[ 11 April 2006: Message edited by: John_D ]

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But recently it seems there's been an intense effort in commercials, from a number of different companies, to promote yoghurt as a woman's food. I first noticed when I got mildly embarassed when buying some at a supermarket, and couldn't figure out why until I got home and thought about it for a while. (Guess I deconstructed my way out of that one, eh?)

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Aw, c'mon, John_D: You have to tell us why and how you got mildly embarrassed. There's a story there: I can just tell. Tell tell tell.

Women live, of course, with a non-stop commercial onslaught on their self-image, particularly their physical self-image -- in other words, most women have to fight feelings of self-consciousness (at least) about their bodies. So any product like yoghurt -- healthy, low-fat, contains useful bacteria, etc -- can easily be spun to play on women's insecurities, although these days the low-fatness can probably be spun to play on everyone's insecurities.

[ 11 April 2006: Message edited by: John_D ]

Commercials for food have been like that since I can remember. "It's not a sandwich - it's a MANWICH!"

It's interesting what you had to say about yogurt, though. I have never thought of plain yogurt as a gendered thing (although low-fat flavoured yogurt is a different thing of course) because I was married to an Iranian for whom yogurt is a staple. "Real men eat yogurt" in Iran and other South Asian and Mediterranean countries.

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Originally posted by kurichina:
Eat the MEAT.[/URL]

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I have noticed that women are more likely to order salads and the like, whereas men are not as self-conscious about ordering the heavy entree.

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Originally posted by kurichina:
WARNING! Eating the carrots or the parsley will cause your testicles to retreat into your body cavity. Don't even chance it. Eat the MEAT.

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Oh man, I LOVE that web site!

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Advice all men should heed.

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Oh my!

Much to their chagrin, several guests exclaimed "But I make this all the time!"

And real yoghurt, while not as rich as sour cream, is not especially low-fat.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
I guess I'm sexist for the occasional feeling of self-consciousness when I order something at a restaurant that is more substantial than the more delicate "feminine" choices.

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i've felt that way too, on occasion. especially, the time i was out with 5 women, and everybody ordered a salad (it was huge and crammed with cheese), and i don't remember what i got, but it wasn't a salad. i felt a strange sort of guilt for (1) not coforming, and (2) not being feminine enough. i really don't like salads anyway; unless they're raw. hate salad dressing.

for one thing, when i have to spend more money than usual on a meal, i make sure its worth my money. salads are rarely ever worth their price at restaurants. so few substantially nutrituous vegetables, and so much lettuce and dressing. (i'm really big on the nutrition thing!)

for another, i quite like eating, and i am not obsessed with my figure that i avoid certain foods just because it is fattening. if i have a hankering for something, i'll go for it. who cares what anybody around me thinks. mostly, my food choices are based on health and nutrtion, i.e., am i getting enough iron, protein, vitamins, etc. calorie-counting is low on my list of priorities; so i think i'm fairly immune to buying into eating 'girlie-food' just because it's labelled that way. however, many of these low-fat products targeted for women so they can become/stay slim are often LOADED with a colossal amount of sugar (sometimes 3-4 kinds of sugars) and they are quite high in carbs. so, once again, we see the dishonest nature of advertising.

One thing I did notice when I moved to New York City: anywhere outside a brew pub, it seems to be considered unfeminine for women to drink beer. I first noticed this at a trendy Nolita bar when, not wanting to order a $17 mixed drink, I got a bottle of beer -- then noticed I was the only woman in the bar who wasn't drinking a vodka drink. I don't even like vodka! So now I limit my beer consumption to post-hockey dive bar visits (hey, once you're smelly and carrying a hockey bag, you're pretty much out of the femininity sweepstakes) and have learned to appreciate tequila drinks, caipirinhas and single-malt scotch (straight, no ice -- which, it turns out is also a "masculine" drink ).

Shortly thereafter, at a wedding in Winnipeg, I teased an American guy that American men drink girly drinks. He'd never heard of the concept of a girly drink. A couple of Canadian guys got in on the conversation and explained the rules: beer and scotch are manly drinks. All mixed drinks are girly, except gin & tonic and rye & ginger. The American guy argued in favour of the martini ("James Bond? Shaken, not stirred?") but the Canadian guys held fast: "Nope. Girly."

At work, there's a guy who eats granola and "svelte" (or some other goofy name) yogurt. No one actually says anything to him *cos he rides a motorbike and is tough* but I catch people giving him funny looks when he's eating yogurt- it comes from a container with an outline of a curvy woman. I do find it strange that the company would potentially alienate a good chunk of their consumers with such a label though.

I think that, atleast until recently, diet pop was considered to be a 'girl' thing. [rant] I drink diet cola sometimes on night shift, but with the debate about aspratame, I find that the guys have been giving me all sorts of advice about not drinking diet pop. That's nice... cos, like I don't know anything about what I eat, and I need grown-up men to tell me.[/rant]

I fricking hate it when plain, ordinary sneakers are automatically men's shoes. I don't know why it bugs me so much, it just does. I have wide feet, and sneakers are the best at accomodating that, so I usually get them... but I always end up going to men's shoe stores, where I typically don't get as much help as I do when I shop at women's shoe stores, or as my guy friends do when they shop for "guy" shoes.

About the drinks thing, I kind of think it's funny. I drink dark beer (stout or porter) most of the time, and I've found that most guys that I encounter won't touch the stuff. They like beer, but not *that* beer. I have gotten many suprised looks for saying that I like any beer, let alone dark beer, being a short little girl and all. I think that the mixed drinks being thought of as girly thing might be a product of the younger generations, because I've hung out with some older people who really don't get that at all. Also, I think caesars might be an exception.

As far as food goes, I just don't see there being any masculine or feminine foods. I realize that lots of low calorie stuff is pitched to women, but I just cannot imagine thinking of food as being gender-specific.

Cars are another product that I fail to see as gender-specific but I've been told that Mazda Miatas, for instance, are girly cars. Same goes for automatic transmissions.

[ 10 July 2005: Message edited by: EFA ]

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Originally posted by kurichina:
WARNING! Eating the carrots or the parsley will cause your testicles to retreat into your body cavity. Don't even chance it. Eat the MEAT.

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Around where we live, we can buy macho Middle Eastern yoghurt with no marketing but a Lebanese cedar or something stamped onto the big tub for a fraction of the price per gramme of the sweet chemical stuff. (Some of the extremely low-fat ones have very dodgy modified starch etc.)

I did once get a very confused look, the first time I was in the UK and asked for a Rye and Ginger. That was in Norfolk, where I explained what it was and got something similar. I'd be afraid to make such a request here. I'm sure most Scots would find that an appalling thing to do to whiskey.

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I'm sure most Scots would find that an appalling thing to do to whiskey.

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Och, aye, lassie. Thorfinn wouldn't even allow guests to have ice with their scotch.

My mixed-drinks youth is so far behind me I barely remember it, although I think I liked Manhattans (rye and vermouth), Gibsons (a martini but with a li'l onion), and vermouth half-and-half (half sweet, half dry).

There are a few mixed drinks that are crossovers into "manly" like a rye and coke, or a martini, from what I've seen.

When I was pregnant, I went out with some folks from the office where I was working at the time on a Friday night after work. They all drank up a storm and I had Shirley Temples all night, which amused the table. No plain pop for me! Anyhow, since I had pretty bad morning (and afternoon and evening) sickness throughout the whole pregnancy, I ended up going home and puking, just as if I had been drinking all night. I thought it was supremely unfair that I should get a drinker's punishment for teetotalling!

[ 10 July 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Originally posted by Suzette:
Someone told me about Clamato juice recently, and I seriously thought he was pulling my leg. I admit that stranger things have tasted good,though. Can't think of any right now, but still.

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In fact, it is a martini. The only difference is the onion rather than the olive.

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get me to drink clamato juice and near beer

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btw, EFA, what are these sandpaper mitts you're talking about? Do they sell them at the drugstore? They sound great!

It's true you can't order a bloody Caesar in a bar here 'cause the bartenders don't know what it is, but I was suprised to find that all supermarkets I've been to in NYC carry Clamato. Maybe Canadians are infiltrating US tastes ... let's hope the infiltration spreads from their supermarkets to their politics

[ 10 July 2005: Message edited by: puzzlic ]

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Originally posted by puzzlic:
btw, EFA, what are these sandpaper mitts you're talking about? Do they sell them at the drugstore? They sound great!

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Originally posted by EFA:
They are definitely more expensive and, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that they are pink and textured with little flowers.

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They might be like Red Rose tea: "Only in Canada, eh? Pity."

Edited to add: There's another product which I would highly recommend and which has recently made my life much, much easier and that's The Keeper. I believe that product actually is gender-specific.

[ 10 July 2005: Message edited by: EFA ]

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Originally posted by lagatta:
we can buy macho Middle Eastern yoghurt.... yoghurt goes with garlic and herbs - or if one wants it for a sweet, with Greek or Turkish honey.

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I finally got around to buying some yogurt from the Mediterranean / Middle Eastern food store near where I live. Man, is it ever different from the supermarket kind. Real yogurt'll put hair on your chest.