Canada to keep watch on Russia's Arctic activities
Andrew Mayeda, Canwest News Service
Published: Tuesday, August 19, 2008

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IQALUIT - Canada will be keeping closer watch on Russian activities in the Arctic following the invasion of Georgia, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Tuesday, adding that Ottawa appears to have entered a "new era" of relations with Moscow.

"We're obviously very concerned about much of what Russia has been doing lately," MacKay said after launching Operation Nanook, a military-led Arctic sovereignty exercise.

"When we see a Russian bear approaching Canadian air space, we meet them with an F-18," said MacKay, referring to Arctic patrol flights by Russian bombers. "We remind them that this is Canadian air space, that this is Canadian sovereign air space, and they turn back. And we are going to continue to do that, to demonstrate that we are watching closely their activities here."

MacKay's comments came as NATO allies issued a joint statement saying that relations with Russia could not remain "business as usual."

Led by the United States, Western countries have been putting pressure on Russia to honour a French-brokered ceasefire deal under which both sides would withdraw to the positions they held before fighting started.

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This is frightening, the groundwork to war seems to be getting laid.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Canada under Harper is a puppet, Sven. What would Bush tell Harper to say?

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Let's say the NDP wins control of the federal government.

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Originally posted by Sven:
What would Canada do if Russia were to infringe on Canadian sovereignty?

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Originally posted by Fidel:
my GOD! The redcoats are coming

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Originally posted by Sven:
Regardless of who is in charge, particularly if Canada pulls out of NATO, etc., Canada would probably do nothing.

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No Sven, we would duck and roll. Or is it duck and cover? I forget now. We only ever had the secret Diefenbunkers east and west of Ottawa. And my small hometown in N. Ontario was one of those condidered to be expendible - Bomarc missile bait even - for so many years of cold war.

So in answer to your thoughtful question, if we could just re-arm those old Bomarcs along the DEW line, in all likelihood we would incinerate ourselves up here. I know it only sounds half MAD, but we're crazy Canucks not all the way nuts.

[ 20 August 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by Fidel:

No Sven, we would duck and roll. Or is it duck and cover? I forget now. We only ever had the secret Diefenbunkers east and west of Ottawa. And my small hometown in N. Ontario was one of those condidered to be expendible - Bomarc missile bait even - for so many years of cold war.

So in answer to your thoughtful question, if we could just re-arm those old Bomarcs along the DEW line, in all likelihood we would incinerate ourselves up here. I know it sounds only half MAD, but we're crazy Canucks not all the way nuts.

[ 20 August 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by Sven:

Like I said, Canada wouldn't (and couldn't) do anything.

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Why would we want US missiles or even ABM's in Canada, Sven? Wouldn't just having them make bulls eyes of us frozen hosers where er they be?

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Originally posted by Sven:
What would Canada do if Russia were to infringe on Canadian sovereignty?

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Originally posted by Sven:
What would Canada do if Russia were to infringe on Canadian sovereignty?

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Russia is the only nation that is larger and more sparsely populated than Canada. Considering the number of confrontations Russia will invite in future with everyone from China to Georgia to Norway, Canada will be far down on the Russian sovereignty infringement list.

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Originally posted by Fidel:

Why would we want US missiles or even ABM's in Canada, Sven? Wouldn't just having them make bulls eyes of us frozen hosers where er they be?

You can have our Avro Aerospace industry, and most of our oil and gas for a song. But don't make us missile bait and all!

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Originally posted by jester:

Very kind of you to give Ontario's oil and gas away, Fidel, but the Yankees pay market price for ours.

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Originally posted by Webgear:
...while preparing out defences to the south to stop the inevitable American invasion.

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This is frightening, the groundwork to war seems to be getting laid.

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But not war with Canada and not war between the US and Russia. The US was laying the groundwork for a war a long time ago and successfully accomplished two of them itself and sparking other conflicts. As for testing Canadian airspace and a response time, isn't this a regular thing between US/NATO and Russia as it was between the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact?

In general I can't believe that anyone here seriously thinks that Russia would, or even has plans, to invade northern Canada.

I think the Minister's response is more for the US administration and grandstanding for Canadians leading into both by-elections and a general election year. They are positioning themselve to ask the leadership question. Who is the better leader in a more dangerous world, Harper or Dion? This is also why Harper wants to face Dion in an election rather than potentially facing Ignatieff.

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Originally posted by mimeguy:

But not war with Canada and not war between the US and Russia. The US was laying the groundwork for a war a long time ago and successfully accomplished two of them itself and sparking other conflicts. As for testing Canadian airspace and a response time, isn't this a regular thing between US/NATO and Russia as it was between the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact?

In general I can't believe that anyone here seriously thinks that Russia would, or even has plans, to invade northern Canada.

I think the Minister's response is more for the US administration and grandstanding for Canadians leading into both by-elections and a general election year. They are positioning themselve to ask the leadership question. Who is the better leader in a more dangerous world, Harper or Dion? This is also why Harper wants to face Dion in an election rather than potentially facing Ignatieff.

The US didn't stop the Soviet Union from invading countries before and I doubt it has plans to seriously interfere with one or two Russian invasions now. The issue will be, as always, which resource accessible countries are strategically expendible and which ones aren't. Exactly as it was after the second world war. If Georgia thinks that US/NATO is going to ride in on a Knight's horse to save them from Russia they should seriously think again. It's more likely that US/NATO would sacrifice Georgia and a couple of other countries in order to scare Poland and other former European Warsaw Pact nations into line.

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While a Russo-Canadian conflict is unlikely, I think a general atmosphere of widespread antagonism and military rearmament is a necessary and sufficient precursor for war to erupt somewhere.

Where did World War I start? Did it begin in a direct naval confrontation between the UK and Germany? No.

[ 21 August 2008: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

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Originally posted by Fidel:

As PeeWee Herman once said, that was so funny I forgot to laugh.

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When inevitable supply disruptions occur,where will Eastern Canada's fuel be obtained?

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Originally posted by jester:

When inevitable supply disruptions occur,where will Eastern Canada's fuel be obtained?

Where will Eastern Canada's place be in the lineup for foreign oil supply?

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Originally posted by Fidel:

I don't know. All of the OECD's oil producing countries have cut back on oil production except Canada. Maybe we'll start pilfering firewood from crown land and American-owned properties, and burning sticks of furniture.

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Maybe the Atlantic offshore and Quebec's lower St Lawrence will provide some supply but considering that most of Canada's hydrocarbon energy is located in Canada's west and Arctic, prudence dictates an all-Canadian route for security of supply.

Trusting international conventions in times of scarcity is shortsighted.

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Originally posted by Sven:

What might those defenses be?

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Motte and Bailey Castles and a very large palisade.

I would also place Martello towers in key spots.

[ 21 August 2008: Message edited by: Webgear ]

While the comment from McKay is neither insightful nor helpful, it goes beyond silly to suggest that Canada should pay no never mind.

The we have the bizarre comment wondering if there are any outstanding issues about Canadian sovreignty in the Arctic. The mind boggles.