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Author
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Topic: respect respectful?
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writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513
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posted 25 September 2002 01:52 PM
Aretha Franklin belting out "Respect." It's fabulous. It's feminist. Or is it? Take a look at the lyrics. Let's all of us pro-feminist-mandated, more-women-than-men discuss. quote:
What you want (hooo) baby I got it
What you need (hooo) you know I got it
(Hooo) all I'm asking (hooo) is for a little respect
(Just a little bit) when you come home
(Just a little bit) hey baby (Just little bit)
When you come home (Just a Little Bit) MisterI ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone
I ain't gonna do you wrong 'cause I don't wanna
All I'm asking is for a little respect when you come home
(Just a Little Bit) Baby (Just a little bit )
When you come home (Just a little Bit) Yeah I'm about to give you all my money
And all I'm asking in return honey
Is to give me my profits when you get home
(Justa Justa Justa) Yeah baby when you get home ( Just a little Bit ) Yeah (Just a little bit ) Hooo your kisses sweeter than honey and guess what so is my money
All I want you to do for me is give it to me when you get home
(Re re re re spect) Yeah baby whip it to me
(Just a little bit) when you get home now
(Just a little bit) R-E-S-P-E-C-T find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T take out the TCP ohhhh
(Sock it to me,etc.) A little respect oh yeah (Just a little bit)
A little respect (Just a little Bit)
Take all my money and give me some satisfying sex in return? Respect? I take out the TCP and I get R-E-S-E. Any theories? [ September 25, 2002: Message edited by: writer ]
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 25 September 2002 02:47 PM
quote:
Doesn't Aretha also belt out "Freedom - freedom - freedom!" in this song?
That is in "Think." So writer is thinking of taking Aretha away from me. This may complicate the engagement ...  My protest: But the raunchiness is to be considered too. For us naives back in the C20, North American pop music only got raunchy every once in a while, cyclically, maybe -- and in and of itself, that quality could feel liberating. To a nice gril from the prairies, for instance, belting along with Aretha -- or Bessie Smith -- was so satisfyingly shocking. Otis, too. God, but his version of "Try a Little Tenderness" still blows me away. Which, of course, brings us to the old morning-after question of the 70s: was the 60s version of sexual liberation all that liberating after all?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513
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posted 25 September 2002 02:53 PM
quote:
R-E-S-P-E-C-T take out the TCP ohhhh
"take out the TCP" short for "take out the trash can please"? skdadl, I wish to take nothing away. Only add ooey gooey layers on top. Mmmmm. [ September 25, 2002: Message edited by: writer ]
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 25 September 2002 03:00 PM
quote:
RESE. I haven't the faintest.
Rearranged in alphabetical order, this is EERS. With the E's turned on their sides -- turned 90 degrees clockwise, as you'd do, say, with a doorknob when coming into the house -- we have MMRS. Shift the R and S two positions along in the alphabet -- because there are two people in the song, yes? -- and we have MMTU. Which give the initials of Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin -- often translated as "you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting," but literally meaning "it has been counted and counted, weighed and divided." So much for the money and profits, maybe?
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 25 September 2002 03:18 PM
Does this explain why Elvis got so royally screwed by his hangers-on? quote:
LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY AT THE YANKEEs
Well, geez, SuperGimp. Northerners we may be (though not in the USian sense), non-Southerners, whatever. But we're no more Yankees than you. Please! Just a little respect! Oh, right. Lyrics. Seriously? There's a British music critic, Simon Frith, who said something like "the meaning of the song doesn't come from the lyrics, instead the meaning of the lyrics comes from the song." A little obscure, maybe, but I take him to mean that lyrics are kind of secondary -- at least, with a great performance. I flip back and forth on this -- sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. But with Aretha Franklin, I'd say most of the "feminist" meaning of the song is contained in that amazing voice and performance. Like skdadl says, satisfyingly shocking.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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adlib
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2890
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posted 26 September 2002 01:09 AM
^^^ 'lance's post had me ROFL!! quote:
Ooooh. Let's do "Under My Thumb" by the Stones.
Can I bring up some other songs that are way worse? Or should we just start a horribly-misogynist-song-you-can't-help-singing-to thread?When I was being stalked a couple of years ago, I couldn't help noticing how many "love" songs sounded like stalker soundtracks. The Police-
"Oh can't you see, you belong to me..." "Every breath you take, every move you make, every single day, every word you say, I'll be watching you" "Since you're gone, I've been lost without a trace. I look around I can only see your face..." Almost the exact same words were said by the man who stalked me.
From: Turtle Island ;) | Registered: Jul 2002
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writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513
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posted 26 September 2002 10:17 AM
My understanding is that the Police song was meant to be disturbing. Sting was horrified to learn that folks were using "Every Breath You Take" for their weddings and such, thinking it was romantic. This is why he wrote:...
If you want to keep something precious
You got to lock it up and throw away the key
If you want to hold onto your possession
Don't even think about me If you love somebody,
set them free. [ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: writer ]
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 26 September 2002 10:42 AM
Yeah, I always thought it was weird that the song was thought to be romantic. I figured that the creepy chord progressions were hint enough that the song was meant to be strange, not loving.Really says something about our society, though, doesn't it, that the song is assumed to be romantic. Don't get me started on Eagles' songs. They make me nuts, mostly because I love to sing along with them, and I really like them. But their armchair psychologizing of the female psyche just really drives me crazy. "Desperado, you ain't gettin no younger
Your pain and your hunger are driving you on
And freedom, oh freedom, that's just some people talkin,
Your prison is walkin through this world all alone." and "You'd better let somebody love you before it's too late." Yeah right. In other words, girlies, you KNOW you need a man in your life to be complete. You know freedom is nothing. And you'd better grab the first man who comes along, because who knows, soon your face will be all wrinkled and then it will be Too Late. ARGH! And yet I love the melody and the song. Or how about "Lyin' Eyes"? ARGH ARGH ARGH! "City girls, they seem to find out early
How to open doors with just a smile
A rich old man, and she won't have to worry
She'll dress up all in lace and go in style." Yeah, that's what adultery always comes down to when a woman does it - it's done by a schemer who just married for money. What EVER. That is one of the nastiest songs about women I've heard. Well, excepting some of the mysogynist rap stuff that's out there, but I'm not really familiar with that genre since I don't listen to it much.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 26 September 2002 11:51 AM
quote:
Yeah, I always thought it was weird that the song was thought to be romantic. I figured that the creepy chord progressions were hint enough that the song was meant to be strange, not loving.
I didn't find the chord progressions creepy at all. In fact, I thought Sting's "shock" at how people took the song showed a surprising lack of self-consciousness. Well, maybe not so surprising. He wrote a smooth, catchy, radio-friendly song -- which happened also to sell in the millions -- but in which the music was at total odds with the lyrics. It sort of proved Simon Frith's point about a song's meaning, often, being contained more in the music than in the lyrics. It's not surprising people took it as a romantic song. They were led and encouraged to. I suppose it's tough for a pop star to admit, or learn, that people don't listen much to lyrics, or attend much to their meaning. But so it proved with "Every Breath You Take."
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 26 September 2002 12:04 PM
I disagree. His chord progressions were strange. Look at that point where he sings, "Oh can't you see...you belong to me". I know there were major chords in it, but there was definite tension in the music that was sustained through most of the piece.There was also his voice being kind of breathy and husky, and the repetitive bass note sounded rather obsessive. But you're right, it did have a pop feel to it. And the end of the song could have been better too, where they keep repeating "every breath you take every move you make, every vow you break...I'll be watching you..." until fade-out - well, I think that's too resolved at the end, making it a bit too bright. It keeps resolving to the major chord. I think it would have been more in keeping with the mood of the song if it had kept resolving to that the relative minor instead of the major, the way it does at the end of the first line of the song. Way too many resolutions to bright major chords. But I still think that the music was obsessive enough, and had enough unexpected modulations to the minor to give a creepier feel.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 26 September 2002 12:12 PM
quote:
I think it would have been more in keeping with the mood of the song if it had kept resolving to that the relative minor instead of the major, the way it does at the end of the first line of the song.
Perhaps you're right. Still, I can't help but feel that the mood of a song, and the mood of lyrics, can be two very different things. Another example that springs to mind is a hit from a few years back, "Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?" I can't recall the artist's name offhand, but she's said in at least one interview that it's meant sarcastically or ironically -- she's really sneering at cowboy types who "go have a beer" while their wives do all the housework. Perhaps. But the music, I thought, had a completely different "meaning," sad and wistful. Of course, the contrast could well have been deliberate, which would be a clever way of working a more-or-less feminist message into a mainstream pop song. It's been done before. But artists who work this way should expect to be misunderstood by the greater part of the music-buying public. Edited to add: And seeing that the 'boycount' is high again (hmmm.... boycount... boycott... coincidence?), I'll jest set back here 'n' listen awhile. [ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: 'lance ]
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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adlib
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2890
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posted 26 September 2002 02:12 PM
I just thought of some other songs that piss me off...Girl, you'll be woman soon,
So come take my hand,
Girl, you'll be a woman soon,
Soon, you'll need a man... And then there's the date-rape tune: I'm driving in my car,
I turn on the radio,
I try to move in closer,
You say 'No',
You say you don't like it,
But I know you're a liar,
'Cause when we kiss, mmmmm,
Fire... BTW, I'm glad to hear that Sting's intention was not to have that song be romantic, but I agree that it's irresponsible to be that ambiguous. lagatta- I'm not trying to evalute songs based on whether they're "pc" or whatever. I'm just talking about songs that give me the creeps or piss me off, but are sometimes really catchy.
From: Turtle Island ;) | Registered: Jul 2002
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 26 September 2002 02:27 PM
Ad lib, I never listened to the words of that last song you quoted before. Geez.As for songs that I find incredibly catchy and love, but are so misogynist they hurt, how about: "Before I had a baby
I didn't care anyway
I thought about the back door
I didn't know what to say But once I got a baby
I tried every way
She didn't wanna do it
But she did anyway! Oh baby please don't refuse
You know you got nothing to lose!" But darn I love the beat in that song. I wish the words were different.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 26 September 2002 02:43 PM
Oh, well, there's a certain point past which there's no sense in writing out lyrics. After all, the music from the 50's and early 60's where incredibly annoying.But heck, why not? Here's one: When people ask of me,
What do you want to be
Now that you're not a kid anymore
(background male singers: You're not a kid anymore!) I know just what to say,
I answer right away.
There's just one thing that I'm wishing for: I wanna be Bobby's girl!
I wanna be Bobby's girl!
That's the most important thing to me.
And if I was Bobby's girl,
If I was Bobby's girl,
What a faithful, thankful girl I'd be! Each night I sit at home
Hoping that he will phone
But I know Bobby has someone else
Still in my heart I pray
There soon will come the day
That I will have him all to myself... I wanna be Bobby's girl!
I wanna be Bobby's girl!
That's the most important thing to me...
And if I was Bobby's girl,
If I was Bobby's girl,
What a faithful, thankful girl I'd be!
What a faithful, thankful girl I'd be!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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singh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3081
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posted 26 September 2002 05:26 PM
Brimstone and Treacle. Yes, it's weird. For awhile I thought Sting was going to inherit the mantle of "Creepy-Brit-Actor", but then Jeremy Irons swooped in and is seeming to hang on for dear life.On the topic of offensive lyrics, can it get any worse than this missive from Mssrs. Richards and Jagger: The Rolling Stones
Brown Sugar
Gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields
Sold in the market down in New Orleans
Scarred old slaver knows he's doing alright
Hear him whip the women just around midnight
Brown sugar how come you taste so good
Brown sugar just like a young girl should- ah hum oh..
Woo! Drums beating, cold English blood runs hot
Lady of the house wonderin' where it's gonna stop
House boy knows that he's doing alright
You shoulda heard him just around midnight Brown sugar how come you taste so good, now?
Brown sugar just like a young girl should, now - yeah! Ah, get it on brown sugar, how come you taste so good, babe?
Ah, got me feelin' now for brown sugar, just like a black girl should yeah Now I bet your mama was a tent show queen
And all here boyfriends were sweet sixteen
I'm no schoolboy but I know what I like
You shoulda heard me just around midnight Brown sugar how come you taste so good, babe?
Ah, brown sugar just like a young girl should, yeah I said yeah, yeah, yeah, woo!
How come you...how come you taste so good?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, woo!
Just like a...just like a black girl should
Yeah, yeah, yeah, woo!
[ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: singh ]
From: victoria | Registered: Sep 2002
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 26 September 2002 05:45 PM
quote:
BTW, I'm glad to hear that Sting's intention was not to have that song be romantic, but I agree that it's irresponsible to be that ambiguous.
I don't think he was all that ambiguous. He's an artist who likes to explore the dark side, and this was just that -- an exploration of obsession rather than love, and was frankly surprised that people would see "love" in it rather than sickness. Interesting, too, to put the idea in the context of a smooth, melodic piece that is almost hypnotic... I like the song, not because it is "romantic", but because it's so evocative of the character on a couple of levels. Personally, I think the audience has to be held largely responsible for their reading of a song, painting, film, etc. An artist can put out a message, but people usually find a way to twist it around to mean what they'd prefer it to.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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SuperGimp
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3090
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posted 26 September 2002 05:58 PM
WARNING--EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE LYRICS AHEAD.Kim Look at daddy's baby girl
That's daddy baby
Little sleepy head
Yesterday I changed your diaper
Wiped you and powdered you.
How did you get so big?
Can't believe it now you're two
Baby you're so precious
Daddy's so proud of you Sit down bitch
If you move again I'll beat the shit out of you (Kim: Okay)
Don't make me wake this baby
She don't need to see what I'm about to do
Quit crying bitch, why do you always make me shout at you?
How could you?
Just leave me and love him out the blue
Oh, what's a matter Kim?
Am I too loud for you?
Too bad bitch, you're gonna finally hear me out this time
At first, I'm like all right
You wanna throw me out? That's fine!
But not for him to take my place, are you out you're mind?
This couch, this TV, this whole house is mine!
How could you let him sleep in our bed?
Look at Kim
Look at your husband now!
(Kim: No!)
I said look at him!
He ain't so hot now is he?
Little punk!
(Kim: Why are you doing this?)
Shut the fuck up!
(Kim: You're drunk! You're never going to get away at this!)
You think I give a fuck!
Come on we're going for a ride bitch
(Kim: No!)
Sit up front
(Kim: Well I can't just leave Haley alone, what if she wakes up?)
We'll be right back
Well I will--you'll be in the trunk So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't wanna go on
Living in this world without you You really fucked me Kim
You really did a number on me
Never knew me cheating on you would come back to haunt me
But we was kids then Kim, I was only 18
That was years ago
I thought we wiped the slate clean
That's fucked up!
(Kim: I love you!)
Oh God my brain is racing
(Kim: I love you!)
What are you doing?
Change the station, I hate this song!
Does this look like a big joke?
(Kim: No!)
There's a four year old boy lyin' dead with a slit throat
In your living room, ha-ha
What you think I'm kiddin' you?
You loved him didn't you?
(Kim: No!)
Bullshit you bitch don't fucking lie to me
What the fuck's this guy's problem on the side of me?
Fuck you asshole, yeah bite me
Kim, KIM!
Why don't you like me?
You think I'm ugly don't you
(Kim: It's not that!)
No you think I'm ugly
(Kim: Baby)
Get the fuck away from me, don't touch me
I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!
I SWEAR TO GOD I HATE YOU
OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU
How the fuck could you do this to me?
(Kim: Sorry!)
How the fuck could you do this to me? So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't wanna go on
Living in this world without you Come on get out
(Kim: I can't I'm scared)
I said get out bitch!
(Kim: Let go of my hair, please don't do this, baby!)
(Kim: Please I love you, look we can just take Haley and leave?)
Fuck you, you did this to us
You did it, it's your fault
Oh my God I'm crackin' up
(Kim: Get a grip Marshall!)
Hey remember the time we went to Brian's party?
And you were like so drunk that you threw up all over Archie
That was funny wasn't it?
(Kim: Yes!)
That was funny wasn't it?
(Kim: Yes!)
See it all makes sense, doesn't it?
You and your husband have a fight
One of you tries to grab a knife
And during the struggle he accidentally gets his Adam's apple sliced
(Kim: No!)
And while this is goin' on
His son just woke up and he just walks in
She panics and he gets his throat cut
(Kim: Oh my God!)
So now they both dead and you slash your own throat
So now it's double homicide and suicide with no note
I should have known better when you started to act weird
We could've...HEY! Where you going? Get back here!
You can't run from me Kim
It's just us, nobody else!
You're only making this harder on yourself
Ha! Ha! Got'cha!
(Kim: Screams)
Ha! Go ahead yell!
Here I'll scream with you!
AH SOMEBODY HELP!
Don't you get it bitch, no one can hear you?
Now shut the fuck up and get what's comin to you
You were supposed to love me
{Kim choking}
NOW BLEED! BITCH BLEED!
BLEED! BITCH BLEED! BLEED! So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't wanna go on
Living in this world without you EMINEM (NOTE: Eminem's ex-wife is named Kim, and their daughter Haley.)
From: Dixie-USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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animal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1890
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posted 27 September 2002 01:19 AM
Hee hee, this is fun . . . quote:
Girls - to do the dishes
Girls - to clean up my room
Girls - to do the laundry
Girls - and in the bathroom
Girls - that's all I really want is girls
Two at a time - I want girls
With new wave hairdos - I want girls
I ought to whip out my - girls, girls, girls, girls, girls!
Ahhh, the Beastie Boys. Whenever a friend of mine hears this song in a bar, she belts it out as "Goats" . . . . "Goats to do the dishes! Goats to clean up my room! Goats to do the laundry!"  Much better than bitching about it, in my opinion, though people do tend to look at us rather strangely!
From: the boreal forest | Registered: Nov 2001
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disobedient
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2915
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posted 27 September 2002 02:24 AM
Under my thumb
The girl who once had me down
Under my thumb
The girl who once pushed me around It's down to me
The difference in the clothes she wears
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb Ain't it the truth babe? Under my thumb
The squirmin' dog who's just had her day
Under my thumb
A girl who has just changed her ways It's down to me, yes it is
The way she does just what she's told
Down to me, the change has come
She's under my thumb
Ah, ah, say it's alright Under my thumb
A siamese cat of a girl
Under my thumb
She's the sweetest, hmmm, pet in the world It's down to me
The way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Ah, take it easy babe
Yeah It's down to me, oh yeah
The way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Yeah, it feels alright Under my thumb
Her eyes are just kept to herself
Under my thumb, well I
I can still look at someone else It's down to me, oh that's what I said
The way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come,
She's under my thumb
Say, it's alright. Love this song, hate it's message.
From: Ontario | Registered: Jul 2002
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WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292
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posted 27 September 2002 09:58 AM
Sure it does. But rock is huge sea of music. Hang around the shallow end and you are bound to step on a sharp rock or two. Blood Of Eden I caught sight of my reflection
I caught it in the window
I saw the darkness in my heart
I saw the signs of my undoing
They had been there from the start And the darkness still has work to do
The knotted chord's untying
The heated and the holy
Oh they're sitting there on high
So secure with everything they're buying In the blood of Eden lie the woman and the man
With the man in the woman and the woman in the man
In the blood of Eden lie the woman and the man
We wanted the the union oh the union of the woman, the woman and the man My grip is surely slipping
I think I've lost my hold
Yes I think I've lost my hold
I cannot get insurance any more
They don't take credit, only gold
Is that a dagger or a crucifix I see
You hold so tightly in your hand
And all the while the distance grows between you and me
I do not understand In the blood of Eden lie the woman and the man
With the man in the woman and the woman in the man
In the blood of Eden lie the woman and the man
We wanted the the union oh the union of the woman, the woman and the man At my request you take me in
In that tenderness I am floating away
No certainty, nothing to rely on
Holding still for a moment
What a moment this is
Oh for a moment of forgetting
A moment of bliss
Oh.... I can hear the distant thunder
Of a million unheard souls
Of a million unheard souls
Watch each one reach for creature comfort
For the filling of their holes In the blood of Eden lie the woman and the man
I feel the man in the woman and the woman in the man
In the blood of Eden lie the woman and the man
I feel the man in the woman and the woman in the man In the blood of Eden we have done everything we can
In the blood of Eden, so we end as we began
With the man in the woman and the woman in the man
It was all for the union, oh the union of the woman, the woman and the man Peter Gabriel [ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: WingNut ]
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001
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SuperGimp
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3090
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posted 27 September 2002 03:18 PM
MICHELLE: See, I would consider that song by Eminem a threat, a criminal offence, if he's using the name of his ex-wife and daughter.
Hopefully she has custody and not him. Far from being considered a criminal offense, it sold millions. Printing the lyrics hardly does justice. It is like listening to a train wreck; it is horrifying. They have joint custody of Haley. What really got to me was my teenage daughter bringing the CD home; she borrowed it from one of her friends. (I just happened to overhear it.) I could not believe it. Yes, we had a big heavy talk about it--but she rolled her eyes and acted like I was some moralistic priest from the 50s or something: "Yes, Dad!" She kept saying she knew the difference between the song and real life...but of course the big thrill people get from the song is that Kim was his wife's name. I felt like I was banging my head against the wall.. My daughter honestly did not see what the big deal was.
From: Dixie-USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873
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posted 27 September 2002 04:05 PM
My daughter did the same a few years back, complete with the eye-rolling thing. She's tired of my opinions on rap, the marketing of rap as hip-hop to lend it credibility, how political, progressive and woman-friendly real hip-hop is, or should be, etc. She doesn't listen to Eminem any more because he's lame, exploits controversy to sell more records. And oh, he's like so last year.She's been exposed to alot of progressive people, alot of activism. But she's 18, and conservative by nature. Hopefully her mind will open up a bit when she gets a little more life experience.
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001
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