quote:

---

Israel's deputy defence minister has said it will be left with "no choice" but to invade Gaza, if Palestinian militants step up rocket attacks.

Matan Vilnai said the Palestinians risked a big disaster - using the Hebrew word for the Holocaust.

Mr Vilnai said Israel would use all its might to defend itself, after rockets hit the city of Ashkelon, 10km (six miles) from Gaza.

Hamas leader Ismail Haniya said it was ready for a large-scale Israeli attack.

Israeli air strikes have killed about 30 Palestinians in the past three days.

Four Palestinian boys were killed in an Israeli raid as they played in a field in northern Gaza on Thursday. Several militants, including a Hamas commander, were also killed.

The string of attacks came a day after a rocket fired by Hamas killed an Israeli student on the outskirts of Sderot, about a mile from Gaza, the first such death in nine months.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
Shoah? What an imbecile. A stupid remark from a stupid man

---

quote:

---

Shoah? What an imbecile. A stupid remark from a stupid man -ohara

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
Shoah? What an imbecile. A stupid remark from a stupid man

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by aka Mycroft:

who happens to be Israel's deputy defence minister.

---

The defense minister threatens to unleash a "Holocaust" on the Palestinians, and all Barak does is "rebuke" him?

And you seem to be saying that this is an appropriate response, to leave this guy who threatens a "Holocaust" on Palestinians in his position as defense minister because of rocket attacks?

What Israel does to the Palestinians every single day is terrorism, ohara. Terrorism and hate. And now its defence minister threatens a "Holocaust", Barak does a bit of damage control with the international community by issuing a light rebuke (with a wink and a nudge for domestic consumption) and the PR machine does damage control by shifting the discussion to rocket attacks. Justifying such a threat and lack of action against the person making the threat by using rocket attacks as an excuse.

quote:

---

That's awesome

---

quote:

---

I heard this on the news this morning! As soon as I heard it I thought, oh, the fur is gonna fly on babble about this one!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
Not the first stupid person to be in politics. Not the first stupid person to be a Minister. Had Ehud barak said it that would be different. Barak rebuked his deputy. All this not to say that unless an answer is found, and yes it may very well mean talking to Hamas, more death and injuries are likely.

I wonder what would happen if Hamas stopped sending hundreds of rockets into Sderoth and Ashkelon. Renounced terrorism and said publicly it wanted to seek a peace agreement with Iarel? What a way of putting Israel into a corner. But renoncing terror? Hamas? Doubt it.

---

I ask, why are these settlements simply not moved?

I just don't get it. Israel spends billions annually settling people all over the occupied territories, and building fences and security systems all over Israel and the occupied territories, and engages in expensive military operations using the most sophisticated military technology in the world armed with hugely expensive ordinance to "retaliate" against these attacks, yet for some reason they show no interest in moving their civilian population out of the line of fire.

Such irresponsibility by a government, in regards to the lives of their civilian population is truly astounding in the light of how much money Israel spends yearly supposedly safeguarding the lives of same.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michelle:
Are you saying that rocket attacks are the equivalent of the Holocaust?

The defense minister threatens to unleash a "Holocaust" on the Palestinians, and all Barak does is "rebuke" him?

And you seem to be saying that this is an appropriate response, to leave this guy who threatens a "Holocaust" on Palestinians in his position as defense minister because of rocket attacks?

What Israel does to the Palestinians every single day is terrorism, ohara. Terrorism and hate. And now its defence minister threatens a "Holocaust", Barak does a bit of damage control with the international community by issuing a light rebuke (with a wink and a nudge for domestic consumption) and the PR machine does damage control by shifting the discussion to rocket attacks. Justifying such a threat and lack of action against the person making the threat by using rocket attacks as an excuse.

That's awesome.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:

I ask, why are these settlements simply not moved?

.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
London wasn't occiped territory either during the Blitz and this did not prevent Churchill from removing non-essential people from the area of attack.

Either this is no Blitz, the Israeli government is irresponsible, or the people there are being used as political capital.

---

One guy killed in 10 months doesn't justify relocation.

I understand Cueball's point - and ohara of course is right about Sderot and Ashkelon - and whoever is pointing rockets at those towns, deliberately targetting civilians, is a war criminal.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
So Cueball, say you and your family lived in Sderoth, what would you have the authorities do?

---

Ohara, if invading Gaza failed to stop the missile attacks then how is Israel's current offensive going to stop them? It looks like Israel is unleashing a disproportionate collective punishment response in order to be seen to be doing something (no matter how high the casualties) rather than to actually end the attacks.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
So Cueball, say you and your family lived in Sderoth, what would you have the authorities do?

---

Go in front of the international news media and demand that Israel cease its reign of terror and siege against Gaze, dismantle all settlements elsewhere, stop treating Arabs like second-class citizens, stop committing agression and assassination, and sit down and discuss peace without preconditions.

Then, either tough it out or move it out.

Dozens die in Israel-Gaza clashes

quote:

---

At least 46 Palestinians and two Israeli soldiers have been killed in one of the deadliest days of fighting in Gaza since troops withdrew in 2005.

Medical staff said at least eight were children and up to 16 were militants. Israel said most were militants. Seven Israeli troops were lightly injured.

Israel says it wants to stop rocket attacks from Gaza, but about 50 hit Israel on Saturday, injuring five.

The Palestinian leader has demanded urgent UN Security Council talks.

Mahmoud Abbas said the Israeli raids were "more than a holocaust".

---

We know what Israel represents to the Palestinians and other Arab neighbours. But Israel also stands as the gravest danger facing Jews in the world today.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
So Cueball, say you and your family lived in Sderoth, what would you have the authorities do?

---

quote:

---

"The State of Israel must make a strategic decision to order the IDF to prepare quickly to topple the Hamas terror regime and take over all the areas from which rockets are fired on Israel," MK Tzachi Hanegbi (Kadima) told Israel Radio. He said the IDF should prepare to remain in those areas for years.

---

quote:

---

Unionist: This rogue state of murderers must be stopped.

---

quote:

---

Disvestment Campaign Successes in London Scool of Economics
Worldwide Activism, Palestinian grassroots Anti-apartheid Wall Campaign, February 19th, 2008

The London School of Economics Student Union (LSESU) voted on February 14th to call on the university as well as the National Union of Students to divest from companies that provide military and commercial support for Occupation, which is nearing it's 60th year.

The motion, which was brought forward before more than 400 university students by the LSESU Palestine Society, passed with 339 voting for and 46 against. Specifically, it called for targeted divestment from companies that provide direct support to the military or the construction of the Wall as well as those that operate on Jewish settlements and other Palestinian lands that have been illegally expropriated. Supporters of the motion called for the campaign to continue until "companies cease such practices or until Israel ends its discriminatory oppression and colonisation of the Palestinian communities."

---

[ 01 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

Abbas breaks contact with Israel

quote:

---

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has suspended contact with Israel in protest at an assault on Gaza which has killed about 100 people, an aide says.

The suspension came amid angry demonstrations in Gaza and clashes with Israeli troops in the West Bank.

Israeli PM Ehud Olmert vowed to carry on the assault, which came in response to militant rocket attacks on Israel.

The violence intensified on Saturday, when nearly 70 people were killed in one of Gaza's bloodiest days in years.

Local doctors said at least 13 of the Palestinians were civilians, including eight children.

At least another five people were killed overnight in Gaza.

---

Meantime, this new U.N. creep from South Korea (!) is playing his assigned role:

quote:

---

The fighting has drawn international calls for restraint, with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon urging both sides to halt the violence.

---

And the Israelis are telling the U.N. to fuck off - as they have for 60 years:

quote:

---

But Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said his country needed to prepare for an escalation of its air and ground operations in Gaza.

---

quote:

---

unionist: Even the U.S.'s buddies are getting worried: "Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has suspended contact with Israel...

---

[ 02 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:

I ask, why are these settlements simply not moved?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:

Move them 50 km deeper into Israel. Such could even be a temporary measure, but of course such is simply unthinkable, for political reasons.

---

quote:

---

In May 2007, a significant increase in shelling from Gaza prompted the temporary evacuation of thousands of residents.[3] By November 23, 2007, 6,311 rockets had fallen on the city.[4] Yediot Aharonot reported that during the summer of 2007, 3,000 of the city's 22,000 residents (comprised mostly of the city's key upper and middle class residents) left for other areas, out of Qassam rocket range. Arcadi Gaydamak has in recent years supported relief programs for residents who cannot leave.[5]

---

quote:

---

...the Israelis are telling the U.N. to fuck off - as they have for 60 years:

---

And tells Canada to shut the f**k up:

quote:

---

Israel rejects Canada's call for calm in the Mideast:

Canada expressed deep concern Sunday at the growing escalation of violence around the hotly contested Gaza Strip, admonishing the Israelis for its military operations and condemning Hamas and other groups for unprovoked attacks.

But a strongly worded diplomatic caution from Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier, who said Canada is concerned about the Israeli measures in retaliation - including military operations which impact civilians - immediately drew a sharp response.

Israeli ambassador Alan Baker rejected the public scolding from Canada as "irresponsible allegations and insinuations" and said the use of such force is necessary.

---

Talk about a rogue entity!!

[ 02 March 2008: Message edited by: adam stratton ]

quote:

---

Police Sunday broke up a demonstration in the Israel Arab village of Wadi Ara protesting the ongoing Israel Defense Forces offensive in Gaza. The rally was organized by Israeli Arab party Ra'am-Ta'al and was one of three such protests scheduled for Sunday.

Later Sunday, Police arrested two protesters who participated in a demonstration outside IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv.

---

quote:

---

Gaza (dpa) - Israeli airstrikes killed nine in the Gaza Strip Sunday, bringing the fatality toll among Palestinians to 113 the in five days of fierce tit-for-tat violence, as Israeli Premier Ehud Olmert vowed not to let up "even for a second" Israel's offensive against rocket-firing militants.

---

(...)Just before this latest escalation in violence, the newswire service Associated Press briefly flagged up a report on the Occupied Territories, commissioned by the UN. (Bradley S. Klapper, 'Report: Israeli occupation causes terror', Associated Press, Feb 26, 6:11 PM ET, published on Yahoo news website.
It has since been ignored by the corporate media.

The report, authored by UN Special Rapporteur John Dugard, concludes that Palestinian terrorism is the "inevitable consequence" of Israeli occupation. While Palestinian terrorist acts are deplorable, "they must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation." Dugard, a South African professor of law, accuses the Israeli state of acts and policies consistent with all three. ('Human Rights Situation in Palestine and Other Occupied Arab Territories', Report of the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, John Dugard, United Nations Human Rights Council, A/HRC/7/17.

The report notes that Israel has attempted to justify its attacks and incursions as "defensive operations" aimed at preventing the launching of rockets into Israel. Dugard states clearly that "the firing of rockets into Israel by Palestinian militants without any military target, which has resulted in the killing and injury of Israelis, cannot be condoned and constitutes a war crime."

But he also notes that "serious questions arise over the proportionality of Israel's military response and its failure to distinguish between military and civilian targets. It is highly arguable that Israel has violated the most fundamental rules of international humanitarian law, which constitute war crimes."

In particular:

"Above all, the Government of Israel has violated the prohibition on collective punishment of an occupied people contained in article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention."

In the days that followed, as killings and injuries rapidly rose under a massive Israeli assault, we could find not a single mention in any UK national newspaper of this important assessment by the UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Territories.(Report)

[ 03 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

quote:

---

Sixty years ago, prominent Jews - including Albert Einstein and Hannah Harendt - wrote this letter to the New York Times about the growing fascism in Israel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
I wonder what would happen if Hamas stopped sending hundreds of rockets into Sderoth and Ashkelon. Renounced terrorism and said publicly it wanted to seek a peace agreement with Iarel? What a way of putting Israel into a corner. But renoncing terror? Hamas? Doubt it.

---

quote:

---

Jonathan Kay: The Canadian Islamic Congress promotes Reuters' Shoah/Holocaust blood libel against Israel

The Canadian Islamic Congress today sent out a press release as follows:

"ISLAMIC CONGRESS CALLS ON CANADA TO CONDEMN
ESCALATING ISRAELI HOLOCAUST AGAINST NATIVE PALESTINIANS
-- JEWISH STATE KILLS 68 PALESTINIANS; MAJORITY OF DEATHS WERE WOMEN,
CHILDREN, AND TWO-DAY-OLD INFANT

The Canadian Islamic Congress today called on the Canadian government,
including MPs of all parties, to issue the strongest possible condemnation
of the ongoing and rapidly escalating Israeli Holocaust against native
Palestinians.

Matan Vilnai, Israel's deputy defense minister, has tried to justify the
brutal reprisals inflicted by the Jewish state by insisting that it is
solely the Palestinians who are bringing "a bigger shoah" upon themselves.
(Shoah is the Hebrew word for the Holocaust, referring to the Nazi
extermination of Jews during World War Two.)"

All of this originates with a recent Reuters news report on Vilnai's comments, which falsely reported that Vilnai was using the Hebrew term "Shoah" in the specific sense of "Holocaust." In fact, the word also is commonly used to mean "disaster." Tom Gross, one of the world's most authoratative and vigilant commentators on anti-Israel bias in the British media, has a run-down on Reuters' screw-up here.

No doubt, the folks at the Canadian Islamic Congress know by now that the Shoah story is bunk -- but they're peddling it anyway in a bid to promote the tired Nazi smear on Israel. It's another shameful day for the Canadian Islamic Congress. Not quite as shameful as the day in 2004 that its leader went on TV and told Canada that terrorism against Israeli adults was just dandy -- but close.

---

Sorry to dampen your parade but:

[ 03 March 2008: Message edited by: Peech ]

quote:

---

Reuters mistake triggers Israel “Holocaust” libel [Tom Gross]

A Reuters mistranslation of remarks by Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai this morning has triggered an international news libel against Israel.

Among the news outlets jumping on the bandwagon are those that have previously been accused of deliberately attempting to stir up anti-Semitism through false and inflammatory coverage of Israel.

They include several British-owned or British-based media. For example, at the present time the following headlines can be found on these websites:

Reuters: Israel minister warns Palestinians of “shoah”
The BBC: Israel warns of Gaza ‘holocaust’
The Guardian: Israeli minister warns of Palestinian ‘holocaust’
The Times (of London): Israel threatens to unleash ‘holocaust’ in Gaza

In fact Vilnai said this morning in off-the-cuff remarks made on Israel Radio that: “The more the Qassam rocket fire [on Israeli civilians] intensifies and increases its range, the Palestinians are bringing upon themselves a bigger disaster because we will use all our might to defend ourselves.”

Vilnai used the word “shoah” (meaning disaster), which Reuters mistranslated as “Holocaust,” which is “HaShoah” in Hebrew. It is like confusing a “white house” with “The White House.”

Given the virulently anti-Israel (and many would say anti-Semitic) track record of some of the news organizations who have jumped to prominently headline these mistranslated comments on their home pages, one wonders if they are making this mistake in innocence?

---

However, and this could simply be my oversight because I can not read everything, where is the all important retraction, and or public explanation from Mr. Vilnai?

In fact, he is playing with the issue:

quote:

---

In fact Vilnai said this morning in off-the-cuff remarks made on Israel Radio that: “The more the Qassam rocket fire [on Israeli civilians] intensifies and increases its range, the Palestinians are bringing upon themselves a bigger disaster because we will use all our might to defend ourselves.”

---

quote:

---

Israeli official says comment on "holocaust" was manipulated
The Associated Press
Published: March 2, 2008

JERUSALEM: An Israeli official who sparked an uproar by using the word for "holocaust" to describe what Israel might do to the Gaza Strip said Sunday his comment had been manipulated by the media but acknowledged he could have chosen another term.

In a radio interview Friday discussing Palestinian rocket fire at Israel and Israel's military response, Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai said, "As the rocket fire grows, and the range increases ... they are bringing upon themselves a greater 'shoah' because we will use all our strength in every way we deem appropriate."

The Hebrew word "shoah" refers to the Nazi Holocaust, but also means "disaster," and a spokesman for Vilnai immediately clarified he meant the latter.

Nonetheless, many international media outlets translated it as "holocaust" and the statement was taken by many in the Arab world to mean that Israel was threatening the Palestinians with genocide.

On Saturday, Palestinian leaders from both Hamas and Fatah called Israel's assault on the Gaza Strip, which has killed dozens of people, a "holocaust" and "genocide."

In Syria, exiled Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal described Israeli killings of civilians in Gaza as "the real Holocaust."

"It's clear to everyone that I used it to mean 'disaster' or 'catastrophe,'" Vilnai said Sunday in an interview with Army Radio, charging the media with "manipulating" his words.

"You can use other words, absolutely," Vilnai acknowledged, "but that shouldn't divert us from the main point, which is that they are bringing a disaster on their people because of their actions."

---

quote:

---

Gaza: Holocaust or The Hashoah?

03/02/2008

There is no doubt that the recent Israeli escalation in Gaza is unwise. It will not end the Qassam rocket fire on Sderot or the Grad rocket fire on Ashkelon. It will not bring peace. It will not end the rule of the Hamas in Gaza. On the contrary, it might help to legitimize and entrench the Hamas.

Israel has a right to defend itself. It is not always wise to exercise your rights. It is never wise to carry out military operations that cannot achieve any political goal or provide any military advantage. The Israel government must know by now that the rules are different for Israel. According to the BBC the Lebanese army killed about 260 people in Nahar el Bared camp. Over 40 were civilians, while the rest were terrorists militants of the Fatah al-Islam Al-Qaeda group. But nobody batted an eyelash. Nobody said there was any Holocaust. In Gaza, about 40 terrorists militants were killed by Israel, and about 10 civilians in a day. It was immediately condemned as "disproportionate use of force" and "a Holocaust." Fifty dead Palestinians make a Holocaust, but as many dead Pakistanis or Iraqis rate 2 column inches on the third page, and nobody even remembers if six times as many Lebanese are killed. That's the way the world works. (Note added in update - About 61 Palestinians were killed in Gaza on Saturday; Palestinians claim 29 were civilians, of whom 5 were children - reference)

A linguistic note is in order. Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai said the following last week:

"As the Qassam rocket fire [on Israeli civilians] intensifies and increases its range, the Palestinians will bring upon themselves a greater catastrophe because we will use all our might to defend ourselves."

. The phrase he used in Hebrew was

yamitu al atsmam shoah gdolah yoter.

. Reuters news service mistranslated "shoah" as Holocaust, and trumpeted the "news" that Vilnai was threatening a "Holocaust." They published a correct version later on, but the story of the "Holocaust" threat has spread far and wide. The original was either a deliberate error or a very gross mistranslation. Those who are spreading it now are lying deliberately. I have check three authoritative dictionaries (Alcalay, Even Shushan, Shweika). The word "Shoah" in correct Hebrew does not mean genocide, or burnt offering or the massacre of European Jews by the Nazis. That is not one of the meanings listed. "Hashoah" - with a definite article, refers to "The Holocaust" - the massacre of European Jewry. It is not the same thing. I have also searched for "Yamitu Shoah" in Google. This is a sort of cliched phrase that means "will bring on disaster." It is used for ecological disasters, environmental disasters and so on. For those who read Hebrew - here are two examples here and here. The first discusses whether or not child subsidies will cause a "shoah" and the second discussed where or not computers will cause a "shoah." Moreover, in the context in which Vilnai said it, the meaning is unmistakable. Nobody sane, and no Israeli minister, would argue that the Holocaust or a holocaust had already taken place in Gaza. So what could it mean if he "threatened" a "greater holocaust?" The Holocaust, HaShoah, is understood as an absolute term in Israel - the annihilation of European Jewry. How could anyone threaten to make someone "more annihilated?"

It is true that we are a nation of immigrants and many speak incorrect Hebrew. Many speak "English Hebrew." "My grandparents died in the Shoah, but my parents came on Aliyah and they work in Hasbara, and my brother is a Halutz in a kibbutz. My sister married a yored and went to live in America. I learned Hebrew in an ulpan" But it is not a war crime for ministers in the Israeli government to speak correct Hebrew. Until the Hamas come to power, Israelis are still allowed to speak Hebrew.

As to who is threatening a Holocaust, that is certainly an interesting question that you must judge for yourself. Following is a Hamas poster.

The caption reads 'Death is coming, O Zionists, hide yourselves', and the photo shows the "Zionists" cowering in fear of the rocket fire.

The tragedy in Gaza, must be blamed in part on Israel. It must be blamed also on the Hamas and on the Palestinians who failed to stop the rockets, as Palestinian Ray Hanania points out. Above all it must be blamed on the international community, which is alternately busy issuing worthless condemnations of the Hamas and equally ineffective condemnations of Israel, rather than finding a solution. Palestinians in Gaza cannot overthrow Hamas. Israel has to defend itself, and the Israeli government has to deal with political realities like any government. The daily horror of rocket fire in Sderot has put tremendous pressure on the government. The place has become a ghost town.

---

Live by the sword, and die by the sword, right?

[ 03 March 2008: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

quote:

---

I wonder what would happen if Hamas just stopped lobbing mortars and rockets into Israel proper. I wonder then if it renounced terrorism and made an offer to israel to negotiate a peace deal if Israel would do it? Might be at least worth a try -ohara

---

Did you ever wonder what would happen if Israel just complied with the UN's multitudes of resolutions that remainn ink on paper ?

From The Guardian

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peech:
Seth Freedman from the Guardian explains the "Holocaust" reference:

---

If Vilnai only meant that Israel should bring disaster and catastrophe on Gaza - and not necessarily a Nazi genocide - why then, that's ok, isn't it? Why is everyone getting so touchy?

Surely we are entitled to the occasional mass murder of civilians, given what Amalek did to us not that long ago.

quote:

---

I wonder what would happen if Israel dismantled [u]every[/u] settlement on Palestinian land and honoured the right to return?

---

quote:

---

Within hours the Israeli Foreign Ministry was launching a large “hasbara” (propaganda) campaign through its diplomats, as the Jerusalem Post reported. In a related move, a spokesman for Vilnai explained that the word “shoah” also meant “disaster”; this, rather than a holocaust, was what the minister had been referring to. Clarifications were issued by many media outlets.

However, no one in Israel was fooled. “Shoah” -- which literally means “burnt offering” -- was long ago reserved for the Holocaust, much as the Arabic word “nakba” (or “catastrophe”) is nowadays used only to refer to the Palestinians’ dispossession by Israel in 1948. Certainly, the Israeli media in English translated Vilnai’s use of “shoah” as “holocaust”.

---

quote:

---

I wonder what would happen if Hamas renounced all violence and terrorism and announced a willingness to negotiate a two-state settlement with Israel - and actually honoured the terms of the agreement. -Stockholm

---

Same was aid about the P.L.O./Yasser Arafat.

quote:

---

On 15 Nov. 1988, [the P.L.O.] declared Palestinian independence at the 19th PNC in Algiers, and in Dec. 1988, it announced the recognition of Israel’s right to exist and renounced terrorism. http://tinyurl.com/yp9te9

---

I am sure you got my point, Stockholm.
What is your next piece of apologism for war-monger Israel?

[ 08 March 2008: Message edited by: adam stratton ]

quote:

---

Hmmm seems that when Jordan and Egypty did this there has been a longstanding peace..MMMM right Im sorry of course its all Israel"s fault... -ohara

---

The P.L.O. recognized Israel's right to exist and renounced what Israel calls terrorism and thus fully met Israeli demands. Israel's bluff was called.

Now Isael is singing the same song. It is not interested in peace and has never been.

[ 08 March 2008: Message edited by: adam stratton ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Redburn:
I think the state of Israel has gone totally crazy. Is there any political action being organized about the very real holocaust going on in the Gaza right now? Anyone considered a national day of protest over this yet? It might be a good time for it.

---

I thought this what part of the whole policy of disengagment tied in with allowing "guest labrouers"?

quote:

---

Israeli policy to feret out terrorists is not immoral.

---

The devil is in the details, I guess. Poor Israel, having to do such awful, sad, cruel work on behalf of Civilisation.

[ 09 March 2008: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

quote:

---

Jonathan Cook: Last summer he began quietly preparing a plan on behalf of his boss, the Defense Minister Ehud Barak, to declare Gaza a "hostile entity" and dramatically reduce the essential services supplied by Israel -- as long-time occupier -- to its inhabitants, including electricity and fuel. The cuts were finally implemented late last year after the Israeli courts gave their blessing.

---

quote:

---

Safa Abu Seif, 12, was fatally wounded as she stood in an upstairs room of her home in the Gaza City district of Jabaliya 10 days ago….

… [T]he family of the Palestinian television journalist Mahmoud Al Adjrami said that when Safa was struck Israeli troops were occupying their house, 90 metres across a stretch of open space from the window she was struck through.

They say the invading soldiers smashed up their tile floor to get sand to fill sand-bags for firing positions in first-floor windows facing the Abu Seif house. The discarded sand, together with the smashed door and tiles, spent bullet cases and heaps of Israeli ration boxes and discarded snack wrappers, were still in the house a day after the troops withdrew.

It is standard Israeli military procedure during tank raids to take over civilian homes as snipers' nests and hideouts, holding the occupants at gunpoint. According to the testimonies of victims and from Israeli soldiers themselves, this process can frequently involve theft, vandalism and violence against unarmed civilians.

The 15 women and children of the extended al Adjrami family were herded together into a single room for 19 hours, while the two adult men had their wrists tightly bound with plastic cable ties. Mahmoud's sister Naima, 33, said the soldiers gave them water but no food.

According to Mahmoud's brother, Mamdoeh, the soldiers ransacked the wardrobes and cupboards, stealing two gold bracelets, four mobile phones and the equivalent of $8600.

Next door Jabr Zidane, 52, a taxi driver, said troops had taken over his house for 24 hours, looting jewellery and four mobile phones. He shows visitors the remains of a smashed television and stereo, a broken floor, discarded sand and Hebrew-labelled army rations.

In another home soldiers allegedly stole two large gold bracelets and $500 from Jumaa Abed Rabbo, 40, and his wife and eight children.

"I was sitting with my hands tied with plastic ties for 24 hours. I asked if my family could use the kitchen to get water and food. They refused and so we didn't eat for 24 hours," Abed Rabbo said.

The professed purpose of last weekend's raid into Gaza was to kill or capture Palestinian terrorists involved in firing rockets into Israel, to capture or destroy equipment and to gather intelligence.

Yet all four of the families mentioned in this article are linked to Fatah, the Palestinian faction favoured by Israel and the United States over Hamas.

---

quote:

---

Yet all four of the families mentioned in this article are linked to Fatah, the Palestinian faction favoured by Israel and the United States over Hamas.

---

quote:

---

MEDIA LENS: Correcting for the distorted vision of the corporate media

March 11, 2008

MEDIA ALERT: ISRAELI DEATHS MATTER MORE

The horrific shooting of eight young people at a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem last Thursday was followed by saturation media coverage. International statesmen lined up with condemnations of the attack and condolences for the victims and their families.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced: "This is clearly an attempt to strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process." (Jon Smith, Press Association, 'Brown: massacre "strikes at heart of peace"', March 7, 2008)

Foreign Secretary David Milliband described the slaughter as "an arrow aimed at the heart of the peace process so recently revived." (Donald Macintyre and Eric Silver, 'Massacre in the heart of Jerusalem', The Independent, March 7, 2008)

The Guardian's front page declared: "the descent into violence in the Middle East accelerated last night" in a "dramatic escalation". (Rory McCarthy, 'Eight dead as gunman hits Jerusalem religious school', The Guardian, March 7, 2008). A Daily Mirror headline read: 'Kids Murdered In The Library' (Allison Martin, March 7, 2008). The Telegraph asserted that the attack "is likely to be remembered as the moment the Middle East peace process died." (Tim Butcher, 'Hopes of peace in the Middle East are blown away in a hail of bullets', Daily Telegraph, March 7, 2008)

The contrast to reactions to the killing of over 120 Palestinians, including many women and children, in occupied Gaza the previous week could hardly be more striking. On one day alone, 60 people died in a hail of Israeli firepower using F-16 planes, Apache helicopter gunships, tanks, armoured bulldozers and ground troops.

No Western leader was heard condemning the Israeli assault on Gaza as "an attempt to strike a blow at the very heart of the peace process." To our knowledge, no reporter suggested that "the peace process" had now "died". No headlines screamed of Palestinian babies "murdered" in their beds. In short, news reports from the Gazan bloodbath typically lacked the anguished details and tone that suffused the reporting from Jerusalem less than a week later.(...)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
The answer is that suggesting there is a genocide is out of line. There is a terrible tragedy that must be dealt with but comparing it to genocide suggesting Israelis are perpetrating a genocide when they are not is vile.

---

But this one I really should back away from from. No 'vile'ness intended but using the word 'holocaust' was wrong, particularly for those who were there. I broke one of my own rules and won't happen again.

[ 20 March 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
There is a terrible tragedy that must be dealt with but

---

Excellent; what do you suggest Olmert start with? Legal rights for Palestinian victims? Housing and aid for refugees? Forking over of settler property to its original owners?

[ 20 March 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]