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Author Topic: TTC washroom peepholes left open
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 December 2005 02:49 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remember the Jane Doe case in Toronto? Seems like the message didn't get through.

quote:
Public used as bait, transit union says
Sting operation caught peeping Toms
KEVIN MCGRAN
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

Three peepholes into the women's public washroom at the Eglinton subway station were kept open for at least six weeks while TTC special constables tried to catch the peeping Tom, the Star has learned.

The TTC and its union — Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 113 — are heading to arbitration on the matter in March, with the union accusing the TTC of violating the privacy of the women and children who used the washroom — including female staffers — by leaving the peepholes open for so long.

Toronto Star



From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
CHCMD
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10246

posted 16 December 2005 03:03 PM      Profile for CHCMD   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
asshats
From: 1 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 16 December 2005 03:13 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As I understand it, the holes were left in place and the room monitored to see if anyone came in to look through them.

When someone did, they were arrested.

If nobody else looked through the holes (if they had, they'd have been arrested too), I'm not sure I understand how it's a privacy violation, or how anyone was used as "bait". It's not like they were left open to one and all for six weeks.

What am I missing?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4270

posted 16 December 2005 11:41 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
asshat.
From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
kiwi_chick
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11388

posted 17 December 2005 04:08 PM      Profile for kiwi_chick        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
These guys are as useful as tits on bulls

[ 17 December 2005: Message edited by: kiwi_chick ]


From: ontario | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2092

posted 17 December 2005 04:16 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What if you were wandering by and wondered "what are these holes about?", and looked through out of curiosity. Would you be nabbed and arrested? Would they figure they'd solved the case? This doesn't sound very clever.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 17 December 2005 05:47 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How would you be "wandering" in a utility room?
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4270

posted 17 December 2005 06:03 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It doesn't matter that people weren't wandering by these holes all the time.

The utility room was monitored by a camera and the guys employees were arrested when they were caught on camera. In the meantime, the women using the washroom while they got their last peek were used as bait and their privacy was violated.

Do you understand now?


From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
freeThinker
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11348

posted 17 December 2005 06:05 PM      Profile for freeThinker        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How do you know that there was actually a woman in the stall at the very moment that a perp was looking through the hole?
From: CA | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4270

posted 17 December 2005 06:22 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't, and I couldn't know. But either could the people who set up the sting. And that is why the whole thing is unacceptable.
From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 17 December 2005 06:31 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fair enough.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 17 December 2005 06:46 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
How would you be "wandering" in a utility room?

quote:
Homer: Oh, here we are - the Utility Room.
Marge: This isn't very erotic. It's an actual utility room.
Homer: No, honey: it's a romantic fantasy. I imagine I'm the janitor and you're...the janitor's wife, who has to live with me in the utility room.

From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 18 December 2005 10:06 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, does anyone have an actual alternative method of catching the perpetrators they'd like to suggest?
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ferdzy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7758

posted 18 December 2005 10:49 AM      Profile for Ferdzy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder if it would have been possible to close off the peep-holes from inside the washroom, but leave them on the other side looking like they were still there?

That would have enabled the police to still do their stake-out without anyone's privacy being violated.


From: Small Town Ontario | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 19 December 2005 08:15 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
IANAL: In the UK that would probably left the CPS unable to prosecute, as they didn't catch them in the act of actually committing a crime.
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 19 December 2005 08:35 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I suppose they could have plugged up the holes to stop people from doing it at all anymore. And then maybe put cameras in the room to see if, once again, anyone replaces the holes.

That would also solve the problem J22 mentions.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8926

posted 19 December 2005 08:36 AM      Profile for Fed        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ferdzy wrote:

quote:
I wonder if it would have been possible to close off the peep-holes from inside the washroom, but leave them on the other side looking like they were still there?

Or better still, put up pictures of landscapes or something! Imagine:

"Hey man, come look through this peephole into the women's can."

"Uh, I can see the Rocky Mountains. Gee, the women's can is a lot bigger than I thought."


From: http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6640

posted 19 December 2005 11:54 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think if TTC security wanted to run a little sting operation by leaving the holes intact they should have also put an "out of service" sign on the door of the stall and bolted the door shut so that no one would actually have been at risk of having their privacy violated.

Anyway, this is part of a larger fight between the TTC union and TTC security (which is not part of the union) over whether or not TTC security should have any jurisdiction over TTC employees. The union says if an employee is suspected of criminal behaviour the police should be called in, not TTC security and that TTC security have been exceeding their authority and, at various times, harassing employees.

[ 19 December 2005: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 19 December 2005 11:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought of that too, Mycroft, but I doubt it would have worked - I'm sure word would have gotten around that the sign was there and it would either have been taken down, or they would have realized that sting was in the air.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6640

posted 19 December 2005 12:01 PM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The chances of success would probably have been less but it certainly would have been preferable to what they did. Anyway, I don't see why they couldn't have at least filled up the holes, put in a camera, and then nailed anyone who re-opened the holes with vandalism if that act alone was insufficient for a sex charge.
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged

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