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Author Topic: What if your kids want to join something you don't approve of?
Michelle
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posted 06 September 2008 02:16 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My son just told me he wants to join the air cadets when he's 12. My jaw dropped to the floor. To my credit, I didn't immediately cry "Oh my god no you can't do that" because I know it's probably just a passing thought for him and he'll never remember it when he's 12.

But it still startled me and I got thinking about whether, if his interest did grow in this, whether I would allow it, or whether I SHOULD allow it despite the fact that I'd like to see him to become a cadet almost as little as I'd like to see him become a Hell's Angel.

What do the rest of you think?


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M. Spector
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posted 06 September 2008 02:19 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are you really asking babblers for advice on how to raise your own kid?
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Stargazer
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posted 06 September 2008 02:20 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've thought about this a lot actually. What would I do if my son decided he wanted to join the military and go fight? I'll be totally honest. I would blow a casket. Due to the love I have for my son I could never, ever handle him coming home wounded physically or psychologically. Then there is the whole ethical part. In the end though I could only do so much. He's a man now and can make his own decisions, however much I would try to dissuade him from going.
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Boom Boom
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posted 06 September 2008 02:23 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I joined the Cubs and Boy Scouts when I was very young, didn't do me any lasting harm that I'm aware of - and I doubt the Air Cadets would, either. And it would more than likely provide your child with some meaning in life in difficult times - if I had a kid, I'd much prefer him/her/it to be involved with something with a smidgen of discipline rather than out on the town raising some kind of hell.
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Stargazer
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posted 06 September 2008 02:26 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah I agree Boom Boom. I see no issue with the Scouts or the Cadets as a small kid. However, I'm not keen at all on the Scouts or the cadets.
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Boom Boom
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posted 06 September 2008 02:34 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They usually grow out of it, though. These militaristic pig organizations lose a great deal of their membership by the time their teens turn 15 or so - when a number of other things compete for teen's interest - sex, cars, getting part time jobs, etc... I was out of the Scouts (actually was kicked out ) by the time I was fifteen.
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Stargazer
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posted 06 September 2008 02:36 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hahaha. My mom found my Brownies membership card yesterday. I didn't have the heart to tell her I got kicked out for smoking in the gymnasium.
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Michelle
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posted 06 September 2008 02:38 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Are you really asking babblers for advice on how to raise your own kid?

No. I made the thread title more general in case anyone else was interested in discussing their own experiences or opinions on where they or other parents should draw the line when it comes to stuff their kids want to join.

It's this weird thing, M. Spector, called discussion and interaction and relating to each other's experiences and talking about our lives. Seems a few other people have caught onto my intent.

[ 06 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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Michelle
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posted 06 September 2008 02:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
Hahaha. My mom found my Brownies membership card yesterday. I didn't have the heart to tell her I got kicked out for smoking in the gymnasium.

They didn't tell her themselves??

I think we had a thread a long time ago on babble about the dilemma of whether to let your kids join the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. Opinions were varied. I think it would be relatively harmless (I guess) but it's damned expensive, so I'd have to think twice about dropping a ton of money on a membership with an organization for which I have little respect.


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penumbra
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posted 06 September 2008 02:56 PM      Profile for penumbra     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i remember it really baiting me when i heard that apparently i could get a glider's licence 3 years down the road at 15, so if that's an interest in his case, maybe you can investigate if there is another way or show him another programme that lets him get it. it could come to an unexpected situation of "but i have to sign up now, or i lose my chance!" and it may be quite an upset if he finds out he can't convince you.

i remember i kept bringing it up, and a teacher of mine was very gung ho on it, so i'm just thinking that he *may* bring it up again. (?) i was on ritalin or pemoline or something at that time so maybe that's how i kept remembering, and aside from that i was a pretty stubborn and obsessive kid. it really freaked out my father, but i dropped eventually dropped the idea.


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Boom Boom
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posted 06 September 2008 03:28 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
Hahaha. My mom found my Brownies membership card yesterday. I didn't have the heart to tell her I got kicked out for smoking in the gymnasium.

You must be my soul sister - I got kicked out for the same thing - smoking just outside the door with a couple of others when we were supposed to be practicing our knot-tying.


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Boom Boom
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posted 06 September 2008 03:34 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's really funny is that in the 1980s in northern Ontario I was asked to take training to be a Scouter, I guess because I was still single and it was assumed I had time on my hands, and that my Mob connections would help to keep everyone in line. I was Ass't Troop Leader for I think nineteen months before I went on the lam for something not related to scouting at all.

One time we made a week long summer canoe trip down a mighty northern river and it was a blast, we all had a great time, and the kids really enjoyed themselves. Scouting can be fun, when you have leaders who aren't tripping on authority.


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Sineed
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posted 06 September 2008 04:10 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
... my Mob connections ...
The Scouts made you an offer you couldn't refuse?

A friend has a son who has joined the army and hopes to go to Afghanistan within a couple of years. She's not exactly thrilled, but is philosophical about it, and like me if of the mind that we need to let our kids make their own decisions/mistakes, and stand by our kids even if their choices aren't ours.

And maybe a stint in the military might do some of these kids some good.


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Boom Boom
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posted 06 September 2008 04:46 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Generally speaking I don't encourage kids to enter the military, and I guess that's the problem that I might have with Army/Sea/Air Force Cadets or whatever they call themselves - presumably cadet training is exciting and fun, and some members probably will follow it up as a career (life sentence). I guess that's where parental concern comes in. Under present circumstances with Lib/Con govts shipping young CF personnel off to die in Afganistan (and be complicit in deaths of innocents there), yeah, I have a problem with the idea. I support the idea of the CF as a defense force at home, but definitely not warmongering overseas. If I were a parent, and my kid wanted to join the Cadets, I'd make it a point to counter the militaristic propaganda they're likely to be fed with some anti-war propaganda of my own.
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ElizaQ
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posted 06 September 2008 04:54 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle I don't have kids but I was always an 'I always wanted to join everything' type kid coupled with being the type that if I'm told I can't do something I want to do it even more type kid. Drove my parents crazy. What's funny is that around your sons age I did really want to join air cadets and until you brought this up I had totally forgotten about it.
It was solely being enamored with the whole flying aspect. At that age for me at least it had very little to do with anything military. I don't even think I realized that it was really connected with the military.
My parents more then likely dealt with it like they did everything else and asked questions and went through exactly what joining would entail in terms of time and effort etc and to make sure it's something I really wanted to. They never said I couldn't do things, unless they were completely ridiculous but I also realized as I got older that they were quite good at the more subtle guiding type tactics for things that they really didn't think were that great or they would just stall a little to see if it's something I really wanted to do and hope I would get over it. I guess this could be considered kind of sneaky way of going about it but generally the point was to get me to think.

Actually there was one thing that I was told blatantly I couldn't join. The day I announced that I really wanted to play hockey and my Mom's reaction was "No! There's no way I'm getting up at 5am to take you to practices. Just forget it." Meanies.

In general they were quite supportive and allowed me to make my own mistakes if I really was positive that 'this is what I want to do' I think that part must be really hard. Actually I know it was hard because we've had conversations about it in my late 20's. My Mom said that her goal was to raise independent women and thinkers and I think she did a great job but it's a balancing act.

In my younger days and more naive days I actually came within a hairs breath of actually joining the military. I wanted to be a paramedic and for some crazy reason thought that was the route to take. My parents didn't say no or do really type of real disuading but I had an inkling that the didn't really like the idea. I was too old for them to tell me what to do but on the evening before I was to go in an get the final medical I was visiting and while sitting knitting her afghan she just quietly asked, "So have you really thought about the whole thing that you can die and what that means to everyone?" And that was it. A perfect example of her 'guiding' type questions. She knows me so well. No judgment just a question. She was right I really hadn't thought much about it and I couldn't get it out of my mind.
I was sure I was okay with dying (at that time) but hadn't thought about anyone else. I didn't go to the appointment. It was a complete wakeup call. I think because they had always helped me think about things in a reflective sort of way that even though I was clueless about what a lot of being in the military actually meant I was capable of working through different consequences of different choices.
My Mom cried when I told her I changed my mind.

Thank goodness for my Mom. That would have been a huge mistake and with the views I have now on things I can't even comprehend the thought process that got me to thinking it was a good idea in the first place.


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Polly Brandybuck
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posted 06 September 2008 05:30 PM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
WScouting can be fun, when you have leaders who aren't tripping on authority.

That's been my experience. If you can get past the obvious I lead you follow and we all bow down to god and the queen.....scouting can be a pile of fun. Winter camps, snowshoeing, hiking, swimming, taking meals to seniors, bottle drives, sleeping on gym floors...my kids (boys and girl) loved it.

I am lucky I guess, in that it's a small town and I know the leaders pretty well. And I know that they don't take the ritual stuff seriously at all, it's just what you need to do to be a cub.

I would let my boys join air cadets if they wanted. It can't hurt them and it beats sitting in front of the tv twiddling the xbox.


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bigcitygal
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posted 06 September 2008 06:12 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a secret about my childhood. I was a Brownie, and later, I "flew up" to Girl Guides. Yes, I earned the frikkin wings, okay?

And yes, I was brainwashed into the paramilitary BS that is the guiding community.

What did I learn, that I can remember 30 years later? Well, I met the baddest girls at Brownies and Guides. We ran around the church, checking out the cool towers and other places we weren't supposed to go to. I also learned CPR for the first time, and how to build a properly ventilated and fueled campfire.

No, it didn't warp me for life (although if pressed, I believe The Guide's Promise and the ten guide laws are engrained in my brain somewhere. "A guide's honour is to be trusted, a guide is loyal....." ) but it taught me stuff about authority that I had to relearn years later. But come to think of it, not anything different than the public school system taught me about authority.

I did earn some cool badges, though. The multicoloured guide ones were pretty. And while I was a Brownie, I was a "fairy, glad and gay". Heehee!


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ElizaQ
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posted 06 September 2008 07:04 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Here's a secret about my childhood. I was a Brownie, and later, I "flew up" to Girl Guides. Yes, I earned the frikkin wings, okay?

And yes, I was brainwashed into the paramilitary BS that is the guiding community.

What did I learn, that I can remember 30 years later? Well, I met the baddest girls at Brownies and Guides. We ran around the church, checking out the cool towers and other places we weren't supposed to go to. I also learned CPR for the first time, and how to build a properly ventilated and fueled campfire.

No, it didn't warp me for life (although if pressed, I believe The Guide's Promise and the ten guide laws are engrained in my brain somewhere. "A guide's honour is to be trusted, a guide is loyal....." ) but it taught me stuff about authority that I had to relearn years later. But come to think of it, not anything different than the public school system taught me about authority.

I did earn some cool badges, though. The multicoloured guide ones were pretty. And while I was a Brownie, I was a "fairy, glad and gay". Heehee!




Well since you said it. I'll say it to I went through everything Brownies all the way up to being a leader for a couple of years. I've never thought of it in terms of paramilitary but maybe that's more because of the nature of the leaders and the groups that I was in or yes I was brainwashed!

The reason I loved it was because of all the outdoor stuff and all of the camping. It's doubtful that I would have had any of that otherwise. At eight years old I could light a fire and cook my own food and making gadgets out of sticks and string was cool. Plus I'll admit it I really liked singing though are favorites were all the naughty ones. "One by one lets have some fun in the bedroom, ba dum.." "And Granny swinging on the outhouse door"
At 14 in order to get all around cord I planned a 5 day camp for 6 other younger guides which included doing everything, including all of the shopping. I can't discount though that all of the leadership and organizational skills I learned haven't made a difference in where I am today.

With all that said I wasn't a goodie two shoes in the slightest and me a couple of other girls got ourselves into some pretty funny messes and drove some of the leaders nuts. Somewhere around fifteen we decided screw all this all girls stuff and joined a Venturer group that went co-ed. They had mass camps 4 times a year with dozens of other groups from the area. So lets see..first real kiss? Um..Scout Camp. First time smoking pot?..Scout Camp consisting of hot boxing in a one of those small dome tents and whole bag of oreo cookies in -20 degree weather. Oh and first time I was on a snowboard as well, this before snowboarding was even legal on mountains. First time getting drunk? Yep..Scout camp..I still have a scar on my hand from a run in with a campfire.
But hey we really were good we got all of the awards and badges.

And just to add to your recollection... "loyal is she, helpful to others, a friend to all and sister to each other. A Guide is courteous, kind to animals, lord disobey (I don't think that is right but thats how I always sung it which is kinda funny now) anyways..'helpful and thrifty too in thought word and deed'. LOL scary that I can remember that.

[ 06 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 06 September 2008 07:33 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shall we sing?

"On my honour, I will try
There's a duty to be done and I say 'Aye'
There's a reason here, and a reason above
My honour is to try and my duty is to love."

I belonged to the Brownies briefly and quit.

Then I moved to another place when I was older and joined the Girl Guides. I didn't like it either so I quit. Just so not my style, I guess, even then. I was a pudgy kid and looked like a freakin blueberry in that dumb uniform. And the particular Guide troupe I was in was kind of bitchy and gossipy and backbitey. I know, that sounds like a sexist stereotype, but unfortunately, that troupe was the embodiment of a sexist stereotype, which is probably why I hated it!


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bigcitygal
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posted 06 September 2008 07:47 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
ElizaQ: making gadgets out of sticks and string was cool
. I think I learned cat's cradle in guides. Was never able to parlay that into a career.

Also, these things called "God's Eyes" which I thought was "godzides" because I never saw the name written down. So there's the religious part. They were made of yarn and sticks, and I never knew what to do with them when I was done. Kinda like lanyards in summer camp.

I remember in guides there'd be this solemn ceremony at the beginning to raise the flag, and another solemn one to take it down. Even the silliest of us weren't allowed to giggle or poke at each other at these times. I remember "don't let the flag touch the ground, if you do then it has to be burned because then it's no good". I never understood that. We sang "taps" at the end, while the flag was lowered and folded. Holy fuck this is scary, all this remembering.

The silly and raunchy songs were fun though.

I didn't smoke anything, pot or otherwise, until years later. Also years later I read The Boy Scout's handbook, and realized they had just changed all the pronouns for guides. It was word for word. I was surprised and disappointed.

[ 06 September 2008: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]


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Boom Boom
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posted 06 September 2008 07:51 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Up in this neck of the woods we have the Junior Canadian Rangers (JCR), an offshoot of the Canadian Rangers, and run by DND. It's quite popular, and I suppose later in life some who were in the Junior Rangers would join the Canadian Rangers and be part of the DND's northern defense. I've watched some of the CR training - they came through here on skidoos, and do a lot of winter survival work.

ETA: I think every community here on Quebec's Lower North Shore has members in the CR's, and maybe a few in the Junior Rangers as well. A good friend of mine is the leader and trainer for the coast.

[ 06 September 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


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bigcitygal
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posted 06 September 2008 07:51 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle: augh! That song!! I remember it! We'd all get spitty over the "duty to be done" part, and exaggerate the T and D sounds to bug the Brown Owl or Lieutenant or whoever.

[ 06 September 2008: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]


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ElizaQ
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posted 06 September 2008 08:13 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Shall we sing?

"On my honour, I will try
There's a duty to be done and I say 'Aye'
There's a reason here, and a reason above
My honour is to try and my duty is to love."

I belonged to the Brownies briefly and quit.

Then I moved to another place when I was older and joined the Girl Guides. I didn't like it either so I quit. Just so not my style, I guess, even then. I was a pudgy kid and looked like a freakin blueberry in that dumb uniform. And the particular Guide troupe I was in was kind of bitchy and gossipy and backbitey. I know, that sounds like a sexist stereotype, but unfortunately, that troupe was the embodiment of a sexist stereotype, which is probably why I hated it!


Oh wow, I'm hitting a bit a nostalgia overload here. I loved that song, though to be honest I didn't really understand what fully meant until years later. It was the tune. I find it really pretty. Still do. The message in the verses ain't half bad though.

People don't need to know my name
If I've done any harm then I'm to blame
If I've helped another then I've helped me
And I've opened up my eyes to see.

I've tucked away a song or two
If you're feeling low, there's one for you
If you need a friend, then I will come
And there's many more where I come from.

Come with me where the fire burns bright
We can see even better by a candle's light
We'll find more meaning in a campfire's glow
Than we've ever learned in a year or so.


With all of that though if I had daughters right now I would be hesitant to put or promote them being in it just because my experience was pretty good and I got so much out of it. It's so dependent on the leaders and what the groups actually do. For me the most worthwhile stuff and the activities that taught me most about being independent and were confidence building were all the outdoors stuff. To me most of the other parts were just the fluff that you had to do to get to those good parts. If the leaders aren't skilled in this area then it doesn't happen.
And honestly I think a lot of it was dumbed down. Even when I was in my late teens and became a leader I noticed a difference. I was the only one who knew all of those skills and that was my job. Yet the women I worked with were absolutely appalled that I would even consider teaching 9 or 10 year olds how to light a fire or a camp stove or heaven forbid not be right in there basically doing it for them. Using a knife? No, no that's dangerous. Even chopping vegetables was a big deal.
I actually thought I remembered wrong. That my own memories of what we were doing at that age were overblown. They weren't I checked with my Mom.
Then they started redoing a lot of the requirements for the badges and making them easier. To me it appeared that more emphasis was placed on the number of badges and connected with self-esteem. That allowing the girls to get lots easier was better then fewer badges with more challenge to get them. I found that unsettling. To me it seemed that somehow from the time I started to the time I became a leader that the feelings changed around what kids and in this case girls of course, were reasonably capable of doing. In my opinion it actually devolved.
That was years ago. I have no idea what it's like now. I'd have to do some serious vetting before I'd even recommend it to people now.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 06 September 2008 08:28 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BCG, I hated those godseyes things, yep totally useless and then there were these stupid pom poms that you made by winding yarn around a cardboard circle. And I'm supposed to do what with it?
The gadgets I liked were the ones we made at camp, wash stands, luggage racks, shoe holders and whatever other contraptions we could come up with.

Yep the flag stuff is coming back. Amd look at that my brownie whatamcalic song just resurfaced "This is what we do as elves think of others not ourselves".
I just tried to look it up to see whether the fairy one had been changed and came across the gnome one.
Wow that's bad.."Here you see the laughing Gnomes
Helping mother in our homes." I wonder if that's the version they still use!
Did you skip around a toadstool as well?

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Fidel
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posted 06 September 2008 08:29 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My 11 year-old nephew wanted to be a CSIS agent last year. He likes James Bond movies. He's not an ordinary kid, mind. He has a junior black belt in karate now and is older than his birth certificate indicates. He likes to talk. Talk is good.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 06 September 2008 08:48 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
What do the rest of you think?

The ONLY advice my mother ever gave me was, "You should do whatever you want, unless it's illegal."

In retrospect, I think it was good advice.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 06 September 2008 10:25 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

What do the rest of you think?


At least he doesn't want to join the Navy cadets.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 07 September 2008 11:13 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I had lots of friends in the Air Cadets. Only one of them has bothered to join the military (I have quite a few friends in the military now), and that is what he wanted to do his whole life.

I'd say it is nothing bad for the lad. As long as the family's beliefs and morals are the foundation point of what he feels, then he won't stray far from the better points of what you want.


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genstrike
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posted 07 September 2008 12:43 PM      Profile for genstrike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was in the Air Cadets for something like 5 years and I turned out normal... okay, bad example

But seriously, there a bit of good and a lot of bullshit in Cadets.

Good:
Can get glider and pilot's license
Can learn about aircraft if you are interested in aerospace engineering
Can learn survival skills (make a campfire, a bit of first aid, etc)
Can send the kid to camp (either air, survival, athletic, or "leadership") and get him out of your hair for a few weeks


Bad:
Time commitment
Pointless standing motionless for long periods of time (drill sucks a lot)
Power tripping by 15 year olds who have been granted the smallest possible amount of authority
All that right-wing militaristic authoritarian bullshit
Everyone who goes on a "leadership" camp comes back an asshole
Military haircuts (Okay, I hated that one)


From: winnipeg | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
North Shore
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posted 07 September 2008 04:09 PM      Profile for North Shore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My experience with Air Cadets - as a civilian flight instructor working for a flying club hired to tech the power scholarship - was really positive. The kids (? they were generally 17/18) were really together. One could see that they valued the powered scholarship, and had worked really hard over several years to get there. Sure, there was a fair bit of marching around, and stamping of feet while yelling unintelligible commands, but there was also a lot of fun and light-heartedness. I've since met one of my former students through the aviation industry, and he said that not one of his course-mates went on to a career in any branch of the forces...
From: Victoriahhhh | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 07 September 2008 04:52 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was introduced to dope smoking at 12 in Boy Scouts- in 1964.

You just never know what your kids are really getting into.

The dope aside- Scouts was a blast that opened my horizons. Mind you, I had a more limited experience than mine or your kids have now. So maybe they need something else. But theres a lot to be said for them choosing that- unless it is a whole lot weirder than Cadets.


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 07 September 2008 05:14 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I never got "into" Scouts. My family always went camping and I was more of a bookworm than anything. However, I hopped onto things like the wrestling team and took part in little school events. I was in Beavers or whatever it was. I quit after I wasn't graduate to Wolf Cubs with the rest of my troop because of some stupid numbers game and then suddenly I was the oldest one there with none of my friends.

By the time I'd have been a Cadet I started doing other things like getting into the local music scene and such, and just didn't have the time for it. Eventually, when I had friends encouraging me to join, I made the choice of starting to become involved with the NDP. I went to a few of their meets and stuff and saw what it was all about - and it did interest me. However, it never popped up on my itinerary.

Mind you, I don't think that the NDP and my other activities exerted the influences that one usually assumes that they do upon the young person (why, here, I am called names usually reserved for our good friends in the CONPC rather regularly now). I think that, if anything, the rules of the home really rule the young - my family's ideas and such are deeply entrenched within my brain at this point. If you work with your kid, as my parents did, he can have any interest that he wants and will still be all on "the level".


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 07 September 2008 07:26 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My dad was a naval cadet and was a reserve officer later on. He felt the experience did a lot for him.

I expect that I'd have been encouraged to join had I been male.

Brownies was a bust. I was in Brownies for a few years and in the year before we were to "fly up" to Guides the Brown Owl made several other girls who were younger than me "sixers" and "seconders", completely forgetting that she had assured me that seniority counted. I confronted her on lying to me in front of a large group of parents (with my mother's blessing and encouragement). That was the end of Brownies for me. I must have been, what, 9 years old?

From the parental perspective, I've only had one close call on the activities front -- when Ms B was 6 she wanted to take ballet. I have a problem with the dance thing -- many dance classes have elements of the worst of female culture, there's the body image thing... And just, ew. Anyway, I finally agreed to go to an open house at the Conservatory to talk to the teachers. Fortunately, the strings program was set up across the aisle and B was much taken with the cello. I offered her the choice, and much to my surprise and delight she opted for cello lessons. She's been playing for 5 years now and is really good at it. The following year we explored the idea that kung fu offers all the benefits (grace, flexibility, strength) and some extra value. She's been in kung fu for four years now and has zero desire to trade in her broadsword for a tutu.

Maybe the air cadet thing is a passing fancy, but I'd ask a lot of questions, conversationally, to find out what the appeal is and then find similar options that are maybe not so militaristic or more in line with the values you can support. Maybe you'll find a better alternative.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 September 2008 09:05 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Brownies was a bust. I was in Brownies for a few years and in the year before we were to "fly up" to Guides the Brown Owl made several other girls who were younger than me "sixers" and "seconders", completely forgetting that she had assured me that seniority counted. I confronted her on lying to me in front of a large group of parents (with my mother's blessing and encouragement). That was the end of Brownies for me. I must have been, what, 9 years old?

Wow, almost the same thing happened to me in Cubs (we met in the basement of the Zion United church on Broad Street, beside Imperial School...maybe it's a Regina thing). A guy from another six was parachuted in to be our seconder. I stayed in for the rest of the year, then quit.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 08 September 2008 08:26 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe that's what they're talking about when they go on about Brownies/Cubs/et al preparing kids for life... Learn early that institutions are corrupt and biased and suck up to authorities shamelessly!

It's also just occurred to me that I have been in very few organized activities after that where I didn't find a way to take on a leadership role following that. Drama club in high school, film co-op as an adult, etc. Maybe I internalized the experience more than I thought.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 08 September 2008 08:54 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Timebandit:
Maybe that's what they're talking about when they go on about Brownies/Cubs/et al preparing kids for life... Learn early that institutions are corrupt and biased and suck up to authorities shamelessly!

It's also just occurred to me that I have been in very few organized activities after that where I didn't find a way to take on a leadership role following that. Drama club in high school, film co-op as an adult, etc. Maybe I internalized the experience more than I thought.




LOL. I don't remember much about that part of it. I have a vague memory about some girl getting a position who was labeled a leader suck-up and that she was really bossy. I can't even remember if I was a Sixer or Seconder so I guess I really didn't care much about that part of it.

Ditto on the leadership thing on the activities after that though. I did definitely learn skills that helped. I couldn't say what exactly was internalized though, when I really sit ponder I think that maybe at that time it was as much an internalization that females could and should be leaders. That we were capable. At the time, 20-30 odd years ago I think it really helped considering the whole social aspects of the time. Not trying to make it out to be some sort total feminist thing, it's not but I can't discount that it sure helped me learn to stand on my own capabilities and experiences.

From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 09 September 2008 07:53 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was in the Air Cadets for many years and even made sargeant! I was even accepted to RMC but turned it down.

The Air Cadets was really cool for me, gave me acess to exercise and the outdoors which I normally avoided, camp was cool away from the parents and we would learn useful skills (not to mention paid pilot lessons and glider pilot lessons). I don't think anyone in my entire squadron ever entered the forces, though several went into the reserves (but again, they would have anyway)

ETA I was forced to join after being caught shoplifting, me and my buddy. So I dreaded the joining but really enjoyed it, except of course, for the inevitable politics over promotions, which is why I left.

[ 09 September 2008: Message edited by: Bacchus ]


From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 10 September 2008 12:43 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think if paramilitary groups were the only thing your son was exposed to, Michelle, then it might be cause for concern. But, knowing you, he's going to be a well rounded lad, with enough exposure to different ideas that he won't be indoctrinated into anything bad.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 10 September 2008 07:23 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When my old girlfriend's daughter got sucked into going to some literalist gospel hall at the tender age of ten, we were both pretty concerned. What kind of nonsense would they put in her head? She really wanted to go, however, and so in the end she gave in. It ended up being no big deal. She would come back telling us all about how all the bible stories really happened, and I would politely listen and then muse out loud about how I guess since all of the children born after the flood were all cousins related through Noah, everyone must have been marrying their cousins after that, and similar little comments to disrupt the narrative that she had been fed. She ended up ditching of her own accord very quickly.

Kids are a lot smarter than people give them credit for. Give them some ideas to play with and they'll figure their way out. It's only the ones who are insulated from all other influences that become brainwashed.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 10 September 2008 07:35 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, that's true, Tommy and Jacob.

That example hits home, Jacob, because my son used to attend church regularly with his father for a long time after I stopped going. I used to wonder whether I'd have to deprogram him with regards to homophobia and intolerance against other religions and such.

But no, I haven't had to because he's got a lot of outside influences as well, hears me talk about gay and lesbian friends quite naturally, knows that I don't share the religious beliefs he hears at church (and therefore realizes that it's okay for other people to not believe what he does about religion.) Plus he goes to a very diverse school, so he has lots of exposure to other religions and cultures. So I'm pretty sure that if he heard any bigotry at church, he'd filter it through what he has experienced in his life, or he'd ask me or his dad about it and get the real story from at least one of us, if not both.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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