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Author Topic: Venezuela and Iran
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 21 August 2006 08:03 AM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From the New York Times, August 20, 2006: “We stand by Iran at every moment, in any situation,” Mr. Chávez said in Tehran, where he received the golden High Medallion of the Islamic Republic from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Venezuela, Syria and Cuba were the only countries to oppose referring Iran to the United Nations Security Council at a meeting in February of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Noise
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posted 21 August 2006 08:07 AM      Profile for Noise     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chavez going for the spotlight? Just trying to piss off Americans that much more? Lil of both?

He also cut diplo ties to Israel midway through the Israeli-Lebanese month long war too.


From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 21 August 2006 03:51 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chavez shouldn't be so cozy with Ahmadinejad and the clerical powerbrokers in Iran. Oh well. The enemy of my enemy could be a rainy day friend I suppose. Washington itself has a history of dealing with the devil.

Brazil is enriching uranium. And North Korea has nukes but no oil. Hmmmm I can see it all now ... boogleyoo! boogleyoo!

They'd best get on the phone to round up a coalition of willing third world capitalist despots. And then pay Hill & Knowlton to find another nurse to tell tall tales about soldiers, babies and incubators before a ten year medieval siege of another oil-rich desert nation and leading up to a fireworks display dubbed shock and appall with the U.S. military beckoning women and children to banquets of death and destruction in the middle of the night.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 21 August 2006 06:29 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nice to see the New York Times isn't happy. Funny how all these anti-Chavez articles come from the same US based / funded sources. He spent six days in China as well maybe he wants to invade Taiwan too.

Of course the logical view is that it is only natural that the countries margalinised and threatened by Washington will talk and work together since the US through the World Bank and IMF have tried to financially strangle them. To give just one example: Sweden stopped selling some equipment to Venezuela due to pressure from Washington. So their only option is to tradfe with each other or to fall behind. But that would be too logical and would just muddy the "he's evil" spin of the story.

Oooh he's so scaaarrry!


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Phred
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posted 23 August 2006 09:24 AM      Profile for Phred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or go knocking on Russia and China's doors to see what they can get cause they don't give a rats ass about what the US says.
From: Ottawa | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Noise
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posted 23 August 2006 09:32 AM      Profile for Noise     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelles got it:
quote:
Chavez going for the spotlight? Just trying to piss off Americans that much more? Lil of both?

Might include a bit of my enemy's enemy is my friend, but I'd think this is almost entirely anti-american imperialism.

Hugo gos for spotlight, Newyork Times rushes to provide it.


From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 23 August 2006 11:28 AM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
New York Times is actually a left-of-center American publication, and it is loathed by the American right. They almost always endorse the more left-wing candidate.

As for Chavez, is he a socialist of principle or an anti-american populist? Time will tell.


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 23 August 2006 11:48 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If the NYT is left of center, then Nixon was a far-left moonbat.

The NYT is neither left nor right. It is pro-imperial and Amero-supremecist. It will support whatever editorial position filters through its wealthy elite worldview. Just peek at their disgusting pro-Israel coverage of the assault on Lebanon.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 23 August 2006 12:14 PM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whatever the political stance of the NYT might be, one has to be concerned about any political figure who says, "We stand by Iran at every moment, in any situation." Did Chavez stand by Iran in their treatment of Kazemi? Does Chavez stand by Iran in their treatment of Jahanbegloo? "Any situation" means any situation, not just most situations: so I guess the answer to my questions is, sadly, yes.

[Edited for a typo.]

[ 23 August 2006: Message edited by: Martha (but not Stewart) ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 23 August 2006 01:57 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Martha (but not Stewart):
Did Chavez stand by Iran in their treatment of Kazemi? Does Chavez stand by Iran in their treatment of Jahanbegloo? "Any situation" means any situation, not just most situations: so I guess the answer to my questions is, sadly, yes.


Martha, Ottawa stood by a shadow government in Washington as the CIA toppled democratically-elected socialist leaders and aided in the murder of thousands of key socialists in Iran and Iraq over the course of the last 50 years. Fundamentalists promising social democracy to the people and then reverting to suppression and militant rule is a tried and true formula since at least the Nazis time in the sun. Washington and shadow government have engineered the spread of militant Islam as a method for suppressing whole nations of people and abating the advancement of secular socialism in those countries. It's all just a game to them and costing the American and British taxpayers billions of dollars and social democracy at home in the west.

And our Liberal and Conservative leaders in Canada have arraigned and signed trade deals with U.S.-backed puppets in Latin American countries where "diplomacy" is front and centre with kick-back, graft, corruption and gross human rights violations. Paul Martin and company were accomplices to the CIA's overthrow of a democratically-elected leader in Haiti recently. Our support was quiet but pro-active with a loan of Canadian police officers and military personel.

[ 23 August 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 23 August 2006 02:17 PM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
Martha, Ottawa stood by a shadow government in Washington as the CIA toppled democratically-elected socialist leaders and aided in the murder of thousands of key socialists in Iran and Iraq over the course of the last 50 years.

I agree with you entirely. This is why I would never make heroes out of any of our prime ministers or any of the United States's presidents. Nor would I make a hero out of Hugo Chavez.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 24 August 2006 09:02 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The NYT is neither left nor right. It is pro-imperial and Amero-supremecist. It will support whatever editorial position filters through its wealthy elite worldview. Just peek at their disgusting pro-Israel coverage of the assault on Lebanon.

Skookums! As former subscriber to the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, when I lived in the US for four years back in the 1980s, I when I remember those publications, the term "left of center" doesn't even exist, let alone come to mind.

It's true they are generally more "liberal" in the US sense of the term on social issues, which is why the religious right hates them. But "left?!" Not in this universe.

The qualities both those publications have, or at least had when I was reading them regularly, is that they are, despite their servile pro-corporate capitalist dogma, far more accurate than the Global Canwest garbage papers we have to put up with here in Canada (like the Nazi Post or, in BC, the Sun and Province or Times Colonialist).


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 24 August 2006 09:03 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As far as Chavez moves around Iran, I think it’s a real blunder, in the sense that he’s overdoing it. I’m a strong supporter of the Bolivarian coalition government in Venezuela and its economic and political democratization agenda. But on this one, Chavez blew it and comes off even looking like a clown.

It’s one thing for him to come out denouncing even the hint of a US military invasion of Iran. It’s quite another to let himself stand shoulder to shoulder with a totalitarian extreme-right-wing regime that happily butchers people whose views and values are even remotely similar to Chavez’ (and according to Amnesty International, that’s a lot of people).

That regime has an admitted open hate-on for any serious degree of democracy and stands against just about everything the Venezuelan government stands for.

Right now, that regime is opposed to the Bush Administration. But I was recently told by an Iranian human rights activist exiled in Canada that there are some quiet moves on the part of the Iranian government to butter up to the Bush regime and perhaps cut some deals—like maybe going back to doing some of the US government/Corporate America’s dirty work in return for staying in power and continuing to do what it does now.

If they succeed we’ll see yet another miraculous reversal in the corporate media and the US government. Suddenly Iran will somehow see the error of its ways and become the good guy—just like in the 1980s, when Saddam Hussein, despite gassing the Kurdish populations and jailing labour and human rights activists by the thousands, was the great moderate hero in the war against Iran.

And sadly, lots of folks will buy it, just like they always do.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
ghlobe
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posted 24 August 2006 09:25 PM      Profile for ghlobe        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:

Right now, that regime is opposed to the Bush Administration. But I was recently told by an Iranian human rights activist exiled in Canada that there are some quiet moves on the part of the Iranian government to butter up to the Bush regime and perhaps cut some deals—like maybe going back to doing some of the US government/Corporate America’s dirty work in return for staying in power and continuing to do what it does now.

If they succeed we’ll see yet another miraculous reversal in the corporate media and the US government. Suddenly Iran will somehow see the error of its ways and become the good guy—just like in the 1980s, when Saddam Hussein, despite gassing the Kurdish populations and jailing labour and human rights activists by the thousands, was the great moderate hero in the war against Iran.



It is certainly possible, but I doubt the Iranian government could do that. It is very different from Saddam of 80s. Iraq under Saddam was a one-man show, so it was always easy for Saddam to switch sides. Iran has never been a one-man show even during Khomeini. This is a revolutionary government formed heavily on the basis of opposition to Imperialism, chants of death to America and annhilation of Israel, and keeps repeating such rhetoric to its mass everyday. Changing this foundation may bring down their whole system.

[ 24 August 2006: Message edited by: ghlobe ]


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
blake 3:17
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posted 25 August 2006 03:28 PM      Profile for blake 3:17     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chávez says China deal 'great wall' against US

· Venezuela to supply a million barrels of oil a day
· Beijing scrambling to feed energy-hungry economy

Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Friday August 25, 2006
The Guardian


The Venezuelan president, Hugo Chávez, at a press conference in Beijing. Photograph: Frederic J Brown/AFP/Getty Images


China and Venezuela, two of the biggest nations on Washington's worry list, drew closer together today with the signing of trade agreements that the Venezuelan president called a "Great Wall" against American hegemonism.
A million-barrel a day oil deal and a promise by China to back Venezuela's bid to join the United Nations security council were the main fruits of a week of meetings in Beijing, ending with talks between Hugo Chávez and the Chinese prime minister, Wen Jiabao, today.

The warming of relations reflects a shift in global diplomacy as China seeks energy resources to fuel its economy and Mr Chávez attempts to build alliances with nations threatened by US power, including Iran, Syria and North Korea.
China agreed to increase its imports of Venezuelan oil, refined fuels and a hydrocarbon called Orimulsion from the current 160,000 barrels a day to 500,000 by 2009 and a million by 2016.

This is crucial for China, which is the world's second largest oil user after the US. From being a net exporter of oil little more than a decade ago, the world's most populous and fastest growing economy is increasingly dependent on overseas supplies. It uses about 7.4m barrels a day, up half a million from last year.

Full story.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 25 August 2006 03:37 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is funny now but it is foolish to predict China will be any more benevolent an imperial power than the USA.
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged

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