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Author Topic: CN Rail & VIA, You Irk Me.
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 September 2002 02:05 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two weeks ago I purchased a student ticket for my youngest, so she could stay with a friend of mine in Toronto for the weekend, and have fun.

The ticket said, "depart London: 1548, Arrive Toronto 17:45." I'm not leaving anything out here, like "All times appoximate" or "About 15:48" or "subject to change".

It was pretty declarative about the time.

It was my intention, of course, to see my youngest right onto the train, so I lined up. At about the same time a huge east bound frieght came through on one of the many tracks and glided to a stop.

I checked one of the many monitors in London's wonderful new Via station (completed, fittingly enough, behind schedule) and it indicated train number 76 from Windsor and Chatham was on time.

And, it maintained that blatant falsehood for the next hour, until the 15:48 train departed at 16:50.

For my time, however, I was compensated with standing in front of someone who had apparently been not just eating, but bathing in Garlic for the past decade or so, and wondering if people can do this, why can't I smoke? Equally ignorant habits.

As is my habit, I digress.

I questioned a VIA employee about the delay, after I saw my daughter actually depart the station on the train. She said that the frieght train that stopped blocked the incoming VIA, wich was in fact on time coming into London. The frieght in question had a faulty brake on one of the cars that needed repair.

Now, this is of course important. But CN could have parked that train elsewhere in London rather spacious yard to effect reapairs. I question the wisdom of stopping the frieght with it's several sulfuric acid tankers right beside a full passenger station.

Then, CN could have allowed Train #76 into the station after that frieght was repaired and passed, but oh no. It couldn't spare the 5 minutes for VIA to come in and load. It had to clear it's back log of other frieght trains first.

Such arrogance and lack of proffessionalism on both VIA and CN is outrageous.

And in as much as it won't matter one whit, you better believe my M.P., the minister of Transport, and anyone else remotely connected to this theft of our time, and breach of contract on the VIA ticket will get an e-mail.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 28 September 2002 02:13 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've read that since VIA doesn't own the track (CN does), VIA gets screwed over big time.

In fact, some guy I read a while back says it's a big reason why VIA will never be a transport of choice, because of their subservience to whoever owns the track.


I hated taking VIA (took it from TO to Quebec City). It wasn't any faster than car and it was a hell of a lot more expensive.

And their seats annoyed me, too. Too much space to put my legs up on the seat back, too little space to move my legs around. Infuriating.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 28 September 2002 02:31 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And it should be the transport of choice in the Windsor - Quebec corridor, at least!

Agree with everything you say (though I don't and won't drive) except the seats - I find Via seats much more roomy and comfortable than bus seats. And you can read in a train without getting carsick, and walk around. The scenery is much prettier too as it isn't the autoroute.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 28 September 2002 02:40 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm just over six feet tall.

I prefer putting my legs up against the back of the seat since, usually, that is the only way I can be comfortable on all the buses and such I take. So the extra room for you translates into me being less comfortable.

I can go into a deep sleep on the GO bus (often do) but, as I've tried on numerous occasions, I can't sleep on the train.

GO buses rule.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 28 September 2002 04:51 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm, wondering how train seats could be made more comfortable for tall people. Funny, you aren't what I'd call very tall for a young fellow, I've never heard anyone complain about the train seats (bus seats, and economy plane seats, always!). Should they put in bulkheads? Recently I've taken the Thalys between Paris and Amsterdam a few times - some of their seats face each other and those seem to provide more legroom. The Dutch are so bloody tall. Even older men are often over 6 feet, and young guys your age... you'd practically be short!
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 September 2002 05:01 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm just a bit shorter than clockwork, coming in at 6'2". (remember, always subtract three inches from "on line" measurements to arrive at the "real life" measurements) I find the seats not too uncomfortable, but would like it if the new rolling stock had the heater on the floor next to the wall, where you could put your foot up for a while, with your leg bent.

There are a couple of things I can't do on the train. One of them is sleep. A few times I've gone to Toronto after night shift, thinking "I'll catch an hour or so on the train", but the scenery always keeps me awake.

Next time, I'm going to take the northern branch out of London, by way of St. Mary's, Stratford, and Kitchener. It's a more spectacular crossing of the Escarpment than the southern branch that goes by way of Ancaster.

.....Ancaster?.......


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 28 September 2002 05:10 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Then, CN could have allowed Train #76 into the station after that frieght was repaired and passed, but oh no. It couldn't spare the 5 minutes for VIA to come in and load. It had to clear it's back log of other frieght trains first.


Just a note. Passenger trains have the highest priority when using frieght tracks, but a broken brake on a train could end up being a very bad accident, especially if it is carrying dangerous goods. It is pretty hard to find a place to "park" a mile long train. IF they take the train apart it will take about two hours or so to get it going again. IF there are other trains planned behind said train, and VIA is behind THEM, well, you can't really arrange a "meet" to allow trains to pass one another very easily. It is a bit easier if there are two main lines for a good streach, but that will still only hold two trains. If one train is behind another they pretty much have to stay that way.

So, while that train was sitting at the station awaiting either repairs, or an opportunity to "set out" a broken car (in which case, like I say, it will take a LONG time to get the train ready to roll again) every other train behind it was sitting too, waiting their turn.

You can't shuffle tens of thousands of tonnes around like a deck of cards. But if it makes you feel any better Tommy, someone likely got into VERY BIG SHIT for what happened that day.

quote:
I question the wisdom of stopping the frieght with it's several sulfuric acid tankers right beside a full passenger station.

If the cars aren't moving then they are really very safe. But, it does make sense to be aware of what trains are carrying through your city. It is pretty frightening, especially since securing these cars against terrorism is virtually impossible. I guess the bad guys just haven't thought of that yet.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: skadie ]


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 September 2002 05:39 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In London, Skadie, the trains have MILES to park. From Hale street (soon to be an over pass) all the way to the VIA station. True, some might say this would block Egerton and Rectory crossings, and Colbourne, Maitland and a few other streets.

But that doesn't seem to bother CN too much as they do this as a matter of routine anyway.

The people who run the other stock yard for C.P. ignored people complaining about them using very busy gateways into the core, Adelaide and Richmond streets, to shunt across at all hours. It fell on deaf ears, the claim being they had no choice-- even though there are a couple of miles without any crossings between Adelaide and First street to the east.

They maintained this untill a woman got killed near Richmond street. Now they don't shunt this way anymore.

The same company claimed that they couldn't shut down parked locomotives whose noise was annoying nearby residents. Bad for Diesel Engines, they claimed.

Unfortunately for them, one of the City Councillors from that ward worked at G.M. Diesel where they make locomotives, and start and stop them all the time, to no harm of the engines.

I mean, these people are so arrogant, they can't even bother to make plausible lies.

That, however, isn't CN.

CN is the company that responded to an accident where a little girl got her arm amputated in the Stock yard by saying "Well, everyone knows you're not supposed to play in stock yards..." Yes, and everyone also knows that kids are kids. That's why every other industry puts up fences so this kind of thing doesn't happen.

I think they are crass, arrogant and irresponsible with public safety, not to mention my, by comparasson, petty complaint about the hour delay.

And VIA.

A few weeks ago, a young woman was killed here at the Hale street crossing. A frieght was shunting on one track, and when it cleared, she crossed. Unfortunately, a VIA train was zooming up along side the frieght, and killed her. She had no way to see it, but, of course, shouldn't have crossed on the sidewalk where there are no barriers.

A VIA spokeswoman in the paper said it was VIA policy that engineers blow the whistle at every level crossing-- implying that if anyone is to blame, the lawyers better start with the engineer.

Again, so arrogant to not even construct a viable lie. VIA, if it even has such a policy, does not enforce it-- even now, even at that crossing.

I think I have reason to be sceptical of claims made by railway companies.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 28 September 2002 06:08 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I think they are crass, arrogant and irresponsible with public safety, not to mention my, by comparasson, petty complaint about the hour delay.


Trust me Tommy, I am not defending the companies. They are crass, arrogant and irresponsible. They need to educate the public more on what could happen to them if they fail to obey lighted signs at level crossings, and if they choose to trespass on railroad property. Every engineer I work with has been involved in at least one fatality. Unfortunately they are more interested in PR and defending against litigation than in the safety of the public or their employees. You'd be lucky to simply lose a limb in a train accident. It is rare that people survive run ins with trains.

But the reality is that the cost of gating every rail yard, the cost of blocking every sidewalk at every level crossing is just too much. If the public insists on ignoring no trespassing signs and red lights/bells/gates at crossings, the public will continue to loose lives.

Canadian Rail Operating Rules state a public crossing cannot be blocked for more than 5 minutes. It happens now and then, but not too too often. It is worth noting that they yards have probably been around for a century, and the crossings were built around them.

In Vancouver trains move 25 000 truck loads DAILY in and out of the city. Can you imagine what our streets would look like without trains?

One mainline in the lower mainland runs right between a major tourist street and the beach beyond it. When travelling on a train through this corridor there are at least ten little crosses erected by families who lost loved ones. I suggested that a plaque be placed near the crossings with the names of the people that died on the tracks. (You constantly run into people walking their dogs or going for a jog RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACKS.) People assume that they will be able to hear trains, which isn't the case with a quarter mile long ribbon rail they use these days. People assume the train will stop. The general rule is trains don't stop until they hit something. It is simply too dangerous (and useless) to throw a train into emergency braking, and usually the people get out of the way.

The plaque won't go up because of the PR issues. People will continue to use rail lines to walk on because they are a great way to get around.

All I can say is BE CAREFUL OF TRAINS. DO NOT WALK ON OR ALONG THE TRACKS. OBEY STOP SIGNS NEAR TRACKS. People die every day. You won't hear about it on the news because the companies are all powerful. You have no idea how big and important the business is.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: skadie ]


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 September 2002 06:17 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I forget sometimes that when I get a little impassioned on a subject, it might sound as if I was impassioned against you, which isn't the case.

Sometimes this crank has a long festering bee in his bonnet, and it bursts forth.

quote:
But the reality is that the cost of gating every rail yard, the cost of blocking every sidewalk at every level crossing is just too much.

I'm not even totally convinced of this. When I was in England I travelled frequently by rail, and noted very, very few level crossings.

Granted, there's less distance in England, but at the same time, there's less urbanization here.

I tend to think that elimination of level crossings in urban areas over time should be a matter of fact.

It might be cheaper to in fact move stock yards like they exist in London to rural areas-- as they were originally. People don't realize that CN & CP don't pay municiple tax on what is prime core area real estate. Considering the tax revenue that stands to be gained, I can't see where a win/win situation couldn't be worked out for everyone.....

Except maybe some rural folk....

Well, heck pay them off generously.

Win win win.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 28 September 2002 06:20 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I tend to think that elimination of level crossings in urban areas over time should be a matter of fact.


It is, as a matter of fact, a major goal of every railroad. And don't worry Tommy. I take none of this personally. I just hope that people take my warnings seriously. It is hard enough to kill animals on the rail. I am not looking forward to the inevitable day when a person dies by my train.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: skadie ]


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 September 2002 06:22 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"over time", I said, not "over all time"


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 28 September 2002 06:39 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
People don't realize that CN & CP don't pay municiple tax on what is prime core area real estate.

This may have something to do with the fact that

quote:
In Vancouver trains move 25 000 truck loads DAILY in and out of the city. Can you imagine what our streets would look like without trains?



CN and CP basically maintain a highway in Canada. A very expensive highway. They are fundimentally the reason the West exists.

Besides, I'd rather see their employees get sick days and long-term disability insurance before they start paying municiple tax.

I know, I know. Big Yawn, but you have chosen a topic dear to my heart Tommy. And a facsinating one at that.


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 28 September 2002 07:08 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wasn't saying that CN or CP should pay municiple tax. The reason they don't is because the land holdings are so necessarily vast, they just couldn't, and I don't have a problem with that.

But let's remember that perhaps with the exception of port cities, rail shunt yards were first located in the country, outside city limits. Cities grew around them and this is what the problem is.

This land, besides being a new tax base for municipalities like London-- and hundreds of others-- it's also an opportunity to create park land, and housing-- housing in the core of a city, which is very important these days.

I'm not a numbers guy, and I don't have the information handy that would show me plausible or not, but what if London (for example only: London won't do anything like this, even if shown wonderously feasable) bought a chunk of land in the country, well outside projected future growth?

They could then "give" this land to CN/CP for a rail yard. The cost could be amortized over a long period, based on conservative projections of tax revenue gained by the new land vacated in the core by CN/CP.

CN/CP might object on the basis that there are construction costs at the new site, and clean up costs at the old, but on the other hand, the current rail yards were laid out in the 1800's-- I would have a hard time believing that substantial efficiencies would not come along with a modernized stock yard, justifying those capital expenditures.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 28 September 2002 11:40 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Skadie, I was sure that there were problems with VIA using CN track but I think I'll defer to you since, obviously, you seem a tad bit knowledgeable about train tracks and the things the go "choo-choo" over them.

And TP, I meant to ask, why didn't you just give your daughter a bus ticket? It's probably cheaper, the bus is almost guaranteed to leave on time, the bus depot doesn't double as a hazardous chemical terminal and while you won't end up at Union Station, you do end up just a few blocks north (I know this cause I've taken the London-TO bus before).


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2002 12:00 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, the bus is MUCH MUCH cheaper, especially when you factor in the student fare.

If your friend was going to meet her at the station, then it probably wouldn't matter whether it was the bus terminal or Union station.

Besides, the bus terminal is practically on the subway anyhow - a quick walk through an underground causeway (very, very clearly marked with "SUBWAY" and directing arrows) will get her to (I think) Dundas Station at the Eaton Centre (Or is it Queen? No, I think it's Dundas), or a quick walk along the street in the opposite direction, going west, will get her to (I think) St. Patrick Station.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 29 September 2002 08:12 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The bus was a consideration, Clockwork, but I went with the train for a few reasons.

Although my friend could meet my daughter almost at once after getting off the bus (VIA has that walk from the train through Union Station) the bus terminal is not a place for young girls to be getting off, after having been there myself. My friend shared my opinion on this too. While I thought I might be being over protective, and would have gone the bus route if my friend would have prefered this, but she didn't.

And, I considered that since the bus would be going through rush hour traffic, there was a greater likelyhood of delay.

There was also the fact my youngest, while having experienced Greyhound before, had never been on a train.

And, I guess I'm a slack jawed yokel, but it's always been special to me, walking through Union station out to the Royal York and that big Gold building I don't know the name of.

For the first time in Toronto, the Union Station entrance makes a better first impression than the bus terminal does.

I'm sorry it had to be such a negative first experience. She phoned yesterday, and told me she sat beside a crying baby all the way to Toronto.

I don't know what student rates are for the bus, but for me, the bus is only a couple dollars cheaper. The only real advantage the bus might have is that return is open ended, you can hop a bus when you feel like it.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 29 September 2002 08:43 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, lost in all this is a something I forgot to mention, like how I think Skadie has a really neat job.

And in fairness, a list of stupid train things I've done.

While walking home from work, walking through a parked train on the CN mainline. Not that this part was too dangerous-- I chose a tanker or hopper car that had a handrail on the back, and kept a tight grip with at least one hand at all times.

The really dumb part was having felt good about the safe traverse, I jumped off onto the second track without looking. Oh, nothing was coming, and I likely would have heard an approaching train on the other track, but I didn't look.


Second really dumb thing happened on my way to work in the middle of the night. I think it was about 3:30 am, and the gates were down at the Clarke Side Road crossing. I sat for a quite a while, and didn't even hear a locomotive. I moved up close to the gate, and there was no locomotive light as far as I could see in either direction, and you can see for miles at this point.

So, I weaved through the gate. About 50 feet on the other side, I heard a train horn, and there was a locomotive with a box car on the front. It had been servicing a lumber yard on a siding.

I was never in the habit of going through gates anyway so, it's not a big deal to say I'd never do it again.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 29 September 2002 11:14 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I love trains. Too bad they are so underfunded and slow here. For me, taking the bus (or a car for a long trip) is extremely disagreeable as I get a bit carsick, especially if I read - and I always read. I can tolerate the bus and bookless boredom to Ottawa or Québec City, but to Toronto, I'd definitely take the train, and do what I could to find a discount fare.

God, when I was young, I sure remember some creepy incidents at the bus terminal in Toronto. Nothing dangerous - things like flashers. But that's an aside.

I haven't seen many of those 40% discount coupons recently. I know one can buy a book of - what is it, six one-way tickets (not necessarily to be used as three returns), which is quite pricy up-front, it was marketed mostly to small businesses and people who commute occasionally.

Of course (sigh...) the TGV does Paris-Lyon (a long way, not sure how many km) in 2 hours flat, and is rarely late. But it has a designated line.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 29 September 2002 11:29 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is it about bus terminals?

My mother told me about an incident she had-- this must have been in the early fifties, before I was born-- in the Detroit Bus Depot, while changing buses so she could go visit her sister in Indiana.

She was in a bathroom stall with no doors, the depot being delapidated, and a woman asked her if she needed help pulling up her panties.

She laughed about it years later, but she said at the time she was totally confused, not knowing why another woman would make such an odd offer.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2002 01:21 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's pretty weird.

I find the Toronto bus terminal fine - no weird incidents or anything. And before getting married, while my ex lived in Toronto and I lived in Kingston, I travelled by bus to Toronto 15 or 16 times - once a month. Always a pleasant experience, never a problem in the bus terminals - in fact, the one main departure terminal is really quite nice. The arrivals terminal isn't quite as nicely done as the departure terminal, but it's still okay.

As for the train being a cool first experience coming to Toronto - I agree, that area around Union Station is awesome. But the cool thing about the bus is that you get to see all the tall buildings as you drive through the downtown core coming to the terminal. It always gave me a real thrill in the pit of my stomach, even after the 10th time seeing it.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 29 September 2002 01:46 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I find the Toronto bus terminal fine - no weird incidents or anything.

My ex-roommate at one time had a boyfriend down in Portland, Oregon. Waiting in bus terminals in Seattle and Portland, she was often approached by slimy-looking guys, using lines on the order of "Hey babe, you need a place to stay or anything?" Pimps, she reckoned. An ancient urban trope... fifty or a hundred years ago, they likely did the same in train stations, and before that at stage-coach depots.

quote:
that big Gold building I don't know the name of.

The Royal Bank building, likely.

quote:
As for the train being a cool first experience coming to Toronto - I agree, that area around Union Station is awesome. But the cool thing about the bus is that you get to see all the tall buildings as you drive through the downtown core coming to the terminal. It always gave me a real thrill in the pit of my stomach, even after the 10th time seeing it.

When I lived in Toronto I often took the bus, or train, between there and Ottawa. Whichever way I got back to the Bright Lights of the Big City, I had the same feeling as you.

quote:
Well, lost in all this is a something I forgot to mention, like how I think Skadie has a really neat job.

She does indeed! You realize, skadie, you're likely the envy of millions of small boys everywhere -- and no doubt small girls, nowadays. Was it a childhood ambition of yours to work on the trains?

(Digression: I actually achieved my first childhood career ambition, and it only took me till age 19. When I was 2, we lived next to an Ontario Hydro transformer station. Every day, my dad went off to work for Hydro. I didn't know quite what he did, but once in a while someone come from Hydro and cut the grass around the station. So when people asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up, I'd say "work for Hydro like my dad, and cut the grass."

Later, aged 19 and 20, I worked for Hydro for two summers. The first year, with the other summer students, I was on the Forestry crew, but we didn't start at that right away because we needed a few days' training. While waiting for that, we did various odd jobs around the yard. One day the foreman asked me, could I run a gas lawnmower. Of course I could. So... I cut the grass for Ontario Hydro. Luckily, this didn't amount to peaking early).

quote:
Every engineer I work with has been involved in at least one fatality.

In 1993, I took the Canadian from Vancouver to Toronto. In Orillia, a pickup truck tried to beat the train across a level crossing, and got struck. Both men inside killed instantly, one flung from the vehicle. From our coach car, three cars or so back from the engine, we could see his body lying on the grass.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2002 02:02 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That was the time that someone on the train kept saying, "I know first aid if it's any help"?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 29 September 2002 02:50 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Was it a childhood ambition of yours to work on the trains?

Certainly not. I fell into it because of my need to work outside. It's a great job.

A lot of people LOVE trains. They come out with cameras and watch us for hours going back and forth - back and forth. One thing I find really interesting is the amount of autistic people (all male - is autism a primarily male affliction?) who adore trains. Luckily they seem to have a great respect for them and stay BEHIND the fence.


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 29 September 2002 02:53 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
That was the time that someone on the train kept saying, "I know first aid if it's any help"?

Yup. I decided at this point that people say the oddest things under stress, or when freaked out.

The conductors went and covered the man's body with blankets, but not before they'd covered it with green plastic garbage bags.

[ September 29, 2002: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 29 September 2002 03:04 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
One thing I find really interesting is the amount of autistic people (all male - is autism a primarily male affliction?) who adore trains.

I don't think autism is a particularly male affliction, but I'm pretty sure train-spotting is.

There was a great New Yorker piece awhile back about a man in New York, in his 30s or so, who'd been jailed for impersonating a subway driver or something. He has Asberger's Syndrome, the form of autism where people are more functional than those unfortunate kids who have trouble learning language, tend to scream and bang their heads, etc. (which I think is called Kallman's).

Anyhow, since he was 12 or something he was obsessed with the New York subway system. Knew absolutely everything about it. Would often put on a hard hat, vest etc. and do "safety inspections," talk to the guys, etc. They got to know and like him. Eventually he learned how to drive trains. At this point he started getting arrested.

Subway employees testified in his defence, saying they thought he was better-prepared and more safety-conscious than some of their colleagues; and that he'd never "worked" in the subway with malicious intent, or to make money. His lawyers tried to show that he wasn't criminally responsible, or at least to get him a reduced sentence. But the judge wouldn't go for it.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 29 September 2002 03:29 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just did a bit of research. Autism (a spectrum disorder apparently encompassing the afflictions you mentioned above, lance) affects four times more boys than girls. One common symptom is their tendency to become obsessed by a single item, trains and maps most commonly.

When I see them (there are three or four common spectators who are obviously autistic) they all make the same movements, waving their hands around their ears, or rocking violently against the fence - which looks painful. Some respond to my waves, some do not.

Since the affliction affects people to differing degrees, I wonder if some of the more "normal" male spectators aren't mildly autistic. It doesn't seem all that normal to me to watch a train crew for hours, taking a gazillion photographs.

Sorry for the drift. It's just one of many interesting things I've experienced in my work.


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 September 2002 04:02 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What exactly do you do on trains? Are you the driver? Cause, like, that's really cool. You'd be my son's hero.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 29 September 2002 04:16 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I just did a bit of research. Autism (a spectrum disorder apparently encompassing the afflictions you mentioned above, lance) affects four times more boys than girls.

Interesting. Thank you. I was maybe a little misled by the fact that a friend's young daughter has been diagnosed with "autistic spectrum disorder."

quote:
Since the affliction affects people to differing degrees, I wonder if some of the more "normal" male spectators aren't mildly autistic. It doesn't seem all that normal to me to watch a train crew for hours, taking a gazillion photographs.

It wouldn't surprise me. English train-spotters are practically a byword for shyness, lack of social skills etc., all of which go along with mild autism.

Oliver Sacks, the neurologist, has written a lot about autism. One boy, for example, was obsessed by old buildings, to the point of spending most of his time making very detailed, and beautiful, drawings of them. Another man just sculpts bulls, very accurately -- despite having been blind from birth. (Evidently he once held a sculpture of a bull and fixated on it).

Some have speculated that the kind of scientists, say, who go in for, and thrive at, very detail-obsessive work are autistic in one sense or another. Charles Darwin, for example, had been a poor student in his youth, but in his voyages with the Beagle and other researches he collected observations in astonishing numbers and detail. After he published, I think, The Descent of Man he spent the rest of his life studying earthworms. Much of what we know about earthworms today -- how vitally important they are to the soil, for example, because of the amount of it they turn over annually -- comes from his work.

Apparently I have the opposite of autism -- digression disorder.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 30 September 2002 12:46 AM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What exactly do you do on trains? Are you the driver?
Nah, Michelle. I am WAY more important than the driver. I tell him where to go, arrange with the powers that be for my train to get from point A to B, line switches, organize trains in a yard, (take them apart and put them together) and deliver or pick up cars at industries. That's just for a start! I am what they call a switch-foreman/conductor.

There are a lot of remote control engines these days so eventually I may be driving the train using a little black box, AND doing all of the other work too.


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 30 September 2002 02:10 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's a guy at work here-- I should check, he might be on shift this week-- who is a train spotter. He gave me a rundown one night on train numbers, and what they mean. Blast my brain, I've forgotten them now.

He has a hip mounted scanner, and if he has time he'll go out outside here and listen to the dispatch for the CN mainline that runs behind the plant.

He also gave me a run down on the signal lights behind the plant too, so I have a rough idea what they mean.

One night a train came through, and he made a little Mpeg of it with a digital camera. There must be a place on line where train spotters share these things.

Is he anti-social? He gets along okay with everyone in the plant. But I did overhear him refer to the London dispatcher as a "bitch". That's just a bit wierd.

When I was a kid, the area of London I grew up in was on the south east edge of the city, Glen Cairn Woods, south of Commissioners road. I used to hear the locomotives throb up the incline from the Commissioners road crossing, through the woods, and past the two hump backed bridges over Pond Mills Road. I used to think that was really neat.

That's the London/Port Stanely line, which in fact isn't through to Port Stanely anymore, but will be shortly. It serves as connection to the CN yards and St. Thomas' industrial section.

The L&PS is in fact one of Canada's oldest rail lines. As a kid, I saw "1914" stamped on the rails, and took that to be the year it was built. But in fact, some reading on line informed me that this was when the line was extensively rebuilt.

Originally, the line was put through in 1855.

I love thread drift.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 30 September 2002 07:17 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
News Story about the level crossing I mentioned earlier.
From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 30 September 2002 09:34 AM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Before I began working on the railroad I never noticed how they really surround us. And when I consider the size of the operations it just boggles my mind.

One interesting story I heard through an american historian: Abe Lincoln needed to keep the railroads running during the civil war so he took them over and set them up like the military with a virtually identical chain of command. Since railroads were the first corporations each company after modeled itself after them, and it is still the model of business today.


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 30 September 2002 11:43 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
That's the London/Port Stanely line, which in fact isn't through to Port Stanely anymore, but will be shortly. It serves as connection to the CN yards and St. Thomas' industrial section.

Next time I'm back in Ontario I want to find out something more about the old K & P line -- Kingston and Pembroke, or "Kick and Push," as it was nicknamed. I think it had something to do with moving lumber to Kingston, though absent a St. Lawrence Seaway (I think it was built around 1900) I don't know what kind of sense that would have made. Perhaps that's why, if I remember right, it wasn't completed.

(Good Lord, I'm sounding like a train-spotter myself. I'm not, I assure you, I'm... I'm... a Canadian history buff, yeah, that's it.)

I only learned about it because we used part of the long-abandoned line to hike to a camping spot when I was in Scouts, age 11 or so. This was also when I learned that no matter what height you are, railroad ties are spaced just exactly wrong to walk on, whether you try to step on every tie, or every other tie. Ingenious, that.

quote:
One mainline in the lower mainland runs right between a major tourist street and the beach beyond it.

This would the Burlington Northern line through White Rock, yes? A few years ago I worked on a couple of drill jobs right across the road. I was astonished by peoples' casual attitude toward the tracks.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 30 September 2002 12:24 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just to note: while I haven't (yet) experienced the U.S. bus system, I have read that the U.S. system is considered, say, the "rooming house" of transportation down there. I use 'lance's comments to counter lagetta's, but I'm sure that Stateside, buses aren't exactly considered decent transportation. No self-respecting soccer-mom would put their kid on a bus.

Up here, I find, is that while few people consider the bus as transportation, there isn't that same class biased against it. Although. I could be wrong.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 30 September 2002 12:57 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like to make the joke (taken from MAD Magazine) that Amtrak has a quota of derailing one train per year. Gallows humor, I know, but it points up the chronic underfunding they struggle with.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 30 September 2002 01:28 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Doc, perhaps even more tragic in this respect is the dangerous state of the railways in Britain, since Maggie took an axe to them - and Toady is doing sweet f-all to remedy the situation.

I'm not a trainspotter, but a bit of a train buff, yeah, and love travelling in Europe because of the trains. Has anyone got good maps and timetables for European trains? I have to travel between Florence and Amsterdam (poor me)! (No, I can't afford the trip - if all works out, it is a conference that is paying for my trip, in exchange for working as an interpretation slave...)

By the way, we have to find Michelle a scholarship to do a summer course in Germany (or Austria, or Switzerland...).


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 30 September 2002 05:58 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Next time I'm back in Ontario I want to find out something more about the old K & P line -- Kingston and Pembroke, or "Kick and Push," as it was nicknamed.

The nickname for L&PS was "Lean Push and Shove".

Having looked at the section of track that runs through the Westminister Ponds/Glen Cairn Woods/Pond Mills stretch through binoculars, the foreshortened field of vision shows you why. The tracks dip and climb and rails that appear ram rod straight to the naked eye look like speghetti in binoculars.

There's probably a site on line dedicated to your Kingston and Pembroke line, 'lance.

I've found out some neat stuff about my own neighborhood from on line sites. Not just about the L&PS, but also about the Pond Mills area. I never thought of the cemetary as being that old, but the first burial there took place in 1825.

Not in anyway old by European standards, but by Ontario standards, surprisingly old.

I'm currently on a quest to determine what the Pond Mills area looked like before the L&PS was punched through there. From looking at the land, and from other clues, it's my hypothesis that a rather large pond, perhaps as big as or bigger than the ones at Pond Mills was drained to facillitate the line.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 30 September 2002 06:05 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
There's probably a site on line dedicated to your Kingston and Pembroke line, 'lance.

Well, dip me in creosote and roll me in ballast. So there is.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 30 September 2002 06:22 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, and a little tip from an old cross tie walker.

Don't look at the ties.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Flowers By Irene
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posted 01 October 2002 10:10 AM      Profile for Flowers By Irene     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The new overpass they're thinking of putting in at Hale & Trafalgar is being opposed by many of the neighbourhood residents. A few came by my house last week with a petition to stop it signed by a couple hundred people. (I didn't sign, I'm undecided on the issue)
They are afraid that the overpass will make the intersection too convenient and drastically increase traffic flow.

Well, duh. Thats why people in the area have been begging for the overpass for years now, because with the volume of rail traffic its too inconvenient for residents.

No matter what the city decides, however, they will screw it up, I'm sure. They thought about installing the overpass about six or eight years ago, but decided against it because it would be too expensive. Now the price has almost doubled, so they're thinking of waiting for another five years to see if the cost will double again.


From: "To ignore the facts, does not change the facts." -- Andy Rooney | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 01 October 2002 10:34 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Up here, I find, is that while few people consider the bus as transportation, there isn't that same class biased against it. Although. I could be wrong.

Come to think of it, I've come across that here and there in American novels and stuff. I've never understood it, but I guess it probably is just a class prejudice thing.

All I know is that the return bus for me to go to Toronto costs about $50, and the train costs about a hundred. So I'll choose the bus every time. The bus is safe, pleasant if you take it during a non-peak time, because you usually get a double seat to yourself that way. I've never, ever had a problem at the station once arriving.

Lagatta, I could do a semester or a summer course in Japan, Australia, or in a castle in England owned by Queen's if I applied for it. There are several other countries I could study in as well. But I can't leave the country with my son - my separation agreement STILL isn't hammered out yet, and I'm not willing to leave him for a couple of months at a time. Also, I doubt his father would want me to take him away for a couple of months. I have half-and-half custody of him right now.

I'm hoping to travel to Europe with him when he's a little older and I'm out of school.

If I were single with no dependents, I would jump at the chance to study overseas, of course!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 01 October 2002 02:31 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Toronto bus depot isn't a good place for a young girl to be. It's full of predators, pimps, drug pushers, flashers, etc. Young, vulnerable-looking boys and girls are their target, so if you don't fall into that category, you probably wouldn't notice the really seedy activity. I work across the street from it, and I've seen alot of weird shit there.

I've flown, driven, walked, cycled, taken the bus, hitchiked and been driven all over the place, but my favourite mode of transport, by far, is the train. Someday I hope to be able to travel across Canada by train, hopefully with someone who shares my enthusiasm.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 01 October 2002 03:18 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Someday I hope to be able to travel across Canada by train, hopefully with someone who shares my enthusiasm.

Do it. An unforgettable experience, VIA Rail or no VIA Rail.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 01 October 2002 08:41 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's a long way without being able to drink anything, Rebecca.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 01 October 2002 08:52 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
VIA serves beer and an assortment of "affordable snacks and beverages". They also serve sandwiches that, I swear, have been stolen from the local Mac's Milk (the Mac's Milk attendant looks the other way, of course, since the sandwiches were at their expiry date).
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 01 October 2002 08:52 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This thread reminds me of a mainline coming into a yard; it switches off into all kinds of neat sidings.

quote:
The new overpass they're thinking of putting in at Hale & Trafalgar is being opposed by many of the neighbourhood residents.

I sympathize with residents on Hale. Not only is it busy, but nutbars drive way too fast on it.

I'm not sure how the City Engineers are going to mishandle the design of the overpass. With Trafalgar cutting across at that wierd angle, I have some trepidations that they'll come up with something workable.

The thing that EVERYONE in London is missing is that Hale street shouldn't be busy at all. It's only busy because people use it to dodge the bottle neck at Highbury and Bridges.

Flowers, if you vote for me in my bid to become "Mayor Dictator for Life" of London, I'll fix all that, promise.

The problem is that London's main arteries don't function as main arteries. The City Engineers put access to business as top priority in design; the current philosophy is to "calm" traffic by slowing it down with perniciously timed lights, and safety comes second to all that.

There are neighborhoods all over town, Flowers that suffer overflow traffic at rush hour because the dim wits down at city hall can't design a main arterial road properly.

And the Hale neighborhood is on that list.

*paid for the by the "Elect Tommy Paine Mayor Dictator for Life" campaign.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 01 October 2002 10:09 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
VIA serves beer and an assortment of "affordable snacks and beverages". They also serve sandwiches that, I swear, have been stolen from the local Mac's Milk (the Mac's Milk attendant looks the other way, of course, since the sandwiches were at their expiry date).

True, but the hot breakfasts on the Canadian -- all I could afford to buy on my cross-Canada trek, otherwise I survived on a big lunch cooler full of bread, cheese etc. -- are good and cheap. Or were in '93, anyhow.

quote:
There are neighborhoods all over town, Flowers that suffer overflow traffic at rush hour because the dim wits down at city hall can't design a main arterial road properly.

Hmmm. A curious point of resemblance -- perhaps the only one -- between London and Vancouver.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 01 October 2002 11:12 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1993… wasn't that a year near VIA's funding peak?

I want to say that a can of Coke on VIA was, like, $1.50, but I'm not all that sure and… hot food? Mmm.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 30 July 2008 07:40 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
E-mailed to Via's Customer Relations Department:
quote:
I am writing to inquire as to a larger problem, demonstrated by the current CN freight derailment near Kingston.

If passenger rail was a priority in Canada, Via Rail would have authority to pre-empt use of the CP tracks to run your trains around the CN freight derailment.

I assume Via Rail does not have such authority. Have you ever requested it? If not, why not? If so, what was the government's response?

We'll see what response I get.

(By the way, this old 2002 thread seemed to be the right topic. But why is it under international politics? Should be Canadian politics, I think.)


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged

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