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... a radical authoritarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, totalitarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.

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It's by Henry Giroux, a USian academic who now teaches at McMaster University. He calls the new climate of authoritarianism in the USA "proto-fascism." Among the indications of creeping fascism he describes are:

• the cult of traditionalism and a reactionary modernism
• the ongoing corporatization of civil society and the diminishing of public space
• a culture of fear and a rampant, chauvinistic patriotism
• the attempt to control the mass media through government regulation, consolidated corporate ownership, or sympathetic media moguls and spokespeople
• the rise of Newspeak, designed to produce an impoverished vocabulary and elementary syntax, whose consequence is to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning
• collapse of the separation of church and state
• militarization of public space and of the social order
• the rise of neo-liberalism as the defining ideology of the current historical moment

Another writer, Chris Hedges, has said:

quote:

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I can't help but recall the words of my ethics
professor at Harvard Divinity School, Dr. James Luther Adams, who told us that when we were his age, and he was then close to eighty, we would all be fighting the "Christian fascists."

He gave us that warning twenty-five years ago, when Pat Robertson and other prominent evangelists began speaking of a new political religion that would direct its efforts at taking control of all major American institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government, so as to transform the United States into a global Christian empire. At the time, it was hard to take such fantastic rhetoric seriously. But fascism, Adams warned, would not return wearing swastikas and brown shirts. Its ideological inheritors would cloak themselves in the language of the Bible; they would come carrying crosses and chanting the Pledge of Allegiance. Source (.pdf)

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How about "21st Century Fascism" or something like that as a thread title with greater clarity?

[ 28 June 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
A really mellow, nurturing, centered kind of police state.

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"Big Brother feels your pain"

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
I had images of people being subjected to aromatherapy at gunpoint

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Strangely enough, follows seconds after a similar coincidence where I was reading about Roger Waters spraying "No Thought Control" on the Apartheid Wall in Israel, when "Another Brick in the Wall Part II" came on my MP3 shuffle.

WHOAH!

The reminds me of the animated sequence in the film, where the wall begins being built, destroying a church and replacing it with a satanic commodity producing neon monster, as well as cutting off playing babies where one transforms into a nazi brute that kills the other, or transforms roses into barbwired fences.

edited to add: Someone's gotta post it, so it might as well be me:

"California Uber Alles"

I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president...

Carter Power will soon go away
I will be Fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school!

[Chorus:]
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California

[ 03 July 2006: Message edited by: Jacob Two-Two ]

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It's not an emotional thing for him as it is for them.

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Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
I said he was a different kind of fascist, and probably less of one for it. I didn't mean he had no fascist tendencies.

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What do you think of Hannah Arendt's observations about fascism vis a vis Adolph Eichmann's "banality"? Is it possible that fascism requires a kind of non-emotionality; a heartless participation without any great furvour, AND absent critical reasoning. While I think the kind of violence and extreme emotionality of, say, the Brownshirts was necessary to prove the "authenticity" of the Nazi movement to the masses, the masses themselves largely remained as passive bystanders; mere objects of manipulation, not fervent participants. Even their participation in the various organs of fascist ideology (clubs, parades, education) is dictated by social conformity more than the rule-breaking/making uberviolence of the core (corps?) of the fascist movement.

As we move into techno-fascism, this may become even more so, for what becomes key is the authority of media spectacles, of the personality cult of leaders, all of which can be beamed into our living rooms while we snack away on chips and dip. What is necessary is that we feel like we are participating emotionally, but without really participating. We all got to play Armchair General with the boys on CNN during Shock and Awe, didn't we? We had maps, greasepen arrows, efficient terminology. The similarity of the coverage to the prep show for Monday Night Football was astounding, and no coincidence. In the end we "participate" without effecting anything, and fully-titillated, paradoxically are fully politicised while being completely disconnected from any real political action.

And wasn't that the goal of Fascism? To mobilise the masses to produce and obey and leave the decisions to the great, all-powerful leaders?

[ 04 July 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

There's the other thing, the stage managing of elections where the illusion of choice is generated, but when push comes to shove, the big guns come out to either demonize the "wrong" side or make sure the vote count goes a certain way.

This low-intensity democracy keeps people under control better than outright dictatorships, thus the necessary illusion of having a choice every four or six years on how the government is run.

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.


4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml

5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.


6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26


7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.html

8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm


10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm

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"No replastering, the structure is rotten." -- Slogan of French student protestors in 1968

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"the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.”
-- Richard Nixon in "Real Peace," 1983

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i would argue that any adverb that softens the mean-ness of America circa 2006 (New Age Fascism might be an example), is not descriptive.

American style Fascism - Hitler with Nukes, Mussolini with a very, very fast digital army.

if you're going to add a modifier (proto, new age, whatever), i would say, add a modifier that conveys the power and mean-ness and deception of modern day American Fascism -
1. "Great White Fascism with a Cloaking Device"
2. Carcharadon Carcharias Fascism (Latin Name for a great white)
3. Cyber Turbo Nuclear Fascism

or, since the family has been involved in war profiteering in WW1, and WW2, and whatever wars are called these days,
Bu$h Fascism.

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the rise of Newspeak, designed to produce an impoverished vocabulary and elementary syntax, whose consequence is to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning

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omg u r so rite i totaly never thought dat!

quote:

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Originally posted by otter:
Does anyone think that the Harpie clan is any less a fascist wannabe than Bushwhackers?

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Unlike Islamo-fascism, Energo-fascism will, in time, affect nearly every person on the planet. Either we will be compelled to participate in or finance foreign wars to secure vital supplies of energy, such as the current conflict in Iraq; or we will be at the mercy of those who control the energy spigot, like the customers of the Russian energy juggernaut Gazprom in Ukraine, Belarus, and Georgia; or sooner or later we may find ourselves under constant state surveillance, lest we consume more than our allotted share of fuel or engage in illicit energy transactions. This is not simply some future dystopian nightmare, but a potentially all-encompassing reality whose basic features, largely unnoticed, are developing today.

These include:

• The transformation of the U.S. military into a global oil protection service whose primary mission is to defend America's overseas sources of oil and natural gas, while patrolling the world's major pipelines and supply routes.
  
• The transformation of Russia into an energy superpower with control over Eurasia's largest supplies of oil and natural gas and the resolve to convert these assets into ever increasing political influence over neighboring states.
  
• A ruthless scramble among the great powers for the remaining oil, natural gas, and uranium reserves of Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, and Asia, accompanied by recurring military interventions, the constant installation and replacement of client regimes, systemic corruption and repression, and the continued impoverishment of the great majority of those who have the misfortune to inhabit such energy-rich regions.
  
• Increased state intrusion into, and surveillance of, public and private life as reliance on nuclear power grows, bringing with it an increased threat of sabotage, accident, and the diversion of fissionable materials into the hands of illicit nuclear proliferators.

Together, these and related phenomena constitute the basic characteristics of an emerging global Energo-fascism. Disparate as they may seem, they all share a common feature: increasing state involvement in the procurement, transportation, and allocation of energy supplies, accompanied by a greater inclination to employ force against those who resist the state's priorities in these areas. As in classical twentieth century fascism, the state will assume ever greater control over all aspects of public and private life in pursuit of what is said to be an essential national interest: the acquisition of sufficient energy to keep the economy functioning and public services (including the military) running.

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
I misunderstood the thread title. When I heard "New Age Fascism" I had images of people being subjected to aromatherapy at gunpoint and Windham Hill music arranged for military bands.

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Fascism, with iPods & interesting toys like Intel Dual core computers to distract us from ... more important things.

hyper-consumer Fascism ? Fascism with Walmart, Amazon, & Home Depot ?

either way, if a coup d-etat is about equivalent to a stolen election, we've had 2 of those in the last 7 years, and we're not exactly being neighborly in Iraq.

Dumont takes aim at minorities

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The leader of l'Action démocratique du Québec says Quebec should quit bending over backwards to accommodate minorities.

“We must make gestures which reinforce our national identity and protect those values which are so invaluable to us,” he wrote.

Mr. Dumont said that reports of recent compromises granted to ethnic or religious groups poses a greater threat to so-called old stock Quebeckers.

Mr. Dumont's letter comes at a time when a Montreal newspaper published a survey suggesting three Quebeckers out of five acknowledged racist feelings toward members of ethnic groups.

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quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
I highly recommend a book called; Against the New Authoritarianism.

It's by Henry Giroux, a USian academic who now teaches at McMaster University. He calls the new climate of authoritarianism in the USA "proto-fascism." Among the indications of creeping fascism he describes are:

• the cult of traditionalism and a reactionary modernism
• the ongoing corporatization of civil society and the diminishing of public space
• a culture of fear and a rampant, chauvinistic patriotism
• the attempt to control the mass media through government regulation, consolidated corporate ownership, or sympathetic media moguls and spokespeople
• the rise of Newspeak, designed to produce an impoverished vocabulary and elementary syntax, whose consequence is to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning
• collapse of the separation of church and state
• militarization of public space and of the social order
• the rise of neo-liberalism as the defining ideology of the current historical moment

Unfortunately, reading the book will leave you permanently depressed.

---

I truly believe this is coming into Canada very quickly for a variety of reasons, but the main one of course being Harper's government. However, they seem to be moving on a lot of re-writing of Canadian history that is alarming in its implications. I have linked you to there too.

Our corporate elite in Canada not only want access to American markets through deals like NAFTA, they want Canada to become America in various ways, from less stringent food and drug rules to private health care to weakening labour laws and social programs etc. In fact, the two old line parties have done quite a hatchet job on our social programs as it is now. And, they are for selling off rights and outright controlling interest of our valuable natural resources and crown assets to foreign control. The liquidation of corporate Canada and natural wealth has been happening at a frenzied pace and with Canada's banks bankrolling a fire sale that continues today.

Bank of Nova Scotia CEO Peter Godsoe said in 1999, "We're losing a large part of our country to foreign takeovers. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's a bad thing, but what is interesting is that there's no debate on it." -- The Globe and Mail, 1999

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Historically, fascism involved a generalized police state, with no independent judiciary, no rights for accused persons, and no effective right to a lawyer.

That was true of Germany, Italy, and Spain, and also of clerical fascism in Portugal and Argentina.

Secondly, fascism required a MOVEMENT which operated outside of the normal state structures. Both the brownshirts and the blackshirts were used to foment violence against opponents of the regime and, of course, racial minorities.

While this feature was less pronounced in Spain and Portugal (Franco dismantled the Falange, for example), these militias did play an important role in discouraging opposition in the regimes' early days.

Finally, all fascist moments have an ideology which professes adulation for the Leader, and encourages submission to his will. Democracy and the opinions of individual citizens are given no value, while the "masses" appear in rallies only to celebrate the regime. In fascist countries, women are subordinated because the ideology requires that males dominate.

None of these features are remotely present in Canada.

While some of these features were present, and are present, in communist states, the latter necessarily have an ideology which promises equality among human beings, and brotherhood between races and ethnic groups. Fascism is directly contrary to this, because the ideal for which it was created is inequality and subordination, as well as racial superiority.

Millions of human beings have died around the world as a result of pox Americana.

And some of Uncle Sam's proxy colonials have actually harbored Nazi war criminals as well as our own two nations being bastions for retired war criminals of all kinds. See the Duschene Inquiry, or read David Matas' book, Justice Delayed/Denied.

Canada is a weak colony of the most powerful fascist plutocracy in the history of the world. Canada is a repository of natural wealth for corporate America to raid at will. No other country in fascist history spends as much on death and destruction than the Uncle Sam does and with our own military industrial complex feeding the Pentagon and its sub-contractors with sophisticated parts for weapons under the radar of Ottawa's federal accounting, and we've even aided and abetted the shadow government's overthrow of a democratically-elected leader in Haiti in recent times.

Project for the Old American Century: 14 Points of Fascism

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

That is because they are different.

Therefore, applying the word for one kind of system to another, different system, is simply loose thinking.

If you don't like the United States, say so.

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Originally posted by jeff house:
If you don't like the United States, say so.

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I think a lot of American citizens are likeable, and a lot of them have expressed great dislike for the Republican Party cabal, the shadow government as a permanent feature of the system, and the fact that various cosmetic goverments elected in the recent past have been unable to pursue anything other than a neo-Liberal right-wing agenda since Ronald Reagan. And Ottawa itself is being prodded by CCCE(BCNI) and right-wing think tank policies on economy and coinciding with American imperialism as an overall guiding geopolitical force.

quote:

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Don't say it's a communist state, or a hereditary kingdom, or a fascist state, unless it exhibits the defining characteristics of those entities.

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The American constitution and government was an effort to avoid power mongering by one person, ie. European-Asian monarchs and dictators. America was also an effort to create a government elected by and responsible to a people's agenda, and not a corporate agenda and Wall Street cabal. It's clear that they've failed, or rather those noble goals were subverted by what has to be the largest concentration of wealth in the hands of a few people in the history of the world. They don't have democracy, and neither do we. It's a grand illusion. Franco once said something about fascism being entertaining, a big show. Can't remember his exact words, but I think it's true of North American fascism today.

Dictator Central

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Neither Canada nor the United States are fascist nations.

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You're correct they currently are not, however looking at the social political developments historically of Mussolini's fascism in Italy and then Hitler's modified version in Germany, one can see similarities arising.

quote:

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Historically, fascism involved a generalized police state, with no independent judiciary, no rights for accused persons, and no effective right to a lawyer. That was true of Germany, Italy, and Spain, and also of clerical fascism in Portugal and Argentina.

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Quite frankly Jeff, I perceive this as an occupational bias opinion, as opposed to accurate accounting of what defines or denotes fascism. Those riders have been present in any form of totalitarian government throughout history from theocracy to monarchies and not exclusive to fascism. Hell, even Cicero decried the absence of those things in the Roman Republic.

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Secondly, fascism required a MOVEMENT which operated outside of the normal state structures. Both the brownshirts and the blackshirts were used to foment violence against opponents of the regime and, of course, racial minorities.

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Any social change requires a movement outside normal state structure, and the early stages of any movement does not first start with violence or formenting violence. It starts with the thought to change and then expands. In fact, Mussolini did NOT encompass discrimination against minorities, he adopted that later to keep Hitler happy.

In his "Doctrine on Fascism" Mussolini stated:

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Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the "right", a Fascist century

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So, the fascist movement can be seen in part, as a backlash to socialism, liberalism and democracy, and most certainly we are seeing that in today’s USA and Canada. Indeed Mussolini was at first a socialist, and rejected this and eventually he targeted his early compatriots in socialism. One can see examples of that type of reversal phenomena today, the most notable example being the renowned former socialist Seymour Lipset. Who thank God just died. Moreover, I would say Lipset’s later works perhaps followed the right wing thinking of Mussolini.

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Finally, all fascist moments have an ideology which professes adulation for the Leader, and encourages submission to his will. Democracy and the opinions of individual citizens are given no value, while the "masses" appear in rallies only to celebrate the regime. In fascist countries, women are subordinated because the ideology requires that males dominate.

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It is not reasonable, or accurate, to say fascist movements focus on a leader in their early stages. When dialogue was intense during the mid 1990's, between academics that studied fascism it was noted that the first focus was on nationalism and loathing of socialism and liberalism. The advent charismatic leader progresses the fascist totalitarian state faster and further perhaps.

Tis true that fascism requires female submission, but all totalitarian states do as well.

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None of these features are remotely present in Canada.

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By the in accurate parameters you are using perhaps not, but indeed by historical and academic parameters I suggest it is, even right down to wanting to make women submissive, or unempowered.

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While some of these features were present, and are present, in communist states, the latter necessarily have an ideology which promises equality among human beings, and brotherhood between races and ethnic groups. Fascism is directly contrary to this, because the ideal for which it was created is inequality and subordination, as well as racial superiority.

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Again racial superiority notions only entered into Mussolini's fascist state thinking after contact with Hitler. Moreover, both in the USA and Canada we are seeing a resurgence of racial superiority notions.

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While I do think that there are protofascist tendencies in the United States, such as the cult of the "Commander-in-Chief", there is still a long way to go before fascism arrives there.[/QB]

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No country in the history of the world has dedicated as much of its annual output on military.

No country in the history of the world has bombed 25 nations, or helped to put down populist people's movements to overthrow oppressive governments friendly to its own agenda in causing millions to to live in misery like the U.S.A. has.

No country but the U.S. has ever used the atomic bomb to murder hundreds of thousands of human beings.

No country in the world has threatened to incinerate non-nuclear countries with nukes, like North Korea, for daring to exist outside U.S. spere of geopolitical influence.

No country has led as many medieval sieges in the form of trade embargos on various countries in softening them up for carpet bombing in order to remove one of their former CIA stooges gone from bad to worse like the U.S. has.

No country in the world has a larger incarcerated population today, like the U.S, a country which incarcerates more black people than the most racist nation of the last century, South Afreeka.

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...Many concerned citizens and organizations -- the Apollo Alliance, the Rocky Mountain Institute, and the Worldwatch Institute, to name but a few -- are trying to develop sane, democratic responses to the problems brought about by energy depletion, instability in energy-producing areas, and global warming. Most government leaders, however, appear intent on addressing these problems through increased state controls and a greater reliance on the use of military force. Unless this tendency is resisted, Energo-fascism could be our future.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Neither Canada nor the United States are fascist nations.

[edit]

While I do think that there are protofascist tendencies in the United States, such as the cult of the "Commander-in-Chief", there is still a long way to go before fascism arrives there.

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Bush Seizes Control Over State Militias

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Over objections from all 50 governors, Congress in October changed the 200-year-old Insurrection Act to empower the hand of the president in future stateside emergencies. In a letter to Congress, the governors called the change "a dramatic expansion of federal authority during natural disasters that could cause confusion in the command-and-control of the National Guard and interfere with states' ability to respond to natural disasters within their borders."

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As we all know, the Communist Party called social democrats "social fascists" when that was politically convenient.

That line has been repudiated for many decades, but the absence of intellectual rigour about the definition allows the term to be used for anyone who one disagrees with.

Very probably, there are people who think that Cuba is fascist, or China, or Russia, or North Korea. I don't, but remembering what fascism really was helps me to make the distinction.

Stalinism was a far more successful ideology, because it does not base right upon identity.

The international "reach" of fascism is severely hampered because, if Germans are a superior race, then they are superior to their next door neighbours, who tend to disagree.

Stalinism asserted the rights of the international working class; consequently there were potential allies everywhere. Favouring equality is politically easier than creating a hierarchy of nations with some in deeply subordinate relations to the fascist centre.

I dislike Stalinism because it pretended that the working class was identical to the Communist Party, and then that the Communist Party was the Leader of the Communist Party. So disagreeing with Stalin made one an enemy of socialism.

quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:

Very probably, there are people who think that Cuba is fascist, or China, or Russia, or North Korea. I don't, but remembering what fascism really was helps me to make the distinction.

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I think most historians would categorize Chiang Kai Shek and Fulgencio Batista as fascists. Mao and Fidel were generally referred to as socialists.

I think North Korea is a Stalinist-communist type of regime currently. Although there are people who would tell us that the hard line militant policies of N.K's communist government since Kim Jong-il were a direct result of the American military menace and occupation in the region. The more than 2000 students in Kwang Ju slaughtered in 1980 would have identified the S. Korean regime as patsies to a fascist military occupation of their country, I believe. We do know that the U.S. threatened then non-nuclear N.K. with nuclear incineration on several occasions, especially in the early 1950's and several occasions after that.

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Using the word fascist carefully allows us not to fall for simple minded manipulation.

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And it's been suggested that fascism in the U.S.A. began even before Prescott Bush and others were accused of funding the Nazi war effort and trading with the enemy. The Bush family has a long history of war-fiteering.

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I think most historians would categorize Chiang Kai Shek and Fulgencio Batista as fascists. Mao and Fidel were generally referred to as socialists.

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We're trying to rise above what people are "generally referred to", and to determine whether there might be a serious meaning to the term "fascist", other than "We don't like those guys."

You refer to Chiang Kai Shek as a potential fascist. He was, of course, supported for many years by Stalin as a "progressive bourgeois".

Then, when Japan invaded China, Chiang Kai Shek called THEM "fascist invaders".

The USSR from 1939 on, claimed that World War II was about defeating fascism and nazism. Imagine if they had known that one of the Big Four was himself a fascist!!

As these examples show, what is to be avoided is manipulation by terminology. I well recall when China, from one day to the next, went from calling the USSR "socialist" to "social imperialist." The actual reality of the USSR hadn't changed, just political expediency.

So, I try to insist on a core meaning to words. Otherwise, you have "democracy" in one party dictatorships, and "socialism" in military aristocracies like Burma.

quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:

You refer to Chiang Kai Shek as a potential fascist. He was, of course, supported for many years by Stalin as a "progressive bourgeois".

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I said he WAS a fascist. Chiang didn't spend ALL of the Sun family's wealth on himself. After fleeing the people's revolution under Mao, Chiang setup the world anti-communist league, which was said to have funded the Contras in Nicaragua among other anti-communist terrorist organizations in the past. WACL goes by another acronymn now.

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Then, when Japan invaded China, Chiang Kai Shek called THEM "fascist invaders".

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Yes, and at one point, "Generalissimo” Chiang Kai Shek took the advice of the Americans and resumed attacking Maoists in hopes of defeating them with a two-pronged attack. The Japanese were ruthless with the Chinese. There were concentration camps all over China during occupation by Japanese imperialists. The Anglo-American-backed Chiang represented corruption and deliberate mass murder. Anyone caught with traces of red dye or threads on their necks was executed by Chiang's KMT. Peasants who fell under the weight of gold and imperial booty they were carrying on their backs for the KMT as they fled China were executed on the spot.

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The USSR from 1939 on, claimed that World War II was about defeating fascism and nazism. Imagine if they had known that one of the Big Four was himself a fascist!!

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You can thank the Russian people and Red Army you weren't born into slavery or worse, Jeff. IBM had slave labour accounting all figured out for them with number coding. Yours truly might have been a number four, or was it five on the punch card system.

As for the rest of your rant on Stalinism, it's low conversation. Many older Russians still believe most countries to the west of them are fascist. It's there in their war museums accounting for the 27-30 million dead as a result of the Nazi war of annihilation against communism in Russia. When that war ended, and the fascist sieges on Leningrad, Stalingrad, Warsaw, Kracow, Belgrade, and Kiev were swept away, it was the beginning of the biggest victory against fascism in history. And then, after the Russians turned the tables on the corporate-sponsored fascist invaders, the race to Berlin was on.

Now, how bout we get back to discussing the unthinkable, one of the most spectacularly fascist nations of all time, and 36 of the last century's most brutal right-wing fascist dictatorships in recent history, propped up by various Uncle Sam shadow governments.

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So, I try to insist on a core meaning to words. Otherwise, you have "democracy" in one party dictatorships, and "socialism" in military aristocracies like Burma.

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Burma is a brutal anti-Marxist dictatorship and by no means socialist. The Burmese dictatorship is staunchly anti-communist. Trade unionists are given life-long prison sentences or executed. The Kuomintang and CIA helped to proliferate opium economy in Burmese Shan States since WWII and since the war to murder an idea in Viet Nam.

[ 19 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Or would you like to venture and opinion on my previous quesion, as follows:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:
But do you think there is any value in asserting the importance of the European ideological liniage of fascism, so much as to say that other forms of government, such as the religious oligarchy in Iran, might conform to a different mode of authoritarianism than that of fascism?

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Like his Nazi predecessor, Bush declared war on non-traditional families, sex, homosexuals, illegal immigrants (no amnesty for 10 million Mexicans) in order to mobilize his principal mass base of fundamentalists Christians.
....

The US version of fascism is in some ways quite distinct from its German predecessor: It buys votes with hundreds of millions of dollars in mass media propaganda; it does not coerce approval, it does not overtly terrorize the population, it simply sows paranoia of the "others". There are no mass organization and mass spectaculars to mesmerize the population; instead there is frivolity and banal lies to alienate voters and produce an abstention rate of over 50%. The next US President will be elected by less than 20% of the potential electorate, given 50% abstention, the exclusion of "illegal" immigrants (10 million) and former prisoners (4 million). If this exclusionary electoral process is not sufficient to ensure the appropriate outcome, there can be voter fraud, exclusion and judicial interference.

This is 'fascism lite' but it holds the potential for the other, heavy version. The former commander of the US invasion force in Iraq, General Tommy Frank (a close adviser to Bush) recently declared that if there is another "major attack" in the US, the Constitution should be suspended and martial law should be declared, and military tribunals established to try suspects. Bush's repeated defense of the "Patriot Act" echoes General Frank's overt fascist pronouncements. In other words, any regime-instigated provocation can shift the fragile balance to fascism.

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quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
The former commander of the US invasion force in Iraq, General Tommy Frank (a close adviser to Bush) recently declared that if there is another "major attack" in the US, the Constitution should be suspended and martial law should be declared, and military tribunals established to try suspects.

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I'm not exactly a fan of Tommy Franks but I believe this misrepresents the remarks in question. If it's a reference to the (in)famous Time Magazine piece, Wikipedia reports it thusly:

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Discussing the hypothetical dangers posed to the U.S. in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Franks said that “the worst thing that could happen” is if terrorists acquire and then use a biological, chemical or nuclear weapon that inflicts heavy casualties.

If that happens, Franks said, “... the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we’ve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy.”

Franks then offered “in a practical sense” what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack.

“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

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[ 14 February 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
James Petras

The US version of fascism is in some ways quite distinct from its German predecessor: It buys votes with hundreds of millions of dollars in mass media propaganda; it does not coerce approval, it does not overtly terrorize the population, it simply sows paranoia of the "others".

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to quote one of Prof. Carolyn Baker's students, "if my country did 9-11, then i don't have a country."

most Americans are scared Silly. unable to believe their own eyes or to formulate their own conclusions. trying to pretend that The Good Life we had somehow continues, even though our government has been hijacked, and those to whom we would normally look for leadership (the Democrats), provide very little of that.

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In Washington, I asked Ray McGovern, formerly a senior CIA officer, what he made of Norman Mailer's remark that America had entered a pre-fascist state. "I hope he's right," he replied, "because there are others saying we are already in a fascist mode. When you see who is controlling the means of production here, when you see who is controlling the newspapers and periodicals, and the TV stations, from which most Americans take their news, and when you see how the so-called war on terror is being conducted, you begin to understand where we are headed. It's quite something that the nuclear threat today should be seen first and foremost as coming from the United States of America and Great Britain."

McGovern was the author of the president's daily CIA intelligence brief. I interviewed him more than three years ago, and his prescient words are as striking today as Cockburn's revelation of Rumsfeld's secret life is illuminating. His description of fascism within a nominally free society recalls George Orwell's warning that totalitarianism does not require a totalitarian state.

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It only takes a few seconds. I think a lot of people might get some results that would make me nervous about the rise of fascist ideas (especially on talk radio and in corporate/political circles). Here's the test:

The F scale test

I'm a "whining rotter" and proud of it!

Here's an article in wikipedia describing the psychological tendencies of people pre-disposed to fascism:

Right-wing authoritarianism

Definitely worth a read as it is an excellent summary of the mentality in right wing ideologues.

[ 11 April 2007: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]

by

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On October 23rd of this year, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 passed 404 to 6 in the House. This bill is proposing an expansion of Homeland Security with the objective of spying on citizens whose political or religious beliefs might lead them to commit violent acts. And we are not referring to the attack of Megan Williams or the numerous police murders of non threatening civilians. No this is solely about spying on political dissidents whose politics were shaped through a critical analysis of US foreign or domestic policies….

Their definition of what defines radical and terrorism are very vague, and can be manipulated to serve several purposes. In the bill itself, it says homegrown terrorism means "the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence" by a native citizen of the United States. It is this definition that leaves so much of this bill’s purpose open to interpretation. Unfortunately, the interpretation by the same ole "powers that be" is the only one that really matters because it is they who will have the use of this bill at their disposal….

"Planned" or "threatened" use of violence is a vague term, and we have seen it used before. How many times have you heard of a cop beating, shooting, or killing an individual because in the officers opinion they "posed a threat" or were "planning" harm towards the officer? This situation is no different, yet now it decriminalizes police actions at a time when we are experiencing more police killings of unarmed civilians.

What is feared by the activist community is a general crack down on social justice activism and civil disobedience, or any dissent for that matter, because it now takes on a new and legal form…. In J. Edgar Hoover's time, this type of spying and repression was illegal and later became known as the Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO). Currently these and similar practices are legal in regards to non-citizens under the heading of the "Patriot Act." Did you really think that the government was only after those who sneak into the country to commit acts of violence?

To its defense it is claimed that this bill will not "violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents." It is also claimed that this bill will be racial, ethnically, and religiously neutral when carrying out its' study.… it is interesting that the criteria for members of this commission are individuals with expertise in "juvenile justice", "local law enforcement", and "Islam and other world religions."

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M. Spector:

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I highly recommend a book called Against the New Authoritarianism. (You can tell it's a good book, because Chapters/Indigo online doesn't even have it listed.)

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People are trying to call this new fascism, yet many of the pre-conditions were present in 1930s Germany so I don't think it's that new.

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Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
People are trying to call this new fascism, yet many of the pre-conditions were present in 1930s Germany...

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The fact that I hear these arguments in general conversation is also comforting to me. These things are not about to take us by surprise at least...

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-Look at the US debt.

-Over 50% of the American tax dollar goes to military expenditures.

-Observe the church-state fusion.

-See the targetting of a common enemy via often recited fear, faith and force slogans.

-War on terror (by using terror, but it's allright because they're on the side of the 'good' guys).

-War on drugs (which hypocritically excludes the most lethal & addictive drugs : alcohol, tobacco & pharmaceuticals)

-Rampant nationalism, and accusations of anti-Americanism towards those who criticize administration policy.

-Vast corporatism linked to and integrated with gov't.

-A corporate conglomerate media.

-Taser Inc.

-Tolerance of torture.

-Secretive foreign prisons.

-Highest domestic incareceration rate on earth.

-Institutionalized racism, and disproprtionate sentences for blacks & hispanics.

-Patriot Act.

-Steroidized Blackwater mercenaries getting paid double to triple normal military salaries, and enjoying corporate immunity to laws.

-90 billion dollars / yr. in corporate welfare.

-Double the tax rate on the middle class than on billionaires.

-A fraudulent 2-party monopoly.

-Lack of proportional representation.

-Pro-Bush Diebold corporation providing hackable e-voting machines.

Ahhhh, freedom and democracy, gotta love it.

[ 20 December 2007: Message edited by: Peppered Pothead ]