have some issues with OPSEU, however. In 2002, they took their members into a strike in the middle of a change in government, meaning that no negotiations were possible for five weeks because there was no-one to negotiate with. My OPSEU friends say they'll never get those lost wages back.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 06 October 2006 07:09 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sineed, I would encourage you to provide Michelle with more details about that conflict. What was the result, for example? Did the members get a better contract at the end of the day? Better wages? Giving only part of the story might prejudice her against ever going on strike ... and we don't want that, do we?

After all, even a turtle only makes progress by sticking its neck out. Was it simply bad strategy (in your view)?

On the other hand, swamping a newbie with the ins and outs of union politics might discourage them from any participation or involvement.

I forgot to add one thing; being a member in a union is a grand way to make new friends with like-minded people. Just like babble.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 06 October 2006 07:46 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
N. Beltov, it's irrelevant whether or not the workers ended up with a better contract. My point was not that they went on strike at all, but that they went on strike right at a change in government, costing members five weeks of wages for no good reason. I mean, how can you negotiate when there's nobody to negotiate with?

It's better not to presume that the union leadership is all-knowing.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brian White
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8013

posted 10 October 2006 01:31 AM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have worked in union and non union jobs. The union jobs had better wages and conditions.
I worked for Danone and they had unions.
And they are so big they even have their own soccer world cups. (mens and womens)
That was the most efficient company I ever worked for.
None union jobs also attract deadweight. The stressy deadweight of hirem firem managers.
So you can never be efficient because you are constantly training new workmates.
I worked with a deaf girl at danone on the factory floor. She was as fast as the others.
But would probably be assigned the role of deadweight at a none union company (and fired or paid less) for no good reason. After a while, you accept the world and accept that some people are slower than others. Not everyone is a machine, and those who think they are break down mentally or physically long before the slow ones.


quote:
Originally posted by Howard R. Hamilton:
Congratulations on your new job. Hope that your stint with a union is as happy as you expect it to be.

My personal experiences with unions do leave a lot to be desired, though. Unions were definately necessary at one time, and in certain areas are still necessary, but they tend to attract the "deadweight" and reduce the productivity of the organizations that I have seen them in.



From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

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