Oh, I get it. We're being "educated" that the use of nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the war in the Pacific whether it's true or not. And it looks like we're being treated to some "useful" reminders about Japanese atrocities in WW2 as well.

BBC - On this day for September 2

Here's a good one. "Allied" nations celebrate VJ Day.

"Allied" Nations celebrate VJ Day.

I guess the Russians and Mongolians weren't our allies [or Allies, which seems to be the preferred spelling.] in WW2. Seems to me they suffered a lot of casualties against the Nazis and Japan and so on for not being involved in the war on the same side as Canada and Britain and the USA. Pretty soon, if this shit keeps up, the battle of Stalingrad will be treated as a footnote to WW2 instead of as the first decisive defeat of the Nazis and a gigantic turning point in the whole Allied war effort. This stuff really chaps my ass.

[ 15 August 2005: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

[ 15 August 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]

VJ day is definitely September 2. And yet I heard, several times over the weekend, that celebrations of VJ Day occurred yesterday and the day before.

The timing is important because yesterday's date suggests an intimate connection to the dropping of the atomic bomb, whereas the actual timing (and much historical documentation, recently uncovered) suggests that the decision to surrender was a consequence of 1) The Soviet decision to enter the war against Japan, and 2) the atomic bomb.

Since our last thread on this, I have purchased and read the authoritative book on the topic, by Professor T. Hagesawa, called "Racing the Enemy".

The documentation that Hagesawa unearthed tended to show that the Emperor and other high Japanese officials were themselves more impressed by the attack on Japan by the Soviet Union, but that they tended to stress the "new and cruel" weapon, the bomb, when communicating with the Japanese people as a whole. Internal communications with the Japanese Army tend to refer to the Soviet attack as the reason to surrender.

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The most important document which Hagesawa refers to in his book is a secret US study done in July, 1945. There, the authors were required to come up with an estimate of U.S. combat deaths which could result from an invasion of the japanese homeland.

The official estimate was 40,000 US combat deaths. After the war, various American leaders said they dropped the bomb because the invasion would cause one million U.S soldiers to be killed.

quote:

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Yesterday, according to a wide variety of sources, was V-J Day. That would be "Victory over Japan Day". But Japan was still fighting in Manchuria until September [against the Soviets and Mongolians] and did not sign the unconditional surrender until September 2, 1945. Is history being re-written?

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quote:

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1945: Allied nations celebrate VJ Day
Japan has surrendered to the Allies after almost six years of war.
There is joy and celebration around the world and 15 August has been declared Victory in Japan day.

The end of war will be marked by two-day holidays in the UK, the USA and Australia.

After days of rumour and speculation, US President Harry S Truman broke the good news at a press conference at the White House at 1900 yesterday.

He said the Japanese Government had agreed to comply in full with the Potsdam declaration which demands the unconditional surrender of Japan.

Supreme Commander General Douglas MacArthur will receive the official Japanese surrender, arrangements for which are now under way.

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quote:

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Gopher: Supreme Commander General Douglas MacArthur will receive the official Japanese surrender, arrangements for which are now under way.

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One of those "arrangements" was the 23 day campaign in Manchuria against the [Japanese] Kwantung Army in which over 500,000 officers and men, including 148 generals, were taken prisoner. My understanding is that on or around August 15 Japan surrendered in some manner to the US; however, they continued to fight in Manchuria against non-US troops. That's hardly surrendering to the "Allies"; the most that can be claimed is that they surrendered to some Allies at the earlier date.

Apparently, some Allies are so much more important than others that the "others" don't seem to count as "Allies" at all. Maybe they were just ....allies?

[ 16 August 2005: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

In late July, well before the atomic bomb was dropped, Japan had sent peace feelers by way of Moscow, as the Soviet Union had a Friendship Treaty with Japan.

The Japanese were not aware that Stalin had promised to invade Japan at the request of the British and Americans at Yalta.

Obviously, those peace feelers went nowhere, as Stalin stood to gain territorially from the attack on Japan.

A first American demand for peace was structured to insure refusal by Japan. At that point, Truman knew he would have the atomic bomb, and so was less interested in Soviet help. That demand was crafted at the Potsdam Conference, and sent off without Soviet input.

Japan never refused that offer officially. Certain members of Japan's cabinet told the news media that the demand would be ignored, but the Cabinet itself never made any decision on it.

The first a-bomb was dropped August 6th.

The Soviets attacked August 8th.

The second atomic bomb was dropped August 9th.

On August 10th, the Japanese sent a message suggesting that the terms earlier provided might be acceptable, if certain alterations were made, most of which had to do with the status of the Emperor.

On August 15th, Emperor Hirohito accepted the renegotiated terms in a radio address.