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Pre-teens and adolescents should not be allowed to wear provocative clothes in schools, high-ranking members of the Quebec Liberal Party youth wing said yesterday.

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Why would they take such a right wing position? Does anyone here have any knowledge about the Quebec Liberal Youth wing that could explain this position? Why are they pushing the right wing agenda in a provicne that has no desire for it?

Still, such social conservatism does surprise me, as it doesn't fly here.

I don't like harassing young people about what they wear - wish I could - but the question of how provocative, highly-sexualised dress is marketed to very young kids is a complex issue, and not a concern only to "right-wingers".

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
Is their actually a right-wing trend among the youth of the QLP? I find that VERY hard to believe.

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I'm not speaking about a non-traditional marriage (you know, that bizzare straight only marriage that some weirdos want to turn the clock back to) sort of backwards. I'm talking about people who might as well march off and join the Republican party.

But roguish individuals exist in all parties. You could never paint me orange based on the way I post

[ 02 August 2005: Message edited by: Papal Bull ]

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
It matters because the Quebec Liberals are at present the only alternative to the PQ. So for the sake of national unity, I take no solace in the fact that the Partie Quebecios is far more popular among youth than the Quebec Liberals.

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I partially do for a few reasons:

1. More leftist

2. More socially liberal

3. Won't let greedy rich West Islanders and Westmounters get away with benefiting from Montreal's economy and cultural institutions without paying Montreal taxes. (UN ILE UN VILLE!!!!)

4. Less likely to fund private schools for religious minorities

5. We need somewhere to escape should the Tories or a Bush-bot controlled Fiberal party ever gain outright control of Ottawa.

Oh, and Kevin...How about a refresher on which party Jean Charest is a member of and which party Tory candidate Lawrence Cannon was once a cabinet minister in. ;-)

[ 02 August 2005: Message edited by: Betray My Secrets ]

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Originally posted by lagatta:

I don't like harassing young people about what they wear - wish I could - but the question of how provocative, highly-sexualised dress is marketed to very young kids is a complex issue, and not a concern only to "right-wingers".

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I agree. I don't care what adults wear, but 12 year olds in highly sexualised dress raises some questions....

Kevin, you could console yourself that almost 30 years after the PQ first came to power in 1976, Québec is still in the Confederation, and there is a lot more "cultural comfort" and openness to the world among the younger generation, "la génération de la loi 101", made up of young people schooled in French from a vast array of countries, races and backgrounds.

I disagree with you of course - I see social issues as more important than the existence of any particular nation-state formation, be it Québec, Canada or any other one.

And I really hope they're not serious about removing the tuition freeze. Education needs more money, not less. Don't they understand that students are the last people they should be picking on. For the most part we're barely making ends meet as it is and we will be reimbursing society's investments in us as soon as we graduate and get gainful employment - and thereby pay high taxes.

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Originally posted by planteater:
It came as big surprise to me. Their whole attitude on the way youth dress is truly bizarre. First of all, it isn't anyone's business.

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Yes, it is someone's business. Do you have a job, planteater? Show up shirtless and barefoot tommorow, and see how well that goes. Or, imagine showing up wearing an anti-abortion shirt with gory photos on it. Is it still nobody's business?

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
Is their actually a right-wing trend among the youth of the QLP? I find that VERY hard to believe.

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Originally posted by Betray My Secrets:
Last I checked, Mario Dumont is more socially liberal than a certain bigot we tolerate in the NDP.

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At present, kids wear whatever they want (fine) and whatever they or their parents can afford (not so fine). Class distinctions are very easy to identify in a high school. Differentiation through designer brand fashions is the most effective way to demonstrate wealth, and keep the poor kids in their place (unstylish = uncool = outsiders).

Though I would have fought a school uniform tooth and nail as a teen, in retrospect I have a more muted perspective of it.

[ 03 August 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]

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Originally posted by obscurantist:
I'm guessing you meant to post in the school dress code thread that was above this one on TAT?

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Whether Suzy and Tommy are dressed in provocative clothing, school uniforms or Glad garbage bags will make no difference.

Hormones rule, families are often in an unhealthy state and many people, including young people, are regretably starving for love and affection.

Anyhow, I don't see what's so socially conservative about being concerned with 8 year old girls wearing thongs and being worried if they're too fat. I personally find that sad.

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Originally posted by Betray My Secrets:
Last I checked, Mario Dumont is more socially liberal than a certain bigot we tolerate in the NDP.

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Not really. He has voted in favor of civil unions for homosexuals, perhaps, but he later expressed regrets for doing so and he has voiced some criticism about abortions that he considers wrong, coming short of wanting to limit access. One adequiste on a forum I used to frequent before it degraded too much said in the run-up to the war in Iraq that Dumont was privately in favor, but pretended to be against not to alienate voters.

In short, I think Dumont is less socially liberal than most think, it's simply that A- Social issues are not big in Québec (good!) so he doesn't have to take publicly position on them B- He has to court the same voters as everyone else.

Good CBC Marketplace story on 'Sex sells: Marketing and 'age compression'

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At Amanda’s school, we meet Shari Graydon. She just wrote a book for kids about beauty stereotypes and advertising. But even Graydon was shocked by what we picked up for children at the mall: a padded push-up bra from Miss Teen, a chain that sells to tweens. We found another at La Senza Girl, size “30 AA.” (The national average bra size is “36 C.”)

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The parents have lost control over their children and pop stars are their idols. I agree with these young liberals on this one because things have gone waaay too far here in fashion mad Montreal. It's disturbing to me that the 'state' needs to get involved but I think it's the right choice in this case. These are 'children' we're talking about ( as sarcastic refrains of 'Won't you please think of the children, think of the children!!! come to mind) If the parents have lost control of their children then yes I expect the schools to impose school uniforms.

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Originally posted by mary123:
Sometimes I think that Montreal may be a pedophiles dream because some of these girls as young as 8 or 9 do go too far with the sexy clothing. The Montreal company 'La Senza Girl' is marketing thongs and push up lacy bras aimed at tweens. Excuse me but there is something really wrong and perverted there.

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I think once thongs become more ordinary and lose their sex fetish reputation as more women (like girls' mothers!) start wearing them regularly as just another underwear choice, then people will stop seeing thongs as sex paraphernalia, and start seeing them as just another undergarment choice.

I mean, every type of underwear was new and sexy at some point. When bikini-cut underwear came out, I'm sure people thought that was the height of sexiness, and they make those for girls and no one blinks an eye. Maybe when bikini-cut undies came out for girls, people were scandalized then too. Or how about bikini bathing suits? They were probably considered to be risque when they first came out, but now we see bikinis for not only teens and tweens, but even little girls.

I'm not overly concerned about pretty bras and undies for little girls. I remember being a little girl and wondering what my body would look like in pretty lingerie, and I think most girls try some on if there's any around to get their hands on, whether an older sister or a mother's stuff, just to see what it looks like. Doesn't mean you're going to go out and start screwing all the boys at school.

I don't really have a problem with it.

[ 04 August 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Les jeunes libéraux veulent par ailleurs convaincre le gouvernement de nationaliser l'eau potable et d'encadrer la commercialisation de cette ressource pour assurer sa pérennité.

Parmi les autres idées défendues par les jeunes du PLQ, figurent le projet de rendre obligatoire l'étiquetage des produits contenant des OGM, celui d'obliger les municipalités à se doter d'un programme de recyclage résidentiel et commercial et celui de réduire l'offre de jeux de hasard pour mieux combattre le jeu pathologique.

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Originally posted by kingblake:
And then of course was their cynical use of a lesbian kiss to try and sell the party as progressive.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
I'm not sure that thong underwear is necessarily "perverted" on tweens or teens. From what I've heard, many women (and teens) wear thongs because they find them comfortable (I can't imagine how, but hey, I'll take their word for it) and because they like the fact that it doesn't leave lines under smooth-fitting pants.

I think once thongs become more ordinary and lose their sex fetish reputation as more women (like girls' mothers!) start wearing them regularly as just another underwear choice, then people will stop seeing thongs as sex paraphernalia, and start seeing them as just another undergarment choice.

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Who knew?

...yeah, ok. I'll try harder.

[ 06 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

Rasmus, you are the wings beneath my wind.

"Bad enough we teach these kids all to think alike, now we got to get them to dress alike too."