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Author Topic: Russia says it will cut off Ukraine gas
Clog-boy
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posted 31 December 2005 08:34 PM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Russia says it will cut off Ukraine gas

MOSCOW/KIEV (Reuters) - Russia said on Sunday it would cut off gas supplies to Ukraine within hours over a price row that strikes at the heart of relations between the two ex- Soviet states and could affect deliveries to western Europe.

"The new contract contained everything suggested by Putin -- supplying gas to Ukraine in the first quarter at old prices and switching to European prices from the second quarter. Ukraine has turned our proposal down. It means the plan to cut supplies from...10 o'clock (0700 GMT) is still in force."

West European states, drawing 80 percent of their Russian deliveries from the same pipeline crossing Ukraine, have expressed concern.

Moscow seeks a rise in prices to $230 per 1,000 cubic metres from the current $50 -- a level that reflects Soviet-era subsidised rates. Ukraine agrees in principle but wants a transitional period and suggests the Kremlin approach mirrors disapproval of Kiev's pro-Western government...


"A Happy New year, and oh, no more gas for you guys..!"

[ 31 December 2005: Message edited by: Clog-boy ]


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 31 December 2005 10:19 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So now the Uke's just have to get used to western-style corruption with the addition of skyrocketing energy prices and seeing beggars in the streets as inequality rises and the family silverware is pawned-off for a song. The orange crush has turned into an orange crunch.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Clog-boy
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posted 01 January 2006 06:26 PM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Russia cuts gas supply to Ukraine, Europe at risk

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia cut gas supplies to Ukraine on Sunday in a dispute that appeared to hit deliveries to a wintry Europe just as Moscow takes over as chairman of the Group of Eight hoping to showcase its reliability as an energy source.

The switch-off already seemed to be making itself felt further west, with deliveries down in Hungary and Poland.

Ukraine's Naftogaz energy company accused Russia of brinkmanship that was jeopardizing Europe's supplies. European gas demand is near peak levels because of freezing weather.

Though Russia says it is purely a business dispute, the row has fed concern that the Kremlin is prepared to use its vast energy resources as a political weapon.

Ukraine's Western-leaning president, Viktor Yushchenko, has irked Moscow by trying to take his ex-Soviet state on Russia's western border into NATO and the European Union.

Ukrainian officials say that is why the Kremlin is punishing Ukraine with such a huge price increase while letting more Moscow-friendly ex-Soviet states such as Belarus pay far less.

[ 01 January 2006: Message edited by: Clog-boy ]


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 02 January 2006 06:15 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Huh. It's kinda sudden and hardball, Putin's style. But I can see their point in more general terms. You got this country next door, and you're selling them natural gas for a pittance. Then they're selling most of it (presumably for a bunch more if they're not idiots) to other people. That's a rather big favour you're doing them, rather a lot of money you're making them.
So now they want to join military alliances that are dangerous to you and generally act like the client state of your regional rivals. You should be continuing to do them big favours when you could be making money? Why, exactly?

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Clog-boy
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posted 02 January 2006 08:03 AM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't figure out why Russia feels so threatened by the Ukraine joining NATO. It's not as if NATO has any plans to attack, provoke or defy Russia.
I can understand that they want the Ukraine to start paying in full (especially if the Ukrainians are selling the gas to third parties), but you can't demand a 500% raise over such a short period.
And since the Ukraine is the only country addressed, I find it hard to believe it's just common trade instead of some payback for lost loyalty. I mean, why aren't any of the other Sovjet-states forced into a similar raise, eh..? They're still in a position to buy cheap gas and sell it with a interesting profit.
IMHO, Russia is only putting a stress on the relations between Europe, Russia and the Ukraine. A stress from which none of the countries have any profit.
And as long as Putin let's his wife spend 300 dollars each month (5 times the monthly pension in Russia!), on the hairdressing of her frickin' poodle, he shouldn't come talking to me bout saving up some money for Mother Russia....

(Ok, he's not actually talking to me, but y'all probably catch my drift... )


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
nister
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posted 02 January 2006 10:05 AM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Russia's dealings with others is not the Ukraine's, or anyone else's, business. It seems to me that the Ukraine has played chicken with the Russians, knowing that European customers await their consignments from the same source.
From: Barrie, On | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 02 January 2006 10:26 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A woman in Kyrghyzstan told me that country was forced to start paying market prices for natural gas at some point. In 2001, she said that people in the capital were burning furniture to stay warm.

The Yanks were smarter than Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien and hundreds of Ottawa lawyers who "negotiated" NAFTA though. Canada must guarantee the flow of natural gas and oil to the States at prices no higher than we'd sell for in our own country. If the stuff ever runs out, we'll have to ask the Yanks for permission to burn our own lumber to keep from freezing to death.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 04 January 2006 02:29 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Russia, Ukraine reach gas agreement

quote:
MOSCOW, Jan. 4 (UPI) -- Russia and Ukraine signed a five-year contract Wednesday on the delivery of Russian natural gas to Ukraine at a price of $230 for 1,000 cubic meters.

The deal ended three days of acrimony over pricing that caused Russia to cut off its supply to Ukraine, in turn causing shortages in Western Europe, CNN said.

Ukraine's new rate of $230 compares to $47 for Russian ally Belarus, and $110 for Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, which are all members of the European Union.

The news came from Russia's Gazprom Chief Executive Officer Alexei Miller after negotiations in Moscow with Naftogaz Ukrainy's chief, Olexiy Ivchenko, the Interfax news agency said.



From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
nister
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posted 04 January 2006 03:29 PM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Putin shoots, he scores!
From: Barrie, On | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 04 January 2006 06:07 PM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Ukraine's new rate of $230 compares to $47 for Russian ally Belarus, and $110 for Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, which are all members of the European Union.

So how's this for a business plan: Sell giant gas storage tanks to Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia so they can gas-up while the gassing's good before Putin decides it's their turn.


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 04 January 2006 06:58 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the Russian's might be considering more than just who their allies are. Belarus is a small country, smaller than the state of Kansas by comparison and is landlocked. Kiev is a little warmer than Vilnius, and Odessa is on the Black Sea. Let them pay according to ability perhaps. And thank goodness they don't have Enron to deal with.

Meanwhile, the capitalists are about to stick it to us
in Ontario for the privilege of staying warm this winter.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Red Albertan
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posted 04 January 2006 08:16 PM      Profile for Red Albertan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ukraine can't expect a preferential rate. They chose Capitalism, now let them deal with the consequences. After all, Canadians are paying $500 per 1000 cubic meters of Natural Gas for what's supposedly "OUR OWN" resource. Maybe we should buy from Russia, and save ourselves a bundle.
From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 04 January 2006 10:24 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yup, just a glance at my own gas bill says I'm paying 30 cents a cubic metre plus 2.8 cents/m3 for delivery to Union Gas plus 2.44 cents/m3 storage plus 8.5 cents/m3 for delivery to my hacienda plus a monthly surcharge of $14 smackers plus GS friggin T.

I think if Ukrainian's want to point to economic sabotage, they might want to examine the record of privatization and IMF policies in that country over the last nine or ten years. Economic saboteurs have done a number on that country ever since declaring independence. Up to 1980, Ukraine probably owned the most highly educated workforce in Eurasia. They've lost women to Russia and W.Europe for prostitution, and criminals have taken over certain areas of the economy and drug trafficking, similar to Albania. Ukraine now has one of the highest HIV infection rates of Eastern nations with poverty a growing problem.

So you're absolutly right, Red Albertan, natural gas rates that would be the envy of most Canadian provinces for what is our own stuff is really the least of their problems in Ukraine.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
jrootham
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posted 04 January 2006 11:04 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well the $230/1000 is a wholesale rate. Plus that's USD. It doesn't include the delivery charges (assuming the same kind of rate structure). So I think it's real close to what you are paying.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 05 January 2006 02:18 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As of January 1st, our rates in Ontario will jump 22 percent to 41.3 cents a cubic metre or to $375 USDN per 1000m3. That's not including storage charges, delivery to their sites, and finally, delivery charges to Ontario homes. Avg home heating costs are expected to rise by $257 this year, 38.5 percent more than the same time last year.

$230 per 1000m3 USDN is still a good deal for Ukraine by comparison regardless of what the newly privatized distribution companies decide to gouge them for in Kiev, Minsk etc. Keep in mind that we're being gouged for what is supposed to be our own stuff - the Uke's are dealing with Russia.

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

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