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Topic: Massive Attack II
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 11 September 2001 02:05 PM
CBC Radio reports that Washington insiders are looking to place blame.They played tape from a Congressman claiming that the government failed the US. A lack of intelligence (his phrase, not mine) and resources, and a complacency that set in following the end of the Cold War. He said the top issue facing the US is not health care or education, but "the safety and security of the American people."
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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wagepeace
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 114
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posted 11 September 2001 02:17 PM
Dawna:Righteous might is, in effect, the highest state of moral justification for an extreme response. This was a deliberate attack on the US, make no mistake. Because mass death came without warning, it justifies a "righteous" response. This changes everything.
From: In a fog and on anti-psychotics | Registered: Apr 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 02:19 PM
ABC: Burn victims for NYC are being transported to CANADIAN hospitals. That goes to show you how overloaded the NYC hospitals are.ABC: 2 confirmed dead so far. Is it wrong that I laughed out loud when they said that? [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 11 September 2001 02:21 PM
Plane crashes: American Airlines Flight 11 Boston - LA American Airlines Flight 77 Washington/Dulles - LA United Airlines Flight 93 Newark - San Fransisco United Airlines Flight 175 Boston - LAHamas deny responsibility. No one has come forward to claim responsibitlity CBC
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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wagepeace
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 114
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posted 11 September 2001 02:25 PM
Canadian military presence at the Pentagon is usually just liason staff, that's about it.Peter Jennings: "The skies over America are silent at this hour...."
From: In a fog and on anti-psychotics | Registered: Apr 2001
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Horseshoe Bend
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1345
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posted 11 September 2001 02:26 PM
I haven't heard anything about a Colorado crash on the US networks. The Palestinian group has denied responsibility, reportidly. Palestinians may have been used in the attack, but I don't think they had the money or network to do this alone.The markets will possibly be closed for a few days? Whoever is behind this has managed to hit the US in the pocket as well as the heart. I'm really amazed that this whole thing could be pulled off. The major networks here have several apologists for the intelligence community, but there have also been some strong comments on its ineffectivness. So, who is the US going to attack? There was a comment on TV that we need to do like the Israelis have with the Hamas and Hezbollah leaders, but if Bin Laden is behind this, he is far cagier. Are we going to attack the Taliban???? If so, that's a sudden amnesia as to what happened to the Soviets. I heard the breaking news on the radio during my commute to school. Very strange to sit in my 10 AM class where no one else knew it- the world hadn't changed for them yet.
From: Cherokee, NC USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29
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posted 11 September 2001 02:31 PM
The first rabble news coverage is here. (Ends with quote from Arafat.)The second rabble news coverage thread is here. (Ends with Bush's second announcement.) The speculation thread is here. Please, I ask again, respect the Massive Attack II news thread and move your guesswork to the appropriate thread. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 11 September 2001 02:43 PM
US Navy deploying 5 battleships along eastern seaboard. CBCStory from Pennsylivania: One passenger locked himself into the tiolet and used his cell phone to call air control: "We are being highjacked, we are being hijacked!" No survivors reported.
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29
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posted 11 September 2001 02:44 PM
From CBC NewsInformation about the Pensylvania crash. A passenger locked himself into the bathroom and used his cell phone to call an emergency dispatcher. The man repeated that this was not a hoax, "we are being hijacked, we are being hijacked."
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ian Salim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 337
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posted 11 September 2001 02:48 PM
More from the Mid East[Edited to take out the URL because it was causing side scroll, and the story Ian was linking to was no longer there anyhow - Michelle] [ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Michelle ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Apr 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 11 September 2001 02:51 PM
“As you know it is a situation that is extremely difficult for the people of the us.” “As far as I know, No one from Canada been affected” “We said to everybody to remain calm” “We hope the situation will come to normality quickly” “We will hope Canadians will share their solidarity with the people of the US” He pledges Canadian resources, whatever they need. He doesn't know what the situation is.Our ever so eloquent Prime Minister. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: clockwork ]
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 02:52 PM
ABC: There has been confusion about which planes crashed where. At this time, the FBI is saying there were only FOUR crashes. This is what they are saying now:World Trade Centre #1: American Airlines World Trade Centre #2: United Airlines Pittsburg: United Airlines Pentagon: American Airlines This accounts for the missing United flight, and also tends to refute the rumours about crashes in San Fransisco, Colorado and Camp David. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2
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posted 11 September 2001 02:52 PM
Sorry for this long post, but it's a good primer: quote:
1:04 p.m.: President Bush, speaking from an undisclosed location, says that all appropriate security measures are being taken, including putting the U.S. military on high alert worldwide. He asks for prayers for those killed or wounded in the attacks and says: "Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts."
12:30 p.m.: The FAA says 50 flights are in U.S. airspace, but none are reporting any problems.
12:15 p.m.: The Immigration and Naturalization Service says U.S. borders with Canada and Mexico are on the highest state of alert, but no decision has been made about closing borders.
12:15 p.m: San Francisco International Airport is evacuated and shut down. The airport was the destination of American Airlines Flight 77, which was one of the aircraft to strike the World Trade Center.
12:04 p.m.: Los Angeles International Airport, the destination of two of the hijacked American Airlines flights, is evacuated.
11:59 a.m.: United Airlines confirms that Flight 175, from Boston to Los Angeles, has crashed with 56 passengers and nine crew members aboard. Emergency personnel at the scene say there are no survivors.
11:26 a.m.: United Airlines reports that United Flight 93, en route from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, has crashed in Pennsylvania, southeast of Pittsburgh. The airline also says that it is "deeply concerned" about United Flight 175.
11:18 a.m.: American Airlines reports it has lost two aircraft. American Flight 11, a Boeing 767 flying from Boston to Los Angeles, had 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard. Flight 77, a Boeing 757 en route from Dulles Airport near Washington to Los Angeles, had 58 passengers and six crew members aboard. Flight 11 is believed to be one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center.
11:16 a.m.: CNN reports that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is preparing bioterrorism teams to respond to the incidents in a precautionary move. The preparation is not based on any known bioterrorism threat.
11:02 a.m.: New York Mayor Rudy Guiliani urges citizens to stay at home and orders an evacuation of the area south of Canal Street.
10:57 a.m.: New York Gov. George Pataki says all state government offices are closed.
10:54 a.m.: Israel evacuates all diplomatic missions.
10:53 a.m.: New York's primary elections scheduled for today are postponed.
10.48 a.m.: Police confirm the crash of a large plane in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.
10.46 a.m.: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell cuts short his trip to Latin America to return to the United States.
10:45 a.m.: All federal office buildings in Washington are evacuated.
10:28 a.m.: The World Trade Center's north tower collapses from the top down as if it were being peeled apart, releasing a tremendous cloud of debris and smoke.
10:24 a.m.: The FAA reports that all inbound transatlantic aircraft flying into the United States are being diverted to Canada.
10:22 a.m.: In Washington, the State and Justice departments are evacuated, along with the World Bank.
10:13 a.m.: The United Nations building evacuates, including 4,700 people from the headquarters building and 7,000 total from UNICEF and U.N. development programs.
10:10 a.m.: United Airlines Flight 93 crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, southeast of Pittsburgh.
10:10 a.m.: A portion of the Pentagon collapses.
10:08 a.m.: Secret Service agents armed with automatic rifles are deployed into Lafayette Park across from the White House.
10:05 a.m.: The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, plummeting into the streets below. A massive cloud of dust and debris forms and slowly drifts away from the building.
9:57 a.m.: Bush departs from Florida.
9:45 a.m.: The White House evacuates.
9:43 a.m.: An aircraft crashes into the Pentagon, sending up a huge plume of smoke. Evacuation begins immediately.
9:40 a.m.: The FAA halts all flight operations at U.S. airports, the first time in U.S. history that air traffic nationwide has been halted.
9:30 a.m.: Bush, speaking in Florida, says the country has suffered an "apparent terrorist attack."
9:21 a.m.: New York City Port Authority orders all bridges and tunnels in the New York City area closed
9:17 a.m.: The FAA shuts down all New York City area airports.
9:03 a.m.: A second plane, apparently a passenger jet, crashes into the second World Trade Center tower and explodes. Both buildings are burning.
8:45 a.m.: A large plane, possibly a hijacked airliner, crashes into one of the World Trade Center towers, tearing a gaping hole in the building and setting it afire.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 11 September 2001 03:11 PM
If anyone's planning on rushing off to donate blood, please consider this, from an American poster on a.f.u. (forgive the length): quote: I would like to second Vaughn's appeal for people to consider donating blood. But please actually hold off on doing so until you specifically hear from the American Red Cross, America's Blood Centers or the American Association of Blood Banks. These organizations will soon be able to know _when_ it is most efficient for people to donate blood in _their_ area. We do not want these blood banking organizations to be overwhelmed in the first few days of this tragedy that they cannot function efficiently.In the immediate aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, the area blood banking organizations were flooded with hundreds of good-meaning people who donated blood. Trouble is, these banks collected way too many units, much more than was actually needed. These extra units ended up unsold (i.e., tossed) ... and the blood banks suffered big financial losses because they processed 3-4 times their normal volume in the weeks post-bombing, mostly first-time donors and the resulting higher overhead paperwork costs. So consider donating, but please wait until you hear from a local blood bank that they need blood. They know how best to move perishable blood products to where they are needed.
The US system's a little different, and the rush in Canada will obviously be less. I read someone saying they were making an appointment to go, which seems wise.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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paperdoll
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1165
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posted 11 September 2001 03:13 PM
DAMN....DOES ANYONE IN OTTAWA KNOW WHERE TO CALL TO OFFER SPACE TO BILLET PEOPLE STUCK HERE? IF SO PLEASE POST IT HERE OR PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. OH, AND THE TALIBAN HAS "ASSURED" THAT THERE IS NO WAY THE ATTACK COULD HAVE COME FROM BIN LADEN, THEY SAY HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO ORGANIZE OR PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS INTO PRACTICE. I'LL CHECK BACK LATER.
From: onscario | Registered: Aug 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 11 September 2001 03:42 PM
“Everything is safe right now in the city” “The number of causalities is more than anything we can bear. We can not speculate on that number. They were firefighters and police in harms way. There is no doubt we lost some firefighters.” “We have no specific information suggesting a further attack.” “There are over 1000 rescue workers, probably 2000 workers.” “Yes, we are finding survivors. … NY has 150 hospitals” “It is the most horrific scene I’ve ever seen in my entire life. We saw people jumping off the buildings. We were there when xx barclay street collapsed.” “We have turned off the gas in the city buildings.” “Yes, we do have information as to who caused it” (gross paraphrase here, don’t read into it) “I am totally confident that the rule of law will prevail.” "There have been no reports of lawlessness, no looting." "may god give us strength" Rudolph Gulianni, mayor of NYC, from CBC“There will be no primary today” “It is attack on America, an attack on the American way or life, and we must retaliate” NY Govenor George Pataki [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: clockwork ]
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29
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posted 11 September 2001 03:49 PM
Whitehorse747 treated as hijacked going to the Yukon. Another aircraft landed with U.S. military escort. Previous flight arriving at the airport landed, passengers told to leave immediately and get as far away from the terminal as possible. At least one described as belonging to Korean Airlines. This from CBC radio news. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]
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Ian the second
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 732
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posted 11 September 2001 04:03 PM
I don't see what's so surprising about what Bush has said thus far. Any President would have said the same thing. The problem is that the people who did it are either dead or it is very hard to prove that they did it at this point. Why weren't the people in the WTC allowed to evacuate? i
From: Toronto City, Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 04:16 PM
Whoa. That's the craziest photo of the day. ABC: Bush is in Nebraska because there's a strategic bunker there. It's the HQ of the Strategic Air Command? He'll be working from there for the time being. Apparently some of the White House staff are upset about the level of secrecy surrounding the president's whereabouts.
[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29
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posted 11 September 2001 04:25 PM
Ian 2, there is a thread for speculation. In terms of evacuating the WTC - just saw a clip on CNN of people leaving the tower (before collapse). Also, a guy in the area who had friends in the buildings (after collapse). He said that, after the last bombing a few years ago, it took one friend more than 70 minutes to evacuate from a 70-something floor. Another witness earlier (on CNN) said he saw the elevators explode. He was on the ground floor. There just wasn't time. The second tower was struck just after 9 a.m., and went down within half an hour or so. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ian the second
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 732
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posted 11 September 2001 04:36 PM
According to what I heard, people were not in the process of evacuating the building. The problem is that the building was so crowded that any evacuation effort would be dangerous if it wasn't carried out in an organized fashion. I guess people were told to stay where they were, but the building collapsed before they could leave. I imagine a bomb may have been in the building, or in the plane (which was in the building) and may have felled the building. ..? < = Ian
From: Toronto City, Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 11 September 2001 05:21 PM
quote: According to Neil Livingstone, a "terrorism expert" who is on CBC Newsworld at the moment, it has been confirmed that three of the planes that were hijacked and crashed this morning were piloted by terrorists; i.e., the airline pilots must have been killed almost immediately and replaced by skilled pilots who steered the planes from there on in.
I'd be curious to know just exactly how this had been confirmed. The BBC article on the subject was speculative. One pilot pointed out that any dolt could have taken the controls at the last minute and flown the plane into a building.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mimichekele
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1351
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posted 11 September 2001 05:50 PM
Referring to a BBC report that the pilots of the hijacked planes were probably killed before the aircraft were aimed at the buildings, Lance wrote quote: I'd be curious to know just exactly how this had been confirmed.
I just spoke to my younger brother, an Air Canada pilot who flew from Chicago to Montreal before 9AM this morning. He explained to me that pilots he has called are all convinced that the terrorists assassinated the pilots and then took over the controls. No pilot would fly his/her plane into a building. Their training, the "pilot mentality", etc... would prevent them from doing so.
From: Toronto - but I'd prefer being back in Montreal spotting Nazis | Registered: Sep 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 05:56 PM
Whoa. ABC has new footage of the second plane hitting from almost directly underneath. It looks like a bad special effect, actually. Freaky.ABC: Bush is en route from Nebraska to Washington. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 11 September 2001 06:11 PM
quote: I just spoke to my younger brother, an Air Canada pilot who flew from Chicago to Montreal before 9AM this morning. He explained to me that pilots he has called are all convinced that the terrorists assassinated the pilots and then took over the controls. No pilot would fly his/her plane into a building. Their training, the "pilot mentality", etc... would prevent them from doing so.
I understand, I'm sure no pilot would. What I was curious about was the contention that the pilots were killed "almost immediately" upon being hijacked, rather than at the last minute. But rasmus_raven says the pilots didn't use their "hijacked" squawk, which I hadn't heard of. As for JJRosso... quote: To counter the incompetent and hypocritical babblers who are silent when the US wages its imperialist wars all over the world, and who apparentlhy like to see their name in print rather than giving something worthwhile to contribute...
... if you read the "US Imperialism" thread and many others, you'll notice that we're silent about no such thing. And lay off the abuse, for just this once, if you can. It's scarcely a "worthwhile" contribution.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 06:13 PM
ABC: Another building has collapsed in lower Manhattan.Rumour: Seven buildings have collapsed so far. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ] Sorry, my mistake. It's World Trade Building Number 7 which collapsed, not seven buildings which have collapsed. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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Slick Willy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 184
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posted 11 September 2001 06:22 PM
quote: "The chickens are coming home to roost."
I suggest those "chickens" head for cover. The fallout from this will be extensive and horrific. Someone is going to pay for this and you can count on this pound of flesh being huge. The last time someone screwed with the U.S. on this scale they're country had two nukes dropped on it just to set an example. One of the four planes crashed on the ground in Pennsylvainia and you can be sure the flight recorder on that plane is intact. Those clues will lead to something, and right or wrong one very pissed off country with a very big military is going to show up for payback.
From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 06:27 PM
I agree that the Penn black box is probably intact. There's much doubt about the WTC planes. The black box can only withstand high temperatures for relatively short amounts of time. Those crash sites were infernos for a long time. But, I'm really just speculating.ABC: Preliminary casualty toll from the Pentagon crash is about 100. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 11 September 2001 06:30 PM
ABC: All the planes were scheduled to fly to California. How curious.Ah, Jennings just explained it. Because they were long-haul flights they would have a LOT of fuel on board, meaning there would be no need to smuggle explosives on board. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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lonewolf
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 849
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posted 11 September 2001 06:49 PM
What is scarier than what happened to 50,000 plus souls in the US today? The reaction of Canadians calling in to a City TV talk show about 5:30pm today: many callers blaming immigration, as in see we let too many in... to CITY TV's moderator credit, David Onley tried to deflect and diffuse the blind shotgun racism fears, but today I am ashamed of my fellow citizens. I was also astounded that some people calling in were astonished that Palestinians were cheering the attack - where have such people been? Do they not know parts of our planet are in conflicts that have lasted decades? Maybe this is a wakeup call for the planet as a whole - globalization touches everyone. Oh no - 5:57pm 2am in Kabul Afghanistan is being bombed..... CBC TV.... pray for us all
From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Jun 2001
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JJRosso
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 720
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posted 11 September 2001 06:58 PM
Lance wrote:"... if you read the "US Imperialism" thread and many others, you'll notice that we're silent about no such thing." I did not mean people such as yourself -- I can read what you've written. Secondly where do you have the right for speaking for others when you say "we're"? Doug wrote: "The suggestion that anyone deserved this is absolutely repellent." Some logic, some value! When one reads the complete nonsense and hypocrisy of some writers, and points this out, this is more repellent than the crap written by some writers is it? JJR
From: vernon bc | Registered: Jun 2001
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judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29
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posted 11 September 2001 07:00 PM
I am closing this thread and starting a new one.Please, folks - there's a thread for speculation and opinion. I'd really appreciate keeping a thread clear for hard info. And cut the personal attacks. It's never a good time, but really not tonight. The new thread is here. [ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: judym ]
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001
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