For weeks, Obama has been condemning his pastor for saying that "racism is endemic to America".

Now, Obama has resigned from his church altogether.

Barack Obama sacks adviser over talks with Hamas

quote:

---

One of Barack Obama’s Middle East policy advisers disclosed yesterday that he had held meetings with the militant Palestinian group Hamas – prompting the likely Democratic nominee to sever all links with him.

Robert Malley told The Times that he had been in regular contact with Hamas, which controls Gaza and is listed by the US State Department as a terrorist organisation. Such talks, he stressed, were related to his work for a conflict resolution think-tank and had no connection with his position on Mr Obama’s Middle East advisory council. ...

Mr Obama, who has been trying to assuage suspicion towards him among the influential Jewish and pro-Israel lobby, spoke at a Washington reception marking the 60th anniversary of Israeli independence on Thursday when he promised that his commitment to the country’s security would be “unshakeable”.

---

quote:

---

For weeks, Obama has been condemning his pastor for saying that "racism is endemic to America".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

I thought he condemned his pastor for saying that the US government INVENTED HIV on purpose as part of a conspiracy to kill or non-whites, for saying "God damn America" and for saying that Obama was lying because he was a politician.

---

You thought that because your political instincts trump your reading skills:

quote:

---

In a speech this morning at the National Constitution Center, Sen. Obama said he had been present when Rev. Wright made some of his "controversial" sermons. He said Wright's sermons went beyond a "religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country -- a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America."

But Obama stopped short of fully disowning the controversial minister. "I can no more disown him that I can disown the black community," he said.

---

That was March 18.

Within 10 weeks, this typical lying politician had disowned, first his minister, and now his entire church.

Following the logic in his above quote, he has now disowned the black community, right?

If ever elected president, he will also disown the empty snake-oil about "change" and "hope" which has dazzled a handful of gullible people in some progressive circles, kind of like a mirage in a parched landscape.

[ 01 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

Tommy Douglas (always my political hero) managed to maintain hope in the middle of vast deprivation. And you should have heard Maple Leaf Gardens filled to the rafters (a quarter century and a world war later) and echoing with "Tommy is our leader, we shall not be moved,...like a tree that's standing by the water, we shall not be moved..." in more than one chorus.

Tommy was forced to leave his church as a pastor.
It wasn't a subject for public debate in Canada then.

Today, we've gotta hope that reason reasserts first place in public decision-making as well as in public discourse, in the U.S. and here. The problems needing solution today go beyond depression and nuclear threat to survival.

Don't know that they have anything more likely than Obama to bring it off,down there.

quote:

---

Originally posted by George Victor:
Don't know that they have anything more likely than Obama to bring it off,down there.

---

quote:

---

WASHINGTON, May 31 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy, a practicing Baptist minister and President of the Interfaith Alliance, issued the following statement upon the news that presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama resigned his nearly two decade membership at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago:

"No candidate for the presidency should ever have to resign from or join a particular house of worship in order to be a viable candidate for that high office. To make such a decision for political reasons dishonors religion and disrespects the constitution. This is a sad day in American politics and even sadder in American religion. Senator Obama is at the center of the storm, but all who wed religion to partisan politics share responsibility for this tragic development."

The Interfaith Alliance celebrates religious freedom by championing individual rights, promoting policies that protect both religion and democracy, and uniting diverse voices to challenge extremism. Founded in 1994, the Interfaith Alliance has 185,000 members across the country from 75 faith traditions as well as those without a faith tradition. For more information visit interfaithalliance.org.

---

[ 01 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

At least they haven't shot Obama yet.

quote:

---

Originally posted by George Victor:
We live in hope, eh?

---

Well, Clinton seems to, since she made that statement about how she's staying in the race in case Obama is assassinated! (Okay, she didn't say it in those words exactly...)

He now knows that someone is just waiting to take a pot at him, of course. And that also raises him, in my estimation, above the lowing herd. He's not just a black man with an intellect.

quote:

---

Originally posted by George Victor:
He now knows that someone is just waiting to take a pot at him, of course.

---

"You can participate by placing a flag at a veteran's grave, taking your family to the battlefields where freedom was defended, or saying a silent prayer for all the Americans who were delivered out of the agony of war to meet their Creator."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
I always applaud people leaving their churches. I wish more people would get with the program, lave their churches and discover the virtues of atheism!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
He must really be getting ready for a run at the "White" House.

---

Plenty of soul-searching at Obama's former church

quote:

---

As thousands of churchgoers gathered on a warm spring morning Sunday, some directed their anger toward those they blamed for the loss of a favored son: the media.

"Why won't they leave?" Melissa Dwight-Washington asked.

Block after block, along West 95th Street and the side streets leading up to Trinity, reporters peppered her and other anxious churchgoers with questions about Obama's departure. Glaring at the satellite trucks and clusters of news camera crews, she shook her head in disgust.

"Leave us alone," she mumbled. "They've already driven one of our best away."

For months, church members -- a mix of the working class and well-to-do -- have insisted that the media's portrayal of Trinity and Wright, a former Marine, is unrecognizable.

---

quote:

---

The only public acknowledgment that Trinity had lost a longtime member was a brochure handed out after each service.

In it, [new pastor] Moss wrote, "[W]e pray for our member, who is a public servant; we pray for all public servants. We, the community of Trinity, are concerned, hurt, shocked, dismayed, frustrated, fearful and heartbroken. Our hearts break at this moment and my limited vocabulary is inadequate to describe the range of emotions flooding our spirits at this time."

Although scores of church members refused to discuss Obama's decision to leave Trinity, one couple made their feelings clear. Tony Brunson walked past the camera crews, greeted a street vendor -- and bought a pair of "Obama in '08" baseball caps.

"The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion," said Sandy Brunson, his wife, who used to teach at Trinity's preschool. "Barack Obama is strong in his faith. And he still has my vote."

---

quote:

---

Obama Has Been A Member Of Trinity United Church Of Christ For Twenty Years. Monroe Anderson stands up for Reverend Wright's ministry, "For the past two decades, Barack Obama has been a faithful member of the congregation at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ." ...

Obama Was Baptized And Attends Church Once a Week When He is Able. In the Audacity of Hope, Obama wrote, "I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized." In 2004, he "attend[ed] the 11 a.m. Sunday service at Trinity in the Brainerd neighborhood every week -- or at least as many weeks as he is able. His pastor, Wright, has become a close confidant." When asked about his decision to be baptized, Obama said "Kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me," he said of his walk down the aisle of the Trinity United Church of Christ. "I submitted myself to his will and dedicated myself to discovering his truth." ...

Trinity United Church Of Christ Is The Largest UCC Congregation, A Liberal Denomination That Was The First To Ordain An African American, Woman, And Gay Man. ...

Trinity Educates New Members About the Historical Context of the Black Values System; Puts It In Context of Civil Rights Movement And Chicago's South Side. ...

TRINITY IS A "WARM AND ACCEPTING" CHURCH COMMUNITY WHERE ALL RACES ARE "ENTHUSIASTICALLY WELCOMED" ...

TRINITY TENETS ARE "TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE" AND EMPHASIZE "COMMITMENT" TO GOD, COMMUNITY, FAMILY, WORK, SELF-DISCIPLINE AND SELF-RESPECT ...

---

Oh well, time to start editing out all this stuff, I guess.

Well, not all of it. Some of the points on the page are still very appropriate for his run at the White House:

quote:

---

Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian ...

Barack Is Not and Has Never Been Muslim ...

Barack Never Attended a Muslim School ...

OBAMA'S MIDDLE NAME IS NOT MOHAMMED

Barack Obama's Middle Name Is Not Mohammed. Barack Obama's middle name is not Mohammed.

---

NOTE: That last bit is not a typo. It appears three times in a row in the original.

What a creep.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

Three Gods, An Ocean of Blood, and a Sodden Press
by The Unapologetic Mexican

For me, the egregious distinction to be made between these people, their words, and the consequent reaction is not even that the white men are given a free ride on their words and associations, while the black men are perceived as terrifying and inarguably anti-American. That is obvious and gross and damning enough. But there is a deeper distinction that to me is even more offensive, though as of yet escaping public notice.

It is the reason the men were saying what they were saying; the exact context of the "damning" taking place; and the professed God's agenda and purpose. The divide between these is illuminating.

In Jeremiah Wright's story, the entire point—given you sussed out the arc and weren't just hearing a couple sentences—was that in this world where so many things are impermanent and will turn and harm you when you thought they would not, there is but one constant, and that constant is God. So don't rely on these impermanent and sometimes disastrous structures. He tells of the history of blacks, and how they have hung on and weathered the many tribulations visited upon their kind, and again, his point is that through all this, you are going to be all right if you put your faith in God. Putting it anywhere else—even in something as mighty as America—is not the answer.

(snip)

Measure this against Falwell's and Hagee's contexts: They tell a tale of a God who is judgmental and sociopathic, who sees people "sinning" (I'm sure we are all not in agreement that being gay and proud of it or being a Feminist is "sinning') and visits death, pain, sorrow and huge loss upon them. Theirs is a vicious God who sees Feminism, Abortion, Secularists, and Gays—and brings destruction and mass-murder upon them. And calls it just.

In the wake of great disaster, Wright tells his followers that times are dangerous but to hold on, to remember the Constant, to take solace in a God who will not abandon them.

(snip)

In the wake of great disaster, Hagee smugly gloats over the piles of bodies and rot that lay in the sun and exposed our national inequities and priority of care, and he calls it payback.

And in this modern day when we have access to computers, books, YouTube, and many forms of media that we might access and investigate the entire context and beliefs of figures like these, the pundits ignore these obvious differences and deem Wright the scary and dangerous one.

It is they—our entrenched corporate media—who are scary and dangerous. Mostly because to many people still consider their words and yet, not their ineptitude and agenda.

---

Blog: The Unapologetic Mexican

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Excuse the minor thread drift, but it's getting pretty gross watching white folks go all wonky over Obama and Rev. Wright.

---

I don't understand your point. Obama is running for president of folks of all colours (not just white folks), and as president of the U.S. his actions affect the whole world (not just white folks). When he commits treachery and deception, attacks a man of integrity who speaks the plain truth (Rev. Wright), and increasingly swears allegiance to the predominantly white and very imperialist and aggressive ruling class of the U.S., then his actions are everyone's business.

Do you mean, why the outrage over Jeremiah Wright and not over Hagee? Then I agree 100%, and the explanation is simple - because not one official representative of the U.S. ruling class, from Obama on down, can tolerate the truth spoken by Rev. Wright, while the ugliness spewed by Hagee is just daily U.S. policy put in its unblemished form.

Or do you mean, why the outrage over Obama and not over Hagee? Because Obama is a phoney pretend-progressive who is running for president. People need to be warned about his true nature, as exhibited increasingly by his own words and actions. No one would waste time on babble exposing a scoundrel like Hagee.

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Where's the outrage over Hagee?

---

quote:

---

I still don't get it.

---

You are by no means the only one. What discourages is me is that there is not much sign that anyone 'gets it', except the few usual suspects who tire of posting and watching themselves transformed into sirens.

But you turn 'not getting it' into a high art form... into pig-headed idolotry.

You are the one that most likes to stir up the stories of what you call Obama's despicable betrayal of his community.

You don't give a damn that Africans Americans do not see it that way. And when its pointed out you just make ad hominem attacks on the speaker as a sycophant or deluded dupe or whatever stone is handy at the moment.

Your tactics of argumentation are despicable in their own right- but that isn't my main concern.

My main concern is that whatever you care about racism is vastly trumped by your concern for missionizing around your elevated Verities.

The two most obvious of your sacred Verities are that religion is evil, and the one relevant here: attempting to enlighten the dupes about posers like Obama.

And you will spare nothing in your scorched earth approach to the pursuit of your missions.

So much so that you will use abstractions about racism subsumed to your real priorities, not to mention crass word play, just as a stick to beat the dupes with.

Who cares about "colatteral damage" to real discussions of racism, eh?

quote:

---

If I still misunderstood, then I apologize.

---

Or you will until you understand that it is a criticism of you. And then you'll just say that it is your critics who don't understand. You are safe.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: KenS ]

quote:

---

Feel better now?

Moderators advised.

---

Damn right it's personal.

But you might try what people occassionaly do with you. Despite the venom you spread, people do at times set that aside and deal with the substance of what you said.

There is most definitely a substantive core to what admittedly was a rant on my part. The adeptness with which you have numerous times dodged that substantance shows you do understand it.

In closing I'll note that I don't need to notify the moderators as to other ways to read my rant than the obvious criticisms of it you will have sent them.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: KenS ]

Yes, I know, there's a whole other thread where this person and that person personally attacked people that I haven't gone through yet. Don't worry, I'm going to go through it when I get an hour or two to look it over.

But not before lodging a protest that why should unionist get away with conistently and deliberately inflaming to make his point?

Is that all that matters, that he can stay clear of the line where there are rules? Violations of the spirit of the rules mean nothing? [Or at a minimum, that a number of people clealy feel he violates the spirit.]

And I was definitely not shadow moderating here. I'm making criticisms no moderator would ever make.

If you want to rule them out of line. I accept that. But it is not shadow moderating.

Also for the record: the warnings to me you are referring to are because I was derailing threads in the feminism forum. The content of my posts here are totally in line with what the thread is about.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: KenS ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenS:
You are the one that most likes to stir up the stories of what you call Obama's despicable betrayal of his community.

You don't give a damn that Africans Americans do not see it that way.

---

Just to clear up this baseless attack - the idea being that if it is repeated often enough someone will believe it.

unionist, please stop addressing him or he'll just keep coming back.

quote:

---

I ACCUSE Obama of being as much of a servile defender of the U.S. ruling class and its aggressive warmongering racist activities

---

How many other such churches have preachers of the courage and calibre of Rev. Jeremiah Wright? I'm asking because I don't know, and I'm hoping the answer is "many".

If this is the case, then the anger and passion and truth expressed by the likes of Jeremiah Wright, and indeed his whole church, represent a serious internal threat to the racists and exploiters and warmongers who rule that country to the south. They represent a threat to the Clintons and Obamas, who (if history is any guide) would carry on exactly the same domestic and external policies as their predecessors.

Obama's departure from his church - even more so than his condemnation of the truth spoken by Wright - may yet be a defining moment that awakens many people to the divide in U.S. society, and indeed around the world. It may yet be a small part of a clarion cry whereby people are required, yet again, to answer the question: "Which side are you on?"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

overstating things just a tad??

---

Stockholm, twelve months ago - maybe even six months ago - my dramatic statement would have been an overstatement. But Obama has done and said terrible things since then (in my humble opinion), about Israel, invasion of Pakistan, denying endemic racism in the U.S., backtracking on total withdrawal from Iraq, condemning Rev. Wright for speaking the truth, brandishing his "I am not now and never have been a Muslim, and I have never attended a Muslim school, and my middle name is not Mohammed", and now leaving his church under the incredible circumstances in which he did so.

quote:

---

condemning Rev. Wright for speaking the truth

---

You mean truths such as that the US government purposely INVENTED HIV in order to commit genocide against non-whites??

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

You mean truths such as that the US government purposely INVENTED HIV in order to commit genocide against non-whites??

---

See, Stockholm (and everyone else), that's what I meant by "Which side are you on?"

I'm onside with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, even if he said one bizarre thing that has become your "stock" (sorry) in trade.

You have clearly stated which side you're on.

To me, when someone puts forth a theory that is so absurd and delusion and refuses to backtrack - I just consider that person to have no credibility whatsoever.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
I also tend to not to pay attention to people who think that putting fluoride in drinking water is a Communist plot.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
I think the good Rev. was using hyperbole.

---

quote:

---

I think the good Rev. was using hyperbole.

---

That's all very well, but the fact is that when you use hyperbole - it can then discredit anything else you might have to say that is valid.

Wright has been given ample opportunity to clarify his remarks and to explain that this was just "hyperbole" and that he doesn't ACTUALLY believe that the US government PURPOSELY INVENTED HIV in order to kill off African-Americans - and and he has declined to do so. If he won't explain that this is hyperbole - I have no alternative but to take the "good Rev." at his word and to assume that he believes what he says.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: Stockholm ]

quote:

---

If you're on the "side" of someone who honestly and truly believes that the US government PURPOSELY INVENTED HIV in order to kill off as many African-Americans as possible - then I have to ask if you have seen any UFOs or if you have a membership in the Flat Earth Society.

---

Do you have a link to Rev. Wright's statement on HIV?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L6lQyTu9mjE&feature=related

Now, I suppose that if you what you want is for Barack Obama to lose all 50 states and get about 5% of the vote in a presidential election - maybe it IS a good idea for him to campaign from coast to coast stating that he agrees with his pastor that the US government purposely invented HIV in order to commit genocide against African-Americans and btw "God Damn America!" etc...

You care whether Obama wins, because you haven't commented on one single thing he stands for.

That's very clear, thank you.

This thread is about his departure from his church, and the reasons why he left.

I'm not a church-going type person, as some of you may know. But I rate Trinity United Church of Christ light years ahead of the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the White House, and the "We Love Obama Hope and Change Fan Club".

Why? because of what each of the above stand for on the issues that matter to humanity.

quote:

---

When you are thirsty and have only one glass of water that has some sand in the bottom you drink the water. Only a person who has no thirst would obsess about the sand and throw the water away.

---

I'm sure that there are plenty of Republicans in the US who would take that view when confronted with Rev. Hagee's ludicrous hateful comments. Similarly, there were plenty of neo-cons who used that kind of argument to defend their beloved icon Mel Gibson when he launched his drunk anti-semitic screed after being arrested.

Did his church change - or is he just starting to figure out the lay of the land?

quote:

---

If Obama feels he must suckhole to U.S. power on all these fundamental issues in order to win

---

Roman Catholic priest Michael Pfleger was reported by the Chicago Sun-Times as having said the following during his guest sermon at Trinity United:

quote:

---

In his address at Trinity last Sunday, Pfleger began by talking about the need to expose "white entitlement and supremacy wherever it raises its head," according to a video clip on YouTube. Pfleger speaks of Clinton's tearing up just before the New Hampshire primary.

"I really don't believe it was put on," Pfleger said. "I really believe that she just always thought, "This is mine! I'm Bill's wife, I'm white, and this is mine! I just gotta get up and step into the plate." And then out of nowhere came, "Hey, I'm Barack Obama," and she said, "Oh, damn! Where did you come from? I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show!'"

Mimicking Clinton mopping tears, Pfleger added, "She wasn't the only one crying, there was a whole lot of white people crying."

---

Besides receiving "thousands of hate threats" in the "Land of the Free" after his sermon, he also got a call from his boss:

quote:

---

Pfleger's boss, Cardinal Francis George, on Friday also rebuked Pfleger for his "personal attack" on Clinton, and said he had received assurances from Pfleger that he would no longer campaign for or even mention the names of political candidates.

---

Telling truth to power (whether one agrees with Pfleger's style or the details of his message) seems to have no place in the Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. Quite a contrast with Trinity United. Perhaps Obama will find his new spiritual home soon...

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

If Obama feels he must suckhole to U.S. power on all these fundamental issues in order to win, then I definitely hope he loses all 50 states. The tragedy will be that this will be interpreted the wrong way. But that's another indictment of the betrayal that Obama has committed against the hopes of progressive people.

---

I think you are mistaken if you believe only the designated pure should run for president-- or that someone can actually sidestep the lobbyists, the corporate media gatekeepers (who guarantee that no-one who is any real threat to the status quo will be taken down).
There is close to zero chance that anyone who doesn't do copious amounts of bootlicking and sleazy backroom (and public) alliances gets near the presidency.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
AS much as my respect for Hillary Clinton has taken a node-dive over the past few months, I thought Pfleger's personal attacks on her really went over the line and I don't blame people for calling him very sexist and i don't think Obama had any alternative but to totally disassociate himself from those remarks.

---

I don't know why Obama has to "disassociate" himself from someone else's comments, especially someone who isn't his pastor.

quote:

---

Originally posted by contrarianna:

Your apparent preference of a McCain landslide as punishment for Obamas "betrayal of progressives" suggests 2 things:

---

That's your misperception. I don't want Obama "punished". I want him understood.

I am unconvinced of any substantive difference in future policy between McCain and Obama. Obama has shown he will say, or abandon, virtually anything in order to please the media and pundits, which augurs poorly for the future.

Also, I don't care if anyone is "pure". I'm not asking for a socialist candidate. I do, however, draw the line at undying support for Israel, threats to invade Pakistan, and denial that racism is endemic to the U.S. These are not small issues. If in fact no one can win a U.S. election without being an apologist for racism and a warmonger, then elections are the wrong place to look for change in the U.S.

quote:

---

I don't know why Obama has to "disassociate" himself from someone else's comments, especially someone who isn't his pastor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

... a rally to get people to vote Obama.

---

quote:

---

What really bothers me is your underlying assumption that Obama will be different on one, single, identifiable, concrete issue from McCain.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldgoat:

Whoever gets in will get there owing a lot of groups, and will be expected to pander accordingly. Given Clinton Obama and McCain, who do you want making judicial appointments?

---

Is that what it comes down to? That's the same answer I got once before when I asked this question. Has Obama said whom he has in mind for judicial appointments? Or is this just speculative? If that's what it comes down to, let's clearly say that progressives should go all out to support Obama because he might make better judicial appointments than John McCain - while the wars, aggression, exploitation, and racism all continue. Oldgoat, I can't bring myself to say such a thing, especially when the evidence is lacking.

By the way, here is the "racist" Roman Catholic priest who somehow made Obama quit his Protestant church (in a flight of logic I will never understand). You can see that this man is almost as crazy as Jeremiah Wright. Just listen to his ranting and raving:

quote:

---

Oldgoat, I can't bring myself to say such a thing,

---

Well then by gosh I won't ask you to.

I believe that we live in a universe where one of three people will be appointing not only the next few Supremes, but making countless other judicial and other appointments. These apointments will be important, and can have far reaching effects beyond the next one or two terms. It is my personal belief, that out of this limited field that the least bad appointments will be made by Obama. That in itself I feel, is an important difference.

edited to add: Your link doesn't work.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

You see, I don't know or care what religious notions are swimming around in their heads. But, as in the case of millions and millions of religious people worldwide, when it comes to social justice, anti-racism, inclusion, and progress, their words and deeds are right on.

quote:

---

And I like some of what I heard from Roman Catholic priest Michael Pfleger.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

I strongly sustect that if anyone posted even 1/10 of what Fr. Pfleger had to say about Hillary Clinton on babble, they would be denounced as a "sexist" and "racist" and probably banned for life.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
If you claim his views as your own - then all I can say is "so long, it's been good to know you".

---

Here is a paraphrase of what I heard him say about Clinton:

If she does not want to be held responsible for the racism of her ancestors, then she must renounce the white supremacy and white privilege which she inherited from them.

quote:

---

Pfleger imitated Clinton by saying, "I really believe that she just always thought, 'This is mine. I'm Bill's wife. I'm white, and this is mine. I just gotta get up and step into the plate.' Then out of nowhere came, 'Hey, I'm Barack Obama,' and she said, 'Oh, damn! Where did you come from? I'm white. I'm entitled. There's a black man stealing my show!'"

---

Not only that, but they have a little old thing down there called separation of church and state. This priest was using the pulpit to give a political stump speech supporting Obama and to rake Clinton over the coals? They should lose their charitable status over it or at least be given a pretty stern warning. He deserved to be raked over the coals by his superiors for not only his obnoxious sexism but for bringing partisan politics into the pulpit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michelle:

Not only that, but they have a little old thing down there called separation of church and state. This priest was using the pulpit to give a political stump speech supporting Obama and to rake Clinton over the coals? They should lose their charitable status over it or at least be given a pretty stern warning. He deserved to be raked over the coals by his superiors for not only his obnoxious sexism but for bringing partisan politics into the pulpit.

---

Fair enough. Sexist no doubt.

But we are saying that priests, ministers, and rabbis must never ever say anything political in the context of their "work". And this is an breach of the principle of the seperation of church and state?

So, El Salvador's Oscar Romero was violating this principle, when he called for an end to the repression from the pulpit in the early 1980's, and his critics (the right wing Junta) were correct in saying he should concern himself with his ministrations to the spiritual needs of his congregation.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
I'd say that was a violation of the injunction against the seperation of church and state.

---

Absolutely right. That's obviously some repressive attempt to keep progressive clergy in line with their mouths shut - if it's true that is. If Pfleger was wrong to support Obama, the Wright "interfered" in politics a million times more!

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Excuse the minor thread drift, but it's getting pretty gross watching white folks go all wonky over Obama and Rev. Wright. It's become an obsession.

---

I found Pfleger's performance to be condescending. I thought his black wannabee style in front of a black audience was self-serving and irritating. If he were to be reported as repeating the same type of dynamic in front of his dominantly white audience, I would be more impressed, but I don't know about that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Makwa:
This is not going to come up in this election, but African American people need a program whereby they can rediscover their DNA roots, find their history, and have a fund which will ensure the future of all of their children, as do FN people.

---

quote:

---

Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Trinity are community building blocks that the right wing has turned into bricks to be thrown at presidential candidate Obama from now until the general election ends in November—and perhaps beyond.

So in an attempt to turn manufactured right-wing ammo into blanks, Obama has completely separated himself from his minister and his church. What worries me is this: Can we expect a President Obama to cave in to the whims and will of the right on policies and issues he knows are important, if this nation is to move forward in a progressive and compassionate manner? Can we expect him to genuflect to negative reports by an uninformed, misinformed or ill-willed media? Is the candidate of change willing to go-along in a willy-nilly get-along fashion?

I hope not, but I’m not sure.

---

If you look at Obama's record in Congress, you will also see this:

quote:

---

When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.

Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”

“I just did that last year,” he said, to murmurs of approval.

A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.

Those revisions propelled the bill through a crucial committee. But, contrary to Mr. Obama’s comments in Iowa, it ultimately died amid parliamentary wrangling in the full Senate.

“Senator Obama’s staff was sending us copies of the bill to review, and we could see it weakening with each successive draft,” said Joe Cosgrove, a park district director in Will County, Ill., where low-level radioactive runoff had turned up in groundwater. “The teeth were just taken out of it.” - NY Times

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Makwa:
I found Pfleger's performance to be condescending. I thought his black wannabee style in front of a black audience was self-serving and irritating. If he were to be reported as repeating the same type of dynamic in front of his dominantly white audience, I would be more impressed, but I don't know about that.

---

Your assumption about Rev. Pfleger's "dominantly white audience" is a little surprising, Makwa.

Rev. Pfleger is the pastor of the Faith Community of St. Sabina, which is an African American Catholic church. He is a decades-long ally and fighter on behalf of African American civil rights.

If you're interested in hearing him before judging him, here is his "Apology to Church Family". I'm sure he'll forgive me for quoting it in full:

quote:

---

Last Sunday, I was invited by Trinity United Church of Christ to come and preach on the topic of race.

I agreed to do so because of my love for Trinity, Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Rev. Otis Moss, III and because all my life I have sought to deal with the reality of racism. As I said, Last Sunday, I have committed myself to tear down the walls that divide us wherever they stand.

In 1966, as a junior in high school, amidst all the hate and meanness that surrounded me in Marquette Park, I heard more than the voice of Dr. king calling for community over chaos. I heard that small voice from within, that said, I am showing you this now, because you must spend your life trying to eradicate this.

The last few days have been the most painful days of my life, even more so than the murder of Jarvis, my foster son.

For years I have had to deal with media that have sought to define me and often times put me into their box or stereotype.

But that was the cost of being a public figure and for fighting in public battles. But this was a new level, when the world is meeting you for the first time from a dramatization in a sermon that I felt was in the sacredness of a sanctuary, among people who know me and then find a “Youtube” that in no way defines the sermon or the message that I preached, nor the person or pastor that I am. It is painful and shattering.

It is painful that as a result of this video over 3,000 email of hate, threats, and name calling, who go so far as to ask you to kill yourself or take your life, greet you in less than 24 hours, and you are bombarded by mean hateful and racial name calling, yes, it is very painful.

It is also grieving to me when a 1.5 minute “Youtube” video becomes the headlines across the world of papers and news stations, while the tragedy and death of earthquakes, cyclones, and tornadoes that have taken lives of people around this world, while the killing of our children across the country and here in Chicago, and the easy access to guns have become stories on page 18 and 19, and while people are at my front door, looking for food to eat or gas to get to work, indeed that grieves me.

Brothers and sisters, racism is an explosive and sensitive sin in our world and it is against the command to love, and against the God of love.

I said on Thursday, I apologize for words that I chose. I apologize for my dramatization that was for many who do not know me, simply typical dramatics I often use in sermons.

I apologize for anyone who was offended and who thought it to be mockery, that was not my intent, nor my heart.

For whatever damage that was caused to any human being and for any offense felt, especially to any of the candidates or their families, I am deeply sorry and I pray that my apology will be accepted even by those who say they won’t accept it.

I am neither a racist nor a sexist. I am constrained by this great Gospel that I have been called to preach, to be an agent of reconciliation, as well as a truth teller.

However - we must, if we are to move forward and become who God has called us to be as a human family, we must be willing to have an honest and open discussion on race and justice, and it must be on the equal ground at the foot of Calvary.

We have as a Country done many great things, but we will never become a great Country until justice flows like a river and righteousness like a mighty stream, for each and every human life.

As for what is next, I ask that you wrap me in prayer - I don’t know.

I ask that you pray, that I still might be a voice of truth, in season and out of season, and that I might have the courage to bear whatever wounds that may cost.

As for my defining - Dr. King, my mentor said, that he only wanted to be remembered as a Drum Major for Justice and indeed that is my only hope, and that is what I have tried to do since that afternoon in Marquette Park.

Hate me if you will. Hate my imperfect presentation. Hate my imperfect dramatization. Hate my imperfect articulation. I have never presumed to be anything, but imperfect, but I pray I can still beat the drum of justice, even if sometimes I am off beat.

Thank you.

---

ETA: If you want to learn more about Rev. Pfleger's church and ministry, you can visit the St. Sabina website.

[ 02 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

Since 1981, Pfleger has been pastor of the mostly African American Faith Community of Saint Sabina, a Roman Catholic Church in Chicago's Auburn Gresham neighborhood. When he was appointed to his present position, at the age of 31, he became the youngest pastor in the Chicago archdiocese.[1] His parishioners have affectionately referred to him as a "blue-eyed black soul". Under Pfleger's leadership, Saint Sabina has established an Employment Resource Center, a Social Service Center, and also an Elders home. ...

Pfleger's social activism has brought him attention throughout Chicago and beyond. He has often collaborated and associated with African American religious, political and social activists such as Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright, Joseph Lowery, Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Louis Farrakhan. ...

In 2007, Father Pfleger and the faith community of Saint Sabina erected twenty billboards across Chicago with the words "Stop Listening To Trash", followed by a list of ten "disrespectful rappers". Pfleger said in a press release, "If we are going to end the violence and disrespect of women, we must fight every form of negativity, including the music industry." He explained to WMAQ-TV's Alex Perez, "When you disrespect women and you continue to demean a community or race by names and by language, that's unacceptable. . . . We can kill with our words."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
Now, Obama has resigned from his church altogether.

---

Does this mean that Obama and all those missing from church pews in kind have renounced their faith?