Other than that I think you've now brought back enough painful memories for one day don't cha think?

[ 11 March 2004: Message edited by: kuba ]

When it comes to PhD committees, the only thing people worry about is making sure that the external examiner isn't known to be completely opposed to the approach taken in the thesis.

But if you can't find 2 or 3 people who can work with your thesis supervisor in a professional manner that puts your interests first, you have to start asking questions, such as:

You just have to choose the right discipline and the right school.

The gains are worth it. Imagine being paid a very decent living *and* having the liberty and time to pursue whatever ideas you think interesting. I consider myself extremely fortunate.

As I said, BE CAREFUL!

[ 11 March 2004: Message edited by: Performance Anxiety ]

Edited to add:

The fact that you've heard of him does not make him a 'top' economist - his name meant nothing to me. And after looking through his CV, there's nothing there that is obviously ideologically-driven.

[ 11 March 2004: Message edited by: Oliver Cromwell ]

Furthermore, the student's theatre is highly activist, often against economic structures like the WTO, something the Dean obviously didn't appreciate. It is really a fight between extremes of left and right, between art and economics, and between cesorship and freedom.

Were the Dean from a more enlightened field such as Liberal Arts, Philosophy, or Political Science I imagine he might have actually sought the student's opinion, who hadn't even been at the University for well over a year before this situation occurred. Labelling someone as "mentally unstable" from across the planet (the student was in Ireland when this happened) with nothing to back it up but a collection of documents collected off the internet (which were presented by bumbling theatre professors) is disturbing. Rumour-mills should not override human rights - ever.

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The fact that you've heard of him does not make him a 'top' economist - his name meant nothing to me. And after looking through his CV, there's nothing there that is obviously ideologically-driven.

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OC - he's in the oil and gas business and was the mentor to both Harper and Klein. He also has anti-Quebec biases, which he has no shame in admitting in right-wing media:

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Robert Mansell, the man who has done more than anyone to demonstrate how much more Alberta pays into Canada than it gets back, says he does not extrapolate any political opinions from his data. But the University of Calgary economics professor is passionate in his denunciation of the attempt to equate Alberta with Quebec. "Studies have consistently shown that if Canada broke up, Alberta would gain and Quebec would lose," he points out. (According to Statistics Canada, Quebec got $5.9 billion more than it paid out in 1998, a per capita benefit of $797. Other winners were Saskatchewan ($1,657 per capita), Manitoba ($2,288), New Brunswick ($3,607), Nova Scotia ($4,382), Prince Edward Island ($4,774) and Newfoundland ($5,982). Other losers were British Columbia (-$564) and Ontario (-$1,559).)

"Every place where there's the possibility of rigging [the system] so you get as much out of Alberta on a net basis as you can, that's what Ottawa does," Prof. Mansell says. "Employment Insurance takes a massive amount out of Alberta. In discretionary federal spending Alberta (and B.C.) get screwed. When they reduced the tax for large corporations everybody got the benefit except the energy sector--Alberta is getting screwed again. How is it that Ontario has a higher per capita income and four times the population, yet Alberta ends up paying far more?"

To the argument that the current have-not eastern provinces bailed out the West during the 1930s, Prof. Mansell responds, "Yeah, right. Prior to the 1960s there were very few of these federal transfers. So what are they talking about? Some charity that may have happened, with no records, during the Depression? That's very nice, but how does it compare with the almost $200 billion in net outflows [from Alberta] over the last 30 years?"

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Indeed, economists know virtually nothing about theatre - which is why Mansell followed the advice and counsel of the Department of Drama.

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I'll agree that economists know very little about theatre, but as the Dean he had a responsibility to uphold the university's principles of conduct - which means ensuring a positive learning environment for students, and respecting Canadian law and enshrined human rights.

Following advice to violate human rights is reprehensible - even if that advice comes from theatre teachers. A good Dean would have investigated both sides of the story before taking action.

[ 11 March 2004: Message edited by: Oliver Cromwell ]

In the arts, especially in extremely conservative places like Calgary, sometimes it is necessary to stir it up a little. The choice facing the student was to direct pre-approved traditional theatre (and maybe go on to become a Regional Theatre artistic director, who could kiss corporate ass for funding), or to push the boundaries and engage in experimental and activist approaches to the field. I think he made the right choice, despite the negative consequences.

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Originally posted by Oliver Cromwell:
Or how about DON'T TRY TO MAKE YOUR DEPARTMENT A LIVING HELL.

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Oh my, Oliver. As a relative newbie here, you haven't made the acquaintence of our resident theatrician. You will never win this argument. Donovan and his friends can and will argue forever and ever about this case. They live to argue about their treatment at the hands of this drama department.

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Like I said, if you want to push the boundaries, be prepared to pay the price.

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Or not - my partner ended up with his M.A. without having to defend, as the only person who showed up was his advisor!

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You will never win this argument.

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The choice facing the student was to direct pre-approved traditional theatre

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Or not - my partner ended up with his M.A. without having to defend, as the only person who showed up was his advisor!

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1) be realistic. Remember it's a MASTER'S thesis. A lot of people pick topics that are way too big, then get bogged down and find it difficult to finish because they can't possibly cover everything within the confines of an MA thesis. I've seen some MA theses that really should have been PhD dissertation topics.

2) if you find you have bitten off more than you can chew, work with your advisor on refining your topic to make it more achievable

3) don't expect a lot from your supervisor. Of course, some people luck into great mentors, but most of the time their approach is either 1) impossible expectations and nitpickiness or 2) benign neglect. Develop a coping strategy appropriate for the type you get.

[ 12 March 2004: Message edited by: Marc ]

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I'm wondering if any babbers have any advice or experiences to share that might help me in this new journey on which I am about to embark.

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Don't ask for the truth if you can't handle "hijacking". What shall I say? OK; how 'bout this:

"Best of luck in your academic pursuits! Work hard, follow the Old Boys Club, and you'll be AOK."

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Originally posted by Alix:
It was fairly mind-boggling.

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In the end, after that MA and damn near a PhD I can say that I haven't yet seen or heard of an actual instance of faculty members taking their ideological (or personal) differences out on a candidate. Perhaps I'm naive, but I don't believe anyone is going to give a student a hard time just to make a point to their colleagues.

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You're naive.

And I will seek out and talk to some people my prof has advised in the past, and before I officially ask anyone else to sit on my committee. I've worked with him in the past, and he's been good, but a year of biweekly sessions versus a few meetings during a semester are apples and codfish.

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Originally posted by Michelle:

Alix, was this at Queen's?

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Hm. Perhaps I AM the bitterest person in the world!

[ 15 March 2004: Message edited by: vickyinottawa ]