I'm a 40-some woman, too plump for "junior" type clothes and too small for "plus" sizes... Think there must be a lot of people in that category, but even if you are slender, larger, older or younger I'd be interested in your feedback. I find there is very little out there that isn't either too matronly (polyester anything, sweaters with screen prints...) too, too young (the "mutton dressed as lamb" thing, and though I'm in good shape from exercise I don't have the elegant build to get away with that)...

And of course, there is the matter of money.

I do sometimes shop at church bazaars and garage sales but it takes a long time to find anything nice.

It's when you're about a size 14-16 or so. The smaller sized stores stop at a 13, or if you're lucky, a 15. The large size stores start at a 14-16. But the large size stores' idea of a 14 and the small size stores' idea of 14 are vastly different, and it sucks when you're in between those two sizes. That's where I was when I lost weight.

But since you're not thinking about teeny-bopper clothes anyhow, and you want more "grown up" but not look like you're ancient, there are a couple of places that I liked when I was 24 and in the same size area as you. Unfortunately this means I have to be a corporate whore for a moment, but oh well.

First, I found that Northern stores were pretty good, because they generally go to a size 18, or if you're really, really lucky, a 20. Now, of course, their idea of a 16 or 18 sure isn't the same idea of a 16-18 that Addition Elle has in mind. But still, I find that smaller-size stores that go up to 18 or 20 are good because it gets you over that size 13-16 breaking point between big and small clothing stores. Northern Experience (I think that's the one where they have career wear) is a nice place for women who want casual to work type wear, the clothes are not old-ladyish, they are tailored, you're not paying Jones New York prices, and they aren't teen-faddy and sure to be out of style next week.

Another place that I found good for getting half decent clothes of all types - career, casual, etc. - without spending a small fortune, is Sears. They have pretty dresses (if you like dresses) that are suitable for an office job in the $50-75 range last I checked, which is pretty good for a half-decent dress. They also, of course, have casuals, separates, you name it. And I think their smaller sizes stop at about 16 or sometimes, if you're lucky, even an 18, so it gets you over that 14-16 hump. Maybe. Problem is, if you're around that size 16-18 hump, then sometimes you're stuck in between their large size lines and their small size lines. And the doubly nasty problem with that is, some of their small size styles from their really nice brands don't continue into the larger sizes brands. There's nothing I hated more than to go and see a gorgeous pair of pants in a size 15, have the line end there, and then when I search for something similar in the large size line, to find that the size 16 and up pants are all elasticized on the wastebands, made of ickier material, made boxy and untailored, etc. But I think Sears is doing a lot better in that respect these days, because they're trying to attract the crowd who wants to see "the softer side of Sears".

I'm kind of in a size/shape flux right now, having had my second baby a little over a year ago. I'm still chunkier around the middle than I used to be, so what used to be flattering is not always so good now, and what cuts used to fit well are just so-so in a lot of cases.

This isn't helped by the fact that I've always had kind of an atypical build, so it's hard to shop inexpensively. I can't shop at Sears, all the sleeves and inseams are about 1.5 to 2 inches too short. Many women's jeans are cut too high in the waist (band sits on my ribs) and too wide at the lower hip. What often fits in the shoulder gapes at the underarm...

In some places, measurements are used as sizing. But in North America, we've had numbered sizes.

Now, as a young gal, we only got size 5 and up. Being very tiny, women's clothes were too big and girls' clothes were too short and too wide. I was delighted to find size 3 clothes in the States when our family went there on vacation.

So anyway, as I grew, I started wearing size 5/6... This has steadily gone down, but my actual measurements remained the same. Since my late teens, my clothing size has gone as low as a 1/2, with no appreciable change in weight or measurement. In my mother's day, she had about the same measurements as me, and wore a size 8 dress. I have a couple of her vintage outfits, and they were the same kind of fit as my size 2s.

Now, currently, I'm about 2-3" bigger around in all parts of my body than when I started wearing size 5/6, but what fits me is 3/4... (Note here that I am in no way bitching about gaining weight or complaining about clothing size. And please don't hate me for being small -- it wasn't by design!)

They've been steadily lowering dress/clothing sizes for women because as the boomers age, they want to be able to wear the same "number"... It's actually been proven that women feel better and are more likely to buy something that is a smaller size number, even if the cut is the same size. It's all a marketing ploy.

There you have it. The mystery of women's sizing debunked!

[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: Zoot Capri ]

He was huge, both weight and height, growing up, and by the time he was 1 year old he was wearing 3 year size clothing.

However, by about a year and a half to two years old, he was quite chubby too (that wore off quickly, once he got to that toddler-living-on-air-and-love-because-he-sure-ain't-eating-any-food stage, and luckily he now has his father's body, not mine) so we would have to buy clothes that were too long, but were fine around. The good news is that at least he had clothes that fit for a long, long time, because his waist size never changed - he just grew longer.

In answer to the mind gone blank, Canadian journalist Terry Poulton wrote "No Fat Chicks".

I do shop at Winners, but it is as you say, hit and miss, often there are only very small regular sizes and size 3x in plus sizes ... I find Winners is an excellent place to get gym wear such as leggings. Fortunately there are two I can bicycle to from my house.

In response to the first reply, there are nice clothes, even quite large, at Kaliyana (?) in Montreal and Ottawa. They have unusual clothes, kind of arty, and very pretty. The Montreal store is on St-Denis and the Ottawa store is on Sussex Drive by the Market. However, they aren't cheap.

I used to like Cotton Ginny, which fit everyone, but the quality is slipping. They have no stores any more in Quebec, which annoys me, I do shop there when I go to Ottawa.

Northern Reflections has nice clothes - I have never had any problem fitting into them - but I do find them old-ladyish and dowdy at times, with screen prints and too many loons.

I love dresses. I'm a curvy Mediterranean type, I look much better in dresses than trousers. But not corporate-type dresses, I don't have to dress that way often, except for very corporate interpreting gigs.

Of course, even if it's quite a big chain, we don't have one here.

I used to buy some business clothes at Fairweather, but I haven't needed conservative-looking biz wear for a while. Our industry tends to go up-casual, slightly funky.

I find this a diffucult task, as most clothes today are designed for women with small chests. I do NOT fall into this category. I am also short, and fall into the 16-18 size range. So as you can see, my shopping trips might take a while.

However, I have found that a combination of stores works best. I like Sears, but find that the clothes in the catalogue are more to my liking than that of the stores. Cotton Ginny has become one of my favorite haunts. I love the idea that in "thier" pants - I wear a size 14. Plus they have petite sizes which eliminate me cutting miles of fabric off the bottoms of pants. Reitmans has gotten better with not so old lady looks.

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Clothes shopping. One of the few reasons I love being male. I just go to www.sears.ca, find my size, and place an order. The clothes always fit.

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Long, lanky, shortish in body with long arms and legs, tend to carry low percentage of body fat = Ectomorph.

Short, stocky, long in body, short in limbs, tends to carry a higher percentage of body fat = Endomorph.

In between the two = Mesomorph.

Women's business wear to me is a lot more complicated and as someone who has just left university and been in the work world for nearly a year now, I still haven't figured it out.

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Short skirts are good in theory, but there is an unpleasant side effect for those of us who are not a size 6: thigh rub.

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