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Author Topic: Walkom: Sending troops into danger well worth debating
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 30 December 2005 08:26 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It wasn't long ago that newspaper editors would warn their reporters against Afghanistanism — that is, writing at length about places that few of their readers knew or understood. Now, as a country, Canada is engaging in the ultimate Afghanistanism. We're sleepwalking our way into the middle of a complex civil war that has raged in that country for 26 years.

Thomas Walkom


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6441

posted 31 December 2005 01:19 AM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for bringing this Walkom article to our attention, Michelle. It connects with a number of other concurrent discussions on other threads, I think, and maybe can help us shed some more light on this issue. I almost never dissect an opinion piece line-by-line - I'm usually far too lazy. But I'm going to attempt it here, in an abbrieviated sort of way, and hope that I have met all copyright requirements by citing again your reference in the Toronto Star. Mr. Walkom says:

"We're sleepwalking our way into the middle of a complex civil war that has raged in that country for 26 years.

Most Canadians would be hard-pressed to explain why 2,000 more Canadian combat troops are heading to this Asian country in the new year."

Both these statements may well be true.

"The Dutch are hesitant about fighting Taliban rebels. Even the British are reported to be cutting back their Afghan military commitments.

Other NATO members say they're willing to send soldiers to Afghanistan — as long as they don't have to fight.

The U.S., desperate to bring troops home from somewhere, has announced it's reducing its military forces in the country."

Both true. Mr. Walkom could have added that there seems to be some discussion about any continued British military comittment in Afghanistan.

"As a small piece in the web of Canada-U.S. relations, Canada's decision to send combat troops to the Kandahar region of southern Afghanistan makes a kind of morbid sense. It is an offering to U.S. President George W. Bush, a blood sacrifice to atone for our refusal to support his Iraq invasion."

Stripped of rhetoric, this statement reflects the truth that Canada is legally and historically and morally commited, under present circumstances, to come to America's military aid from time to time. The Afghanistan deployment has the further justification that it is authorized by the United Nations and compliant with international law. Mr. Walkom makes no notice of this point.

"Rather, the voyageurs were dispatched to demonstrate Canada's loyalty to its imperial masters.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sending more troops is an offering to President Bush
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it is here. In fact, sending troops to Kandahar might well win points in Washington. But what will it accomplish in Afghanistan? "

The obvious response would be that what might be accomplished in Afghanistan is the provision of a base of security and infrastructure that helps those people in Afghanistan we would all most like to help - those wanting to see an even only- crudely democratic government and basic security for all. When tribal warlordism contradicts these goals, then moderating the behaviour of tribal warlords becomes a justifiable aim.
This is the mission, I would like to believe, that Canadian troops (and even American troops believe it or not, even if they are only a pawn in a larger Imperialistic game) are engaged in.

"True, there is a real need to restore security in that country. That stability which did exist was destroyed when the U.S., Canada and other invaders drove out the Taliban government in 2001. The invaders have a moral responsibility to help to fix what we disrupted."

One does not quite know what to make of this statement. I can only hope that Mr. Walkom mispeaks himself when he so cavalierly passes over the "stability" of the Taliban. This one sentence of Mr. Walkom's has allowed me to file him in the mental drawer that says "dishonest?stupid?dangerous?fun to mess with?" Clearly Mr. Walkom does not know or care about the horrifying realities of life under the Taliban. To excuse, even indirectly, these atrocities under the rubric of "stability" tells me everything I need to know about Mr. Walkom's value and thoughtfulness on this topic.

"However, the wider war against the Taliban and other insurgents requires a political rather than a military solution. The Afghans understand this and have already bought some ex-Taliban figures into their new government.

As for terror guru Osama bin Laden, whose presence in Afghanistan was the ostensible reason for the 2001 invasion, not even the Americans talk about him any more."

It's good to see that Mr. Walkom seems to understand that a political solution is desirable. Rather than scoring a cheap shot at Osama bin Laden, a helpful journalist might have tried to give us some accurate reading of how many internationally and al Qaida connected forces are thought to reside in Afghanistan. Separating these forces from those of local tribal folks defending their own turf will be a perhaps insurmountable task. I think the Canadian military, uniquely, just might be up to it.

"Yet, so far, the U.S. and Canada persist in thinking that they are engaged in a war against what chief of the defence staff Gen. Rick Hillier calls "scumbags" and that this war can be won — that while one set of soldiers defeats the Taliban in the hills, another set can win civilian hearts and minds by building schools."

A close reading of this might suggest that Mr. Walkom believes that the majority of Afghanis support the Taliban in the same sense that the majority of the Viet Namese supported the aims of North Vietnam. I would like to as someone like Skdadl, who is more familiar with RAWA, the Afghani women's movement organization, whether she thinks Afghani women would agree with Mr. Walkom's (admittedly tacit) comparison of the Taliban with other indigenous revolutionary movements such as the Viet Cong.

"I don't claim to have easy answers. But surely the first step would be to recognize a fundamental political reality: that many Afghans support either the Taliban or other hard-line Islamic conservatives.

Hillier may think they are scum but a lot of Afghans don't."

Walkom's easy grouping of the Taliban "or other hard-line conservatives" is misleading. The situation is far more complex, with a stable, traditional and very local system organized along tribal lines intersecting with internatinional geopolitical actors who pose a threat to, well, pretty well everybody. The role that Canada has been given will require great luck and grace and consumate military and diplomatic skills. Walkom does us a favour, I suppose, by bringing the topic to our attention, however cursorily he has considered it.

"If Prime Minister Paul Martin's Liberal government truly wanted to help restore stability to Afghanistan, it would start by trying to build on this political reality.

If it were democratic, it would try to engage the public in a discussion of its Afghanistanism so that we might be able to express a view on whether our soldiers should die there.

And if the opposition Conservative and New Democratic parties had any guts, they'd talk seriously during this election campaign about Canada's role in Afghanistan."

Yet again, Mr. Walkom displays his easy, flatulent worldview. It's actually possible that the leaders Mr. Walkom mentions have in fact addressed this issue - Jack Layton I believe has called for a full citizens inquiry - but it's so much easier to rap off a good line, isn't it, Mr. Walkon" What a flake. And to think I used to think he had something to say.

Anyway, after all that unconscionably long screed, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year, Michelle, and all you wonderful Babblers, and especially you Skdadl.[URL=http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1135378221668&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907626796%20%2 0http://www.rabble.ca]linking [/URL]

[ 31 December 2005: Message edited by: looney ]


From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6441

posted 31 December 2005 01:31 AM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post
Just to mention - I tried to edit out the side scroll in my post and couldn't. When I hit "edit" I only got a partial copy of my post to work with - couldn't delete the long url at the bottom.
From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reason
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9504

posted 31 December 2005 03:17 PM      Profile for Reason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Very well read looney. Mr Walkom does make some good points, and you made some good points. At the end of the day, despite my staunch support for the mission in Afghanistan, the need for debate on the subject can not be removed. This article, and your response show a nice clear path to a diplomatic debate.

Have a happy New Year!


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 31 December 2005 03:31 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good column - especially strong finish.

Walkom is right: put Rick Hillyer's opinions about Afghanistan on a scale and weigh them against the opinions of Afghans about Afghanistan, and watch Rick Hillyer catapult off into irrelevancy.

It didn't help that he felt such a need to talk in such foul terms of people he knows nothing about and to do the vulgar macho swagger.

There is one thing our military could start doing right now: de-mine that country. Beyond that, we are, like all its invaders, stupid about Afghanistan. We are not helping; we are hurting. And we are violating international law every time we turn captives over to the Americans for their torture pens.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 31 December 2005 03:33 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PS: looney and Reason, angry though I become on this topic, I appreciate your sincere attention to it. May we find a way to make better choices in 2006. Happy New Year to you both.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reason
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9504

posted 31 December 2005 04:21 PM      Profile for Reason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
PS: looney and Reason, angry though I become on this topic, I appreciate your sincere attention to it. May we find a way to make better choices in 2006. Happy New Year to you both.

You too skdadl. I haven't always posted in support of some of the views you hold that I do support. In the New Year, I am sure you will find me more vocal in that area.

We will not always get along, and sometimes there will be a great gnashing of teeth, but in my expereince, some of the best relationships (love hate type friendships) are fueled by such conflict.

I do value you and all here greatly (doesn't always appear so, I know). I will attempt, when I see something that inflames me, from posting for several hours in the future (I am afraid my nature will not let me not respond).

To you and all Babblers out there, HAPPY NEW YEAR!


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6441

posted 14 January 2006 10:45 PM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post
Reason. let me second that, weeks late. A very good new year to all you great Babblers.
From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
skeptikool
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11389

posted 15 January 2006 09:51 PM      Profile for skeptikool        Edit/Delete Post
Please!!!

I
don't
have
a
widescreen
monitor.


From: Delta BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 15 January 2006 10:02 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
looney, please use tinyurl to correct that horrendous sidescroll. Thanks!

ETA: it's simple; just go to the Edit button of your post, and cut out the URL, go to tinyurl, paste it there, and voila! a tiny url, which gives no sidescroll.

[ 15 January 2006: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6441

posted 15 January 2006 10:08 PM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post
Sorry Boom Boom, I tried that several times and when I go to edit my post, I only get part of it, not the part with the url, so I can't "tiny-url" it. Sorry.
From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 15 January 2006 10:18 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, not a big deal. But the edit function works for me, as well as tinyurl. I'm surprised it doesn't work for you. Maybe others know what the problem is.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Glorified Ape
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11758

posted 15 January 2006 10:26 PM      Profile for Glorified Ape        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
There is one thing our military could start doing right now: de-mine that country.

While an admirable pursuit (and I believe its being done, to some degree) the first priority, especially of our forces, is to establish security in our Area of Operations (AOR). While I'm sure things have improved in this regard, the ambushing of convoys/patrols would suggest that work still needs to be done and from what I've heard, things are expected to get much worse. AFAIK, there are CF members working constantly on the issue of unexploded ordinance and mines but we can only afford to put so much effort into such ancillary issues while security is in question.

quote:
Beyond that, we are, like all its invaders, stupid about Afghanistan. We are not helping; we are hurting. And we are violating international law every time we turn captives over to the Americans for their torture pens.

I'm not sure how accurate the "hurting, not helping" assertion is. I don't deny that we likely lack full insight into the cultural and political intricacies of Afghanistan, but I wouldn't go so far as to state that our balance of effect is one of hurting instead of helping.

As for the captives, I have to agree that more appropriate and legally sound measures should be applied rather than simply handing them over to a party which has demonstrated itself severely lacking in its adherence to the standards it purports to uphold and export for the benefit of humanity.

[ 15 January 2006: Message edited by: Glorified Ape ]


From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 15 January 2006 10:29 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Okay, not a big deal. But the edit function works for me, as well as tinyurl. I'm surprised it doesn't work for you. Maybe others know what the problem is.
The problem is in the crappy forum software.

Try using the Quote ("") function on looney's post. You won't find the long URL, either.

And yes, it is a big deal!


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
skeptikool
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11389

posted 15 January 2006 11:20 PM      Profile for skeptikool        Edit/Delete Post
TEST

This word should be italicised: TestTest

This word should be bold: Bold

quote:
That which is not used withers away

A failing mark on italics, but a pass on the bold and the quote.

[ 15 January 2006: Message edited by: skeptikool ]


From: Delta BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged

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