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Author Topic: Chávez wins by a landslide, December 3, 2006
M. Spector
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posted 25 October 2006 09:57 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
As the December 3rd Venezuelan national elections approach, in which President Chávez is standing for reelection, the Bush administration, in violation of US and Venezuelan law, is providing financial, diplomatic, and strategic support for Chávez's opponents.
....

This time Chávez's opponent is Manuel Rosales, who unabashedly signed the Carmona decree in April 2002 dissolving the very democratic institutions he now wants to govern. Rosales's shady credentials, however, are more insidious than just ties to Carmona and the coup. According to Golinger, vice presidential candidate Julio Borges is meeting with administration officials later this month in Washington and will be speaking at a forum titled "Can Venezuela Be Saved?" held at the ultra-right American Enterprise Institute (AEI).

According to AEI's website, the event will be hosted by Roger Noriega, a fellow at AEI and former State Department official, whose deep dislike for Venezuela's popular president is unmistakably personal. Noriega happens to have been the one who deliberately lied to the US media about Chávez's phony resignation during the 2002 coup. (Noriega's media ploy, though subsequent White House press statements backed him up, reportedly angered then Secretary of State Colin Powell because Powell himself didn't believe that Chávez had resigned.) Noriega is also tied to organizations like USAID and the International Republican Institute which have funneled millions of US taxpayer dollars – in an era of record budget deficits – to political parties that oppose President Chávez. Presumably, Borges will be collecting a fat campaign check signed by the US taxpayer.


Source

[ 03 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 25 October 2006 10:01 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In the latest poll released this week, conducted by Zogby International, 59 percent of voters said they supported Chavez, while 24 percent said they backed Rosales.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 25 October 2006 10:53 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who would you vote for in the presidential election?

Hugo Chávez (MVR) 51.5%

Manuel Rosales (UNT) 22.7%

Benjamín Rausseo (Piedra) 0.8%

Undecided 25.0%

Source: Opinión Pública Consultores / El Universal

Methodology: Interviews with 1,230 Venezuelan voters, conducted from Oct. 10 to Oct. 15, 2006. Margin of error is 3 per cent.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 02 November 2006 09:44 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anyone looking for a good Marxist analysis of what’s going on in Venezuela (please, let’s not always see the same hands!) could hardly do better than reading this article, excerpts from which appear below:
quote:
One of the main lessons Marx and Engels drew from the experience of the Paris Commune, is that "the working class cannot simply lay hold of ready-made state machinery, and wield it for its own purposes." (The Civil War in France). The experience of the Bolivarian revolution over the last few years is a damning confirmation of this idea, and there is a growing discontent within the revolutionary movement with this state of affairs.

The way Chavez has dealt with this so far has been by trying to by-pass to a certain extent existing institutions while creating others. For instance the social plans in the fields of education, health and others (misiones) were actually not implemented through the Ministries of Health and Education, but rather directly into the communities. The problem is that, lacking a proper structure of control and accountability on the part of the workers and the communities themselves, bureaucracy has also reproduced in many of these new institutions. The problem is therefore not only the old bureaucracy of the IV Republic, but also this new bureaucracy of which Chavez talks, which disguises itself as "Bolivarian" but in reality is playing a counter-revolutionary role.

The latest attempt to deal with this problem is the creation of Communal Councils. These bodies are based on mass assemblies of 200 to 400 families in urban areas and they have the power to elect and recall community spokespersons. Communal Councils (of which there are now thousands across the country) are also supposed to get direct funding from the state in order to deal with issues in the areas where they operate. This, potentially, could be the basis for a new form of state, one which is firmly under the control of working people. The problem arises when these councils co-exist with the present state apparatus, are not part of a nation-wide centralised structure (and therefore their real power is limited) and with the fact that Venezuela still has a capitalist economy (so these councils cannot really plan or manage the economy in their areas). Unless the current state apparatus is destroyed and replaced by a new form of state, one based on elected and recallable delegates from factories, workplaces, communities, etc. the problem of bureaucracy will reproduce itself once and again.
….

The Venezuelan economy remains a capitalist economy. Key sectors remain in private hands and some of them in the hands of multinational companies. This is the case with the banking sector for instance (in the hands of two Spanish based multinationals), telecommunications, the distribution of food, the mass media, etc. These capitalists have shown once again their irreconcilable opposition to the Bolivarian revolution, even though this has not so far threatened the private ownership of the means of production directly.

The issue of who controls the economy must be resolved in the next stage of the revolution. These levers of economic power cannot be left in the hands of the counter-revolution, which will not hesitate in using them to smash the revolution, when it feels the time is right.



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 02 November 2006 11:34 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An interesting article can be found here:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=11314


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 02 November 2006 11:54 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ooops wrong thread

Sorry

[ 02 November 2006: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 27 November 2006 11:29 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Hugo Chávez heads to this Sunday’s presidential election in Venezuela as the favourite, according to a poll by Zogby International and the University of Miami School of Communication. 60 per cent of respondents in the South American country would vote for the incumbent head of state.
Angus Reid

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 30 November 2006 09:47 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Chávez was first elected president of Venezuela in February 1999, 10 years after a popular insurrection against the IMF readjustment programme had been brutally crushed by Carlos Andrés Peréz, whose party was once the largest affiliate of the Socialist International. In his election campaign Peréz had denounced the economists on the World Bank's payroll as "genocide workers in the pay of economic totalitarianism" and the IMF as "a neutron bomb that killed people, but left buildings standing".

Afterwards he caved in to the demands of both institutions, suspended the constitution, declared a state of emergency and ordered the army to mow down the protesters. More than 2,000 poor people were shot dead by troops. This was the founding moment of the Bolivarian upheaval in Venezuela.


Good new article by Tariq Ali on the eve of the election.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 03 December 2006 03:22 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Compare the first paragraphs of these two different stories carried on the Associated Press newswire:
quote:
President Hugo Chavez sought another six-year term Sunday in an election that weighed the popularity of his oil-funded handouts to the poor against fears of increasingly authoritarian rule by one of the Bush administration's most outspoken overseas opponents.
Ian James
quote:
President Hugo Chavez sought another six-year term Sunday in an election that once again highlighted Venezuela's class divisions and could further entrench one of the Bush administration's most defiant Latin American critics.
Natalie Obiko Pearson

[ 03 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 03 December 2006 03:36 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MS, the bias as usual is incredible.

BTW, any links to the results?


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 03 December 2006 03:37 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Oil-rich" Venezuela puts countries like Canada to shame when it comes to promoting solar energy in public works.

quote:
Highlighting one of the first initiatives of the recently launched Mission Energy Revolution, 73 new solar-powered lamp posts were installed last week along Bolivar Avenue in downtown Caracas. Venezuela has plans to multiply the pilot project around the country.

“Can you see these structures all along Bolivar Avenue?” President Hugo Chavez asked hundreds of thousands of his supporters on Sunday, from the stage on the Western side of the avenue. “Above, they have two panels, they are solar energy cells, or better said, cells to capture the energy of the sun. They accumulate the energy throughout the day, and with that we are illuminating Bolivar Avenue at night.

Chavez announced that he saw the solar panel project in action when he was in Vietnam and ordered Energy and Petroleum Minister, Rafael Ramirez to set it up in Venezuela.

According to Chavez, in an effort to multiply the pilot project around the country, the Vietnamese are going to help Venezuela set up a solar panel manufacturing plant.

“We are going to install these solar energy structures, in the Avenues, in the streets and public places throughout Venezuela, in order to save oil!” Chavez called to boisterous applause. “In order to save fuel and to give an example about how you can use the energy of the sun. What a natural, clean, renewable energy, in order to produce electric energy. This is just one example of things that we are beginning to do.”

“Do you think that this would have been possible to do in the past when Venezuela was a North American colony?” he added.


Source

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 03 December 2006 03:41 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Election results: so far all we have is an exit poll report. Chavez is leading.

[ 03 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 03 December 2006 06:56 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chavez wins landslide!

quote:
Anti-U.S. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was headed for a landslide re-election win on Sunday, according to partial results from the National Electoral Council.

The leftist incumbent won 61 percent, while Manuel Rosales, a governor of an oil-producing province who united the opposition, trailed with 38 percent after 78 percent of the vote had been counted, the council said.

If the trend continues, Chavez, 52, would have a strong majority to press his self-styled socialist revolution at home and forge an anti-U.S. front in Latin America to counter what he calls the superpower's "imperialism."

But hundreds of backers of Chavez, whose campaign slogan was "red, really red" to reflect his socialist credentials, descended on an upmarket Caracas neighbourhood that has been a political battleground and danced salsa.

"Rosales's butt ended up 'red, really red' after the whipping we gave him," said Iraida Martinez, a 39-year-old nurse.

Chavez, in power since 1999, has accused Rosales of planning to cry fraud if he loses and try to create a political crisis to topple him. Rosales denies the charge and says he will accept the result if the election is fair.

Teodoro Petkoff, one of the most respected figures in the opposition, said the voting was carried out in a "satisfactory" manner and when irregularities emerged they were generally addressed by the electoral authorities.

The Organisation of American States, which fielded dozens of election observers, applauded the "massive and peaceful" vote


Hasta la victoria siempre!


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 03 December 2006 07:39 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even the CBC admits it:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/03/venezuela.html


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 03 December 2006 08:04 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just watched the BBC and the announcer looked like she was going to be ill. The reporter on the phone was even worse. "Chavez clearly has no mandate to bring in more change without working with the opposition who got almost 40% blah blah blah ...".

Meanwhile he's working for a government who has a prime minister with 100% of the power and barely 40% of the vote.

Like the middle east, whenever the media covers socialism you're always guaranteed to see some great fiction and wishful thinking.


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
sidra
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posted 03 December 2006 08:22 PM      Profile for sidra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can see Bush lurching for the bottle of aspirine.

[ 03 December 2006: Message edited by: sidra ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 03 December 2006 08:32 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by a lonely worker:
Just watched the BBC and the announcer looked like she was going to be ill. The reporter on the phone was even worse. "Chavez clearly has no mandate to bring in more change without working with the opposition who got almost 40% blah blah blah ...".

The BBC website was just as bad. Their story as posted here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6205128.stm
actually tries to imply that the result is in doubt and in some way suspicious or questionable.

I expect this from the Yank press, but the Beeb? Sheesh...

[ 03 December 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 03 December 2006 08:42 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by a lonely worker:
The reporter on the phone was even worse. "Chavez clearly has no mandate to bring in more change without working with the opposition who got almost 40% blah blah blah ...".

Like the middle east, whenever the media covers socialism you're always guaranteed to see some great fiction and wishful thinking.


Okay, often I have mixed views of Chavez, but 61% of the vote in the first round? That's a mandate. Reminds me when Bush called his 2004 victory with 51% of the vote a "mandate".

[ 03 December 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 03 December 2006 09:07 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I expect this from the Yank press, but the Beeb? Sheesh...

Unfortunately since the "Kelly affair" the BBC has become the defacto voice of the neo-lib "new Labour" government.

Chavez's taunts about Blair being Bush's poodle ensures especially antagonistic coverage.

It still is the best tv media available here for covering the world but the spin is horrific. The moment english aljazeera or "the real news" becomes available here (if ever)we'll be changing our channels.

Speaking of media, Venezuela has one of the best records in our hemisphere. Here is an excellent rebuttal to a journalist who spreads the usual neo-lib/con propoganda:

quote:
Just to be clear, Venezuela today has the most progressive constitution in the world, and democratic rights, including freedom of the press, are better protected than ever before. Thanks to government advertising, hundreds of new community television and radio stations, which offer a radically different perspective from the private mainstream media, are flourishing. New laws have been passed that require private television stations to show a minimum amount of independent and locally produced programmes. People who have long been ignored by the media finally have a voice.

All of this is passed over by Gunson, who instead complains that then- information minister Andres Izarra - now head of Latin American news channel Telesur - once accused him of "leading a media campaign to destabilise the government".

It may surprise Gunson to learn that Izarra is not alone in this opinion. It is difficult to see how any journalist could believe that responsibility for the murders during the failed coup against Hugo Chávez in April 2002 is "still a matter of speculation", as Gunson recently wrote on the Guardian website.

While the coup was still in progress, Gunson reported that government troops had opened fire on protesters, a claim which has since been thoroughly debunked. In fact, CNN video photographer Otto Neustald admitted that, hours before any killings happened, he filmed a rehearsed press statement by the coup plotters that Chávez was "massacring innocent people with snipers". This is well-documented common knowledge, but Gunson won't accept it.

Gunson repeats bogus claims of journalists suffering from "institutionalised repression", whatever that means. There are no journalists in jail in Venezuela. Compare that to Colombia, where just last week Telesur reporter Fredy Muñoz was arrested on trumped-up charges of "rebellion" and "terrorism".

To describe the organisers of Hands Off Venezuela as "Trotskyists from an outfit known as Socialist Appeal" is, again, grossly inaccurate - the campaign, open to all, encompasses liberals, greens, libertarians, pacifists, trade unionists and grass-roots activists.

Gunson challenges Chávez's literacy campaign, specifically denying that Unesco acknowledged its effectiveness. Yet on October 28 last year, Unesco director Koichiro Matsuura announced: "Venezuela has been declared [an] Illiteracy Free Territory."


There's no repression of the media in Venezuela


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nanuq
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posted 03 December 2006 09:57 PM      Profile for Nanuq   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There have been some recent accusations of censorship in Venezuela.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 03 December 2006 10:39 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Being an American corporation that has zero respect for any latin nation's laws, I'm sure their refusal to go along with this had something to with it:

Venezuelan media pledge not to disclose electoral results "ahead of time"

quote:
A meeting was held on Thursday morning with the participation of private media representatives and the Organization of American States (OAS) observation mission to discuss the Venezuelan election.

TV news channel Globovisión tycoon Alberto Federico Ravell labeled the move as very positive. During the event, media directors promised not to provide any results as long as the National Electoral Council (CNE) does not release the first official bulletin.

"We are not crazy to disclose electoral results ahead of time,” Thursday said local TV news channel Globovisión director Alberto Federico Ravell when rejecting claims some pro-government spokespeople have made that the private media in Venezuela have plans to declare single opposition candidate Manuel Rosales the winner of December 3rd election before the National Electoral Council (CNE) issues its first report on the election results.



From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 03 December 2006 10:53 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
There have been some recent accusations of censorship in Venezuela.

Take a closer look at who's making those accusations, and you'll be able to flush them down the toilet with no worry.

Give me the level of diversity and open debate in the Venezuelan media overall any day over the quasi-totalitarian corporate mind-fuck of the major media in the US.

As expected, the Venezuelan people voted their conscience in a free and fair election that even the brown-nosing OAS can't find much fault with (and obviously far more democratic than the frauds that pass for federal elections in the US).

As long as the Chavez government keeps on its course of implementing efforts to democratize business, capital and the economy overall and continues to implement safe-guards protecting civil liberties and preventing another coup, they'll have my support.

My middle finger is pointing in the direction of the White House right now.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Abdul_Maria
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posted 04 December 2006 06:04 AM      Profile for Abdul_Maria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
My middle finger is pointing in the direction of the White House right now.

nice to wake up to some good news.

i don't think bush & cheney care how many people flip them the bird.

i'll do a ceremonial flip-off right now (to the bush-cheney criminal syndicate - for good measure.

anyway, Go Hugo !


From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 December 2006 10:49 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I got this by e-mail from Hands Off Venezuela in Toronto:

quote:
Hands Off Venezuela Debates Opposition at Toronto Consulate on Election Day

Dec 3rd 2006. On a freezing December day in Toronto, Hands Off Venezuela activists picketed in solidarity with the Venezuelan Revolution. At the same time several hundred emigre Venezuelans exercised their right to vote at the Venezuelan Consulate. HOV activists handed out an election statement (see attached PDF) and debated with opposition supporters.

One oppositionist was heard saying, "Oh no. We even have to face the revolution in Canada!" Unlike in Venezuela, most Venezuelans who live in Canada support the opposition. You have to have money and connections to get a Canadian visa. We even saw a few oppositionists in expensive fur coats as they waited to vote. But the idea of the revolutionary unity of the Americas is even reaching snowy Canada, so these poor bourgeois will have to find a new place to run to!

HOV and others in the Venezuela solidarity movement are doing everything possible to keep the US and Canada's Conservative government away from interfering with the right of the Venezuelan people to choose their president. In Vancouver, HOV also organized a very successful victory party on the evening of Dec 3rd.

The massive victory of Chavez in the Presidential elections is really a victory for the Venezuelan people, especially the poor and working class. There is also a lesson for workers and left politicians around the world - the Bolivarian Revolution has increased support to over 61% by moving leftwards and not by accommodating a non-existent "middle."

After the election results were announced Chavez pledged to deepen his effort to transform Venezuela into a socialist society.
“Long live the socialist revolution! Destiny has been written,” Chavez shouted to thousands of flag-waving supporters wearing red shirts and braving the pouring rain. “That new era has begun,” he said, raising a hand in the air. ``We have shown that Venezuela is red! .x .x . No one should fear socialism .x .x . Socialism is human. Socialism is love,” Chavez said. “Down with imperialism! We need a new world!”

It is ideas such as these that are spreading the message of the Venezuelan Revolution to workers and youth throughout the hemisphere.

On Tuesday 5th, HOV Toronto is supporting a celebration of the election victory together with 4 other Latin American solidarity organizations (details below). The victory of the Venezuelan revolution marks a step forward for the movement inside Venezuela and the solidarity movement around the world.

To see an excellent video and photo slideshow of the Toronto picket please visit:

http://johnb.smugmug.com/gallery/2204756
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNiqD-uB4v0

Credit and many thanks to: John Bonnar, Photojournalist


(If I'm not mistaken, John is on babble too, right? He usually posts such excellent pictures of activist events in Toronto on babble.)


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Free_Radical
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posted 04 December 2006 11:29 AM      Profile for Free_Radical     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I got this by e-mail from Hands Off Venezuela in Toronto . . .

I'm glad that when I excercise my democratic right to vote in an election here in Canada I don't have to deal with people "picketing" the polls and trying to "debate" my choice

"Hands off Venezuela" seems to be worried, and rightly so, about the U.S. and Canada "interfering with the right of the Venezuelan people to choose their president". Yet, that's exactly what HOV sets out to do, with a bunch of Canadians harassing Venezuelans and telling them how to vote.


From: In between . . . | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Left Turn
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posted 04 December 2006 11:37 AM      Profile for Left Turn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The CBC reported that the opposition was accusing the Chavez government of Fraud on election day. The only evidence provided to back up these claims was that:

a) Fingerprint IDing of voters was required, and;

b) Oh horrors, they conducted exit polls.

Yeah, there's really some fraud going on in Venezuelan elections.


From: Burnaby, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 December 2006 11:42 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting, Free_Radical - my very first thought when I heard about them picketing the Consulate, which was basically a polling station that day, was something similar - there's no way they'd get away with that in a Canadian election.

But, I have no idea whether they were actually approaching voters or whether the voters who got into arguments with them approached them. For all we know, maybe it was just an information picket and the opposition voters got into it with them.

That said, it hits me funny too, to have picketers outside an election polling station.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Free_Radical
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posted 04 December 2006 01:20 PM      Profile for Free_Radical     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
That said, it hits me funny too, to have picketers outside an election polling station.

Exactly. It's just another of those little things that make me worry about Chavez - from electronic voting, Chavez telling public servants to vote for him or leave their jobs (I believe I saw this in a thread here the other day), to using social services (health clinics, Mercals, etc.) as blatant advertising for himself and his party. All things we would never tolerate in Canada - though sometimes I can't help but see the similarites between Chavez and someone like Joey Smallwood.

On one hand, I worry that they indicate a significant erosion of democracy and on the other that these flaws and problems will be grasped by Venezuela's enemies to cause perhaps even greater trouble

[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: Free_Radical ]


From: In between . . . | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 04 December 2006 02:32 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
On one hand, I worry that they indicate a significant erosion of democracy

One reason that Chavez' people are not worried about an "erosion" of democracy is that all of these ploys have been standard in Venezuela for decades.

While I think it is worthwhile to keep a critical eye on Chavez because few ex-military officers have democratic norms in their bones, so far he is well on the acceptable side of democratic practice.

At first I feared he might evolve into a Peron-like dictator. But I haven't seen much reality to that scenario.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 05 December 2006 11:03 AM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Exactly. It's just another of those little things that make me worry about Chavez - from electronic voting, Chavez telling public servants to vote for him or leave their jobs (I believe I saw this in a thread here the other day), to using social services (health clinics, Mercals, etc.) as blatant advertising for himself and his party. All things we would never tolerate in Canada

I really don't think that a handful of Chavez supporters standing outside the Venezuelan consulate constitute a threat to democracy.

As far as the Tim Harper article, Harper is a Washington based correspondant who seems to have taken on the U.S. animosity to Chavez, his bias is quite clear. I also doubt that he spends a great deal of time in D.C. after dark otherwise he wouldn't need to travel to Venezuela to uncover crime and poverty.

Where does he get the figure that poverty under Chavez has increased 50% anyways, he just kind of pulls it out of his ass.

Funny that he is critical of Chavez for spending money building alliances in good faith and co-operation, whereas invading and destroying another country at the cost of 100's of billions is acceptable foreign policy.

Chavez is also interested in engaging and educating those who are most marginalized and encouraging them to participate more in the democratic process. If you believe that social agencies in Canada don't serve political and ideological functions than you are naive.

As far as what is acceptable in Canada, Stephen Harper has demonstrated a greater degree of animostiy to democratic process and open governance than Chavez ever has and he also has demonstrated an interest of robbing marginalized people of basic rights. He does this with only 36% of those who voted.

This does not mean that Chavez is beyond criticism but we need to be careful to be aware of the sources and assumptions behind the criticism. The real threat that Chavez represents in not in terms of Venezuelan interests but that his work legitimizes and alternative to global capitalism and this would be devastating to opposing interests if it catches on.


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 05 December 2006 11:39 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It appears he'd win in Buenos Aires too:

Argentines Ponder Foreign Leaders

quote:
Many adults in Argentina’s capital city hold positive views on Hugo Chávez, according to a poll by Carlos Fara & Asociados. 50 per cent of respondents have a good opinion of the Venezuelan president.

Polling Data

Do you have a good opinion of the following politicians?

Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez

50%

Bolivian president Evo Morales

47%

Cuban president Fidel Castro

46%

Uruguayan president Tabaré Vázquez

35%

Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva

35%

Chilean president Michelle Bachelet 35%

American president George W. Bush 2%


[ 05 December 2006: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 07 December 2006 10:23 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Harper is a Washington based correspondant who seems to have taken on the U.S. animosity to Chavez, his bias is quite clear.


I'm glad I'm not alone who realised this. And his "clever" use of quotes by others - without any critical comment - is just one way of writing objectionable things he couldn't get away with otherwise.

Example:

quote:
"What can we do?" she asks. "If they choose to live on the streets, they will do so because we can't force anyone into rehabilitation."

Now I know why homelessness is increasing in Vancouver (and elsewhere); people prefer to live on the streets.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 December 2006 04:50 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
At first I feared he might evolve into a Peron-like dictator. But I haven't seen much reality to that scenario.

The thing that makes me nervous is that he wants the term limits taken off, which are, I think, in the same constitution he himself had the Venezuelan populace ratify.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 16 December 2006 06:03 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've never understood the need for a two-term limit.

May be you could explain that to me.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 16 December 2006 06:12 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would be nervous of any leader of any country who wanted to change the constitution to extend their potential to hold power, M. Spector.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 16 December 2006 08:14 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why?

If he can win a third term in an election, why shouldn't he be able to?


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 December 2006 10:33 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Because he's talking about a movement that will "take power and hold it for decades", or something to that effect.

I've been a pretty staunch Chavez supporter because he gives practically everybody hell , but monkeying with the constitution he constantly makes a big deal out of in order to better his own chances is one of the red flags that gives me pause.

He could always run the country through his sidekick Jose Rangel, anyway. Rangel is known for making speeches on Chavez's behalf when the president can't go, or some other reason.

(Think Huey Long and OK Allen here)


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 16 December 2006 10:45 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
Because he's talking about a movement that will "take power and hold it for decades", or something to that effect.
As long as he's not suspending elections, what does it matter? Why shouldn't the Bolivarian revolution last for decades, if that's the will of the people?

And I don't see how your suggestion that Chavez get around the 2-term limit by using a sock-puppet to extend his tenure is any less "worrisome" than having Chavez rule openly and directly in his own name.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 17 December 2006 05:28 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chávez gave a speech December 15 at a party to honour his campaign workers. Michael Lebowitz gives us a paraphrase of Chávez's message:
quote:
But, last night Chávez offered some surprises. The MVR [the Movement for the 5th Republic, the electoral party that Chávez formed initially] is history, he said. The new party (provisionally called the United Socialist Party of Venezuela) will be there for all the parties to join or, alternatively, to separate themselves from the government. But this, he stressed, will not be a party that combines the existing parties. Rather, it will be a party that can only be built from the base. In your communities, in your patrols, battalions, squadrons, identify your neighbours who are supporters of the Revolution -- you know who they are, he proposed. Do a census, build the party from below. Make it a party that is not built for electoral purposes (although able to engage in electoral battles); make it a party that can fight the Battle of Ideas, one that can fight for the socialist project, one that allows us to read and discuss the way forward. Make this party the most democratic in the history of Venezuela.

And, choose your true leaders, which only the base can do. There's been too much anointing of people from above with a pointing finger (especially mine). Choose the people you have faith in, whom you know -- not the thieves, the corrupt, the irresponsible, the drunkards. The bad boys must be kept outside. We need to stress socialist morals, socialist ethics.



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 17 December 2006 06:54 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Workers take to the streets of Caracas
quote:
The old state machine is a constant danger to the revolution. It serves to paralyse the revolution at every level, all in the name of the Bolivarian Revolution. Chavez has recognised this and has launched a struggle against corruption and bureaucracy. This is a welcome initiative, but the whole rotten machine, left over from the Fourth Republic, has to be thrown onto the scrap heap. This will require the mobilisation of the masses, the election of all officials, with the immediate right of recall. It will mean the rotation of all responsibilities to prevent bureaucracy. All officials must be on the average wage of a skilled worker to eliminate privilege.

Today, given this resistance by the state bureaucracy, the road to the nationalisation of Sanitarios Maracay will not be easy. This bureaucratic resistance must be broken. The struggle must be stepped up, including the need for a new workers' state. That is the only way to win in this struggle of living forces. The UNT leadership must throw its full weight behind the workers. The struggle must be broadened and spread to other factories. The workers and their families have the will to win. Such a victory will dramatically change the situation and put down a decisive mile-stone in the Venezuelan Revolution. It must be the opening shot in the expropriation of the entire capitalist class, bankers and landowners and the creation of a genuine workers' democracy based on the will of the majority. Such a development would transform the entire continent and make reality of the dream of Bolivar, the unity of Latin America, but on the basis of workers' power.



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 21 December 2006 04:42 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hugo Chavez Frias' Electoral Victory Majority Greater Than For Any US President - Since 1820
quote:
Amazing but true. On December 3, 2006, the people of Venezuela voted in what hundreds of independent observers from around the world, including from the Carter Center in the US, called a free, fair, open and extremely smooth and well-run electoral process. They chose the only man they'll entrust with the job as long as he wants it reelecting Hugo Chavez with a majority 62.87% of the vote with the highest voter turnout in the country's history at almost 75% of the electorate. No US president since 1820, when elections here consistently became real contests, ever matched it [n]or has any US election ever embraced all the democratic standards all Venezuelans now enjoy since Hugo Chavez came to office.

[ 21 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

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