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Topic: What % of servers' tips should go to kitchen staff?? HELP!!
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Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650
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posted 17 April 2004 04:24 AM
I'd like to get an idea of what is normal as far as the percentage of tips that should go to the kitchen staff.The restaurant where I work pools tips, and when I started there was no formal policy in place - there were just a couple of servers who would 'buy cigarettes' for the kitchen staff. But since I started, business has dropped off, and because (an added complication) the kitchen staff are also all owners, they are pressuring the wait staff to remit larger and larger percentages of our tips to them. Some of the waiters feel sorry for / have family connections to / the owners, so they are all for giving up to 20% of our pooled tips to the kitchen (even though the restaurant is so slow that we often have only two or three tables (or less) per shift, *total* (not per section)), but that seems a little excessive to me. But... I don't really know, since the only other places I worked either didn't require waiters to share tips with the kitchen, or it was a negligible amount (2% IIRC). I think I'm a little biased because the reason we're so slow is entirely because of the owners: one of them constantly picks fights with waiters and customers, and the place is very shabby (I know, why am I there? I'm working on a way out lol), so I can't help but think that when I go home with $8 six shifts a week, why should I give them $20 on the one night I make good money? They're the *owners*, they're supposed to make their money on the *profits of the restaurant*, and if the restaurant isn't profitable, it's not fair to expect the wait staff to make up the difference. But, OtoH, they *are* good chefs, and they work hard during banquets etc and that deserves something, because we look good out front due in part to their hard work in the back. But again, OtoH, isn't it a bit of a conflict of interest when it's the owners themselves trying to squeeze tip money out of the servers? Isn't that kind of like extortion? So, any information would be great. [ 17 April 2004: Message edited by: Anchoress ]
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003
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robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195
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posted 17 April 2004 12:05 PM
I don't know about Canada but in some U.S. states it's illegal for an employer to require servers to pool tips with non-serving staff.IMO, most customers expect their tips to go to the server. The obligation is on the owner of the restaurant to pay non-serving staff adequately. They certainly should be paying them better than the servers, assuming the servers get to keep the tips. If the owners also work at the restaurant, and are hurting because their ownership share isn't as large as it used to be to due to a downturn in business, it's up to them to try and figure out how to get more business. [ 17 April 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001
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Stephen Gordon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4600
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posted 17 April 2004 12:09 PM
I used to work in a summer resort. The prices included tips, and all the staff - maintenance, kitchen, etc - had a share. Of course, many guests gave an extra tip to the waiter that had served them all week, but no-one minded. After all, waiters had the worst hours.But owners shaking down wait staff for a share of the tips is off-the-chart sleazy. You're quite right: they should be making money from their profits and from the salaries they pay to themselves. [ 17 April 2004: Message edited by: Oliver Cromwell ]
From: . | Registered: Oct 2003
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Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650
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posted 17 April 2004 04:40 PM
Thanks for the replies. So far, the answers range from zero to 20 percent; anyone else with specific experience in this arena?As to the other issues raised, personally I don't mind pooling tips. It's really logical in this restaurant, actually, for three reasons: 1. The restaurant is never busy enough to ensure an equitable division of customers between sections. 2. One of the other servers is *already* so pushy in trying to be the one to take a customer's order that it's more annoying than good service; if he thought he'd be getting more tips by doing so I predict it would be so bad it would actually turn customers off the restaurant. 3. The kitchen (read: the owners) expects the staff to serve people quickly, and that includes 'helping' each other with our tables. Also, the tables aren't numbered, and we don't usually divide the restaurant into sections, so it's confusing enough already without trying to divide things for the purposes of tips. The reason why pooling tips is a problem is that the shifts where we make the most money are almost always the most highly-staffed shifts, which means that when we're in the back counting tips, it's not up to me how much to give the kitchen - the other two servers (who have worked there longer and are very close with the owners) decide on a lump sum off the top, before the tips are divided. If it were up to each server (which would be my preference but I'm out-voted), then it wouldn't be a problem. I could give five or 10 percent (which I'm perfectly comfortable with), and the others could give 20 or 25% or whatever. My main reason for posting this question online is v/v the nights when I am working alone and make good money. A few weeks ago, I had an unusually good shift; only five tables (which was about 3 more than usual for a weekday night), but they tipped really well. Not because they spent a lot, they just liked me. I made $60, which believe me had me jumping for joy, because I often leave on a weekday night with less than $5 in my pocket. The next day, one of the other servers came to me and said the kitchen was 'concerned' because they felt they deserved a share of my money. Now these are the same people who get to decide if/when I get a raise, and what/how many hours I get! If any of my tables had been big, where the kitchen had to really work to get the food out at the same time etc, I would have felt it fair to give them a cut. But even though I was *running* for the whole three hours of my shift, the kitchen spent almost the whole night sitting down watching TV. I felt I'd earned the difference between a usual night for five tables ($20-25) and the actual from that night with my own hard work and personality. So, the long and the short of it is I didn't give them anything, but I resolved to myself to give the kitchen some portion of my tips on nights when I make, say, over $50. But I want to figure out ahead of time how much, and I *don't* want it to be 20%.
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003
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Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650
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posted 18 April 2004 02:53 AM
N.BELTOV, I don't think it's as simple as saying 'unionisation is the answer to this problem', for several reasons.1. These owners break the letter and/or spirit of so many employment standards that if we were unionised the place would be out of business, which frankly isn't what I would want. 2. There are only three servers at this restaurant, so I doubt we *could* unionise. 3. [most importantly] The genesis of this problem is with my co-workers. *They* are responsible for the owners expecting 20% of our tips, because the two servers who have been there longer than I feel sorry for the owners, and take it upon themselves to reward the owners beyond reason, and well beyond my comfort level. The problem is that now there is a precedent, and the owners have an expectation which extends past the 'usual' circumstances under which we give portions of tips (large parties where the chefs do a lot of prep work and really hustle to serve large groups all at once) to *any* circumstances where we servers earn substantial tips. As regards my co-workers and our pooled tips, I have resigned myself to going along with what they want - voicing my own opinion of course - and if that means a few dollars less each banquet so be it. Regarding my solo shifts, I am perfectly comfortable saying to the owners 'this is what I think is fair to give you, get used to it', but I just want feedback from others as to what *is* a fair percentage. Also, I would like to be able to say something concrete to my co-workers, because I will definitely hear from them if I take a different line from theirs (they feel bad for the owners and so they try to guilt me into following their lead). If I can say 'the norm is 5% - give more if you like' then it will have a lot more legitimacy than just 'I don't think 20% is fair' which they judge to be just greedy. [ 18 April 2004: Message edited by: Anchoress ]
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003
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