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Author Topic: Rumsfeld resigns
aka Mycroft
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posted 08 November 2006 10:34 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bush says Rumsfeld stepping down

And so ends the career of the worst American Defense Secretary in history.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 08 November 2006 10:37 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Damn! You beat me by a minute. I'll close my thread.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 08 November 2006 10:40 AM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good riddance to bad Rummy.
From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 08 November 2006 10:43 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ex-CIA head Robert Gates has been tapped as Rummy's successor. Ironic as Rumsfeld ignored the CIA's intelligence concerning Iraq.
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 08 November 2006 10:45 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another Bush crony, retread hack.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
jester
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posted 08 November 2006 10:49 AM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Give him a fair trial and then send him to Guantanamo
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 08 November 2006 10:49 AM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gates at Wikipedia.
From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 08 November 2006 10:50 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well the gnomes at Wikpedia are pretty fast. They already have him nominated.

The guy's a lifelong boy scout for what it's worth, and a career spook. He also has academic creds. Maybe he'll be more thoughtful than Rumsfeld.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 08 November 2006 10:52 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh Christ, beaten by less than a minute again. I think I'll go hang around babble banter.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
quelar
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posted 08 November 2006 11:22 AM      Profile for quelar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
from Wiki

"Involvement in the Iran-Contra Scandal

Owing to his senior status in the CIA, Gates was close to many figures who played significant roles in the Iran/contra affair and was in a position to have known of their activities. The evidence developed by Independent Counsel did not warrant indictment of Gates for his Iran/contra activities or his responses to official inquiries.

Gates was an early subject of Independent Counsel's investigation, but the investigation of Gates intensified in the spring of 1991 as part of a larger inquiry into the Iran/contra activities of CIA officials. This investigation received an additional impetus in May 1991, when President Bush nominated Gates to be director of central intelligence (DCI). The chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) requested in a letter to the Independent Counsel on May 15, 1991, any information that would “significantly bear on the fitness” of Gates for the CIA post.

Gates consistently testified that he first heard on October 1, 1986, from the national intelligence officer who was closest to the Iran initiative, Charles E. Allen, that proceeds from the Iran arms sales may have been diverted to support the contras.2 Other evidence proves, however, that Gates received a report on the diversion during the summer of 1986 from DDI Richard Kerr. The issue was whether Independent Counsel could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Gates was deliberately not telling the truth when he later claimed not to have remembered any reference to the diversion before meeting with Allen in October."

Oh Goodie, someone who understands the middle east.

Isn't it nice to see Rumsfeld finally go though.. although short of having his head on a pike in one of the main squares in baghdad, I'm sure there's a lot of people thinking he got off easy.


From: In Dig Nation | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 08 November 2006 11:27 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Question is does this signal a US withdrawal from Iraq in the next year? I read something about James Baker heading up a working group on Iraq who are examining several options for the Administration, all of them involving the US leaving.
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 08 November 2006 11:28 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Na na na na
Na na na na
Hey hey hey
GOOD-BYE!

Okay, not overly mature or insightful, but what the heck.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
quelar
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posted 08 November 2006 11:30 AM      Profile for quelar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Okay, not overly mature or insightful, but what the heck.

Considering the complete lack of anything to even remotely be able to be happy about for the last 6 years, I think we'll let you go on this one.


From: In Dig Nation | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 08 November 2006 11:34 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I see no difference in Gates or Rumsfeld!

Rumsfeld=Gates=Gh Bush


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 08 November 2006 11:38 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
And so ends the career of the worst American Defense Secretary in history.


McNamara has to be content with second place?


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Is this it?
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posted 08 November 2006 11:47 AM      Profile for Is this it?     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is an interesting example of what I expect will be a series of symbolic "victories" in the coming month. The real test will be whether anything will actually change in Iraq.

Getting rid of Rumsfeld is a way that Bush can look like he's bending to pressure without actually changing much by way of strategy or tactics in Iraq or elsewhere. Democrats will pat themselves on the back and claim they've scored a victory because they don't actually have much by way of an alternative to Bush's strategy or tactics in Iraq.

In the coming two years things will get interesting. Will the Democrats propose an actual withdrawl strategy? Will they set a date? Will they keep the money flowing or will they cut off allocations? What will they say if Iran refuses to comply with sanctions?


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 08 November 2006 11:49 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All I know is I checked Wall street and the stock market has been soaring since Rumsfeld's announcement.
From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
farnival
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posted 08 November 2006 01:01 PM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gates' Contra connection is interesting. In other threads, and in this article in todays netted news, folks were speculating how the Bushites would punish Nicaragua for electing Ortega. Perhaps this is just the beginning.

That being said, Old Rummy getting the boot is good no matter how you cut it. Question though: now that he is no longer part of the Administration, does that mean he is immune from prosecution for his actions while in govt.?


From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 08 November 2006 01:28 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think this has been the worst 24 hours for neocons in a long time. Maybe the US is moving back towards it's slightly less interventionalist self?
From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 08 November 2006 01:35 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The real downside of this, is that the US might get a competent military commander in place, and this might severly lengthen the war.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Is this it?
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posted 08 November 2006 01:42 PM      Profile for Is this it?     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
I think this has been the worst 24 hours for neocons in a long time. Maybe the US is moving back towards it's slightly less interventionalist self?

I think you have misplaced faith in the Democrats.

From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 08 November 2006 02:04 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did Rummy resign? Yes!

Are we happy? Heavens to Betsy yes!

Are we going to celebrate? Yes, because people who are free of Rummy can do all sorts of wild, wonderful things!

Do we still have lots of work to do! Darn right!

Now we have to fight against the Gates we have, not the Rummy we no longer have.

[ 08 November 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
pencil-skirt
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posted 08 November 2006 02:51 PM      Profile for pencil-skirt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does Gates have to be approved by the now Democratic House and Senate?
From: Saturn | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 08 November 2006 02:58 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They could try to rush it through the lame-duck GOP congress if they meet before their terms end up.

Otherwise yes, Dems would have to confirm Gates.


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Boom Boom
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posted 08 November 2006 03:11 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think some Dems will have serious reservations about confirming Gates. This could drag on for a while if there's significant opposition to him, although I haven't seen any yet - it's still early.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 08 November 2006 11:57 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Ex-CIA head Robert Gates has been tapped as Rummy's successor. Ironic as Rumsfeld ignored the CIA's intelligence concerning Iraq.

Yep. He ignored the CIA just before the 9-11 attacks too. So he's obviously somewhere between brutally opportunistic and shockingly incompetent.

I think he chose to quit today after the US Army hinted last week he should go (you can only imagine just how rotten he must be if even the military can't stand him). But the ultimate reason is now that the Democrats will soon be in control of both the Congress and the Senate, he likely realizes he'll eventually get fired.

Dubya would likely have to veto a Congressional bill to keep him on staff, and I'm not sure even he would be that brazen.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 10 November 2006 08:22 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, oh. Now that Rumsfeld has "resigned" he no longer has diplomatic immunity. Which means he can be tried for war crimes in international courts. Which some victims of Abu Ghraib are pursuing. And which victims Brigadier General Janis Karpinski is helping to sue Rumsfeld. And ironically, this is happening in German courts.

Poor Rummy!

quote:
Former detainees ask Germany to indict Rumsfeld
By Jeff St.Onge
Bloomberg News

Article Last Updated:11/10/2006 03:56:23 PM MST


A group of former detainees in the U.S. war on terror will ask German prosecutors next week to indict former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other top Bush administration officials for torture and other war crimes, a lawyer for the group said today.

Eleven Iraqis who were held at Abu Ghraib prison and other U.S.-run facilities in Iraq and a Saudi detainee at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, will file a criminal complaint on Nov. 14, said Michael Rattner of the Center for Constitutionals Rights.

........................

Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who commanded military police units at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, will take part in a news conference when the suit is filed next week, Rattner said.


[ 10 November 2006: Message edited by: siren ]


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 11 November 2006 12:48 AM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On Thursday, Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez of Democracy Now! interviewed former CIA analyst Mel Goodman and investigative journalist Bob Parry on the past and present of Robert Gates, Rumsfeld's successor.

There's some detailed information there about Gates' involvement in weapons deals with Iran, Iraq and the Contras, including these allegations, which Parry says need further investigation:

quote:
ROBERT PARRY: Yes, back in the -- starting about 1982, President Reagan became concerned that the Iranians, who were secretly getting help from the United States via Israel, had gained the upper hand in the war. And so, there was this effort, as the period went on, to give some more help to Saddam Hussein to keep that war sort of at a more even keel. And one of the guys involved, according to the Teicher affidavit and other witnesses, was Bob Gates. But he’s always denied involvement there. So both the facts of the history are important, as well as his honesty. Did he lie to Congress when he denied being involved in these matters?

AMY GOODMAN: Just on this issue, because it’s so key, I mean, the allegation that Gates personally approved the sale of cluster bombs to Saddam in the 1980s, before the war crimes that he was just convicted of.

ROBERT PARRY: Right. And some of these allegations also go to chemicals, the precursor chemicals that Saddam Hussein allegedly used in his chemical weapons that were deployed against the Iranians and other targets in Iraq. So, Gates was allegedly involved in all those kinds of -- that’s the very secretive side of US foreign policy that Casey was overseeing, but Gates was sort of his man handling some of the details.


It will be interesting to see if any of this is followed up in what Gonzalez calls 'this world of ahistorical journalism that we live in today.'

From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 11 November 2006 10:28 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, sgm! I liked this, from Melvin Goodman:
quote:
...there is a rather delicious irony in the fact that here is a nation that went to war with politicized intelligence, and now it’s naming as a CIA director [back in 1991] someone who was the most important practitioner of politicized intelligence in the history of the CIA. So, as Yogi Berra would have said, “This is deja-vu all over again.”
Yes, getting rid of Rummy was some big victory!

[ 11 November 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 12 November 2006 11:30 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I know, I know. By getting rid of Rummy and hiring Gates, Bush supposedly was signaling openness to working with the Democrats, to rethinking the Iraq policy, and all the rest of it. Indeed, turning off his combative, frat boy, I'm-gonna-smash-your-face-in persona, he turned on, once again, his good-old-boy, I'm-really-a-good-guy, I'm-all-charm persona. The latter persona has worked before, in 2000 and 2004 -- would it be too cynical to say it has fooled people before? -- so maybe it would work again. And George, of course, is now suddenly desperate to make it look as if he is the reasonable one and to make the Democrats look like the hard guys, the bad guys, if the Executive and the Congress do not work together effectively in the next two years. (There is 2008 to think about, after all.) As well, Bush clearly would like to ward off the possibility of impeachment proceedings directed at him and Cheney, and what better way to do that than to present oneself as a reasonable guy, a good guy, not the jerk he has been for the last few years.

Meanwhile, the Democrats, to make themselves look good, are falling for this or at least playing along with it.


Read the article

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 25 November 2006 04:35 PM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rumsfeld's successor Gates, it has been revealed, argued for air strikes against Nicaragua in 1984:
quote:
WASHINGTON -- In 1984, Robert Gates, then the No. 2 CIA official, advocated U.S. air strikes against Nicaragua's pro-Cuban government to reverse what he described as an ineffective U.S. strategy to deal with communist advances in Central America, previously classified documents say.

Gates, President Bush's nominee to be defense secretary, said the United States could no longer justify what he described as "halfhearted" attempts to contain Nicaragua's Sandinista government, according to documents released Friday by the National Security Archive, a private research group.

In a memo dated Dec. 14, 1984, to CIA Director William Casey, Gates said his proposed air strikes would be designed "to destroy a considerable portion of Nicaragua's military buildup" and be focused on tanks and helicopters.


Fortunately, this advice wasn't taken, though the US would go on to commit other international crimes against Nicaragua.

Link.


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 27 November 2006 05:23 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think that BushCo was looking for someone who would disagree with their major policies when searching for Rummy's replacement. Just someone new, who could keep making the same mistakes for a couple of years while untainted by the stench of the post-9/11 Defence mishaps. Untainted by the stench of the whole Bush world, really, despite his past with Nicaragua and Iraq (which the MSM will not delve into).

They got that. A new face who the media won't question harshly for at least six months. Nothing substantial will change in policy. However, journalists won't approach Gates as though he were a walking joke, which really is how Rumsfeld is viewed.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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