Following the very close and probably corrupted election result on July 2 there are massive plans afoot for demonstrations and civil disobedience. Manuel Lopez Obrador, who “lost” the election by half a percentage point, refuses to accept the result and has vowed to set up a parallel government. Already the centre of Mexico City has been paralyzed for weeks by the daily mass demonstrations in the Zocalo Plaza de la Constitucion, the shutting down of streets and buildings, and the 12-mile encampment in the downtown.

All this is happening in the prior context of major social and political upheavals in the impoverished state of Oaxaca, where the governor has gone into hiding for his own protection in the face of massive uprisings that began as a teachers’ strike but have swelled in size to a situation of almost dual power, as well as political unrest and violence in several other towns and states throughout the country.

President Vincente Fox is slated to deliver his State of the Union address tomorrow, September 1. A general strike is also scheduled for tomorrow in Oaxaca, the second-poorest of Mexico’s 31 states (Chiapas is the poorest).

September 15 is the national Independence Day of Mexico, and supporters of Lopez Obrador have vowed to disrupt the ceremonial proceedings.

A good background article to the current situation can be found here.

Previous "Mexican Elections" thread (now closed)

[ 17 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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The startlingly incendiary conflict in the southern state of Oaxaca where police death squads roll through the streets before dawn gunning down teachers and supporters grouped together in the Oaxaca Popular Peoples' Assembly (APPO) on orders from Governor Ulisis Ruiz, a white man, is fragrant with racism. Oaxaca is Mexico's most indigenous state, home to 17 distinct Indian cultures, More than 1.5 million citizens of indigenous descent are the majority in 412 out of the state's 572 municipalities or counties. The APPO is comprised of representatives from many of these majority indigenous municipalities and many of their comrades on the barricades, striking members of Section 22 of the National Education Workers Union, teach in the Indian outback ­ bi-lingual "maestros" are traditionally the most radical wing of Section 22....

The Indian-ness of Lopez Obrador's crusade to prevent a tiny white elite personified by Felipe Calderon from assuming the presidency is evidenced each evening at 7 PM when spectators gather by the thousands in Mexico City's Zocalo plaza where they have been encamped for a month. The color of those convened is almost uniformly that of the earth ­ there are few white and even "guero" (lightly pigmented) mestizo faces in the crowd and fewer suits. This reporter often feels like a Martian in this mix ­ but I am redeemed by my age. So many who come to these nightly gatherings come on canes, hobbled by age, tired of being stepped on all their hard lives by the whites who rule this racially polarized land.

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[ 31 August 2006: Message edited by: Farmpunk ]

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Originally posted by Farmpunk:
But to call it a case of the whites wacking the indians is too simple.

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But, how serious is Obrador's accusation that the election results were rigged? No one else seems to be agreeing with him?

Shortly before Fox was due to give his speech, dozens of legislators marched up to the podium, some with banners calling the president a traitor to democracy.

Fox, who leaves office in December, did not try to approach the podium and instead gave a copy of the speech to Congress officials.

It was the first time in Mexican history that opposition legislators have blocked the president's annual speech and marked an escalation of a crisis that has rocked the country since the bitterly contested July 2 presidential election.

"All of the people should be involved in the struggle, but we reject armed activism, because it gives those in power the justification for a wave of repression," Florentino López, spokesman for the Popular Assembly of the People of Oaxaca (APPO), told IPS.

Around 15 supposed guerrilla fighters, armed and wearing face masks, blocked a road in northern Oaxaca Thursday and distributed leaflets in which they expressed support for the APPO and warned that they could enter into action if the authorities crack down on the protests. They claimed to belong to six different insurgent groups.

"We have differences with them (the local guerrilla groups), and we believe that their presence does not benefit us, and that they should not intervene," López said in a telephone interview from the city of Oaxaca, the state capital.

The centre of the city of 300,000 people has been occupied by camps and barricades for over three months, set up by hundreds of local protesters from a number of different social and political organisations that are grouped in the APPO.

The demonstrators have also taken over and shut down all public offices, such as the local legislature, courtroom and city hall. In addition, they have occupied one public and five private radio stations.

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But, how serious is Obrador's accusation that the election results were rigged?

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It is very real. Here's a great article (although a bit long):

Democracy, Mexican style

Here are some of the high-lights:

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At this point Lopez Obrador is not going gentley "into that good night." Given the clear election irregularities, he's demanded the ballot boxes be opened and all votes be recounted manually. He has every right to ask for that and more with what already is known about the fraud committed against him. The preliminary vote totals were manipulated to show PAN candidate Felipe Calderon would be the winner, initially 3 million votes were never counted and only in hindsight 2.5 million of them were added to the totals, 900,000 supposedly void, blank and annulled ballots were declared null, discarded and never included in the official totals, 700,000 additional votes disappeared from missing precincts, thousands of voters were denied their franchise in strong Obrador precincts and much more.

In addition, it was learned that Felipe Calderon's brother-in-law Diego Hildebrando Zavala wrote the vote-counting software, and it's already been hacked. This new discovery is especially disturbing as whoever controls the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE) computer systems can manipulate the vote process, control which votes get counted, which ones don't, and what the final vote tally will be. The opportunity and temptation for fraud was therefore in the hands of the declared winner's close family member and ally with every reason to believe he'd take full advantage.

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Funny how our corporate media never mentions the fact that the right-winger's own brother-in-law wrote the vote counting software.

Aside from being a "north-south" issue, it is also clearly a right/left issue as evidenced by the completely different media coverage of the US funded (George Soros and HRW especially)protests for their Quisling candidates in the Ukraine, Georgia and Lebanon.

Another good comparison is the disdain our media had for the Mexican government's investigation of that couple's murder in Cancun a few months ago. Now these exact same reporters are telling us to trust the very same authorities.

AMLO wasn't the Chavez loving demon the corporate media made him out to be, but after this disgrace you can be sure there are many more hardcore lefties in Mexico.

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No one else seems to be agreeing with him?

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The only countries I'm aware of that have spoken out against this sham have been Venezuela and Bolivia. If Fidel was better, I'm sure he would too, but of course not many will dare crap in big brother's back garden (not even our own opposition parties).

The largest rally had over 2.5 milion people (even the lowest estimate is over 1 milion but of course our media calls it "hundreds" or "thousands"). Most of the city centre has been effectively shut down for weeks now. That's a pretty good sign of agreement.

Although, I've seen better photos and have read better articles, this one isn't too bad to show what it's like right now:

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Originally posted by Farmpunk:
Serious stuff. I work with Mexicans. There are thousands of them here working in Southern Ontario, in agriculture and semi-ag businesses (flowers, gardening). Government program. I've worked alongside Mexicans for 16 years. This is the only time I've ever heard them talk about politics. It is not a subject spoken of up here, for fear of clashes.
It's North-South. Clear division. And these people are not the type to rile up.
Ever heard of The Other Campaign?
No one is paying attention to this right now.
The men and women in Southern Ontario aren't going to say piss all, either. They're making 9.5 pesos to the Canadian dollar right now. I've heard of Mexican worker dorm ghettos around Windsor.

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The evidence is leaking out more and more about reports of ballot tampering and interference by state authorities with people trying to vote for the PRD left coalition.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/17/EDGOBIPTNB1.DTL

And the opposition labour, student and community resistance to the electoral fraud in growing:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/17/EDGOBIPTNB1.DTL

But of course, the corrupt authoritarian corporatist regime of Vicious Vicente Fox, a good buddy and brown-noser to Adolf Bush, says all's fair despite the reports and says there will be no recount.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/17/EDGOBIPTNB1.DTL

AN interesting story in the Columbia Journal, an independent Lower Mainland monthly paper, about an exiled Mexican union leader, who's sought temporary refugee in Vancouver, after he was accused of embezzlement of union fund, despite no evidence. But he says he is working with his union now and plans to return to knock down the fraudulent Fox regime.

http://www.columbiajournal.ca/06-09/index.html

From my sources, here on the ground, I still feel this is a North-South issue. The Zapatistas and the people from states like Chiapas have never jelled with the Northern power structure. Yes, it's South-Left vs Right-North, but from what I understand this is a historical issue that is perhaps being exploited by Obrador. He is still a politician.

The Chiapas Mexicans I've spoken with are convinced that the next president of Mexico, after this current term has ended (or before...) will be Sub-Comandant Marcos. The Other Campaign. He's the a real person for the Southern people, and they have no faith in any of the standard politicians. Obrador included.

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Originally posted by Farmpunk:
...didn't an NGO that watches elections (Democracy Watch?) observe the Mexican election and give it a passing grade?

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One observer organization that has called for a vote-by-vote recount is Global Exchange. Their report can be read HERE (mxfinalreport.doc).

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As though commanded by an invisible sergeant major, the MPs stood in unison and advanced on the stage in a kind of pincer movement.

Armed with photos and banners they took the high ground that was the podium and fired off salvos of abuse against the still absent President Fox.

"A traitor" they called him. It was an extraordinary sight - a kind of tactical victory after weeks of strategic retreat.

"I beg you to return to your seats," came the forlorn cry from the speaker of the House. The chanting continued.

"Vote by vote," the deputies shouted, the now familiar mantra of their long-running campaign to get all the votes in the recent presidential election recounted.

The Mexican people I was standing next to looked on with a mixture of shock and amazement.

"This is our national parliament being taken over", one told me, "I can't believe it."

"Our president is being herded out of Congress," said another.

It was one of those rare moments where order meets chaos and the outcome has yet to be scripted. But this was no fictional drama. It was raw political reality.

Would the thousands of riot police stationed outside to keep away protesters come barging in? Would fighting break out among the deputies or with the president's bodyguards?

It must have been excruciatingly uncomfortable for the president, watching it all from the wings.

For days his aides had said he was determined to deliver his address in person - his political swansong to the nation.

Cool heads from his party advised against it, but he was not going to be deprived of his moment - an occasion to eulogise about his record in office and a platform to promote his successor, Felipe Calderon, almost certainly the country's next leader.

But sufficient numbers of those in the chamber were minded enough to spoil the party and so the president turned round, got into his car and made his speech from the safety of his soon-to-be-vacated presidential residence.

Was all this the start of a revolution?

Even sound-minded Mexicans have flirted with such thoughts for weeks now, ever since the mass street protests started a month ago following the bitterly contested result of the presidential election.

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The Mexican Supreme Court ruled in favour of Calderon.
Now what?

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Not sure, since I haven't had a chance to keep up with the story. But one of the big demands of the public interest forces was to get a recount. The government finally did agree to it.

So, I guess it might be back to the drawing board until the next election (if there even is one. I don't trust the PAN--too close to Corporate America and the Mexican rich elite).

Unless someone finds direct evidence of tampering, I'm not sure if there's still any motive for protesting.

It is reeeeaaaaaallllly close, however, and Calderon did make several progressive/democratic reform-sounding noises during the campaign (job creation, raising conditions for the huge masses of poor people, environmental reforms and not cow towing to the US government, etc.).

Hopefully, the left forces will hold his government to it, and if he doesn't carry through, knock him out next time.

It's too bad the PRD-Left coalition did not win. It would have put the US government in an even weaker position than it is now in terms of staying in control of Latin and South America.

The US government/Corporate America actually seems to be spreading itself thin in terms of military and fiscal resources to effectively keep South America down.

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Not sure, since I haven't had a chance to keep up with the story.

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In an earlier post you wrote this:

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The reports from ground zero that I have been reading say it's huge!

The evidence is leaking out more and more about reports of ballot tampering and interference by state authorities with people trying to vote for the PRD left coalition.

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The second post you wrote this:

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But one of the big demands of the public interest forces was to get a recount. The government finally did agree to it.

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Only 9% of the ballots were re-counted and they refused to re-count another. Another 1.6 milion ballots didn't even get counted at all.

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Unless someone finds direct evidence of tampering, I'm not sure if there's still any motive for protesting.

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Yet in your earlier report you said the allegations of fraud are "huge".

You also forget small details like missing ballots, uncounted ballots, districts declaring results before votes were even counted and the totally unimportant fact that the computer software used to count the ballots was designed by Calderon's brother-in-law.

But you're right. Pack up the tents and tell those people who say: "I hope the Mexican workers sock it to em like nothing seen since Poncho Villa and Emiglio Zapata took em down over a century ago" to get a life and suck it up like the good serfs they were "designed" to be. (BTW, you also wrote that quote).

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It is reeeeaaaaaallllly close, however, and Calderon did make several progressive/democratic reform-sounding noises during the campaign (job creation, raising conditions for the huge masses of poor people, environmental reforms and not cow towing to the US government, etc.).

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"progressive / democratic" ??? You're kidding right? The guy stole the fucking election and you think he's democratic?

Did you also believe the chimp when he scratched his armpit and said he would be a "compassionate conservative"?

Listen steppenwolfe, there are times when you seem to get it and then there are other times were you look like a poster child for a good neo-liberal sheep.

Even your posts contradict each other. Are there two of you? Is that why you have two names?

BTW, here's another thread on "demockracy" American style (for the Allende side of you):

American democracy in Latin America

Mexico needs to rediscover it's revolutionary past and I've been pleasantly surprised by AMLO's refusal to be another Al Gore.

[ 06 September 2006: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]

Maybe he thinks that a campaign of mass political action will do wonders for the morale and political self-confidence of the poor people who comprise most of his power base.

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Meanwhile all polls done in Mexico since the election show that if there was a new election and it was between AMLO and Calderon - calderone would win by a margin of about 60/40... and these were the same polling companies that had it dead even befcore the election or even had AMLO slightly ahead.

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The longer the unrest goes on, the more the public will rally to calderon. I think regrettably that AMLO should give up and concentrate on using the fact that PAN has no where near a majority in either house of congress to prevent calderon from implementing anything and hopefully run again next time.

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I'm not sure where things are at with this now. The polls I read in one of the links I posted showed a majority of people favouring a full re-count, which is the AMLO/PRD demand.

All I have had time to check into in the last couple days is that some sort of recount did take place and the initial report showed Calderon & Co. winning by a tiny margin. I haven't heard anything since then, or any responses to it.

But even if the progressive forces do accept the results, I'm willing to bet that Calderon has, if he's lucky, maybe a year to 18 months before people are in the streets or off the job in protest, since I really doubt, given what his fiscal backers are like, the he'll be able to deliver on any of the key promises he made.

I spoke with an acquaintance who's working in community development in Mexico the other day, who said Calderon was pulling a Liberal-style campaign, as in campaign from the center left, only to govern on the hard right. According to her, the PAN pulled all the stops and started making job creation, alleviating poverty, cleaning up the environment, reducing oil dependency and community safety--all issues they knew were on people's minds, much the same as the center-left. That’s also what I read in the links I posted, and it seems to be a common practice of the corporate right parties. Too bad it worked so well for them there.

But she doubts he can deliver on any of it. She also says there is likely some level of electoral fraud (because there always is), but she's not sure how wide-spread it was or if it can be proven. But the protests against it, as I reported before, were huge, and she thinks they did give the ruling PAN and supporters quite the shock to the point of where they might not be so willing to push the envelope to much.

Also, it seems the country is geographically polarized with the southern half voting overwhelmingly for the AMLO /PRD and the north voting for PAN, with the traditional PRI running a distant third. She also said the so-called "Green" Party in Mexico backed the PAN. Not sure why other than PAN promised some eco-reforms and the GP is, as usual, run by wealthy guilty liberals.

The left also has the usual problem of getting a lot of its supporters to the polls, since many of them are transients and migrant workers and the disabled, who don't usually vote. So despite the polls showing the Left ahead up to the election, this could be a factor in why it didn't win.

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Mexico moved one step closer to a social explosion with the Federal Election Tribunal's decision to crown conservative Felipe Calderon as the victor in the hotly contested presidential elections of July 2. The tribunal acknowledged Calderon's campaign had "violated the norms of public order," particularly with the role played by the business associations in airing rabid TV ads attacking leftist candidate Andres [Manuel] Lopez Obrador. But it refused to question the fundamental legitimacy of the elections or to recount all the votes as demanded by the leftist opposition.

Lopez Obrador immediately rejected the tribunal's ruling, declaring that a "privileged minority" has seized control of Mexico's institutions, "keeping the country in ruins and the majority in poverty". He called for the convening on September 16 of a National Democratic Convention "to form a government that has the legitimacy to reestablish the Republic and constitutional order".

As he spoke tens of thousands of his supporters retained control for the 37th consecutive day of the centre of Mexico City around the Zocalo, the country's main historic plaza. The rest of Mexico is also gripped with unrest, particularly the city of Oaxaca to the south. There some 350 popular organizations have staged a virtual insurrection, taking control of the city and demanding the ouster of the state's governor. While not directly tied to the presidential election, the movement reflects the profound discontent in recent years that has led to similar uprisings in Chiapas, Mexico's southern most state, and in San Salvador Atenco, a city that borders on the capital.

Some political observers, like Denise Dresser of Mexico's Autonomous Technical Institute, recognize the legitimacy of much of the political and economic platform of the left, but lament the "refusal of Lopez Obrador to move to the centre, to modify his demands. He says 'to hell with the institutions' and this could tear the country apart".

But the real problem of Mexico runs much deeper. The entrenched political classes along with the Electoral Tribunal, and the Federal Electoral Institute before it, will not make any concessions to Lopez Obrador because they are afraid the entire system of privileges will collapse if they make even modest concessions.

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With Less than 9 Percent of Precincts Recounted, More than 126,000 Votes Are Found to Have Been Disappeared or Illegally Fabricated
...

* In 3,074 precincts (29 percent of those recounted), 45,890 illegal votes, above the number of voters who cast ballots in each polling place, were found stuffed inside the ballot boxes (an average of 15 for each of these precincts, primarily in strongholds of the National Action Party, known as the PAN, of President Vicente Fox and his candidate, Felipe Calderón).
* In 4,368 precincts (41 percent of those recounted), 80,392 ballots of citizens who did vote are missing (an average of 18 votes in each of these precincts).

* Together, these 7,442 precincts contain about 70 percent of the ballots recounted. The total amount of ballots either stolen or forged adds up to 126,282 votes altered.

* If the recount results of these 10,679 precincts (8.2 percent of the nation’s 130,000 polling places) are projected nationwide, it would mean that more than 1.5 million votes were either stolen or stuffed in an election that the first official count claimed was won by Calderon by only 243,000 votes.

* Among the findings of this very limited partial recount are that in 3,079 precincts where the PAN party is strong and where, in many cases, the Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) of candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador did not count with election night poll watchers, one or more of three things occurred: Either the Federal electoral Institute (IFE, in its Spanish initials) illegally provided more ballots than there are voters in those precincts, or the PAN party stole those extra ballots, or ballots were forged.

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Except that this time, this anti-Castroist and marginal lefty is posing as an Allende(murdered during a U.S.-backed military coup in '73 followed by 16 years of CIA operation condor and right-wing political purges throughout South and Central America mind you) supporter while also supporting bullshit banana republican-style elections in Latin America. He more or less implies in the Mexican election thread that Felipe Calderòn won fair and square and that Mexicans need to get on with the good fight. He's a neutered right-winger, which would make him a Liberal at best. If you can't see through that, then god help us on the left.

[ 07 September 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

"Make the economy scream [in Chile to] prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him" -- "the madman" orders the CIA

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Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
I hope the Mexican workers sock it to em like nothing seen since Poncho Villa and Emiglio Zapata took em down over a century ago.

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On this occasion he's a socialist revolutionary. On another, he said with so many words that green-go money should be able to run candidates and manage Cuban elections like they've done in Latin America and Asia in the recent past. S.A. contradicts himself like V did so often.

Viva la revolucion!

[ 07 September 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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The corruption on the bottom level is just everywhere. I'm sure it's equal for both the politicans and the courts.

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For Stockholm and others who may be having their doubts about the sincerity of the protesters and the complaints about the fraudulent nature of the election in Mexico, take this quote by the Farm Punk to heart.

I got some correspondence from a couple folks in Mexico today. And it looks like the tribunal that did the recount has been unduly "influenced" by some pro-PAN sources, which are looking to keep Mexico under the dictates of the US government/Corporate America.

The tribunal did a partial recount of about nine per cent of the ballots cast in the July election--what's called a poll survey recount. It declared that the vote was legit and that the PAN had won it by an estimated 0.57 per cent margin.

But, apparently, what it didn't announce in its official release (although it's apparently available on its web site, is that it found significant numbers of uncounted ballots, and eye-witness accounts of vote-tampering by PAN officials and a host of other irregularities.

This is discussed in different reports on the Central Obrero Mexico web site:

http://www.rwor.org/

What AMLO/PRD and other groups had been demanding is a full recount, which I agree is what should happen. It doesn't seem the government is willing to go for that, dragging its heels every step of the way.

It seems they are worried that a full recount will either show that the PAN didn't win or that there is too much corruption and tampering to give an accurate result. This was a good piece on the situation:

http://www.alternet.org/story/39763/

If the PAN regime fails to provide a full recount by a truly independent agency (like maybe a UN appointed body), then I guess there'll be a lot more huge protests and maybe even a general strike call. If that happens, I hope the labour and public interest forces in the country put the total boots to the regime.

It will be interesting to watch the Bush regime in the US, in addition to having to spend tens of millions on trying to derail the center-left governments in South America (especially Venezuela) and likely fail, to have to spend tens of millions more trying to keep the PAN regime in power in Mexico--that's in addition to everything else it's directly doing around the globe.

http://www.ueinternational.org/

Here's an example of why it's so important to the US government and its Mexican corporate counterparts to keep a corporatist regime in power in Mexico, regardless of how many votes it gets or doesn't get:

http://www.columbiajournal.ca/06-09/index.html

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Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway

Jerome R. Corsi

Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.

Once complete, the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process. The Mexican trucks, without the involvement of the Teamsters Union, will drive on what will be the nation’s most modern highway straight into the heart of America. The Mexican trucks will cross border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI” system. The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3 million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City.

As incredible as this plan may seem to some readers, the first Trans-Texas Corridor segment of the NAFTA Super Highway is ready to begin construction next year. Various U.S. government agencies, dozens of state agencies, and scores of private NGOs (non-governmental organizations) have been working behind the scenes to create the NAFTA Super Highway, despite the lack of comment on the plan by President Bush. The American public is largely asleep to this key piece of the coming “North American Union” that government planners in the new trilateral region of United States, Canada and Mexico are about to drive into reality.
NASCO, the North America SuperCorridor Coalition Inc., is a “non-profit organization dedicated to developing the world’s first international, integrated and secure, multi-modal transportation system along the International Mid-Continent Trade and Transportation Corridor to improve both the trade competitiveness and quality of life in North America.” Where does that sentence say anything about the USA? Still, NASCO has received $2.5 million in earmarks from the U.S. Department of Transportation to plan the NAFTA Super Highway as a 10-lane limited-access road (five lanes in each direction) plus passenger and freight rail lines running alongside pipelines laid for oil and natural gas. One glance at the map of the NAFTA Super Highway on the front page of the NASCO website will make clear that the design is to connect Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. into one transportation system.

Kansas City SmartPort Inc. is an “investor based organization supported by the public and private sector” to create the key hub on the NAFTA Super Highway. At the Kansas City SmartPort, the containers from the Far East can be transferred to trucks going east and west, dramatically reducing the ground transportation time dropping the containers off in Los Angeles or Long Beach involves for most of the country. A brochure on the SmartPort website describes the plan in glowing terms: “For those who live in Kansas City, the idea of receiving containers nonstop from the Far East by way of Mexico may sound unlikely, but later this month that seemingly far-fetched notion will become a reality.”

The U.S. government has housed within the Department of Commerce (DOC) an “SPP office” that is dedicated to organizing the many working groups laboring within the executive branches of the U.S., Mexico and Canada to create the regulatory reality for the Security and Prosperity Partnership. The SPP agreement was signed by Bush, President Vicente Fox, and then-Prime Minister Paul Martin in Waco, Tex., on March 23, 2005. According to the DOC website, a U.S.-Mexico Joint Working Committee on Transportation Planning has finalized a plan such that “(m)ethods for detecting bottlenecks on the U.S.-Mexico border will be developed and low cost/high impact projects identified in bottleneck studies will be constructed or implemented.” The report notes that new SENTRI travel lanes on the Mexican border will be constructed this year. The border at Laredo should be reduced to an electronic speed bump for the Mexican trucks containing goods from the Far East to enter the U.S. on their way to the Kansas City SmartPort.

The Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) is overseeing the Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC) as the first leg of the NAFTA Super Highway. A 4,000-page environmental impact statement has already been completed and public hearings are scheduled for five weeks, beginning next month, in July 2006. The billions involved will be provided by a foreign company, Cintra Concessions de Infraestructuras de Transporte, S.A. of Spain. As a consequence, the TTC will be privately operated, leased to the Cintra consortium to be operated as a toll-road.

The details of the NAFTA Super Highway are hidden in plan view. Still, Bush has not given speeches to bring the NAFTA Super Highway plans to the full attention of the American public. Missing in the move toward creating a North American Union is the robust public debate that preceded the decision to form the European Union. All this may be for calculated political reasons on the part of the Bush Administration.

A good reason Bush does not want to secure the border with Mexico may be that the administration is trying to create express lanes for Mexican trucks to bring containers with cheap Far East goods into the heart of the U.S., all without the involvement of any U.S. union workers on the docks or in the trucks.

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quote:

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A good reason Bush does not want to secure the border with Mexico may be that the administration is trying to create express lanes for Mexican trucks to bring containers with cheap Far East goods into the heart of the U.S., all without the involvement of any U.S. union workers on the docks or in the trucks.

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I think the largest reason is that big business and the wealthy support base of the Republican party wish to keep the supply of cheap Mexican and Central American labour flowing into the U.S. Private contract carpenters and semi-skilled tradesmen in the U.S. are complaining about having to compete with Hispanic workers who are undercutting everyone from hardwood floor sanders to house framers. An American tradesman on talk live radio recently complained about going to a job site to bid on sanding hardwood floors. At a stop light, an Hispanic rival in the same sector honked his horn and gave him the finger. He says he doesn't bother bidding on jobs when he knows he'll be undercut by rival workers no matter how low he bids to a point where the job just isn't worth it.

amusing and very true. I watch CNN occasionally and they talk nothing but how evil illegal immigrants are.

Like you said,the Repub leadership is trying hard to have it both ways. But they cant play this game forever - the country will be polarized eventually and they will take flak.

I think you're right, and Washington is always conscious of what's happening in its backyard. I think they've been managing Latin America like empires did with colonies long ago. Working conditions and standard of living for Mexicans and Central Americans in general are very poor to appalling. Workers and people in general in those countries want to go anywhere but where they are. So they go to the U.S. where they can earn money to send home to their families. And they take jobs at lower wages than Americans would normally accept. So it has a downward pressure effect on American wages in general. Big business appreciates that effect.

Inequality is high and social unrest increasing throughout Latin America since Washington-IMF prescriptions for neo-liberal economic reforms have failed to close gaps between rich and poor. Inequality is higher in Latin America than any of the first world OECD and even Eastern European nations today.

Over the last ten years or so, the EU surpassed U.S. capitalism as the principal source of foreign investment and trade in South America. China is also securing interests in South America's raw materials to supply its own industrial expansion, and the Chinese government has promised to spend over $100 billion dollars on road building, sea ports and other infrastructure to facilitate trade in the south of our hemisphere. And Washington has their eye on all of what's happening in their "backyard" for sure. This Bush regime has increased aid to Latin America in recent years, and most of it will be going to the militaries in those countries. I think a storm is brewing. I think it will be time, once again, for Latinos to make a stand.

[ 10 September 2006: Message edited by: DownWithAbrahamism ]

quote:

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Originally posted by DownWithAbrahamism:
The totalitarian fucks in PRI should be expelled from the Socialist International and be lynched on the streets of Mexico City.

---

Hundreds of thousands of supporters of Mexico's leftwing leader, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, elected him head of a parallel government that plans to oppose president-elect Felipe Calderon's administration for the next six years.

"It should be clear why we've taken this road," said Mr Lopez Obrador. "It's not because of a whim or anything personal ... this is the firm and honourable response to those who have converted our political institutions into a grotesque farce."

The crowd agreed not to recognise Mr Calderon as the nation's leader, and to create a parallel government in Mexico City, complete with its own cabinet. Mr Lopez Obrador will be sworn in as "legitimate president" on November 20, the Mexican Revolution holiday. Mr Calderon will be inaugurated on December 1.

quote:

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In recent days Oaxaca Governor Ulises Ruiz has publicly called on the federal government to send federal police or the army to quell the massive protests that have shut down state government in Oaxaca. Meanwhile Oaxaca State police have been witnessed and filmed carrying out armed raids against the protesters, shooting into marches and encampments.

The protest coalition “Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca” (APPO in Spanish) has wide support amongst the population in Oaxaca City, Oaxaca State and even across the country. And while most of the APPO actions have been civil in nature, the organization has maintained a position of using self-defense when police attack or make efforts to lift their encampments. Due to the number of APPO protesters and the scale of their organization across the city, it is very likely that any attempt to forcibly remove protesters would result in a serious and potentially lethal confrontation injurious to APPO members as well as uninvolved local residents.

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quote:

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Only six short months ago, the town of Texcoco, in Mexico State, was made infamous throughout Mexico and the world as the place where one of the worst police massacres in recent Mexican history began.

Today the town of Texcoco is making history yet again, but this time as the site of an historic encounter of representatives from three of the Mexican left's most significant political movements: The Other Campaign of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN), the Peoples' Front in Defense of the Land (FPDT) from San Salvador Atenco, and the Popular Assembly of the People of Oaxaca (APPO), comprised of teachers and social movements from Oaxaca. On Friday, the three organizations pledged mutual support to fight for the liberation of political prisoners and to create a united front against municipal, state and federal authorities.

With less than a month and a half to go before the controversial inauguration of rightwing President-Elect Felipe Calderon, today's encounter in Texcoco underscores the strength and willingness of the Mexican left to forge alliances and to defy the political establishment in the battle for Mexico's social and political destiny in years to come.

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[ 26 October 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

quote:

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Gunmen opened fire in Mexico's colonial city of Oaxaca on Friday, killing three people including a U.S. journalist near road blocks set up by leftists pushing to topple a state governor.

Brad Will, a cameraman working with Indymedia New York, was shot in the chest and died before reaching the hospital, the independent news group said on its Web site.

Oaxaca's state prosecutor's office said two others, including a protesting teacher, were also shot dead.

The journalist died after a bullet hit him in the torso in one of at least two shootouts in the city. The teacher, Emilio Alonso, was shot in a separate attack.

Nine people, mostly protesters, have been killed in the conflict that began in Oaxaca state five months ago, when striking teachers and leftist activists occupied much of the state capital, a popular tourist destination.

Several people were wounded in the shootings on Friday.

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Both are armed bullies bent on using whatever means that have to further their notorious goals.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
But it's nice to have your input all the same, Harry.

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Anybody who comes here and condemns "both sides" of this struggle as "armed bullies" had better have a good explanation.

I am not impressed by the fact that you and your fancy fishing boat have been to Oaxaca.

"The federal government indicated that it had no intention of letting the protesters take back the city. Interior Secretary Carlos Abascal said the federal forces would stay until order had been established.

Earlier, residents and business owners held marches to thank federal police for clearing away the demonstrators, who had kept Oaxaca city under siege since May, shutting down businesses and driving away the thousands of tourists who traditionally are drawn to the colonial city of 275,000.

''Let them stay,'' Edith Mendoza, a 40-year-old housewife, said of the police. ``We were held hostage for five months.''"

As I said I have had run ins with the Teacher Goon Squads in the past-they are a nasty ugly bunch of thugs as bad as any non-drug traffickers in Mexico.
Anyone defending those miscreants without having ever been to Oaxaca is somewhat mixed up-to be polite about it

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:
Having lived and travelled in Oaxaca state and spent months in the city I can say without fear of contradiction that this is all playing out exactly like the Juchitan rebellion-which few remember now but was equally as nasty and fruitless.

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[ 31 October 2006: Message edited by: Harry Chorpita ]

But that is really the issue of politics, getting behind the thuggery, and seeing what the essential political differneces are between the thugs. Why they are being thugs, other than just because they are thugs.

quote:

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What we are seeing in Oaxaca is a breakdown of political system that is completely corrupt and deliberately abuses its citizens at will, using the legitimacy of the state to impose a government that only uses power to advance a personal agenda and that of a very small political oligarchy. Since the start of the present government it was characterized by repression of political leaders, immediately killing them and imposing its repressive mode of government.

The result of the events which are occurring as we speak began with an every year demonstration by the teacher´s syndicate. In the 14th of June, the state police attacked the teachers which were at the zocalo in a permanent demonstration.

The response from the citizenry was immediate, hundreds of people joined the teachers strike and saw an opportunity to stop the continued abuses from the government.

I can only describe what is occurring as catharsis of the population, especially of the immense poor population of the city, which survive.

After the attack by the state and the immense response from the population the most remarkable event in the politics of the movement has been the formation of a popular assembly of the pueblos of Oaxaca also known as APPO.

The APPO organizations have been capable of resisting all the attacks from the state government, from spots attacking the protesters as a bunch of radicals to the death squads sent to kill people that were protesting at night.

The response from the APPO was to develop barricades to stop the death squads. This resulted in a historical and animated political culture, with also a strong popular support.

In the recent days, the violence escalated in one single day in which the international reporter died at the hands of the mercenaries payed by the governor.

Yesterday, there was an intervention from the federal police after the multiple deaths and probably also after the international pressure after the death of one international reporter. The federal police killed at least 4 people and raped one woman in the intervention. The response from the APPO is to maintain the protest until the governor resigns and the political system is reformed. Source

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quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:
Yes I understand what you're saying but when said thugs are holding a city hostage/terrorising it's inhabitants it's hard to care about their motivation.

One wants them removed from one's life as quickly and expeditiously as possible.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:
So who among you has been to Juchitan?

[ 31 October 2006: Message edited by: Harry Chorpita ]

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I have been through Oaxaca - and I think there is more than enough reason there to tear the whole system down. Becuase people that don't live in the poverty of the majority don't think so, doesn't convince me in any way.

quote:

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Looks like Harry extricated his virtual self from this thread as as quickly and expeditiously as possible.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hawkins:

I have been through Oaxaca - and I think there is more than enough reason there to tear the whole system down. Becuase people that don't live in the poverty of the majority don't think so, doesn't convince me in any way.

APPO has exercised extreme restraint in the past months, and this 'armed thuggery' you speak of has been exercised by the forces who have aligned themselves against the people supporting APPO. How many non APPO supporters have been killed? Their self defense is hardly thuggery.

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I can see why one might be tempted to make such a crack when confronted with a similar kind of presumptious stygmatization being made about your posting habits from Fidal, but Hawkins and Fidel are two seperate people, and simply because they post on the same board, which you are new too, does not mean they think the same, or can be painted with the same brush, whatever the source of your ire.

To be honest, I am begining to find the presumption that you, and your experiences, whatever they might be are somehow more valid and perspicacious than those of others here, {just because, apparenlty} a little perplexing. This is a particularly curious given that your enquiries about the experiences, knowledge and insights of others on this board has only been very peripheral, and seems based on your "intuitive" response, and not any kind of thorough enquirey.

In other words, I am wondering who is it that could justly be accused of touring the world by looking through the window of a bus, Hawkins, or yourself?

In fact, the very peripheral nature of your inquirey regarding the experiences of people here, and your presumptions about the extent of their knowldege, and what they have seen and know, only indicates to me that your own understanding of the Mexican scene, might be of similarly peripheral type, and possibly not very insightful and deep in themselves, for the very same reasons.

"I see tough swarthy Mexican men in a group, they must be bullies, so therefore I will stay away." More or less.

Forgive me if I am wrong. Perhaps you can enlighten us further by telling us about your first hand discussions with union organizers, or people you have met there.

[ 02 November 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

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Also I can't post from work so am quite unlike many here who are literally being paid to post.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:
....all and sundry are a bunch of latte sipping caviar socialist who have done nothing, talked to no one, and only occasionally poke their heads out of their Noam Chomsky books to look out the window of the bus when travelling.[ 02 November 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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As it happens I'm in the process of making Salmon Caviar as I post!

quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:
...."I see tough swarthy Mexican men in a group, they must be bullies, so therefore I will stay away."....[ 02 November 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Quite a bit tougher than your pedantic and self important on line persona in fact.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
Many of the 'day-posters' here are self-employed like myself. We're actually paying to post by taking time out of our workday, Mr. Smartass.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:

Quite a bit tougher than your pedantic and self important on line persona in fact.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Ha! Harry's never been in a shack up North in January with a bunch of drunken diamond drillers watching the hockey game.

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'Massive' Unrest?

More like 'lLeftist Thugs Hold Honest Mexicans Hostage at the Point of a Pistola'

Mexico has at least 110 million people-how many took to the streets in Oaxaca?
5,000?
10,000?

Those who were trying their best to wreck the everyday lives of honest Oaxacans are being routed out now.

Maybe they can find shelter with their comrades-in-arms in Juchitan

[ 03 November 2006: Message edited by: Harry Chorpita ]

Or just trying to get more attention?

Anyway, I assume you were there as a tourist. Not Having a silver/spoon background is beside the point.
How can you objectively judge Oaxacan politics, especially given that its so far away from the border? Its in the impoverished South,y'know. Its known that people around Acapulco havent benefitted much from the tourist buildup,unlike the elite.Oaxaca seems to be close.

You seem obsessed with locking up these protesters. Did you notice that 3 people, including US journalist,were shot by the police?

quote:

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Originally posted by BetterRed:

Anyway, I assume you were there as a tourist.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BetterRed:
Ever heard of Porfirio Diaz?

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quote:

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Originally posted by BetterRed:
Ever heard of Porfirio Diaz?

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quote:

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Have you ever looked up from eating in an open Mexican restaurant to find some street kid's eyes fixed on what's on your plate? -- Harry Chorpita

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They are reall eye openers. I mean it sounds almost as bad as Toronto.

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:

You assume wrongly-I was there promoting small scale eco tourism.

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Meaning he owns a boat that he rents out to tourists for fishing. The "eco" part is that he makes them throw the endangered species back in.

Check out his profile if you want a good look see at what the "eco-torism" promoter is up too, skinny legs and all.

[ 04 November 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

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Since I'm in the mood I'd also like to take issue with the Subject Line of this thread.
'Massive' Unrest?

More like 'lLeftist Thugs Hold Honest Mexicans Hostage at the Point of a Pistola'

---

I got a better idea for a name. How about:

Oppressive Tyranny Murders Teachers and Harry Applauds

Here's more info on the murders and the regime itself:

[URL] http://narconews.com/Issue41/article1898.html [/URL]
[URL] http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/136420/index.php [/URL]

quote:

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Mexico has at least 110 million people-how many took to the streets in Oaxaca?
5,000?
10,000?

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Not sure. But it clearly took a lot of courage to stand up to your beloved brutal fraudulent regime that kills and jails indiscriminately.

And of those 110 million, how many actually did vote for that US corporate-funded authoritarian cult known as the PAN? We won't know for sure since there was so much fraud.

How many of those people ever get a chance to vote in a country with such a history of violent corporatist regimes?

Then we get this:

quote:

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I have a life a job and a heavy fishing habit.
Also I can't post from work so am quite unlike many here who are literally being paid to post.

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Given your elitist corporate apologist character, I doubt you even know what a job is--unless it means sitting on your lazy butt sucking money out of other people's pockets (like the corporatist regimes).

And where do you get this idea people here are paid to post? I don't get that at all. You can add slander to your resume here.

quote:

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As it happens I'm in the process of making Salmon Caviar as I post!

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Yep, as lazy, rich and spoiled as they come.

quote:

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FYI-It's a rare Mexican indeed who doesn't fit the description of 'swarthy ' and they are often tough characters to deal with.
Quite a bit tougher than your pedantic and self important on line persona in fact.

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Look in the mirror. Pedantic and self-important, not to mention elitist, describes you here fairly well. It's clear from your posts here you certainly don't fit into that Mexican crowd at all.

quote:

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I grew up in a bush town north of North Bay and my first job after leaving high school was working for Inco in Levack Mine-3200, 3400, 3600 & 3750 feet underground.
There were/are no silver spoons in my background.

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If this is even remotely true then you might consider showing a little respect for the teachers and their concerns. They may not be totally right in how they deal with the situation, but the fact is they earn their living honestly by doing useful productive work, unlike the corporate elite and the regime there, and their concerns need to be addressed, not gunned down.

quote:

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you might consider showing a little respect for the teachers and their concerns....the fact is they earn their living honestly by doing useful productive work

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[ 04 November 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
The next big hot spot in Latin American politics is Mexico.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
Were you really old enough to remember when LAURIER was prime minister, Harry?

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[ 04 November 2006: Message edited by: Harry Chorpita ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:

Something is dreadfully wrong with the way the Teachers Union is run in case you hadn't noticed.
Oh that's right-you've never even met a Teacher's Union Goon so WTF do you know about the situation anyway?

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Tell us more about those knuckle-dragging chalkboard jockeys. Are they anything like Henry Ford's goon squad in Dearborn Michigan in the 1930's ?.

Do your striking knowledge nazis resemble the strange-looking people who Saskatchewan farmers noticed driving across the prairies in black limo's to where Tommy Douglas was giving a speech about medicare way back when. I think one witness said they looked like bath tubs with suits on.

Or are your bookish thugs anything like Harold Chamberlain aka "Hal Banks", a criminal with ties to the mob who came to Canada in the late 1940's to breakup "communism" in our Seafarer's Union ?.

Are you for real or WTF, Harry ?. You must try harder, because I should tell you now that most of the people who frequent this board can see all the way through this drivel you're nailing up here as a poor substitute for your own thoughts. Use your own mind and words, Harry. It's easy once you get the nack of it. That's a nice boat, btw. Fisherman's motto: Early to bed, early to rise. Fish like hell, and make up lies.

[ 04 November 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:

The question was about the failure in Juchitan and seeing the countryside through a bus window is hardly qualifies as inside knowledge.

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Its a failure to attempt to have a democracy, where the people actually participate in making decisions? I could care less about how you characterise my experiences, I don't find your's to be particularly enlightening. I was also in Chiapas in 1993, we did get to visit various indigenous communities around San Cristobel, and particularly vivid memory: heavily armed police/military occupying a town centre rounding up individuals, placing them underarrest because the locals had decided to stage a protest. A much more peaceful protest than what was to come a few months later. . . I am sorry but if you spent that much time in this part of Mexico with the people, actually thinking about the circumstances that child who you offered your tortilla to will have to live under, and take the time to understand the political motivations of the groups like the COCEI maybe you would think differently than you do when people in this part of the world do protest.

You characterise them as thugs - which to me also makes me think you believe them to be stupid, unaware of their own circumstances, and inherently violent people. You pretend that these movements are small and inconsequential to the actual lives of the people around them, except that they 'hold the city hostage'. Their lives have been held hostage for 500+ years, they live in poverty in an extremely rich part of the world, they get shot at and imprisoned when they attempt to raise their voice, and on top of it all they have jerks like yourself who characterise them for being thugs when they finally have had enough and attempt to do something about it.

Do you think that the poor of Mexico should just "remember their place"?

quote:

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Tell us more about those knuckle-dragging chalkboard jockeys.

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quote:

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Are they anything like Henry Ford's goon squad in Dearborn Michigan in the 1930's ?.

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quote:

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I was also in Chiapas in 1993, we did get to visit various indigenous communities around San Cristobel, and particularly vivid memory: heavily armed police/military occupying a town centre rounding up individuals, placing them underarrest because the locals had decided to stage a protest. A much more peaceful protest than what was to come a few months later. . . I am sorry but if you spent that much time in this part of Mexico with the people, actually thinking about the circumstances that child who you offered your tortilla to will have to live under

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quote:

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Why ARE you gloating about the defeat of the Juchitan rebellion so much, Harry?

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quote:

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Do you think that the poor of Mexico should just "remember their place"?

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quote:

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What is it about the Mexican status quo that you find so wonderfully defensible?

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[ 05 November 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

The fact that you were amazed by the humility of a child who has been so oppressed that they felt that they should only take a tortilla... how amazing! That's how succesful Mexico has become in teaching people 'their place'. You would rather the people of Oaxaca only asked for a tortilla when they should be getting schools, fair wages, clinics, jobs, respect, rights, etc..

Those in Oaxaca know a lot better than you do that they are hungry, and that not recieving wages and making money is making life 'more difficult', and despite that they continue to support the protests. Doesn't that atleast require you to think for a second? That they are so sick and tired of being abused that they will cut their meagre lifeline for a chance for a chance at some sort of justice?

[ 05 November 2006: Message edited by: Hawkins ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hawkins:
Don't worry Harry, only 5 people showed up for the protest today...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hawkins:

The fact that you were amazed by the humility of a child who has been so oppressed that they felt that they should only take a tortilla... how amazing! That's how succesful Mexico has become in teaching people 'their place'.

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quote:

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[i]"Ask for work. If they do not give you work, ask for bread. If they do not give you work or bread, take bread." -- Emma Goldman

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[ 05 November 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

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I am glad Harry you miss the point once again - you think I am ignorant of the world, that people get beat up and imprisoned for protesting?

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You think I don't know that there is difference between Chiapas and Oaxaca?

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quote:

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when the Zapatistas marched onto Mexico DF, one of the places they stopped and were welcomed was Juchitan.

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quote:

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The fact that you were amazed by the humility of a child who has been so oppressed that they felt that they should only take a tortilla... how amazing!

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quote:

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You would rather the people of Oaxaca only asked for a tortilla when they should be getting schools, fair wages, clinics, jobs, respect, rights, etc..

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quote:

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Those in Oaxaca know a lot better than you do that they are hungry, and that not receiving wages and making money is making life 'more difficult', and despite that they continue to support the protests.

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quote:

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they are so sick and tired of being abused that they will cut their meager lifeline for a chance for a chance at some sort of justice?

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[ 05 November 2006: Message edited by: Harry Chorpita ]

If people will protest because they recieve tortillas and beans, I think you should realise that there is a problem here, and its not the protestors (though that characterisation is woefully incorrect, since it is not the reason why people are protesting). If people protest so that they can get a meal - there is a problem. How can you acknowledge on one hand the brutality and risk of protesting (which you continue to pretend I am ignorant of, which I have also reported because I am sick of your patronizing comments) and on the other think people will protest because they get tortillas and beans? Put the two together, and if you are going to take that great risk just to get food in your belly (again your assertion as to the 'reason', obviously I think there is even more problems happening than this) you have to be extremely hungry with little prospect of food.

What proof do you have that these protestors are 'paid stooges' ? What proof do you have? None. Not that you could provide a good answer as to where the resources came from to pay those stooges. From the rich elites support URO and the corporatist backers of the PRI? It is almost hilarious that you make the accusation that poor people are using PRI corporatist practices against a PRI governor... almost except that over 10 people have been killed, over a hundered detained or disappeared, and hundreds injured. So again, why are thousands (which for those who actually have been following the story, the protest was into the tens of thousands according to ElUniversal and ElJornada, both sources that Harry here probably will again dismiss as being crazy, unreputable journalists with no proof to support his claim) of people protested today? Why have thousands protested for months (at least 77 000 teachers have been on strike, but many many more from Oaxaca, the indigenous communities, and womens groups), setup barricades in the city? For tortillas and beans says Harry, free handouts of tortillas and beans... Again Harry, at what point would you risk being shot, beaten, or disappeared for tortillas and beans?

quote:

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Something is dreadfully wrong with the way the Teachers Union is run in case you hadn't noticed.
Oh that's right-you've never even met a Teacher's Union Goon so WTF do you know about the situation anyway?

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Cut the dramatization, loser. My experience with anyone who uses the term "union goon" couldn't care less about how the Teachers Union is run, or why they supposedly have to go on strike every year or what their issues are.

People who use that term are always democracy-hating corporate brown-nosers who want to take people's rights away, and the fact that unions are historically the most effective ways of gaining democratic rights, they are subject to this type of slander.

quote:

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Narco News?
You're using Al Giordano as a quotable source?
That's beyond laughable.

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Well, so you don't like the media and the article I posted. Hey, it quotes Mexican government sources, along with the democratic opposition and the teachers, as well as international observers. That alone makes it more credible than the one-sided fluff reported by Fox News, or CNN or the Global CanWest tyranny of lies here in Canada.

Still don't like it? Well then tell me, smart boy. Is there anything in that article or any of the other media sources listed here that you can counter with fact--as in verified factual information with sources and links--instead of the usual bald-faced lies and totally unsubstantiated assertions?

Didn't think so. Why would you bother? Anybody who refuses to even respect the teachers' practical work and recognize their right to raise and act on their concerns couldn't care less about the truth, in my experience.

You are right about one thing, though. There are definitely thugs in control of the area. They are the Mexican government and its murdering goons.

Here's a link on the mass protest by the "paid stooges" and "goons" who are the citizens of Oaxaca (It's a commercial US media source, but I'm sure you'll just dismiss it simply because I posted it):

[URL] http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4311315.html [/URL]

Here a quote from the story:

quote:

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Among the nine people killed during the Oaxaca conflict was activist-journalist Bradley Roland Will, 36, of New York, who was shot in the stomach while filming a gunbattle on Oct. 27.

Two officials of a municipality on the outskirts of Oaxaca City are in custody in connection with Will's killing.

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And what you fail to recognize, Harry, is that those elections were clearly stolen.

There is nothing in the present Mexican situation, a situation that is heavily militarized and repressive, that justifies your smugness about democratic solutions OR your contempt for protesters, Harry. If it weren't for the protesters in Mexico, the poor wouldn't have any hope. The people who cheered the police in Oaxaca damn sure aren't workers or supporters of workers.

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:
In fact if you'd read my posts you'd know I've given people jobs and funded social welfare projects-self help is the best help in case you didn't know.

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We have faith in you, Supply Side Harry. If they are prosperous on earth, then that's God rewarding them for their rugged individualism. But if they live in grinding poverty, then it's God frowning on them for their reliance on handouts.

quote:

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The protesters are for the most part paid stooges and rice Christians-you didn't know that?

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quote:

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In fact if you'd read my posts you'd know I've given people jobs and funded social welfare projects-self help is the best help in case you didn't know.

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Well The Trickle Down Terrorist is really showing his uselessness now—barfing up the same old worn out lies to justify his existence in life.

So now he’s “given” people jobs. What an act of charity.

The truth of course is he, like any other corporate boss, doesn’t “give” anyone a job or anything else. Rather, he hires people to work based solely on whether HE thinks they can do the job, because He dictatorially runs the shop and HE needs to exploit their labour and skills to produce useful goods and services to meet the market demand and give the business its value. He then sits on his butt and collects the surplus and tries to get rich while playing dictator over the shop.

The fact is it is working people, first, via their labour that create the useful things that people need and want that gives business its value, and, second, via their trade and efforts to meet their needs as consumers create the markets that stimulate economic activity in the first place.

That’s what makes the economy happen. This guy and similar types to nothing but exploit that process and blackmail people with their own money. That’s why there is so much misery, poverty, oppression and repression everywhere, including in Oaxaca: to protect and maintain privileged parasites and dictators like him.

That’s why the cops are out breaking heads and shooting people. That’s why Calderon & Co. rigged the election and are now curtailing what little democracy there is there.

Hiring people/paying them wages is 'wrong'-carping on the net and supporting thugs is 'right'-for the left anyway.

quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Chorpita:

Do you ever wonder why so few take you/your views seriously?

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quote:

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Now I understand!

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Heh! Now there’s a laugh. You clearly don’t understand anything. Your kind rarely do.

If you did, you would make such goofy comments like these:

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Hiring people/paying them wages is 'wrong'-carping on the net and supporting thugs is 'right'-for the left anyway.

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If you had enough brains and connection to real life, you would know that I said hiring people to exploit their labour under your coercive rule to advance yourself at their expense is wrong.

As for hiring thugs, your dictatorial parasitic kind have an exclusive monopoly on that. It’s what keeps you in power. Your role in Mexico is an example.

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Do you ever wonder why so few take you/your views seriously?

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Well, you sure are the typical self-centered spoiled rich brat. Just because you’re too greedy and stupid to take democracy, especially in the economy, seriously, you automatically assume no one else does.

I almost pity you for your spoiled privileged life that clearly blinds you to the real world, its problems and the practical honest solutions many people are working on.

Such a narrow lazy un-compassionate and selfish existence is truly saddening. It’s why you can show such disrespect for working people and laugh off the brutality your thugs carry out against them.

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I said hiring people to exploit their labour under your coercive rule to advance yourself at their expense is wrong.

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Maybe you might just treat the fish you catch better than you treat the people who work and pay for your privileged expensive existence.

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