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Newborn babies do not sleep all that much, despite the rumours to the contrary

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I have an infant, I breastfeed. When she was a newborn, I fed her every two to three hours and it took about half an hour each time. I was on maternity leave then. Now she's 7 mos old, I'm back at work full time and still breastfeeding three times a day on workdays, four or five times on my days off. Times vary from ten minutes to twenty minutes to properly feed her.

Or, you could try to get them used to going to bed when they're almost asleep, from a very early age (like, a couple of weeks old), so that they get used to being put down awake. But not all babies have the temperament for that (luckily mine did), and even if they do, they will always go through stages where they will want to be rocked to sleep for comfort and security.

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How much time does breatfeeding take up during a work day?

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With a newborn, I once calculated that I was spending about 6 hours a day (the full 24 hrs) nursing. Of course, only part of that time would be spent in a work day.

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Is it possible to engage in work related activities while breastfeeding?

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Absolutely. I had a day job when I was pregnant with my first daughter, so I had mat leave, but with the second I was already self-employed. I was at my desk a few days after she was born, and putting in 3/4 days by the time she was a few weeks old. I can do a lot of things with a baby at the breast -- I can keyboard, I can write, I can read, surf the 'net, make budgets, do accounting, make lists, have phone meetings, have face-to-face meetings.... Heck, with the use of a sling, I don't even have to be seated to nurse.

Even with an older baby (Ms T is coming up on 15 months and still nurses occasionally during the day), you can nurse and do other things at the same time.

Small babies are remarkably portable, provided people are willing to accept the fact that you are a nursing mother and this is just part of the deal. Which, in my opinion, is as it should be.

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Newborn babies do not sleep all that much, despite the rumours to the contrary, how did she keep the baby entertained and work at the same time?

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Newborns actually sleep a lot, as Rebecca said, but not necessarily for large blocks of time. I found the easiest way for me to keep my small one happy while I was working was to carry her in the sling. She would either watch me, or sleep. Part of the time was spent rolling on the floor, as long as it pleased her.

Anyway, the article says nothing about whether she had a nanny who brought the baby to her for feeding (when I was in school, there was a film prof whose hubby stayed home with baby, and brought him in for feedings as she returned to work one week post-partum, seemed to work well for them) or if she was having the baby at work without assistance. I'd be surprised if that was the case.

Begin rant:

My workplace actually made it difficult for me to return to work at all, and I've been on a waiting list for affordable daycare for over a year. The federal government seems to think that offering a year's maternity leave is really progressive. Yeah, well, after the 17 weeks of top-up from your employer (if you're lucky) you get a whopping 55% of your salary for the rest of the year. How many families can afford to lose 45% of their income, especially when expenses increase with a new baby? Progressive, my ass.

If the feds were serious about addressing our declining population (hoping for simple compassion for parents from them is delusional, at best) they'd support and encourage people who wish to have children. And whatever happened to their "commitment to end child poverty"?

The empty pretense of giving a shit for our children is all we'll ever get from them.

End rant.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]

The fact is, we as a society have a bad attitude towards involved parenting, to children in general. There doesn't seem to be much political will to make the system any better, and it is still seriously flawed.

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I like the Scandinavian approach to parental leave

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The federal government seems to think that offering a year's maternity leave is really progressive.

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I know. When I had my baby, it was still 6 months at 55% of your income (up to a top rate of something like $420 a week). When the new changes came about, some people thought it was so great. But you know what I would prefer? I would prefer it if you had the choice - get either 55% of your income for a year, or 95% (or heck, even 100%) of your income for 6 months. If given the choice I would take almost full income for 6 months rather than 55% for a year.

It's funny, I quit the highest paying job I've ever had when I had my daughter. I was lucky that they had one year of mat leave written into the employment contract, so I had 6 months to see if I could do something else instead, with the safety of being able to go back to work within a week's notice if I wanted to. In the end, I found dealing with the stress of contract work/self-employment more conducive to parenting than the stress of the job.

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You'd think they'd be more open about that kind of thing there, considering how they seem to be more open about sexual content on television and nudity on the beach, etc.

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...my wife was nursing our baby on a French beach one afternoon and kept receiving dirty looks from everyone, including the women who were going around topless for no reason.

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Weird -- When I was in France, nobody even blinked, wherever I happened to nurse.

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How did that go down with EI rules, Zoot? I guess you just had to claim any income you made working, right? They take it off dollar for dollar when you're on maternity leave and you earn any money. But did they also take those weeks you were working and tack them on the end of your eligibility period? I don't remember how that part works since I didn't work during my maternity leave.

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I didn't have to deal with EI rules. Basically, at the time EI went for the first 6 mos and then stopped. My union agreement allowed for a full year of leave without pay. I took the full year, received EI for the first 6 mos and started working freelance for the second 6 mos. By the time I was getting to the end of the year's leave, I was comfortable with the idea of self-employment and decided to make it permanent.

Arch, I nursed a lot of places... We were in Cannes, but it wasn't high season, not warm enough to go topless on the beach, but I did nurse there, and nobody seemed to take notice. Then again, we weren't surrounded by "the beautiful people", so that may have had something to do with it. I didn't get looks in restaurants or sidewalk cafes, either, though. According to my SIL, who toured with both her sons (she's a musician), Europeans tend to be more comfortable with public nursing than North Americans.

I think Toronto was the only place I've ever been where I was asked to nurse in the ladies' room...

I know there's always the temptation to be aggressive about it when someone makes that kind of wrong-headed demand, but I've found being cheerful and polite makes them really embarrassed, especially if you speak in a clear enough voice so that people around you can't help but hear the conversation. They back off a lot quicker because you're just not playing along -- if they can make you defensive, it's more like you're doing something wrong.

First of all, breasts are fetishized in our society as objects of arousal -- sexual by nature to the exclusion of all else. So the sight of a breast is seen as a sexual image only, which is something that is not acceptable to publicly display.

Not that I think breastfeeding displays anything. I can breastfeed without anybody seeing much of anything, and so can most of the other nursing moms I have known.

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They don't all have the same policies, (I think it was Sweden with the 18 month thing, but I can't remember off the top of my head), but all 3 have much more family-friendly policies than we do. Long mat leaves, better monetary benefits, etc.

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A lady was feeding her child on an OC Transpo bus when the driver asked if she could not do that on the bus. She politely refused.

At the next stop the driver asked again, she again refused and the driver asked her to leave the bus.

After much arguing the lady left the bus (I wouldn't have budged). She filed a complaint with OC Transpo and went straight to the media as well.

When contacted about the incident, OC Transpo stated that food or drink was not allowed to be consumed on their buses, that's why the lady was asked to leave.

After getting over my anger, I laughed for days whenever I thought about that.

Most of the ladies that have responded here seem to be in very fortunate positions where they work near their babies, so breastfeeding while at work isn't an issue.

In talking with friends who are about to give birth, I'd say a good 70% say a big NO WAY to breastfeeding. "It's too much hassle", "Isn't the formula these days just as good as my milk?"

I think the sexualization (is that a real word?) of breasts has a lot to do with the discomfort some people seem to feel over breastfeeding. But, I think the "hassle" factor is a big one as well. My female friends seem to think that they'll be tied down by breastfeeding.

That's kind of sad I think. After all, although this society tends to forget this, that is what breasts are for

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In talking with friends who are about to give birth, I'd say a good 70% say a big NO WAY to breastfeeding. "It's too much hassle", "Isn't the formula these days just as good as my milk?"

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A Dr. at Scarborough Grace Hosp. worked with us on a protocol she was developing for a sort of reverse weaning. The one doing the feeding had a baggie of expressed milk around the neck with a thin feeding tube running down the arm, and taped to the end of the forefinger. This went in my daughters mouth, and we were instructed on how to massage her palate in such a way that was supposed to stimulate the suck reflex. I think it was about a month or two of this, and she was able to return to breast feeding with no further problems.

[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]

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My female friends seem to think that they'll be tied down by breastfeeding.

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And they would be right. I felt an immense relief when I abandoned breast feeding and went to bottle feeding. Granted, I only tried breast feeding for a couple of weeks, but I found that I was breast-feeding all day long in 4-6 hour sessions. I have never felt so overwhelmed or depressed. The only problem with bottle feeding was my idiot of a husband's nasty response to my decision. Easy for him. He didn't have to be a milk machine for 12 hours a day.

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Your friends who think breastfeeding is a hassle obviously have never washed and sterilized 6 bottles a day, nor have they mixed formula or tried to warm formula under a tap in a public washroom while out with the baby.

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I found it took much less time to make a day's batch of formula than it did to try and feed it to him for hours per day from my breasts. And I've never had to warm formula in a public washroom - I usually fed the baby right before going out, took another bottle with me, and by the time he needed feeding again while we were out, the milk would be room temperature.

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Yeah, breastfeeding can be, at first, quite difficult. But they have lactation consultants up the wahzoo at hospitals these days (and you can use them even if you have a homebirth) and they're enormously useful.

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I found the nurses pretty useless at the hospitals when it came to trying to teach a woman with large breasts how to breastfeed. They just started supplementing him right away because he was a big baby and they thought he needed it because of the blood sugar tests. And when they saw I needed help, they referred me to the lactation consultant, whose office hours were extremely limited. And even though they could see that I was very upset about not being able to breastfeed properly, they never told me there were actually people in the community who could help me. I had no idea. So personally, I found the hospital to be pretty darn useless as a resource. And this was supposed to be such a great hospital for maternity, Mount Sinai in Toronto - brand new maternity and labour areas, etc. I was so overwhelmed and depressed that it didn't occur to me that there might actually be people who will come to your home and help you cope with breastfeeding. And I found that several of the nurses who were on shift (with one amazing, shining exception) were pretty useless when it came to specialized knowledge about breast-feeding, labour, and neonatal care.

As for nothing being as good as breast milk, well, my son was reared on formula, I was reared on formula, and so were millions of other babies who turned out just fine.

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That's kind of sad I think. After all, although this society tends to forget this, that is what breasts are for.

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n talking with friends who are about to give birth, I'd say a good 70% say a big NO WAY to breastfeeding. "It's too much hassle", "Isn't the formula these days just as good as my milk?"

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AAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!

No, it is definitely not a hassle. It's tough for the first 4-6 weeks, but after that, it's nowhere near the hassle of dealing with bottles. I'm telling you this from the experience of a mother who has traveled extensively while my first baby was still nursing -- I had 20 hour transits in some cases, and long days in some hot places. It was a relief not to have to worry about having equipment and facilities for sterilizing bottles or spoilage.

And your friends should check out the medical opinions on breastmilk vs formula -- they're not the same, and breastmilk wins hands down. Even the formula companies acknowledge this.

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My female friends seem to think that they'll be tied down by breastfeeding.

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I would cousel those who worry about being "tied down" not to have children just yet. Breastfeeding doesn't tie you down, parenthood does. I still managed to get out, often as much or more than my bottle-feeding contemporaries. And I tended to lug my little ones along with me -- small babies are very portable, and the larger ones can take expressed milk in a bottle or cup once in a while. And as I noted above, I travelled a LOT with a baby. So I would say this is largely a myth.

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Granted, I only tried breast feeding for a couple of weeks, but I found that I was breast-feeding all day long in 4-6 hour sessions. I have never felt so overwhelmed or depressed.

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Michelle, it's really hard to judge what established breastfeeding is going to be like from the first couple of weeks. Certainly, 4 hours plus on the boob at a time is pretty unusual, and I think if you'd had the kind of support and encouragement you needed that it might not have been so hard. I can't believe the hospital didn't refer you to La Leche League, there would have been somebody there for you.

And I also found that most moms are sleep-deprived, overwhelmed and slightly depressed in those first few weeks. It's the hormones, not just the breastfeeding. Although I'm certain your trouble with it added to the usual blues.

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As for nothing being as good as breast milk, well, my son was reared on formula, I was reared on formula, and so were millions of other babies who turned out just fine.

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Yeah, and so was I. But breastmilk has a number of advantages over formula, and according to nutritionists, pediatricians and the like, breastmilk is better. Not that formula is bad for babies -- just not as up to the mark as human milk. What Rebecca mentioned -- breastmilk being custom-made -- is true. Your body alters the composition of the breastmilk according to what the baby needs at the time, something that formula can't do. And there are some immune system benefits to it as well.

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I think a lot of breast-feeding advocates seem to forget that the freedom to breast-feed also includes the freedom NOT to breast-feed. I lost count of all the nipple-nazis... It may come as a shock to realize that not all women who choose not to breast-feed do it out of ignorance or selfishness.

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Okay, I probably fall under the heading of "nipple-nazi", although that's not the term I would choose to describe myself...

I'm not suggesting that all women who choose not to breastfeed are ignorant or selfish. We all live our own experiences. But I do think that we still lack the understanding and support for women like yourself who were willing to give it a shot and had difficulty (because breastfeeding is definitely a learned skill) and didn't get what you needed at the time. I think that's a real indictment of the system, not you as a parent.

Heck, I consider myself lucky to have managed to breastfeed with as little difficulty as I did, since I was the only living woman in my family to do so. It was a foreign concept to me at first, but decided to go for it after researching the medical benefits. I started for the health reasons, but stayed with it for the convenience.

What I find disturbing, though, are women who immediately dismiss the idea of breastfeeding, and those to whom breastfeeding is considered disgusting, unseemly and meant to be hidden like a dirty habit.

I guess I've established above that we're fans of breast feeding in my family. The support that my wife recieved was great, and the openess about breast feeding was hard won, as there was a time not too long ago when there was absolutely no support at all. It was seen as a lower class choice, and women who made that decision were often isolated. We've come a long way and that's good.

I'm reminded by Michelles post that when we were going through this business with our daughter, we recieved huge support from her family, and various para-professional breast feeding support types. My sister in law on my side of the family, who had bottle fed for reasons she has not shared and I've not asked, ended up feeling hurt by some of the thing that were said by a few of the more vocal enthusiasts. Parents of newborns, I feel often encounter those who are incredibly evangelical about their point of view. The Le Leche people for instance are almost a cult. It's easy to miss that when you're basically agreeing with them in the first place.

Personally, I try not to give unsolicited advice even when I'm personally enthusiastic about something. When I am asked, I try to go over to where the person is at, and start from there. For instance, when sombody says it's a hassle, then godammit it's a hassle!

BTW, hey Michelle: Without detracting from the clear feeling behind your post, I have to say I was tickled by the phrase "Nipple Nazi". I kept trying to visualize their uniforms.

[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

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Le Leche people for instance are almost a cult.

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I really don't think that's an entirely fair assessment, Oldgoat. You're making a generalization based on a few nutbars, which you'll find in any organization that promotes just about anything.