Dying once would be too good for a man who played a major role in the deaths of millions around the world.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: NDP Newbie ]

I'm sure you didn't intend to sound disdainful or disgusted by the illness itself there, but that's the implication of its being the death of someone who didn't deserve "a good death."

I spend part of every day with thirty-seven people living with dementia, and they are, believe me, living right now, every day, as much as you and I. With a changed eye, you can think of them without disdain or disgust or fear. Of course, no one could wish that illness or any other on anyone, but large numbers of people over a certain age cope with some form of it, and we have to think about how we use it as a metaphor.

Even Reagan -- I wish him peace after this long struggle.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: skdadl ]

I will feel the same way when people like Jiang Zemin and Crown Prince Abdullah get their one-way ticket to Hell.

And few were more pleased than I (notwithstanding members of the Taiwan Solidarity Union) to see Madame Chiang Kai-shek bite the dust.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: NDP Newbie ]

Talk about Reagan himself, about your reasons for opposing or even detesting him, if that's what you feel.

But wishing peace to Ronald Reagan of all people after his long struggle? Sorry, that kind of humanism doesn't wash. He has the deaths and torture of countless people on his hands, not to mention the destruction of working people's jobs and organisations in the US and elsewhere. I wish him great suffering and a miserable end. What is sad about dementia in his case is he can't remember the hideous things he did or atone for them in any way.

quote:

---

Originally posted by skdadl:
But Reagan only fantasized that he won the war.

---

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: josh ]

Evidently African-American troops, who faced discrimination themselves, were involved in the liberation of some of the western death camps:

"Potter, Lou, William Miles, and Nina Rosenblum. Liberators: Fighting on Two Fronts in World War II. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1992. (D 769.306 761st .P68 1992). A companion book to the documentary of the same name detailing the involvement of the 761st Tank Battalion in the Second World War, the first African-American armored unit to see combat. Asserts that the 761st liberated Dachau, Buchenwald, and Lambach, and provides first-person accounts by members of the battalion recalling their views of the camps. Also details the battalion's training and battle experiences interspersed with stories of the racial discrimination they faced. Opens with a history of Blacks in the United States military from the Revolutionary and Civil Wars through World War II."

quote:

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"If he was a son of a bitch while he was alive, dying hasn't improved him any."

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My mother always said that it was polite to say something good about the dead. Joan Crawford: She's dead. Good.

quote:

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Of course, no one could wish that illness or any other on anyone

---

Wrong. I have no problem at all wishing him an individual-sized portion of the suffering he inflicted on countless others.

I am not superstitious and am not going to pretend that my ill wishes have any connection with his condition.

I don't believe in karma, and I would do nothing to actually cause someone suffering but if 20% of us get to have peaceful deaths and 20% suffer beyond our capacity to relieve, I know which 20% I'd want Reagan in.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Newbie ]

quote:

---

if 20% of us get to have peaceful deaths and 20% suffer beyond our capacity to relieve, I know which 20% I'd want Reagan in.

---

Well, then: you don't get your wish. Too bad, Newbie, so sad.

Have to admit, I luuuvvved that Bette Davis quote, though, Noob!

[/thread drift]

Edited to add a link as requested by skdadl—

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040605.wrea0605/BNStory/Front/

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newbie:
Or as Bette Davis is reputed to have said when Joan Crawford died:

My mother always said that it was polite to say something good about the dead. Joan Crawford: She's dead. Good.

---

Noob—

I am informed by a compatriot over at 365gay.com that if Bette DID say that (and she likely did! ), she stole it from '40s & '50s black comedian "Moms" Mably.

You seem confused.

What people wish to interfere with is the hagiography, when and as it inevitably comes, and with the way that USian sentimentalists, even those who had just begun to recover their sanity -- like the major news networks -- will begin to forget that Reagan was a part, a major contributor, to the culture of lies meant to disguise the reality of imperial aggression and oppression pursued by all USian administrations worldwide.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Unless it leads to an factual examination of his "accomplishments" and the subsequent debunking of his record and the cult of personality already being erected in his memory.

It's not like the right wing bullshitters have a lot of credibility right now...

---

This is the United States we're talking about here. I doubt CNN or the networks will have the guts to use Reagan's death as an opportunity to do a "critical analysis".

quote:

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Unless it leads to an factual examination of his "accomplishments" and the subsequent debunking of his record and the cult of personality already being erected in his memory.

It's not like the right wing bullshitters have a lot of credibility right now...

---

This is the United States we're talking about here. I doubt CNN or the networks will have the guts to use Reagan's death as an opportunity to do a "critical analysis".

quote:

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Big Willy, no one is suggesting interfering with the man himself.

You seem confused.

What people wish to interfere with is the hagiography, when and as it inevitably comes, and with the way that USian sentimentalists, even those who had just begun to recover their sanity -- like the major news networks -- will begin to forget that Reagan was a part, a major contributor, to the culture of lies meant to disguise the reality of imperial aggression and oppression pursued by all USian administrations worldwide.

Not that I see an alternative coming in that benighted, God-forsaken nation soon. (Yes, I mean the U.S.)

---

You said it, skdadl—

They've even started turning PBS into a warped, right-wing propaganda organ.

What makes that culture so drippingly sickeningly sentimental? What what what?

Mind you, I ask that, sitting here, as I do, in a country where a lot of people are now apparently seriously thinking about voting for Stephen Harper.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: skdadl ]

quote:

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Originally posted by kuba:
I'll say it again - I already said it on another thread. I may not have liked one thing about Reagan and his administration, but you have to feel some sympathy for any family dealing with dementia. Its a horrible way to die for the loved ones.

---

I hope, one by one, the various powerful members of the G)P develop some horrible, debilitating disease. As self-absorbed and uncaring of others as they are, that may be the only way they will ever support adequate public funding for research into the cures for these diseases.

I'd settle for 10 or 12 of them getting AIDS, just for a start...

Sound callous? That's tough. I feel a LOT more sympathy for a poor person struggling with a disease like that than I do someone like multimillionaire Condoleeza Rice, the "poorest" of the current Bush administration. These swines don't care and won't act until it directly affects them.

So I say fine— LET them be affected, if that's the only way to change their minds. It's not like I'm actually injecting them with infected blood or anything, the way the Canadian Red Cross did...

Why can you not see that?

Just damn the people you don't like. Leave the bleeding diseases alone if you don't know what you're talking about!

quote:

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Oh, for chrissakes, Hephaestion, again: You defame the people who live with these illnesses, the researchers and activists who work on them, by using them as metaphors to damn the people you want to damn!

Why can you not see that?

Just damn the people you don't like. Leave the bleeding diseases alone if you don't know what you're talking about!

And read Susan Sontag on Illness As Metaphor.

---

Do you or I want, eg, AIDS, or dementia, or ALS, or lung cancer? No, I think.

But some people already have each and all of those diseases. How much do you think it helps any of those people to know that there are people out here saying, "Ooh! AIDS! Ick! Ooh, icky nasty pooh!"?

In effect, that is what you're saying to everyone with AIDS when you wish it on someone you hate.

Even if all you say is, "Oh, poor fellow. How cruel. How awful." -- you are doing the same thing.

Besides, I find it hard to get too worked up about Reagan himself -- the person, that is, as opposed to the administration that bore his name. Everybody knows he didn't do much during the 8 years he played the President. He was just a prop, a mannequin, a mascot. They'd pull his string and he'd recite dumb words and sentimental platitudes off the teleprompter. He didn't know what the fuck was going on around him, even more so than the currently reigning Moron Emperor.

The real evil in the Reagan Administration was concentrated in behind-the-scenes boys like Elliot Abrams. Now if HE were to catch a debilitating, degenerative disease, I might find myself tempted to snicker and gloat. But even in his case I hope I'd be able to resist the urge.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: beluga2 ]

Fine, all right, okay.... jeez!!!

But can I at least hope an asteroid crashes on the GOP convention in NYC— just a teensy, little one?

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

An' that is a pro'lem.

GIven that I'm highly suspicious of the Bush white house I therefore, predict that Bush himself will organize an attack, but a tape which the CIA will confirm was Ossama for us will be found linking the kaboom to terrorism.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: kuba ]

quote:

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Originally posted by skdadl:
There was.

You're suggesting that Bitburg is Heaven, al-Q? Or the, ah, alternative?

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[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Willowdale Wizard ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
it's not good when you anyone does of parkinons, dementia, alzheimers, etc. but i think people should be able to critique the politics of ronald reagans's life (much as when the pope dies) without referring to his chronic illness.

---

I'm terribly saddened that he has Alzheimer's: I wanted him to be able to suffer living through all the harm and misery that his policies brought to millions of people throughout the world: While Layton was right about Martin and homelessness, St. Ronnie of Raygun makes Martin look like the Second Coming.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shane:
President Reagan has passed away.

One of the great leaders of the 20th century. A truly sad day.

---

free trade with canada will not be viewed as reagan's most important achievement.

quote:

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Originally posted by josh:
So, he really is dead. Well I'll heed the admonition that if you don't have something good to say about someone, don't say anything at all.

---

Not me. I reiterate Hunter S. Thompson's quote:

"If he was a son of a bitch while he was alive, dying hasn't improved him any."

Edited to add the old adage—

"Good riddance to bad rubbish."

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

quote:

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CNN is unbelievable. According to Wolf Blitzer Reagan is responsible for the fall of the USSR.

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That, I'm sure, will be the standard notion that'll be found in all Patriotically-Correct history texts from now on. Never mind that if anything the opposite was true -- Reagan prolonged the existence of the USSR with his aggressive military stance, by strengthening his hardline counterparts on the other side.

quote:

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Originally posted by josh:
So, he really is dead. Well I'll heed the admonition that if you don't have something good to say about someone, don't say anything at all.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by spatrioter:
Interesting note: Ronald Reagan is the only president elected in a year ending in "0" who didn't die while in office.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Willy:
Today I lost a hero, today the world lost a man who saved it by bring down the Iron Curtain and defeating global communism.

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[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Willowdale Wizard ]

In 1981 John Hinkley shot him and I stayed glued to my TV for nine hours hoping and praying he'd die.It would be hypocritical of me to say I'm the least bit sorry he's dead now.

Real estate values in Hell will decline when they find out that Ronnie is on his way.

quote:

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:
For those who don't know...or choose to forget...when Reagan was President he chose to pay homage to the "Third Reich", exonerate the SS cutthroats and, what is more, pay his respects to them. Former (late) President Reagan's visit to the Nazi Cemetary in the West German town of Bitburg was regarded all over the world as a monstrous insult to the common memory of the millions of people shot, tortured to death or killed in gas chambers.

---

Not to mention that during the McCarthy Witch Hunts, as president of the Screen Actors Guild he aided and abetted the loathsome McCarthy the whole way, "naming names," twisting arms and black-balling people all over the place.

The man was a slug long before he ran for public office.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

quote:

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Tell me, Newbie: where do you get your expertise on the subject of this or any other illness? Or are you just running on received information?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Well, since Reagan is no longer "near death", could we have this thread title changed to something like "Ding, Dong the P***K is dead"??

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quote:

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Originally posted by josh:
So, he really is dead. Well I'll heed the admonition that if you don't have something good to say about someone, don't say anything at all.

---

Why? He was an asshole, alive and dead.

I have to admit that my first thought upon hearing his passing was: "Thank heavens he did it now rather than in September or October. If Mr. Reagan held on for a few more months Bush would have milked it to a second term in office.

Our condolenses should go to his children and his wife Nancy, and may she be conforted in that she was a better wife than this man deserved and was the beacon that got him through his darkest moments. Let Nancy be consoled by the fact that his life would not have been as happy if she were not his wife.

And let the rest of us be comforted by the fact that all morons eventually lose their battle. Let's ignore for now that it is a battle that we are all destined to eventually lose. May it be later rather than sooner.

My mother would have to hold my hand at night so I could sleep. Part of me hoped that an old Ronald Regean would explain himself - and a part of me now is wondering how he is explaining himself to God, right now.

The Soviet Nuclear weaponry rolled in front of red square was mostly empty tubes and that is the reason why Reagan signed many arms treaties -it was easy to disarm weapons that didn't exist.

The Soviet generals in command of the East Bloc arsenal have become old men, and have said there was never a time when they intended to strike first - except when Reagan waxed warmly about being a Christian president during the Apocalypse; an event he had the power to bring about.

So who was the real evil empire?

Did the Soviets prolong apartheid in South Africa, and is it a coincidence that South America has evolved into an imperfect but mostly democratic region in the years since Regean left office? What has happened to human rights in these places?

Some have said Reagan was a dupe of fundamentalist Christians who bought rumors and stories of Soviet power. Maybe Reagan was a good puppet manipulated by an evil master.

Albert Schweitzer said that reverence for life is the highest court of appeal, and ultimately I think Mr Reagan will have a lot to answer for when he faces the judges of both human history and God.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JBG:

I would hope you'd have a bit more humanity than that. I voted against the man in 1980. No person deserves those kinds of posts.

---

The thread raises other issues. I lived with a very screwed up torture survivor (who alas became more, not less, screwed up over the course of his refugee hearings. He would tell me about his tormentors, transporting him from jail to jail in the wee hours. They would be fretting about a sick wife or parent, or a child's school exams.

Maybe the greens are right about America having one political party.

tributes

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: N-SIGN ]

quote:

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Why? He was an asshole, alive and dead.

There, that's my obituary for him

---

Most of us wish that when all is added up that we did more good by our existance than bad. Reagan didn't.

And I would like to hear Kerry's comments to see if they go beyond what is expected of a person in his situation.

quote:

---

Originally posted by lagatta:
He was a pig, even as a young man selling out his colleagues in the Screen Actors' Guild. He was responsible for the deaths of countless people and a historic setback from which the workers' movement in the United States has still not yet recovered, despite the valliant efforts of many American labour activists and campaigns such as the new Freedom Ride for undocumented migrant workers. I certainly have no pity or compassion for him and will not mourn his passing.

*********

Many people who are capable of doing monumental evil might be quite humane in a more personal, familial context.

---

quote:

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Why? He was an asshole, alive and dead.

There, that's my obituary for him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kuba:
There was some analysis of that after Spain. The Spanish, because they have a monarchy, could rally behind the king and turf the government. [People do get all patriotic after terrorist bombing] The Americans because they only have the Emperor with no Clothes Bush would likely rally behind the president and re-elect him if there was a terrorist ke-boom.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JBG:

You sound like you're attacking an active politician or person who can still do some damage. Is this necessary, to attack a person who's utterly harmless in this manner. This was not Adolf Hitler.

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If someone has to be Adolf Hitler before we can be nasty to him, I'm gonna sulk.
But Reagan can in fact still do damage. Right-wingers have been at considerable pains to rewrite history in favour of their heroes. It's amazing how successful they've been, even with Richard Nixon. They try to control the past in order to control the present etc. etc. and they're doing a 1984-worthy job.

quote:

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So if anything, trashing Reagan is all the more necessary now that the bastard is dead.

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a man is dying, leaving a familly and a nation mourning, and all you can do is thinking in political terms.

quote:

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Fishes don't take the hook

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quote:

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Originally posted by Big Willy:
Today I lost a hero, today the world lost a man who saved it by bring down the Iron Curtain and defeating global communism.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:

Why? He was an asshole, alive and dead.

There, that's my obituary for him.

---

The image was of a pirhana with Reagan's face, with a description of its bloodthirsty habits.

Scores of mass graves in Latin America are full of Ronald Reagan's victims.

quote:

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Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I've always thought that one of the great tragedies of my time was that Chapman was a better shot than Hinckley.

---

Well said!!

That ignoramus over at Freak Dominion, "EdS" has a little picture of Ronnie Ray-gun with the caption "I miss Reagan." I've always thought that was Hinckley's failing.

I wonder if they're playing funeral dirges over at freak Dominion?

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Willy:
Today I lost a hero, today the world lost a man who saved it by bring down the Iron Curtain and defeating global communism. I ask that people Respect Nancy, the President, and the family and stop making such native comments

---

If you want to be taken seriously you should consider using a moniker other than "Big Willy"

quote:

---

Originally posted by spatrioter:
Interesting note: Ronald Reagan is the only president elected in a year ending in "0" who didn't die while in office.

---

The only President since 1840 you mean. It's referred to as Tecumseh's curse as Techumseh was defeated in the Battle of Tippecanoe by William Henry Harrison who went on to become President of the US only to die in 1841.

quote:

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a man is dying, leaving a familly and a nation mourning,

---

I said in my original post that we should have sympathy for his wife. In fact I have sympathy for Mila Mulrooney and her husband is still alive (maybe she deserves more of our sympathy because if this).

quote:

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You people are so fucking sick, I'm gonna puke. You seriously disgust me.
a man is dying, leaving a familly and a nation mourning, and all you can do is thinking in political terms.

---

It's not political, it's moral.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jean Seb:
a nation mourning

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- Miguel D'Escoto, former foreign minister in Nicaragua's Sandinista government

"Reagan was a statesman who, despite all disagreements that existed between our countries at the time, displayed foresight and determination to meet our proposals halfway and change our relations for the better, stop the nuclear race, start scrapping nuclear weapons, and arrange normal relations between our countries. I do not know how other statesmen would have acted at that moment, because the situation was too difficult. Reagan, whom many considered extremely rightist, dared to make these steps, and this is his most important deed."

Personally, I think the "sick fucks" are the ones who make a man who has been responsible for mass deaths abroad, and the misery of thousands of his poorest citizens domestically, into a hero.

Would you rather I be hypocritical and cry crocodile tears now that he's dead about a man I loathed while he was alive?

quote:

---

Reagan poked fun at his age, his work habits and his supposed simple-mindedness. He once said that he knew that hard work never killed anyone, "but I figure, why take the chance?" Much of his humor was spontaneous. Asked while visiting astronauts in Houston before the successful launch of the space shuttle Discovery in 1988 whether he would like to go into space, Reagan quipped, "I've been in space for several years."

---

quote:

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If he dies now we're going to see a massive outpouring of symapthy and a hagiography of the man and celebration of his "accomplishments" in the media unlike anything we've seen since the death of Churchill.

---

My link from the WaPo is five web pages long. That probably is at least a full page spread without pictures. You don't write that well after a Sunday feature deadline.

edited: it's worth a look (the WaPo peice), mind you:

quote:

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A few weeks before he left office, Reagan also reversed long-standing U.S. policy and approved a "substantive dialogue" with the Palestine Liberation Organization after its leadership renounced terrorism and recognized the legitimacy of Israel.

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I know James Taronto of the WSJ weblog ridicules people for wanting to negotiate with Palestinian terrorists. I never realized Reagan, conservative icon, also wanted to negotiate with Palestinian terrorists. Perhaps Peggy Noonan wasn't given that speech to write.

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: clockwork ]

quote:

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michelle: Would you rather I be hypocritical and cry crocodile tears now that he's dead about a man I loathed while he was alive?

---

no, id rather a little class and the respect owed to the recently passed. take a page from jack layton ... from CP

NDP leader Jack Layton has frequently vilified Mr. Reagan for his Star Wars space weapons initiative in his repeated attacks on the government for negotiating a role for Canada in the missile defence shield. Yesterday, he made no attempt to repeat his criticisms of Mr. Reagan, and offered his condolences to the American people

"It's always sad to lose someone who has led a nation and we want to express our best wishes and sincere condolences," Mr. Layton said.

i would rather you loath the man's policies instead of the man. engaging in the former just seems much more constructive.

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: rubberband man ]

I figured every paper and news show would do the all-Reagan-all-day thing. Seems to me that OJ got more attention than this.

quote:

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I figured every paper and news show would do the all-Reagan-all-day thing.

---

the d-day celebratiions are today, the times is leading with this story, and there is no sunday edition of the globe or post.

now michelle, you never responded to my post:

i would rather you loath the man's policies instead of the man. engaging in the former just seems much more constructive.

to quote chomsky, page 54 Understanding Power, he writes:

"In all the books that have come out by people in the Reagan Administration its been extremely difficult to hide the fact that Reagan DIDNT HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON ... the things that would come out of his mouth were kind of like - they werent lies really, they were kind of like the babbling of a child. to be able to lie you have to have a certain degree of competence, you have to know what truth is. And there didnt seem to be any indication that that was the case here

quote:

---

Originally posted by rubberband man:

the d-day celebratiions are today, the times is leading with this story, and there is no sunday edition of the globe or post.

now michelle, you never responded to my post:

i would rather you loath the man's policies instead of the man. engaging in the former just seems much more constructive.

to quote chomsky, page 54 Understanding Power, he writes:

"In all the books that have come out by people in the Reagan Administration its been extremely difficult to hide the fact that Reagan DIDNT HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON ... the things that would come out of his mouth were kind of like - they werent lies really, they were kind of like the babbling of a child. to be able to lie you have to have a certain degree of competence, you have to know what truth is. And there didnt seem to be any indication that that was the case here

no mens rea here

---

quote:

---

Using that rationale, Shrubya is innocent as a newborn lamb, too. What a crock

---

i never said reagan was innocent. and i think you undermine bush's cunning at your own peril, as godard said at cannes in regards to michael moore's new film.

but you cant compare reagan's disengagement with his executive with bush's. bush knows what he is doing. i dont know that reagan did.

but my point still stands, i believe, that it is far more productive to censure an administration's policies than it is the individual personally.

but i dont remember many in the left condemning pol pot when he died. they were too busy calling clinton a war monger for over kosovo

edit: i repeat hepheastion ... this kind of shadenfreude at the death of another is as callous as any policy ms. kirpatrick or mr reagan initiated

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: rubberband man ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rubberband man:

but i dont remember many in the left condemning pol pot when he died. they were too busy calling clinton a war monger for over kosovo

edit: i repeat hepheastion ... this kind of shadenfreude at the death of another is as callous as any policy ms. kirpatrick or mr reagan initiated

---

I have always condemned Pol Pot.

And as for "shadenfreude", I repeat:

lets continue the discussion here, as this thread is getting pretty long.

quote:

---

He ... killed a bunch of people, made a whole bunch of other people's lives miserable

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quote:

---

Not blameless? It was his fault! Selling us out to greedy plutocrats (primarily from the US) was his whole "mission" as PM. The same mission Harper's on now.

---

Paul Martin is just a bit smarter, he knows that, as things stand right now, no one will be able to form government unless they can get the NDP and Bloc to approve their budget.

But if Paul Martin gets his majority because scared NDPers vote Liberal then he will be no different than Harper.

BTW - will any of you be passing by Mulrooney's casket with big gobs of spit in your mouth in the years to come?

And strange that they both have sons spouting their poison.

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: vaudree ]

quote:

---

It's always sad to lose someone who has led a nation and we want to express our best wishes and sincere condolences," Mr. Layton said.

---

I do concede that we are egging each other on - that we would be more cautious in expressing our opinions concerning this man if so many others did not share our views. Michelle

quote:

---

Originally posted by skdadl:
NDPN, I must ask you and others to watch how you speak of Alzheimer's/dementia itself and all the people now living with it.

I'm sure you didn't intend to sound disdainful or disgusted by the illness itself there, but that's the implication of its being the death of someone who didn't deserve "a good death."

I spend part of every day with thirty-seven people living with dementia, and they are, believe me, living right now, every day, as much as you and I. With a changed eye, you can think of them without disdain or disgust or fear. Of course, no one could wish that illness or any other on anyone, but large numbers of people over a certain age cope with some form of it, and we have to think about how we use it as a metaphor.

Even Reagan -- I wish him peace after this long struggle.

[ 05 June 2004: Message edited by: skdadl ]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by DrConway:
My only comment: Reagan took about ten years too long to kick the bucket.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lagatta:
Roy, why on earth are you being so nasty to skdadl? Her comment flowed from humanism. I strongly disagree with it - I think it is misplaced humanism to wish peace to a mass murderer or console his family that never spoke out against his actions (I believe that his late daughter Maureeen actually did, as much as she could under the circumstances). But there was certainly nothing in her comment deserving of such contempt - knowing skdadl, I'm sure she had no intention of insulting the Guatemalan Mayan villagers Reagan played a part in exterminating.

I believe she was concerned with seeing illness as some kind of supernatural justice, when in fact there is no such justice, and many good, decent people die of horrible diseases. And criminals like Pol Pot and Reagan most often die in their beds. I for one will not mourn such people.

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