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Topic: Telus work stoppage
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 22 July 2005 05:27 PM
As a TWU member...We're out. The media probably won't really make a big deal out of it until the public starts complaining though... I'm a pretty recent hire to the company. I love my job but it's bewildering working for such a large company (how do things actually get done in a megacorp? I'm amazed everyday). The contract dispute has been going on for roughly about four years. The company and union have been back and forth, from the table to the courts, during the duration. Finally TELUS brought it's offer (illegally?) directly to the employees. One that was not based on any previous agreement, but which was written from the ground up. The union took public a counter-offer, which the company rejected. TELUS demands that the employees vote directly on the offer. The TWU insists on collective bargaining. The thing that shocked me was... Last week, the federal government offered a mediator to resolve the dispute. The union welcomed this move. TELUS, on the other hand, rejected it the next day and insisted on the direct vote. Then, a day or two later, the announced they were implementing their 'contract/offer' on July 22 (today). We risk accepting the contract if we work under it, so we walked out yesterday. We are carrying signs that say "locked out", since TELUS implemented lock out measures more than a month ago (slowly repealing parts of our last agreed contract). The conflict isn't all about mo' money, as some of the public believe. It's about contracting out jobs (see Bell's last dispute for a primer) and possible outsourcing. It's also about setting a precedent that will break our union (direct company-to-employee negotiation). I realize that this thread might be all about bashing the phone company , but I hope there's empathy for the employees - field service who are judged by the number of jobs per day rather than quality; call centre and support employees who are required to read scripts rather than actually assist the customer, etc. One thing, if you feel like it, that you can do is cancel a calling feature, by phone of course, and let the manager or scab know why - to support the union workers of TELUS, until the company decides to sit down and NEGOTIATE. You can always switch providers if possible - they're not unionized, but if we win this, we can try to help them out. Sorry this is long, ranty, and exhustive(-ing?), but this thread probably will appear eventually, so...
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 24 July 2005 05:42 AM
TELUS just blocked access to a popular TWU (though not union-sanctioned) discussion forum.Global did a little bit on it, but nothing on the web outside of the forum. Voices for Change The forum is registration required to read, alas. This is pretty insane. They've cut off access to a pro-union discussion forum to not just employees, but all TELUS Internet subscribers. Their reasoning is that there are pictures of scabs on the site. What happened to cease and desist letters? And for that matter, what's wrong with posting scab's photos? [ 24 July 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ]
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 24 July 2005 06:14 AM
quote: Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous: I know 8 or 9 people who worked for telus at some point in time, all but one said that the management was the shits (for the workers anyway). The last one I didn't ask, as he was working there at the time.
It's alright for me on a day-to-day basis. I don't have any animosity to my frontline managers. But I'm field service - I've got about 1hr a week facetime with them. I've heard it's different in the call centres, dispatching, etc. It's strange, with a fight against a large corp like this, because many workers from many different experiences have to join together. Some of us aren't even working jobs that are very similar.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 25 July 2005 08:51 AM
Telus cuts subscriber access to pro-union web site quote: The B.C.-based communications company that's in a bitter fight with unionized employees has blocked its internet subscribers from accessing a website supporting striking union members. Telus subscribers can't get into Voices for Change, which says it's "a community website run by and for Telecommunications Workers Union (TWU) members. " The site calls the company's move censorship, and TWU president Bruce Bell questioned its legality. But the company said the site suggested striking workers jam Telus phone lines, and posted pictures of employees crossing the union picket lines.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 25 July 2005 11:05 PM
quote: Originally posted by DrConway: Does the CRTC have the regulatory power to force Telus to provide full service to all customers without prejudice?
Probably not. quote: Rates, quality of service and business practicesThe CRTC does not regulate rates, quality of service issues or business practices for Internet Service Providers. The market is competitive and consumers should shop around to find the one that most suits their needs and budget. Consumers experiencing difficulties should contact their service providers quickly to resolve the problem. [...] Illegal actions fall under the Criminal Code of Canada or other federal statutes. Consumers concerned about possible illegal actions should contact the appropriate enforcement authorities.
However, there might be a case for interfering with the communications of a trade union - but VFC is not an officially union-sanctioned site. Also, there is the issue of TELUS being a 'common-carrier', not responsible for the content it pumps into your DSL modem. They like that designation, but this act might make it hard to maintain. Link
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 25 July 2005 11:22 PM
quote: Originally posted by Red Albertan: My personal opinion is that I like neither the company nor the union. The company are corporate gougers, and the union are semi-corporate gougers. I'll worry about the guy making $7.50 on a part-time job trying to provide the bare necessities (including the cost of basic phone service), before I will do anything - and encourage further wage hikes resulting in yet higher phone service charges - for someone already making in the $20's+.
I was one of those guys making $7.50 an hour a year ago. I feel lucky that I came out of two years of school making a good wage. One of the things to keep in mind is that if livable wages get canned at Telus (that is, they contract out jobs), there's not a lot of other telecom jobs that pay like that. Most telecom 'cable-monkey' jobs pay $12-14 in BC, and have little workers' benefits and rights. So, if we lose this, we just dropped the bar a little more, see? I understand where you're coming from, but if unions fail here, it's going to be much harder to organize for higher wages in other industries. A little reading. quote: In 2004 Telus earned $7.6 billion dollars. With 25,800 employees that works out to just over $2.9 million in sales per worker. After tax profits means that each worker produced over $55,000 each in after salary and benefits profit that the company will now share NOT with them but shareholders.
And the CEO makes over $3000 PER HOUR. (I don't like to CEO-bash too much, but when TELUS pleads that it needs to be competitive and cut costs...) Not that it's really about the money. The wages are probably the least troublesome point in their offer. The main points for me are contracting out, outsourcing, and mandatory overtime. The last one is big with me. In my department, I think that means that I'll be working for 48 hours a week, every week
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Nam
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3472
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posted 26 July 2005 03:22 PM
quote: Originally posted by EFA:
That still doesn't excuse resorting to violence.
Maybe. I think that would be a topic for discussion. An arguement can be made that the violence actually begins long before what you seem to suggest - perhaps by the company when they locked the members out, perhaps when the first scab takes someone else's job. The issue is not pure black and white.
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002
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rockerbiff
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9273
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posted 27 July 2005 01:29 PM
As a CUPE member working at SFU I wholly support your job action in regard to your lock out.I'm a Telus subscriber for internet only and having recently moved to Sprint for local service and downgraded my connection speed to low for the summer. I have also worked for another telecommunications giant "Rogers" when they still had a presence in BC. This was non-union and I get shafted considerably because of it. Good luck in your lock out, I hope you join you on the line sometime this week with my CUPE flag.
From: Republic of East Van | Registered: May 2005
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 27 July 2005 08:02 PM
quote: Originally posted by scooter:
I know have personal experience with the TWU in Calgary and it wasn't good. I walked by the Telus building, not being overly familiar with the downtown buildings, to visit a buddy in a nearby tower. The abuse heaped on me was dreadful. I didn't enter the Telus building nor did I make any attempts.I'm bewildered at the reaction. From what I saw a few members on the line were embarassed by the whole thing.
That's stupid and sad. I'd be embarrassed too. I guess they thought you were a scab. Not all lines are so quick on the draw, not in Vancouver at least. Everyone, thanks for your support. I'll be at that rally tomorrow too. I've been spending time putting up homemade signs on phone booths and service boxes, but they keep getting taken down. I'm not sure if it's a company thing (good that I'm wasting the managers and scabs time) or some anti-unionist. I've never understood that, if you don't agree with something, rip it down. Why doesn't the opposing side just make their own signs? Oh well, at 2.9 cents a copy, I could do this all summer, even on strike pay P.S. Could anyone offer to host a couple of small PDFs? I'd like to give people a chance to download, print and distribute my handrolled screeds.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 27 July 2005 08:05 PM
Here's one of my signs:SOME FACTS ON THE TELUS/TWU LABOUR DISPUTE - TELUS has refused a Federal government appointed mediator. The TWU welcomes a third party to negotiate a compromise agreement. - TELUS wants TWU members to vote directly on their offer. If that happens, they will bypass union bargaining and effectively have broken the union that has successfully represented BC Tel and TELUS workers for many years. - The TWU is a democracy. The TWU votes to elect Executive members that will bargain on our behalf. Union members have already spoken; we want TELUS to negotiate with our bargaining committee. - TELUS insists that the agreement that expired in 2000 is outdated and written many years ago. In fact, the company and union both signed the last agreement in 1996. - This labour dispute is not all about money. Most of all, TWU members are concerned about their jobs. For example, the TELUS proposal has little restrictions on contracting out of jobs. The company promises to not contract out “core” jobs, but refuses to specify what a “core” job is. The proposal promises to give contracted-out employees other positions within the company. In the past, when BC Tel/TELUS has eliminated jobs, it demanded that employees affected move to another city or town if they wanted another job. - Another example is forced overtime. The TELUS proposal contains a clause that specifies up to 8h of mandatory overtime per week. As you probably know, TELUS has had trouble maintaining service levels in the past few years, and this points to a possible mandatory 48 hour work week. - TELUS recently blocked access to a popular pro-union website to all TELUS Internet subscribers. This precedent-setting move effectively means that TELUS will censor your Internet if it does not agree with the content. - TELUS employees are paid an average wage in comparison with other telephone company workers. TELUS employees have not received a wage increase in five years. TELUS has the capability to end the dispute by sitting down at the table with the TWU! You can let them know by calling at 310-2255. Thanks for your time. This message is not an official TWU pamphlet, and is written by a neighbourhood TWU member. Feel free to copy and distribute, if you wish.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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-=+=-
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7072
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posted 27 July 2005 10:37 PM
I read through all the outside comments on the Voices for Change website, and I'm really surprised at the anti-union vitirol.People are entitled not to like unions, but the vile abuse I don't understand. Its strange. Even right-wing Canadians pride themselves on being polite, but when it comes to unions they just start to spew it. I guess that's just the internet for you though. All the kooks come out of the woodwork, and say the stuff they can't get away with saying anywhere else.
From: Turtle Island | Registered: Oct 2004
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The Wizard of Socialism
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2912
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posted 27 July 2005 11:36 PM
Two words: personal experience. I've posted this before, but it merits repeating.As a younger man, fresh out of flunking out of UofS Med, I got a job at Molson's Brewery in Regina. I foolishly thought I had a right to work without bending knee to the union. A couple of good old boys set me straight with a hard punch to the kidney and a "Sign the fuck'in card asshole!" I left that job the next day to find a lower paying, but safer one, beyond the reach union enforcers. I say this as a twenty year Party Man who is both pro-choice and anti-racist: Unions are Labour Gangstas - case closed...
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002
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Nam
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3472
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posted 28 July 2005 02:08 PM
quote: Originally posted by scooter: I think the lead negotiators for both the union and the management should fired. Spending over four years to come up with nothing points to a complete failure on both sides.I still haven't heard any information about how close they are to an agreement. There must be many things both sides agree upon.
Well, when one side refuses to negotiate in good faith, I don't think anyone should blame the lead negotiators on the other side. I don't know all the details of how close they are (not) to an agreement, but I do know some. Let's see... The demand from Telus that TWU workers in Alberta get paid less than TWU workers in B.C. for doing the exact same job, with no wage parity until 2009 strikes me as pretty outragous. Also, the demand by Telus to open up contracting out would quickly lead to many TWU members losing their job. Lastly, TWU wants Telus to recognize that TWU represents workers at Telus, and Telus, only after the Federal Court (or maybe the Canadian Industrial Review Board) orders them to, gives over the lists of who's working and finally sits down to start hammering out a deal for new workers down East. I think those are some of the key points that haven't been resolved, and I know what side I'm on.
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 28 July 2005 07:15 PM
I think it begins with the grassroots. One thing that union members gotta realize is that WE are the union. We can't expect the executive to win this one for us.I think all unionized workers SHOULD care very much, since this is a blatant attempt to break the union by doing an end run around collective bargaining. If they are allowed to do this, then any unionized company could give it a shot. Little story for y'all. At Bell: the company gets to hold direct votes on their offer. Rejected the first time. Company sweetens it up a bit. Rejected the second time. Company adds a bit more money. Barely passes that time. Mass contracting out ensues. This is precisely the point of collective bargaining, to avoid situations where the employer can get away with giving the least lucrative contract that a small majority of the employees will accept (often after years of stalling, so you get employees sick of it all and desperate). I shake my head at the scabs that choose to cross. They aren't many, and they sure as hell aren't 50% of Alberta as the company seems to suggest. But by all reports, they are in the divisions that could most easily be outsourced and contracted out. Telco's in the States have many of their call centres based overseas now. But of course it couldn't happen here, not to scabs. Nevermind that the company's offer does not hold any protection of their jobs (other than they think they are "core", which is an arbitrary designation decided upon by only TELUS). Yeah, but every member of the TWU needs to get the word out. The company and the union are far apart after four years, we need to get the public behind binding arbitration. Oh, and if anyone reading this is working in a union shop, and a TELUS scab comes by to do some work, please don't let them work beside you See you at that rallies tonight.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Sine Ziegler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 225
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posted 09 August 2005 10:50 AM
I work at the Harry Hays building across from Telus Tower. I've been out on the pickets with TWU from my own Union in full support. It's a nasty nasty situation in Calgary.Yesterday, the Delta hotel that is a neighbour to both our buildings has workers ( I believe ) from their own place, "picketing" their own hotel with signs that said " Delta for Telus against Workers" I did a double take. I thought they were supporting TWU until I read more closely. I was enraged and certainly confused. Then I heard one of them saying to another " Those Telus workers are such complainers" I wanted to smack her upside the head but I refrained. Apparently Delta is letting the scabs cross the line using their "plus 15" system. ( a second floor skywalk system that allows you to walk from building to building in Calgary without going outside). They are also feeding the scabs. I thought Delta was Unionized? Maybe only some hotels are.
From: Calgary | Registered: Apr 2001
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chubbybear
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10025
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posted 09 August 2005 03:47 PM
quote: Originally posted by Anarchonostic: One thing, if you feel like it, that you can do is cancel a calling feature, by phone of course, and let the manager or scab know why - to support the union workers of TELUS, until the company decides to sit down and NEGOTIATE. You can always switch providers if possible - they're not unionized, but if we win this, we can try to help them out.
Yet another reason for me to stop my service. I'll do that and let them know my displeasure with their labour practices. Good luck.
From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005
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Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718
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posted 09 August 2005 04:34 PM
TWU Press release:TWU demands public apology from Telus BURNABY, BC, Aug. 9 /CNW/ - "We are demanding a public apology from Telus for equating the legitimate actions of our members on the picket line with the actions of senior company executives documented in the video 'Telus Idol'," says Telecommunications Workers Union vice president Hope Cumming. "The video, recorded at a Telus sales retreat in Montreal, was done as a takeoff on Canadian Idol," explained Cumming. "In the course of the retreat, both bargaining and management employees were forced to sit through skits that included women being degraded in a variety of sexual situations. One woman was bound to a chair by tape and gagged. Management participants made disparaging remarks and engaged in questionable behavior that debased women, lesbians and gay people, as well as Québequois. Interactions between contestants and the management judges included sexual banter, presumably for the pleasure of the viewing audience. The most incredible part of the whole thing is that the event required participants to be members of a captive audience, since the session was a mandatory part of the sales conference," she continued. "Not only did Telus videotape the lewd behavior that was displayed at the conference but employees who were unable to attend were required to order the video and watch it," Cumming declared. "The TWU previously made no comment on the video because we had been working with Telus to address a range of issues raised by senior Telus management's behaviour in this situation," Cumming explained. "We tried our best to deal with this in a respectful, confidential way even though we found the content appalling," she said. "But Drew McArthur breached that confidentiality when he spoke with the online newspaper The Tyee," says Cumming. In the Tyee story, McArthur made disparaging comments about TWU members implying that they had no right to complain about the video because they are guilty of "disrespectful" behaviour on the picket line. "We are outraged by this statement," said Cumming. "Instead of accepting responsibility for the disgraceful behaviour of their senior managers as depicted in this video, Telus has tried to deflect attention by trying to slag our members for participating in normal picket line activity," she continued. "Apparently their position is that people exercising their rights under Canadian law is equivalent to the senior management of a company violating human rights law as well as every imaginable notion of human decency," she fumed. "We initially hoped that our efforts to work with Telus management to address the issues raised by Telus Idol would put an end to this kind of behaviour at the senior executive levels of Telus. But there have been a number of subsequent incidents of a similar nature that we have been forced to deal with," Cumming explained. "It appears that there is a deep-seated culture at Telus, supported or condoned by the CEO, in which it's okay to discriminate and demean different sectors of the population," she continued. "Executive vice presidents, vice presidents and senior managers, as well as Darren Entwistle himself participated in the events depicted in Telus Idol. Their participation reenforces the prevailing perception that the company's senior executives have no respect for either their employees or the members of diverse groups that comprise Telus's customer base," she declared. "In our view, all of this should be of paramount concern to customers, members of the public and shareholders alike. Telus continues to act is if it is above the law. This is just the latest, most outrageous example," Cumming concluded.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004
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lucas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6446
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posted 09 August 2005 05:04 PM
quoting Sine "I did a double take. I thought they were supporting TWU until I read more closely. I was enraged and certainly confused. Then I heard one of them saying to another " Those Telus workers are such complainers" I wanted to smack her upside the head but I refrained..."Indeed it is frustrating when one is confronted with seemingly unsympathetic masses. It is similar to the frustration I felt trying to access the Harry Hays building last year during the labour action by government workers. I too did a double take when 2 rather large men stood in front of me and a very threatening manner told me that I could not enter the building, rather I had to queue first before they would let me enter. When I asked them under whose authority were they acting, they indicated they were members of the union. Despite telling them I did not work for the government, and that they had no right to block my access to a public building, the one with the beard crossed his arms and said I was not going inside. I too thought about smacking him upside the head, but given that he most likely would have beaten me to a pulp, I refrained. Frankly, I found the whole experience extremely unsettling. I walked away and waited a few weeks before returning. Sine, is overt physical intimidation (and thoughts of physical violence) against those who are not 'on your side' a hallmark of the labour movement in general, or just Calgary exclusively?
From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004
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Sine Ziegler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 225
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posted 09 August 2005 11:25 PM
Oh please, it was just a figure of speech. What was your business in the Harry Hays when the CRA was on strike? Are you a courier? Did you have to go to the passport office? I was there everyday of the CRA strike and the Union let people in to do to their business. The only people who waited in line were other non striking government employees following protocol with the instruction of their managers ( they had to be escorted across one by one.) The only reason they would tell you that you weren't going in is if you were being disrespectful. But you are absolutely right. You cannot be denied access to the building if you are from the public. In fact, Unions cannot forcefully block anyone from going anywhere and I would say any Union member of the CLC would have been educated on that. Telus people wanted to cross our picket line so they could shortcut to work. We asked them to respect the line and go around the building and most seemed to understand. Big Union people? What a stereotype. Pffft.
From: Calgary | Registered: Apr 2001
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 09 August 2005 11:57 PM
quote: Originally posted by lucas: Sine, is overt physical intimidation (and thoughts of physical violence) against those who are not 'on your side' a hallmark of the labour movement in general, or just Calgary exclusively?
Hell no. Union picketers have been driven over by pychotic scabs in the past. Labour rights to collective bargaining is the lowest common denominator, and it doesn't help when right wing provincial governments undermine those rights with regressive legislation. When you feel the need to challenge a working persons rights to bargain for bread and butter on their tables, you'd damn well better be prepared for some nose-to-nose on the picket line. btw, do you like sex and travel? [ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 10 August 2005 02:23 AM
Well into it now. Today felt like a turning point, a definate change of mood.My picket line has been relaxed thus far. I work out of a "craft" compound: installation, repair, construction, splicing. Many of the management working we know on a first name basis, and most of them have been union members in the past. So we don't give them too hard a time when crossing our line. The situation sucks, we're not overtly friendly to them, at least. This week, though, they have started importing "management" from out east: Alberta, Ontario, etc. They are training in my compound right now. Quite a few of these "managers" look around the same age or younger than me - I'm 24. One kid looked all of 18 years old. All smug-looking as hell, so we tried our best to rattle them and will continue to do so I feel sorry a bit for them. Poor sods, they're shipped far from home, for an indefinate period of time. Telus's CEO said they could continue like this for "in perpetuity". We're willing to picket for as long as it takes, so I'm guessing these will be some long out-of-town assignments for these call-centre managers they have installing and repairing phone services out in the field Also, they are expendable. TELUS has nearly one "manager" for every single TWU employee. It wasn't always like this. I think it's clear now Telus has been keeping excess management to fill in during an inevitable labour dispute. I wouldn't want to be a scab when this is over: there's going to be a lot of purging of unnecessary management. How can they think they'll have a job after this? Or are they just screwing us over for some short term gain? Yet another item: I think TELUS is going to be testing BC's replacement worker ban soon. This job posting, is from Ajilon. They specialize in helping companies through labour disputes, etc. Now it doesn't say their client is TELUS, but there is really only one telecom company that you'd need pole-climbing experience for in Vancouver. Speculation is they'll just use replacement workers, since they'll get in quite a bit of work before the TWU can appeal it in the courts. Bastards But we are SOOO unbelievably solid on our line. We do need to do a lot of work to get our message out to the public to counter the companies' frequent bent facts, but all of us are doing our best. Sorry for the long post, again, but there seems to be so much new info everyday. Thanks again for the support.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 10 August 2005 02:32 AM
quote: Originally posted by Sine Ziegler:
Yesterday, the Delta hotel that is a neighbour to both our buildings has workers ( I believe ) from their own place, "picketing" their own hotel with signs that said" Delta for Telus against Workers" I did a double take. I thought they were supporting TWU until I read more closely. I was enraged and certainly confused. Then I heard one of them saying to another " Those Telus workers are such complainers" I wanted to smack her upside the head but I refrained.
Weird, I haven't heard that. At first, I thought it might have been a 'parody picket' by TWU members, but reading further... jeez, what kind of company acts like that? If you don't mind, I'm going to post your account to Voices For Change. And thanks for walkin' with us!
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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scooter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5548
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posted 10 August 2005 03:13 PM
quote: I did a double take. I thought they were supporting TWU until I read more closely. I was enraged and certainly confused.
That is pretty rich to think the TWU should have the full support of everyone. People are challenging the TWU and I think that is healthy for everyone. Expecting blind allegiance to any union cause has always troubled me.I suspect that the TWU is now spending more time dealing with angry non BC union memebers than dealing with the company management. Just look at the pro Telus rallies, the media reports, and the number of non BC workers that have crossed the picket lines. I think the TWU is in a bit of a pickle.
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 10 August 2005 09:56 PM
quote: Originally posted by scooter:
That is pretty rich to think the TWU should have the full support of everyone. People are challenging the TWU and I think that is healthy for everyone. Expecting blind allegiance to any union cause has always troubled me.
Well, I agree that people have a right to their opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't be mad at them for working against my interests. And I'd be confused if I saw the rally Sine saw too (how often does something like that happen?). I don't think being 'enraged and confused' is assuming full public support. quote: I suspect that the TWU is now spending more time dealing with angry non BC union memebers than dealing with the company management.
You mean angry Alberta union members, right? The TWU hasn't really organized east of Alberta, to my knowledge. If someone wants to be a scab in Alberta, they'll cross. quote: Just look at the pro Telus rallies,
The only pro Telus rallies I've heard of are the ones thrown by Telus. Big rallies for the scabs inside the buildings/property. Feel free to inform me of any others. (I'll let you know when I find out the real deal about Delta in Calgary). quote: the media reports,
The ones that state 70% of Team Telus and 50% of Alberta is working? quote: and the number of non BC workers that have crossed the picket lines.
We've got different numbers than Telus as to how many Alberta TWU members have crossed the line. I guess it comes down to whose numbers you want to believe. I'm not one for blind allegiance for union causes either. I didn't join the BC NDP for a long time because of its' relationship with unions (I'm a big fan of one member, one vote). But if you can give examples or arguments of why people shouldn't be supporting the TWU, fire away, I'll listen.
[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ]
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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lucas
rabble-rouser
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posted 11 August 2005 01:05 PM
Sine, while I am generally supportive of labour in 'labour v. management' disputes, regarding my issuea at the Harry Hays building last year... 1. It not any of your business why I was there at that public building.. not yours, any other member of the union membership,.. or the security guard inside the building for that matter. 2. Despite your dismissive response, the individual crossed his arms and questioned my need to access the building was at least 6'2"... and I am sure it was no accident that he was as physically intimidating as he was. So, in my books he was a 'big union guy'. Regarding the TWU line, I fully support the right of labour to create, maintain and enforce a picket line. I do not support the pad-locking of public plus-15 doors regardless of where they lead. That sets a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 11 August 2005 02:57 PM
quote: Originally posted by lucas: Sine, while I am generally supportive of labour in 'labour v. management' disputes, regarding my issuea at the Harry Hays building last year... 1. It not any of your business why I was there at that public building.. not yours, any other member of the union membership,.. or the security guard inside the building for that matter.
Yeah, I agree, but that doesn't mean they have to be polite to you as you cross a picket line. Regardless, if you want to cross, they should probably let you. quote: Regarding the TWU line, I fully support the right of labour to create, maintain and enforce a picket line. I do not support the pad-locking of public plus-15 doors regardless of where they lead. That sets a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
That's the thing, they are not letting TWU members form a picket line at the plus 15 doors, as I understand. We can form a picket line at the Delta doors, but it's kind of a diluted one as so many will be crossing, most of them not having anything to do with Telus.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
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Babbler # 4133
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posted 11 August 2005 03:03 PM
quote: Originally posted by customer1: Sending buisness elsewhere, striking with out letting the union members vote on the contract. The strike vote they had was a year ago. I really think the union, in this case is wrong. I think the employees in alberta should work together to decertify the TWU. Thanks
The contract imposed now by Telus is nearly identical to their offer of a year ago, which members reviewed, then voted to strike. The only thing that's changed is its' a year later. Telus has dragged things out over the past year, and are counting on us just getting sick and tired of it all and ratifying their contract. The TWU members will not vote directly on the offer because it hasn't been negotiated with the bargaining commitee. If we vote on it, we might as well decertify the TWU in BC and Alberta, and not get another union, since collective bargaining won't be used again.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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lucas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6446
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posted 11 August 2005 05:40 PM
Interesting conundrum. It still does not explain the overtly partisan actions of the Delta staff who voiced a pro-Telus management/anti-TWU position. Perhaps a TWU presence in the plus-15 without the obvious large signage might work. If you walked through the Delta quietly, then camped out in the plus-15 and perhaps handed out information pamphlets on some of the ridiculous tactics of Telus management.. that might serve to create a TWU presence and a smaller, albeit effective, picket line. Just a thought.
From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004
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Wicked Chicken
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4150
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posted 12 August 2005 02:51 PM
Please spare me all the anti-union crap and rationalizations in this discussiob - just simply state that you are anti-union - enough said.This dispute is quite simple. Telus workers have a Union which they voted to support - the TWU instead of the Alberta union , IBEW. The TWU tabled their contract as they were entitled to do and Telus rejected this contract and has been paying Alberta workers less than BC workers. The CEO of Telus, Darren Entwhistle, is paid something like the equivalent of $3000/hr yet he believes the contract with TWU should not apply because "times are changing." Well, you know what, try telling that to Telus that you're going to only pay half your phone bill because "times are changing." They'll tell you that they have a legal contract with you and to take a hike. No different in the labour dispute. As for all the scab-happy Alberta supporters, I pity you. People in Alberta have had the same government for decades and actually try and rationalize this as a good thing. The labour laws are some of the worst in the country and people who are in a bad situation often try and rationalize their situation as if it's good. Let me ask this question for the scab supporters - since the scabs have shown they are willing to work for the money currently on the table - when this dispute is over - should they then donate their wage increase to charity because they certainly don't deserve it off the backs of the principled workers who supported their picket line. Telus is badly underestimating where this dispute will go - I urge everyone to cancel all optional services with Telus for the duration of this dispute and write letters to your MP's urging them to intervene to get negotiations back on track.
From: Victoria | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
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posted 13 August 2005 02:12 AM
Here's one, hopefully it stays up for a bit.I haven't even seen it myself, bizarrely enough. [ 13 August 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ]
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
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posted 14 August 2005 01:15 AM
quote: Originally posted by Amy: I have a question, although this may not be exactly the right thread for it.I have a landline with telus (the only provider of home phone service where I live right now) and I'm going to be moving back to Victoria in a couple weeks, where me and my roomates will be needing a phone right away. Is asking telus to transfer my service there (telus will charge me 45$) tantamount to crossing the picket line?
Nope. More work for the overworked managers/scabs behind the lines is great, in my view. You may want to take a look at Rogers or Primus for home service though. It shouldn't take any longer to get a line, and they might not even charge a setup fee (ask them!). Up to you. If you do decide to switch, let Telus know they might have your business back when they try negotiating a contract - thanks!
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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pink
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4310
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posted 16 August 2005 11:22 AM
Calgary radio stations trying to block the TWU? quote: Tue, August 16, 2005Radio static over ads Labour cries foul over rejection of plugs for Telus workers By TIMOTHY LE RICHE, EDMONTON SUN Labour groups complained yesterday that some Calgary radio stations refused to accept advertisements supporting Telus workers in their dispute with the telco. But Corus Entertainment, one of the radio station operators, countered that the ads had the potential to spark lawsuits; otherwise, they would be willing to run union spots. However, Gil McGowan, president of the Alberta Federation of Labour, wondered aloud if the refusal may have more to do with the fact that Telus is a huge broadcast advertiser, and the stations were nervous about offending a big client. "Telus has a very large ad budget - we think that had something to do with it," said McGowan. "Our sense is that Telus has targeted Calgary as the place where they want to break the union. We don't think it's any coincidence." .... The series of seven ads produced in Vancouver cost about $250,000 and were to start running today for three weeks across B.C. and Alberta. They were paid for by the TWU, plus the federations of labour in each province.
The ads were accepted by stations across B.C. and elsewhere in Alberta, said McGowan. But Corus outlets CHQR and CKRY, as well as Rogers stations CHFM and CKIS, refused the ads, he said. The federation hopes to convince the stations to run the spots. Doug Rutherford, a Corus general manager in Edmonton, said the company is willing to run the ads that are not potentially offensive. "We refused selected commercials that we felt in our opinion were potentially dangerous from their claims and their content," said Rutherford. "We just wanted to avoid legal implications for the radio stations. Those other ones, they're free to run."
Edmonton Sun
From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003
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pink
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4310
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posted 16 August 2005 02:57 PM
I've heard two ads on the radio today. They are pretty basic. People on the picket line saying the strike is about maintaining good service levels (what employees want) vs. a telus vision of more automation, longer waits.I think they are fair comment - the TWU side of the story. But no matter the content - radio stations in BC and Edmonton, including stations owned by Chorus and Rogers, felt there was nothing wrong with the ads. But in Calgary - where attitudes are more conservative (and Telus is moving a lot of services during the strike) the ads are somehow more likely to provoke slander suits? I don't think so.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003
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Anarchonostic
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posted 19 August 2005 11:49 PM
Yeah, for stuff like changing providers at the same address, it shouldn't take too long right now. Basically, it's just programming (mostly automated) and changing a wire at the central office. When members were working, the worst I ever saw was a half day behind schedule for 'office' work.You might be waiting a while if you require a field visit though. But, except in rare cases, changing your telco doesn't require a tech to visit your house. Thanks for the support, Amy.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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TelusGirl
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10206
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posted 22 August 2005 05:05 AM
I work for TELUS, I'm sorry you all feel that you have to change services, and equally I am sorry that the members who are striking feel it necessary to ask people to do that - the only thing that causes is less jobs for them to come back to. If we could get you service faster we would, we are obviously low on staff in some areas and I SO wish I could fix that as well. I'd like to clarify a few things - first, education is everything. Read the agreement - we were under previously and the one they are trying to impliment now - unless you read it for yourself you are going by rumor of what I say or he says or they say... technically the old one said they could contract out too, but they haven't yet. The old one had a mandatory over time claus, they have not in my experience ever enforced it - these are two of the biggest according to our union here?? I don't understand why it's an issue when they've always been able to and haven't. Not to mention, they have a claus in the new agreement that says in much finer working " No regular employee will be laid off due to contracting out" right along with the old clauses that they carried forward. DON'T JUST BELIEVE WHAT I SAY - READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELVES AND STOP THE RUMORS !!!!! It's the only way you will know in your own mind what is true! Wages, I took computer engineering technology and make more money answering technical support calls than anyone I graduated with doing hands on network support/developement or software programming with other companies....we are far from paid poorly and so two things...why should we get paid more when we get paid well ( I know that sounds foolish...who turns down money...the union is trying to make us huge amounts of money...but if you understood how many people you are talking about getting these huge raises the union wants after all we've already gotten...who do you think pays for that? You, me, and every other person with a service out there )Management that I work with in my call center are the best I've seen in any company going without a lie. I am torn up over this whole work stoppage because I love working for TELUS, and so many people make it sound so aweful ( why do they want to work there then? ) because it's not aweful at all...they give us career paths to try to motivate us to higher levels, and they give us "recognition" for a job well done, we get paid really well and many many other benefits to working there under normal circumstances...it's not only that I love working there, many others love working there and as much as it makes me sick to my stomache that I have to cross a line in order to show that and to do MY best to get people that are on lifelines and everyone in general needing phone service up and running ....there has been vandalism all over the place since this started of course making it harder and keeping us behind ( and no I am not pointing fingers ) and there are critical lines we have to care for to hospitals and lifelines before we take care of standard installs - over 50% of Alberta Bargaining Unit is currently working within the walls of TELUS. We are not locked out here, and in BC those wishing to return have been in many cases not to for their personal safety because things are much rougher there for "scabs". I understand what they mean by lock out. I don't agree with everything TELUS side...they are implimenting an unnegotiated contract...but in lieu of 4+ years of trying to bargain..well...whichever. I am a SCAB, I am not working because I have to, I could work elsewhere. I work because I don't agree with the unions arguements and because SOMEONE has to do their best to get people service - and we are trying. Honestly, and obviously I can only speak for those I work with directly, but we really trying and I hope that when you are calling up and complaining (understandably) because we are late, calling us scabs and the rest that you remember...its us - the scabs - that are there trying to do something for you. The others walked out - alot for money - alot for loyalty to the union - and alot because they are just plain scared that the union will fine them $1000 a day like they've been threatening. I am sorry for your part in all this, as are many of us. I wish you all the best - and those of you picketing, I wish you the best too. My speal is in no way a shot at you...people do what they believe is right, I respect you for your choice - I just wish it wasn't at the public's expense.
From: Alberta | Registered: Aug 2005
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TelusGirl
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10206
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posted 22 August 2005 06:24 AM
As per the "Queer Day" stuff, I'll have you know that a number of my collegues are gay, male and female, and not at all outcast in anyway. TELUS is truely an equal opportunity for men, women, sexual preferences, religions, nationality etc. One of my dear friends, homosexual, was promoted into management a number of months ago and is excelling wonderfully within the corporation. The fact is.. we don't look at who or what you are - we look at how well you do your job. And TELUS Idol, my goodness...they were ALL managers including those women on the stage singing - there were men and women in the audience... Heaven forbid they have some off color fun, I'm sure you'd see as much or worse in ANY company. I'm not excusing it, I think it should have been more tasteful but does it really affect anyone at all???? If it offended the men or women in the audience it would be for them to complain... after all, it was them there, not us. Would you hold that against the whole "TELUS" name? Those people don't represent what TELUS is...they represent people who work for a company that had too much fun and too much to drink .....what represents TELUS? I do, the people that work with me do, you do, the public does, and the people picketing - they do too. Telus did not block that site for any reason but to protect people like me...they took a huge public hit to do so as well which speaks volumes to me - they cared enough to take that hit when they didn't have to do a thing and noone would have questioned it. Now...Im not here to debate sexuality, or Telus Idol.... Im just mainly wanted to say - read the contracts ( both or all three for that matter...look at the old one, the new one and the one the union wanted ) and see the facts for yourself instead of taking hear-say. I love working for TELUS and where I am there is no wrongful treatment by management or any other group...and the ones of us that are working is not to benefit from those who are not - it is to keep your services working and hopefully this whole mess with end more gracefully than it ended.
From: Alberta | Registered: Aug 2005
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TelusGirl
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 22 August 2005 07:00 AM
A word about changing providers (because I saw questions regarding it earlier ): If you feel you need to change providers - yes you can. Though most other providers still sublet TELUS lines and in most cases you do infact require a telus number or line first. Also, if for some reason you experience disruption on your new provider, it is sometimes hard for you to get them to contact us, which THEY need to do as your provider, not you. You can get Shaw phone service but you are limited to your phone bases being in one location in your house because it's a single box, you cannot call 911 or accept collect calls at all, if your power goes out so does your phone (regular land phone would not through telus, sprint, etc etc), and some other things BUT - you CAN get these other providers. Just please check out all your options first to find your best solution. TELUS is trying to lessen the inconvenience to clients requiring phone lines that they can't get to (mainly in BC) because of the shortage in tech's in the field and employee saftey etc. I would prefer for people to stay with TELUS if they can - not because I work there, but because TELUS IS telephone, and while Shaw phone service may one day be great...it still has alot to be worked out just like TELUS TV has things to work out and because of that is still in testing/trial run. I am trying to give you the best honest information I can without being partial either way here. You have choices, no doubt about it, again I say...educate yourself - before jumping into any of those though because there are different issues with any service. I hope in some small way I've been of some help, even if it means you go with something else.
From: Alberta | Registered: Aug 2005
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 22 August 2005 03:45 PM
I'm not going to address everything you wrote, because I don't have time. quote: Originally posted by TelusGirl: technically the old one said they could contract out too, but they haven't yet.
The expired TWU contract says that contracting out occurs when a committee of union and company reps agree it does. The TELUS offer leaves it solely up to the company's discretion. Why does TELUS want loose contracting out language? quote: The old one had a mandatory over time claus, they have not in my experience ever enforced it
The expired TWU contract, to my knowledge, does not contain a mandatory overtime clause. It might not be enforced in Alberta. I know it wouldn't have been here in BC over the past few years, as there are always volunteers for overtime. If you don't need it, why put it in the contract? quote: Not to mention, they have a claus in the new agreement that says in much finer working " No regular employee will be laid off due to contracting out" right along with the old clauses that they carried forward.
Do you know how TELUS/BC Tel has made that work before? "You can move or lose your job." Life is tough, sure, but what union wouldn't try to avoid that for its' members? quote: but if you understood how many people you are talking about getting these huge raises the union wants after all we've already gotten...who do you think pays for that? You, me, and every other person with a service out there )
Hey, I'm fine with my wages now and under either offer. Everyone I talk to is as well. Some, however, want retro pay for increases that should have happened in the last five years. Also, see my previous post about how profitable TELUS is - if we get a better contract, the company's swindling you if they raise your phone bill.And before you get on about BC vs. Alberta's old contracts: Alberta members voted to join the TWU instead of staying with the IBEW. Listen, I love my job too. I'll say it again: I love my job! This company hasn't treated me too badly. But it's not about that for me; it's about giving the company a carte blanche to contact out, outsource, and bust the union. TELUS agreed to binding arbitration a couple years ago, only to appeal and weasel out of it. TELUS has refused a mediator. TELUS, in their own words, are aiming for a 'home run' in this labour dispute, instead of a compromise. I work damn hard to provide excellent customer service, but after all this, who do you think forced me on the line on July 21? I'm respectful to your position as much as I can be. I do resent that you're scabbing. And I know I'm not going to change your mind. I'm just writing this to counter a few points that you brought up. Read this, SVP. (edit: formatting goofs) [ 22 August 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ] [ 22 August 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ]
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 22 August 2005 04:07 PM
Just some technicalities. Keep in mind, I'm in BC, but I'm pretty sure...: quote: Originally posted by TelusGirl: Though most other providers still sublet TELUS lines and in most cases you do infact require a telus number or line first.
Physical line, yes. TELUS has to install it if it's not already there (e.g., new house) as per the CRTC. TELUS number, no. I've installed many, many brand new Rogers & Primus numbers. quote: Also, if for some reason you experience disruption on your new provider, it is sometimes hard for you to get them to contact us, which THEY need to do as your provider, not you.
That is true. The competitors' service, for the most part, sucks. I've won back a few customers just by giving great TELUS service But this is a protest switch. I'll be switching back when the company negotiates an agreement. quote: You can get Shaw phone service but you are limited to your phone bases being in one location in your house because it's a single box,
Uh, no. Their equipment interfaces with the phone wiring in your house, AFAIK. quote: you cannot call 911 or accept collect calls at all, if your power goes out so does your phone (regular land phone would not through telus, sprint, etc etc),
You can call 911 (holy FUD). I don't know about collect calls. Your phone does not go out with the power, thanks to battery backup technologies (it is less foolproof then a traditional phone system in this respect, though). quote: while Shaw phone service may one day be great...it still has alot to be worked out just like TELUS TV has things to work out and because of that is still in testing/trial run.
You're right, but speaking with some knowledge of the technical side of things, Shaw's has a lot lower of a wall to climb - VoIP on cable is trivial. TV through twisted pair is a goshdarn miracle. Not saying that it won't be great (I wanna be on the TV crew!) quote: ...educate yourself
Yo.
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 31 August 2005 01:43 AM
Don't the following web sites look like they are inspired by Telus management?TWU Democrats Labour Talk [ 31 August 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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scooter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5548
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posted 31 August 2005 02:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by Anarchonostic:
Source?
Sorry for the big delay in responding. The link is CFCN report. [ 31 August 2005: Message edited by: scooter ]
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004
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slimpikins
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9261
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posted 31 August 2005 04:26 PM
Lucas, if you want to cross a picket line, you need to understand that there are several issues at play.I have been on many picket lines, both my own and in solidarity with other workers. I have seen busses with scabs drive through the picket line at over 60 km per hour. I have seen drivers open thier doors deliberately into picketers, fully intending to injure them. I have seen scabs on foot shoulder block strikers out of the way, on one occasion knocking a very nice lady about the same age as my mother to the ground. I have seen a scab tell the child of a striker who couldn't have been more than 10 years old and on the picket line with her mother to 'get the fuck out of my way you little c--t'. I have been struck by a scab bus (minor injury) and I have seen strikers sent to the hospital after being struck by vehicles and by pedestrian scabs. As sorry as I am that you were inconvenienced , I think that you need to understand that there are scabs out there who would use physical force against the strikers. And who needs to go into all the 'legal' strikebreaking tactics used throughout history by the police, armed forces, national guards, and hired goons. Small wonder that there are 'big Union guys' on the lines. And small wonder that they are prepared for anything, including some jerk who thinks that they should shut up and get out of his way (I don't mean you specifically, just identifying what happens sometimes). You don't need to kiss anyones ass to get across a picket line if you have legitimate business to do. You may have to answer a few questions. Word of advice, don't start off with saying that it isn't thier business why you want to get across, because if you do, then they will be very reluctant to let you through. Strikers always take a proprietary view of the workplace and access to it, and rightly so. If you don't like the whole situation, then call the employer and tell them to bargain fairly. That is a little more realistic then telling the strikers that they are just lazy and should accept whatever the boss wants to shove down thier throats.
From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005
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Nam
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3472
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posted 31 August 2005 08:51 PM
quote: Originally posted by CUPE_Reformer: Don't the following web sites look like they are inspired by Telus management?TWU Democrats Labour Talk [ 31 August 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
Well yeah - the first is a Telus site.
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4133
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posted 01 September 2005 12:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by scooter:
Sorry for the big delay in responding. The link is CFCN report. [ 31 August 2005: Message edited by: scooter ]
No problem about the delay. I do have to point out, though, that the union member quoted referred to "new phone installations". In TELUS-land, this would mean a new wire, provisioned equipment, house equipment installed, etc. Depending on complexity, a two to four hour job (usually this involves a newly-constructed house).
A switch to a new provider, however, should not require a field visit - only software changes and a new wire run in the 'central office', as long as you already have existing service to an address. So it shouldn't take too long - longer than normal right now, but not months or anything. So I wouldn't agree with that particular member in that it's difficult. One issue is that rumours are circulating that Telus has stopped porting/releasing numbers - that is, allowing you to keep your existing phone number when you switch. Rogers, Shaw, Primus et al. should be able to let you know the current 411 on that, and they'll be complaining to the CRTC if it's true. P.S. I don't mean to imply that you knew the parlance, and deliberately misled anyone - it's just a matter of how the employees speak. [ 01 September 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ]
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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Anarchonostic
rabble-rouser
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posted 01 September 2005 12:33 AM
quote: Originally posted by Nam:
Well yeah - the first is a Telus site.
Not actually a Telus site, but hosted by a Telus subscriber (i.e., an ADSL subscriber). I'm not too worried about these sites. 'TWU Democracy' in particular makes me laugh - the TWU is a democracy (local votes, delegates, convention), and most of the members are out on the lines. We'll see - our CEO wants to make like everything's normal, and no one inside is particularly stressed. The scabs are working long days, and they still find time to obsess about the labour dispute online? Yeah - back to normal, whatever you say, champ. Apologies for the blatantly partisan rhetoric, but sometimes, I just can't help myself
From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003
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lucas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6446
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posted 01 September 2005 10:57 AM
Slim,"...Strikers always take a proprietary view of the workplace and access to it, and rightly so..." Uh, regardless of how they 'view' their workplace, it does not belong to them. That computer on their desk does not belong to them. That chair? It doesn't belong to them either. Having 'pride' in your workplace should not be replaced with feeling 'proprietary'. They cannot block me from entering a public government building any more than they can enter the building a 2am with friends and have a sing-along in their office. Your points are well-made and I completely understand what you are saying. However, there is something that really bothers me about having to justify WHY I am entering a government building to someone who I do not know and who is physically intimidating me. I understand the history of labour, and I recognize the injustices which have lead to the tactics currently employed by unions. That said, does this justify becoming the bully to people outside the direct dispute? "...If you don't like the whole situation, then call the employer and tell them to bargain fairly. That is a little more realistic then telling the strikers that they are just lazy and should accept whatever the boss wants to shove down thier throats..." Whoa. I never said that, or even anything close to that. I never once called anyone lazy nor did I indicate that the union should take a bad deal. Rather, I was trying to communicate that support for the union can be eroded when they act in ways that alienate the general public. Burly union guys who prevent a guy from visiting the passport office with his son are not doing the labour movement any favours in my opinion. Unfortunately, it is at times a PR game and some unions don't seem to get that.
From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004
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TelusGirl
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 03 September 2005 06:11 AM
I must apologise for one: slightly inacurate info due to upgraded plans, two: not being around to reply...When Shaw phone came out, there was no 911 access = they now have listed on their site as info on digital phone ....( quoted direct from Shaw site "Enhanced 911 Access Shaw Digital Phone comes complete with Enhanced 911 service. Enhanced 911 means that should you have to place a 911 call your street address is instantly delivered to the emergency operator at the time of the call." They call 911 access enhanced? because it allows your address to be instantly delivered to 911? Weird! LOL, come on...they call it ENHANCED because they want it to sound good...911 asks for address to confirm of course but they have it when you call says my cousin who works in 911 laughing when I asked him if that was a new fantastic extra feature... Also,under user agreement ( Pasted from shaw site also ) If there is a suspension or termination of the Service,including as a result of a power failure, all features of the Service, including emergency 9-1-1 service, may be suspended or terminated." Though honestly, the first people I knew with Shaw phone could not use 911 amongst other things like not being able to call numbers and having to contact them to add the number to their database... this I would assume is getting better for people as I would think most would be added by now. And you were absolutely correct, they have battery back up now - the exact info on the site says battery is good for a total of 8 hours non use time in power outage or 4 hours talk time (I still think a service not requiring battery is the only way to go - we've all seen on the news power can go out for a hell of alot longer than 4-8 hours) which still doesn't restrict you to Telus, there are other providers that are not power dependant....and as for collect calls - you have to use a calling card/pre-paid method, which is fine if you are EXPECTING someone to call you collect but for that emergency situation where someone is in trouble and needs to contact you...no go. I can speak for the importance of that having had someone call me in an emergency from away from their house collect here is again a direct quote from www.shaw.ca digital phone fax... "3. Can I accept collect calls? Collect calls are one of the most expensive forms of long-distance calling today. Because of this, many telephone service providers are offering customers other options. Shaw has chosen to provide our pre-paid International Calling Plan as our alternative to traditional collect-call services. With our pre-paid plan, collect callers can talk longer for less. The only difference is that callers will dial a local access number, rather than place the call through an operator. You can set up one or more users on your plan and you can monitor usage online. " Also... you can't make International calls outside of USA and Canada unless you are on a 'pre-paid' plan either "2. How do I make an international call? To call a phone number outside of Canada and the United States you must subscribe to a pre-paid calling service." There is no smartring - dual numbers that work on the same line each with a separate line intended mainly for persons with fax machines etc "2. Is distinctive ring available for Shaw Digital Phone? At this time distinctive ring is not available. If you previously subscribed to distinctive ring and used your fax machine’s distinctive ring mode, you will need to change your fax machine settings. Most fax machines will accommodate either of the following two answer settings, both of which will work with Shaw Digital Phone:" They said instead you can buy two separate lines. There are lots of things I could go on about...fact is, I don't care...the choice is yours, I am just giving the info I know. Telus is not stopping people from getting lines, of course they are behind on new installs/ lines because of the work situation, but obviously if you already have a line you can switch at any point.
And I am not in PR, I am a computer engineer. I work in technical support. I just love the company I work for and have been treated like gold from the minute I walked in and not because of union rules that make things easy or the pay...it's the other things that I said before. And most the people I work with are sincere in their jobs, these are the people trying to keep your phones/internet connections working. As for the contract stuff, I made my choice and my views and others views may be obviously different, but I am not fearful of the wording in the contract and I am not in fear of losing my job if they chose to contract out, and I'm not in fear of being worked relentlasly (sp) over OT that people always want, even if it comes down to them demanding it - do you realize the percentage of union companies that have mandatory OT clauses, and not so pretty ones either and they absolutely use them...its a very high number... I'm a good worker and have never needed union support because I am a good worker and I have faith in my skills. Anyway, hate me if you will...but really people working are holding your job for you...a company with no customers have no need for employees. And besides, someone has to keep those lifelines going and honestly outside of the fact I'm extremely loyal to TELUS as a result of being so happy there, I am equally as loyal to our customers and want them to be as pleased with TELUS as I know people can be. Lastly - I'm not posting on here anymore. As is, I really am not up for debating my morals or yours or the contract wording or what have you. I love the company and our customers, I'm glad you love your job too and hope you see yourself back into it asap when this is all over with. I respect what your stand is 100%, I just don't believe in it as you do, but just as I don't believe in a tonne of other peoples religions and I don't go to everyone's churches...I still respect them and wish them every happiness. I'm just a computer engineer, who loves her job and really just wanted people to know the good side of it not just the bad... I felt bad after posting here at all because I knew it would stir some debate even though I'm not saying the union is aweful blah blah...I'm really just saying that what is being said is misleading on all parts....I even said not to listen to what I say but absolutely to read it yourself as with anything.... I have a copy of old and new contract in full...I could go over them word for word with everyone and take on a head on debate...but to what avail..my main point was that some people Love TELUS, including me, but anything else....not my intent. Cheers, wellness to you all - and again, that was my last post and likely I won't be back to read any following posts... I've found that my off work time is better spent with my family, or seeing if my friends and I can muster up some more support for the hurricane victims, and lastly...crying for hours each night as I watch the news horrified about their experience. I realize so much in the presence of these horrific events - there is very little in life that matters outside of who you love.... yet people are so stuck on "stuff" that they will die for it... I saw a home where four bodies were found, mother father and 2 children...dead because they feared if they left their house would be looted ....I cry just thinking about how ridiculous that is....and for those children who had no choice in that and who's lives ended far far too early. And on that note, those of us working recieved half of our lumpsum pay outs...Mine in the amount before tax is in delivery to a foundation of aid for the relief efforts - I know many people can't afford to spare any money, God knows I can't either, we are a 2 income family living on one income for the last few months due to an injury...but, for those who can..think of those people please even if it's only a small contribution or donating blood ( which I am doing right away and invite everyone else to do as well )...they have great needs at this time, we could not even fathem it without living it I'm quite sure. (sorry to discuss the hurricane in this area ....I'm just so sad...so very sad...and if I can muster up my half lumpsum to donate which is very hard to do, I'm sure there are some who can spare $10 or $20...or clothing/ toys/food/diapers to send over )
From: Alberta | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308
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posted 03 September 2005 02:09 PM
quote: Originally posted by lucas:
Unfortunately, it is at times a PR game and some unions don't seem to get that.
Frankly, I think it's time more unions didn't get that. Unions always lose the PR game. Every single time. It doesn't matter how justified their stance is, it doesn't matter how much they lean over backwards to be reasonable, water down their stance to be reasonable, limit what kinds of job actions they take to be reasonable, extend olive branches and tolerate vicious, bad-faith actions by management to be reasonable, if the press can't come up with some excuse to make the union look like the bad guy it will simply ignore the whole affair. Yeah, whatever big guy sassed you doubtless shouldn't have. The public is not the enemy. But in general, I've gotten very cynical about the whole "PR" meme. If a union has a choice between putting the boots to management in a dispute and doing something that will look "reasonable" in an attempt to get good PR--put in the boots. Because all your attempts to make nice for the cameras will be ignored and spun. And all attempts to be reasonable with management for the sake of simply coming to a reasonable settlement will be interpreted as weakness and jumped on. Management in general these days considers breaking the union to be a core principle of operation; if the union is strong, they'll be sneaky about it and try to chisel away a piece at a time. If the union is weak or management gets the whip hand in some way, they'll come right out and try to crush the union. But it's been a long time since management in North America ever bargained in good faith. The only way to get their attention is to knock 'em off their feet and kick 'em in the profits and perks.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002
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slimpikins
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9261
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posted 03 September 2005 10:58 PM
Amen, Rufus. Going for the PR advantage never works, especially in Alberta. No matter what you do, or how you do it, you are still a 'Union Boss' with 'outrageous, unrealistic demands' by the time management gets through with you, and the media will almost always report what management tells them as the truth. If the Union states that workers are not being paid for all hours worked, you get a story about 'Union claims' and there is usually the line 'in spite of assurances by the employer, the Union continues to claim'. Hell, sometimes the employer will even have some company suck for the media to interview about how the Union is way off base. During a strike that I was involved in in 1997, the Calgary Sun ran an article where they interviewed a scab about how the Union wasn't worth anything to him. You know what? The strike was won, and that scab sure didn't turn down the wage increase, or the vacation time increase, and he used the new seniority language to move to a job that he had wanted for a long time. Where was the article in the Sun about that? The only exception I have seen in recent history is Rick Bell in the Calgary Sun, who slammed Ralph and the tories for thier vicious attack on mostly immigrant workers at Lakeside Packers in Brooks. Thanks Rick. As far as I am concerned, fuck the PR and stick it to the bastards, because as sure as shit they will stick it to us. As far as loving my employer like TelusGirl seems to, ROTFLMAO. You know what I love? I love to be paid a decent wage, I love to take my kids to the dentist when they need to go, I love that my job isn't going to be contracted out overseas, and I love the fact that my boss knows that he can't dick me around without some consequences. You know what my boss loves? Money. Thats fine, as long as it isn't my money that he falls in love with. I need it. TelusGirl, if you're still out there, listen up. You may love Telus, but Telus doesn't love you. Telus loves what you can do for it, ie make it piles of cash. That's all. Telus, and all corporations, are users. Thats what they do, use you to make money. Fine, use them to make money for yourself, but don't call it love, because it aint that at all. Sorry about the lenghty post. I will now put my soapbox away and go and assist in the bathing and putting to bed of my kids, in the house that we bought because I make Union wages and have job security.
From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005
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