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Topic: Military to Report Marines Killed Iraqi Civilians
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josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938
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posted 27 May 2006 06:01 AM
quote: Witnesses to the slaying of 24 Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines in the western town of Haditha say the Americans shot men, women and children at close range in retaliation for the death of a Marine lance corporal in a roadside bombing.Aws Fahmi, a Haditha resident who said he watched and listened from his home as Marines went from house to house killing members of three families, recalled hearing his neighbor across the street, Younis Salim Khafif, plead in English for his life and the lives of his family members. "I heard Younis speaking to the Americans, saying: 'I am a friend. I am good,' " Fahmi said. "But they killed him, and his wife and daughters." The 24 Iraqi civilians killed on Nov. 19 included children and the women who were trying to shield them, witnesses told a Washington Post special correspondent in Haditha this week and U.S. investigators said in Washington. The girls killed inside Khafif's house were ages 14, 10, 5, 3 and 1, according to death certificates
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002
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siren
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7470
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posted 27 May 2006 01:21 PM
I would assume the highlighting of American soldier's medals was for domestic consumption.So, along the lines of what unionist is suggesting, Americans might feel compelled to say something like, "I support our troops, BUT...". I caught the mis-pronunciation of Abu Ghraib from Commander in Chief Smirky McFuckUp during the so-called "mistakes I may have made" segment of the Blair/Bush interview. If he was so dang nab upset for the people tortured there, he might have taken the time to learn to pronounce the prison name properly. He also looked out into the audience directly after and smirked broadly. I don't know why.
From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 28 May 2006 03:44 PM
quote: With soldiers running amok, slaughtering indiscriminately, as they did here, one wonders whether recruitment personnel have visited U.S. prisons to target pathologically warped specimens for enlistment.
Apparently, you haven't heard of the "banality of evil". It is a certainty that events like this occur in war, because of the incredible pressure which builds up as the troops see their buddies' heads blown off. I have no doubt there were similar instances, not only during the Vietnam War, and the Korean War (there was recently evidence on a mass murder by GIs back in 1950 or so) and World War II. That is one good reason why war has to be resorted to only for the most compelling of reasons, such as self-defence. When you get an unjustified war, such as Iraq, killings like this are both criminal, and AVOIDABLE.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938
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posted 02 June 2006 05:57 AM
quote: Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki lashed out at the American military on Thursday, denouncing what he characterized as habitual attacks by troops against Iraqi civilians.As outrage over reports that American marines killed 24 Iraqis in the town of Haditha last year continued to shake the new government, the country's senior leaders said that they would demand that American officials turn over their investigative files on the killings and that the Iraqi government would conduct its own inquiry. In his comments, Mr. Maliki said violence against civilians had become a "daily phenomenon" by many troops in the American-led coalition who "do not respect the Iraqi people." "They crush them with their vehicles and kill them just on suspicion," he said. "This is completely unacceptable."
http://tinyurl.com/o966y
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 02 June 2006 02:32 PM
Posted by AE: quote: The massacre in Haditha is barely registering on the American consciousness. We're comfortably numb to it all now.
The same was likely the case when the My Lai massacre first came to light in the Vietnam era. These atrocities do have a corrosive effect on support for the war over time, not only because of the loss of Iraqi lives but also because of the dehumanizing impact on US soldiers.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911
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posted 03 June 2006 06:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by John K: Posted by AE: The same was likely the case when the My Lai massacre first came to light in the Vietnam era. These atrocities do have a corrosive effect on support for the war over time, not only because of the loss of Iraqi lives but also because of the dehumanizing impact on US soldiers.
Last night on Wolf Blitzer's CNN show one of the political experts said that no matter what happened, US politicians can not be seen to criticise the military in any way - its the kiss of political death. So we're back to the "few bad apples" rationale for all of this mayhem. Meanwhile the Iraqis say Hadithas happen every week - we just don't hear about them.
From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938
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posted 03 June 2006 08:22 PM
quote: AMERICA'S alliance with the new Iraqi government was plunged into major crisis last night as the country's prime minister and its people reacted with fury to the US military clearing its forces of killing civilians during operations against insurgents. Iraqi leaders vowed to press on with their own probe into one of the most notorious American raids against extremist fighters, in the town of Ishaqi, rejecting the US military's exoneration of its forces. Adnan al-Kazimi, an aide to prime minister Nuri al-Maliki, said the government would also demand an apology from the United States and compensation for the victims in several cases, including the alleged massacre in the town of Haditha last year.
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=824382006
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002
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B.L. Zeebub LLD
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6914
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posted 04 June 2006 01:57 AM
quote: Originally posted by jeff house:
Apparently, you haven't heard of the "banality of evil". It is a certainty that events like this occur in war, because of the incredible pressure which builds up as the troops see their buddies' heads blown off.
I have, and I assure you that Arendt's notion of the "banality of evil" had nothing to do with soldiers relieving pent-up frustrations. Arendt coined the phrase in her reports on the trial of Adolf Eichmann and it was an attempt to conceptualise a kind of milquetoast, bureaucratic "evil" free from the kind of direct, intentional malice that we usually associate with "evil" An "evil" that goes to the office, pushes a pen, and engages in largely "rational" pursuits, without the slightest moral twinge over the fact that the results of their bookkeeping is the deaths of countless people. In specific, she was trying to reconcile the horrific acts of Eichmann with his apparent mediocrity. He was no monster, yet his acts were monstrous. He was a master administrator and yet (in Arendt's words) "... the only specific characteristic one could detect in his past as well as in his behavior during the trial and the preceding police examination was something entirely negative: it was not stupidity but a curious, quite authentic inability to think." In other words, it was his thoughtlessness that made him "evil". In another way, she was attempting to conceptualise "evil" as it manifests itself in a rationalist, industrial and bureaucratic mode - i.e. modernity. Perhaps more importantly, she was trying to theorise the question (posed by the Enlightenment) of whether or not thinking in and of itself was a protection against evildoing. Anyway, likening this to the sort of commonplace atrocities carried out by standard grunts in warfare is a misapplication of the phrase. [ 04 June 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]
From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004
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Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885
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posted 17 October 2007 11:13 AM
Who could've guessed this outcome?Murderers to go free quote: "The evidence is contradictory, the forensic analysis is limited and almost all the witnesses have an obvious bias or prejudice," wrote investigating officer Lt. Col. Paul Ware. Ware was referring to the case against Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich charged with 17 counts of murder for his role as the squad leader in the Iraqi town of Haditha on Nov. 19, 2005. "The case against Staff Sgt. Wuterich that he committed murder is simply not strong enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt," Ware wrote. "What the evidence does point to is that Wuterich failed to exercise due care in his own action or in supervising his Marines."
1) There was video evidence. This is not mentioned in the ABC report (nor any MSM story outside of the BBC, from what I can tell). 2) Of course the witnesses are biased. Doesn't every witness provide a bias if they are describing the execution-style murder of friends and neighbours? 3) Shouldn't a legitimate trial actually have a prosecutor who's trying his darndest to win his case? Just wow.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001
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