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Topic: Is subprime fiasco race based
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Pride for Red Dolores
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12072
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posted 14 December 2007 01:16 PM
quote: Ironically, cheap money policies that have trapped some many minority people in houses they can’t pay for were enacted as a response to complaints that to great a percentage of minorites were unable to qualify for traditional loans. Here in El Paso, Texas, which is 80 percent Hispanic, a survey revealed that, while more Hispanics than Anglos received mortgage loans, a larger percentage of Hispanics than Anglos failed to qualify for loans. Although the lenders were able to demonstrate the lending process was not racially biased (the loans applications were processed and approved by computers that had no way of identifying the race of applicants, civic leaders coerced the banking community into “leveling the playing field” by granting loans to a set percentage of Hispanics who otherwise would not have qualified.The executives of mortgage companies that sprang up overnight to take advantage of the easy money policies could care less about race; they were motivated by generating short-term revenue growth and big bonuses. At the low end of the non-traditional mortgage pyramid, minorities represent an outside percentage of the loosers, at the high end or overly optimist buyers who bought mansions assuming they would raidly increase in value. In the middile are people of all races who are going to spend the rest of their lives paying high monthly payments on homes that are decreasing in value and
This is all an effect of racism that has created poverty- these minorities were the victims of racism and slavery, so they have not "caught up" with white people economically due to lack of acess top resources- educational, cash,employ etc.This is why the minorities are the majority of subprime borrowers. It's like Katrina- the majority of the victims were black because of slavery in the past and its lingering effects.
From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2006
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Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214
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posted 14 December 2007 02:30 PM
I think it's racist.There was a similar report on CNN some time ago, and while it didn't point to racism directly, it did point out that many people who were hooked into this were taken advantage of because they didn't have a good understanding of english, let alone english legal jargon. Which explains why Hispanics might have been targeted by these flim flam artists. Similarly, when the state ensures ignorance by underfunding education, and does so more often than not along racial lines, and then sends these lambs out into the deregulated market place for slaughter, it's indeed systemic racism. But there is a classist element to this also. I don't think the two can necessarily be always separated.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001
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Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312
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posted 14 December 2007 03:52 PM
quote: On what basis do you conclude that sub-prime mortgages were targeted at POC and not at poor people generally
Did you read the opening quote, Sven? Here it is again: quote: Home Mortgage Disclosure Act data from 2005 reveal that more than 50 percent of black and 46 percent of Latino home buyers received subprime loans, compared to 17 percent of white borrowers. Many of the minority borrowers could have qualified for more favorable terms.
And from Obama: quote: According to recent studies, and an editorial in the New York Times, there is increasing evidence that black and Hispanic borrowers were more likely to be steered to high-cost subprime loans than other borrowers.
It is classist only in the sense that in the US blacks and hispanics form a sub-class. But the fact there is a black and hispanic sub-class points to a systemic and inherent racism. Much of the dialog about the subprime crisis argues that it represents a massive transfer of wealth from poor Americans to wealthy Americans. Seldom does that dialog point out that it represents a massive transfer of wealth from black and hispanic Americans to white Americans. Stockholm, one day you will make sense. Until then, we wait with
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 14 December 2007 06:23 PM
Hmmm. An interesting statistic about ARMs (adjstable rate mortgages) both prime and sub-prime, is that over 50% of these mortgages are tied to the LIBOR (London inter-bank rate).The spread between the LIBOR and the US Fed rate is 60 basis points, meaning that no matter what sort of finagling the fed does,anyone with an ARM mortgage is hooped. One of the problems with sub-prime mortgages is that credit was extended to anyone with two feet and a heartbeat regardless of ability to pay. Since Afro-Americans and Hispanic-Americans are more likely to be financially disadvantaged, they are most likely over represented in statistics. The sub-prime fiasco is not race based,but opportunity based. Anyone,regardless of race,is equally represented as a opportunity to be screwed over by the sub-prime predators.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 14 December 2007 06:51 PM
quote: Much of the dialog about the subprime crisis argues that it represents a massive transfer of wealth from poor Americans to wealthy Americans. Seldom does that dialog point out that it represents a massive transfer of wealth from black and hispanic Americans to white Americans.
FM, you don't know your ass from your elbow on this subject. While there will be a massive transfer of wealth,most of the individuals who qualified for sub-prime ARMs had no equity investment and it will be the pension plans and fund investors who will pay the price for investing in the bundled collateralised debt obligations that were spun off as derivatives. A more accurate analogy would be a massive transfer of unrealised capital gains from the victims of predatory financing to a never-never land of collateralised debt obligations. As evidenced by the decision of an Ohio court,the foreclosers cannot establish clear title to the houses foreclosed upon and the legal wrangling will take many years. Regardless of race, it will be the individual pension plan contributor or investor who will see his return erode. The plans and funds will,of course,sue but only the lawyers will see any return on investment. It will be the individual recipient of Social Security or Medicare who will see his SS and/or medicare benefits disappear by 2020. It will be the individual American who will see their standard of living erode. Source food costs have risen 26% in the US this year as a result of higher oil costs and the effect of government subsidy of ethanol-based fuels among many variables. An analysis of the US inflation rate and the Consumer spending index provides a very interesting observation. The Inflation rate is advertised as the "core" rate which basically means that if you don't need food or energy,(heat or transportation), inflation is very managable. . The Consumer price index,that measures consumer confidence, on the other hand , includes food and energy so that when the talking heads spin about how the US consumer is still confident in the economy as evidenced by their increased spending, they neglect to mention that the consumer is spending more on food and energy,not discretionary spending. Another spin is housing sales. The talking heads are crowing over increased sales of existing housing but what they fail to mention is that when a house goes into foreclosure or when a builder surrenders an unsold house to their creditor,the statistics consider that surrender a "sale". So, the spinners attempt to spin increased surrenders to foreclosure as a positive sales statistic. We can next analyse the employment numbers but, you get the picture. Finance has no conscience and doesn't care what race the victim is. The good reverend is busily spinning his own version as usual.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312
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posted 17 December 2007 11:59 AM
quote:
FM, you don't know your ass from your elbow on this subject.
And apparently, jester, you don't know your ass from the hole in your mouth. quote:
While there will be a massive transfer of wealth ...
So there will be a massive transfer in wealth. Excellent. quote:
most of the individuals who qualified for sub-prime ARMs had no equity investment
Yes, because they have been paying interest for nothing. That may not be equity, but it represents value and the loss of the roof over their heads. quote:
... it will be the pension plans and fund investors who will pay the price for investing in the bundled collateralised debt obligations that were spun off as derivatives.
And who are those people?As for the rest, blah, blah, blah ...
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 17 December 2007 04:47 PM
quote: And apparently, jester, you don't know your ass from the hole in your mouth.
As usual FM you're busy talking when you should be listening. Try taking your time to craft an insult so it doesn't sound so dorky. quote: And who are those people? As for the rest, blah, blah, blah ...
Those people are the individuals who invest in pensions either through their company or personal plans-401Ks in the US,I assume. Yes,yes. blah,blah,blah. That is what all the lemmings chant as they head on over the cliff.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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AfroHealer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11362
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posted 19 December 2007 06:19 AM
quote: Originally posted by Sven:
I'd like to see the author's source for that claim. It may be completely accurate but I'd like to see her source data.
There is so much data to prove the systemic racism in the financial industry its overwhelming. If you want to find out more, go talk to or go read some data prepared by and for Hisponaic and African communities. This is more or less common knowledge amongst the middle to upper middle class Hispanic and African communities. What next, you will be asking for proof that the criminal injustice system is racist? I;m assuming that you mean well, so i will suggest you go do your homework. And you will be unpleasantly surprised to find these things to be true.
From: Atlantic Canada | Registered: Dec 2005
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Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312
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posted 19 December 2007 07:55 AM
How about CNN? From 2002: quote: The study, entitled "Risk or Race?," revealed that lower-income African-Americans receive 2.4 times as many subprime loans as lower-income whites, while upper-income African-Americans receive 3 times as many subprime loans as do whites with comparable incomes.At the same time, lower-income Hispanics receive 1.4 times as many subprime loans as do lower-income whites, while upper-income Hispanics receive 2.2 times as many.
Subprime lenders target minoritiesNote that is the CNN headline, not mine. And there is this: quote: Targeted groups are Seniors, Disabled, and Minorities A. In Los Angeles, 253 of the 1,641 census tracts had high levels of subprime lending activity. Of the 253 tracts, 241 had a high concentration of African Americans or Hispanics. (Curbing Predatory Home Mortgage Lending, p.48.) B. Among borrowers living in upper-income white neighborhoods, only 6% turned to subprime lenders for refinancing in 1998. In contrast, 39% of borrowers living in upperincome black neighborhoods refinanced in the subprime market. The growth of mortgage foreclosures paralleled the growth in subprime lending. (Curbing Predatory Home Mortgage Lending, p. 48 and p.49.) C. Subprime lending in Los Angeles is more likely in low-income minority neighborhoods with a high proportion of elderly residents. (Subprime Lending and Neighborhood Conditions in the City of Los Angeles, p.10.) D. The rise of subprime lending is not a response from low-income homeowners; the percentage of minority and elderly populations are more significant factors. (Subprime Lending and Neighborhood Conditions in the City of Los Angeles, p. 13.) E. A growing body of research shows that elderly, minority residents of low income neighborhoods are most at-risk of predatory lending practices. (Subprime Lending and Neighborhood Conditions in the City of Los Angeles p. 22.) F. Subprime mortgage lenders target the poor, the elderly and people of color for higher loan costs. (CRC Letter, 2/20/02 p. 2.) G. The growth in subprime refinance loans from 1993-2000 was greater among African American and Latino homeowners than it was among whites. (Separate and Unequal: Predatory Lending in America.) H. Predatory lenders have been able to get away with abusive practices, in part, because they exploit the history of racial discrimination and redlining by traditional financial institutions. (Separate and Unequal: Predatory Lending in America, p. 30.)
It goes on ... quote: Across the nation, black and Hispanic borrowers helped fuel a multiyear housing boom, accounting for 49% of the increase in homeowners from 1995 to 2005, says Harvard's Joint Center for Housing Studies. But Hispanics and African-Americans were far more likely to leverage the American dream with subprime loans — higher-cost products for buyers with impaired credit — that are now going bad at an alarming rate.About 46% of Hispanics and 55% of blacks who took out purchase mortgages in 2005 got higher-cost loans, compared with about 17% of whites and Asians, according to Federal Reserve data. The South Side of Chicago, with a large concentration of minority borrowers, has a high concentration of subprime loans and the state's highest foreclosure rate. In Boston, where defaults are rising — especially in minority areas — 73% of high-income black buyers (those making $92,000 to $152,000) and 70% of high-income Hispanics had subprime loans in 2005, compared with 17% of whites. Concentrated foreclosures in minority neighborhoods could reduce property values. The NAACP, National Council of La Raza and other civil rights groups recently called for a six-month moratorium on subprime home foreclosures. Problems are centered on subprime borrowers who took out adjustable-rate mortgages, which are now resetting at higher rates, increasing the monthly payments. One of those swept up in the subprime frenzy was Paris Alston, 35, of Boston, who moved from a homeless shelter to a steady job and hard-to-get federally subsidized housing. Last year, after seeing an ad targeted at first-time buyers, she jumped into a subprime adjustable-rate loan that started with a 9.95% interest rate that could jump to as much as 15.25%.
Minorities hit hard by rising costs of subprime loansApparently also targeted were women and the elderly. The usual target of fraud artists. And when all is said and done, the subprime fiasco is a massive fraud perpetuated on primarily African Americans and Latinos with the complicit support of the entire US financial and political elite.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005
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Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312
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posted 09 January 2008 06:44 AM
quote: Baltimore’s mayor and City Council are suing Wells Fargo Bank, contending that its lending practices discriminated against black borrowers and led to a wave of foreclosures that has reduced city tax revenues and increased its costs ...... In the suit, Mayor Sheila Dixon joined with the City Council to ask that the court bar Wells Fargo from charging higher fees to black borrowers. Many of these borrowers paid more under the bank’s subprime lending program, designed for less creditworthy consumers, and are more likely to default on their loans. In 2006, Wells Fargo made high-cost loans, with an interest rate at least three percentage points above a federal benchmark, to 65 percent of its black customers in Baltimore and to only 15 percent of its white customers in the area, according to the lawsuit. Similarly, refinancings to black borrowers were more likely to be higher cost than to white ones and to carry prepayment penalties.
New York Times
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005
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brookmere
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9693
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posted 09 January 2008 09:57 AM
quote: Originally posted by Stockholm: Why not change the title of the thread to "Is sub-prime fiasco class based". I'll bet that people with sub-prime mortgages tend to have much lower incomes than people with non-subprime mortgages.
People with sub-prime mortgages are supposed to have lower incomes, or more precisely lower credit ratings, than other borrowers. That's what makes the loans riskier and the rates higher.The problem, as other posters have pointed out, is that it appears that borrowers were given sub-prime loans not by reason of economic qualifications, but race. That's racial discrimination. There is nothing wrong with any lender matching loan terms to the ability to repay of the borrower, no matter what their race or social class. Jester is correct. Many subprime borrowers put not even a dollar of their own money down before moving in - not even what would be required of a renter. Of course they were making mortgage payments for some time at least, but they did have a place to live for that time. Really they were just renting the houses from the lenders. And I'll also point out that the reason all those foreclosures are taking place is that the house prices were inflated by easy lending, that is they were far higher than justified by what the property could be rented for, and those prices are now collapsing back to economically justified values. That's what economists call a bubble, and that's the real problem clear across the US, from the inner city to the upscale suburbs. It's not a "subprime" crisis, it's a national housing bubble. Housing Bubble Blog (US) [ 09 January 2008: Message edited by: brookmere ]
From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 10 January 2008 10:27 PM
I think this is bigger than discrimination, which no doubt is still a problem. I think it's an issue with the world money system that's been developing for a long time. quote: In year-end interviews for example, Prime Minister Stephen Harper warns of a "challenging year" ahead, partly on the basis of the compliance cost to industry of federal climate-change regulations, but especially his low expectations of the U.S. economy. The latter are shared by former U.S. Federal Reserve boss Alan Greenspan who predicted last week "that something will happen which is unexpected, which will knock us down." He went on to say the world's central banks have lost control of upward-trending interest rates -- hardly good news for the U.S. economy, as America waits for the second act in its sub-prime crisis to open.
They are at the point where people aren't buying, and sellers still refuse to realize that they have to drop prices in order to sell. Shares of the largest strip mall company in the U.S. have plummeted something like 90%. Bernanke recently mentioned lowering interest rates in order to encourage borrowing and stimulate the US economy. Subprime Debacle Traps Even Very Credit-Worthy December quote: Many borrowers whose credit scores might have qualified them for conventional loans say they were pushed into risky subprime loans. They say lenders or brokers aggressively marketed the loans, offering easier and faster approvals — and downplaying or hiding the onerous price paid over the long haul in higher interest rates or stricter repayment terms
[ 11 January 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44
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posted 19 January 2008 11:43 PM
What's happening in Cleveland is just crazy. Not only are foreclosed homes being abandoned, but they're being stripped of anything the least bit valuable like doors, windows, wiring and metal pipe.There was also a lot of just plain fraud involved in getting people to sign up for those loans. quote: Mortgage brokers and lenders became aggressive salesmen, even going door to door in some neighbourhoods. In Cleveland, brokers would show up at houses with lists of purported building-code violations and coax the owners into taking out loans to fix the problems. One woman in a poor Cleveland neighbourhood ended up with a $70,000 loan after being convinced that her garage needed repair. Some brokers worked with corrupt building inspectors . . . when the inspector told a homeowner to fix a structural problem, the broker would follow, offering a loan. Later, the two would split the fee.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080118.wcover19/BNStory/Front/?pageRequested=all
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001
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brookmere
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9693
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posted 20 January 2008 03:15 AM
Which illustrates the sheer idiocy of it all. The very reason lenders foreclose houses is that they can sell the house and try to recover the money owing on the mortgage. The lenders would be better off if they just let the former owners stay in these houses free and take care of them while they were for sale.What is the reason for this crazy state of affairs? As Jester pointed out, the loans have been securitized and parceled out to investors all over the world. There's nobody with feet on the ground to monitor the situation as it would be if a local bank held the mortgage. The job of handling payment collection and foreclosing lies with someone called a "mortgage servicer", and these are currently overwhelmed with problems and unable to cope with the situation. And obviously, the lenders are taking a big bath. The problem is that the lenders include you and me, from the Government of the Yukon to UBC to ICBC. This garbage has been sold all over the place. It's the financial equivalent of mad cow disease. [ 20 January 2008: Message edited by: brookmere ]
From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005
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abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245
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posted 20 January 2008 02:42 PM
There seems to be a common misconception that there is a product called a "sub-prime mortgage" that banks decided to sell to people.Fact is a mortgage is sub-prime because it was sold to someone that didn't qualify for it under normal circumstances, not because it was a special product. That generally meant they were poor or they were trying to buy too much house or they had no down payment or some such. Of course the justification always went along the same lines. Interest rates will go down so payments will drop in the future. The consumer will get raises so they'll be able to afford the mortgage down the road. Housing prices will go up so the consumer will be able to flip the house when it comes time to refinance. And so forth. The question of what sort of mortgages the lenders were offering is another question. When mortgage brokers were being told they'd get a larger fee if they could convince someone to take out a mortgage at an unreasonably high interest rate it was a given that they'd push high interest rate mortgages. And if they've got access to a group of consumers that are both unsophisticated and poor the results are predictable. The fact that the defaults are heavily skewed along racial lines is more likely to do with income distributions than race per se. If you've got a group of people that thought it was impossible to ever own a home who are suddenly being told that (i) they can have a 100% mortgage and (ii) a few years down the road they can sell the house in question at a very significant profit, there's no doubt that people will be lining up to sign on the dotted line. [Remember it's not that long ago that banks were being dumped on because they weren't advancing enough mortgages to blacks.] As an aside, ARM's are a different question entirely. While the concept sounds simple they are very sophisticated financial instruments that should not be sold to the general public.
From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 20 January 2008 03:21 PM
Individuals of poverty stricken or African American backgrounds may be more succeptible to the spiels of the lenders because they do not have the financial negotiating sophistication to drive the best deal.Predatory lenders will certainly not discriminate against anyone because of race. They will con anyone regardless of economic circumstance or racial background. It appears to me that the disproportionate number of African Americans ARMs is due not to racial targeting but due to dishonest lending practices that gave false hope to disadvantaged individuals. There were no consequences for the brokers,lenders,collateralisers and investment banks who were basically offering free money. A house should not cost more than 3X an individual's gross yearly income. The payments (PIT) should not be more than 32% of gross income and the gross debt servicing of the individual,including the mortgage should not be more than 40% of yearly income. When a broker works really hard to qualify a purchaser's mortgage to their housing dream rather than qualifying the housing dream to the mortgage, they do the purchaser no favours.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 20 January 2008 03:28 PM
quote: Originally posted by martin dufresne: Uhhh? Are you telling us you're (gasp!) color-blind, Fidel? Say it isn't so, please! Better yet, catch a refresher course from The Angry Black Woman...
That's not what I said. If you're trying to tell us that you've discovered racism in the U.S., then I think you're about a couple of centuries late. Racism was there. Racism is everywhere in America still, we don't have to single out the financial and banking system and suggest that racism is prevalent there only. What drives racism? What drove slavery, a scientific belief that blacks were inferior to whites? No, it was appalling greed and stupidity and ignorance. [ 20 January 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245
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posted 20 January 2008 03:33 PM
quote: There were no consequences for the brokers,lenders,collateralisers and investment banks who were basically offering free money.
Only partly true. There were definitely no consequences for the brokers and, to the extent that the mortgages could be securitized and sold on there were no consequences to the original lenders. The I Banks are a different story. It depends if they ended up holding the mortgage backed paper or not. Of course this completely ignores the question of the lawsuits that are in the making against virtually every link of the chain. How successful they'll be is anyone's guess at this stage. quote: A house should not cost more than 3X an individual's gross yearly income. The payments (PIT) should not be more than 32% of gross income and the gross debt servicing of the individual,including the mortgage should not be more than 40% of yearly income.
And people were getting qualified under that formula [which is quite aggressive to say the least] without considering their other debts. The results were absolutely predictable. quote: Predatory lenders will certainly not discriminate against anyone because of race. They will con anyone regardless of economic circumstance or racial background.
Absolutely true - the only colour that matters here is green. quote: It appears to me that the disproportionate number of African Americans ARMs is due not to racial targeting but due to dishonest lending practices that gave false hope to disadvantaged individuals.
Fact is that a few years ago these same individuals couldn't get any loans. Is it any wonder that they jumped at the first offer they got and didn't shop around or try to negotiate better terms.
From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001
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brookmere
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9693
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posted 20 January 2008 08:13 PM
quote: Originally posted by Fidel:
Apparently some lenders weren't checking to verify whether borrowers were even employed or if their incomes would cover mortgage payments once higher rates kicked in.
Correct, and the official name for such a loan was "stated income loan".The unofficial name was "liar loan". Let's get one thing straight. Many buyers knew perfectly well they could not afford the house payments. They thought that houses would keep going up 10% a year and they could sell for a big profit before the payments jumped. Every scam requires a mark who thinks they can get something for nothing. quote: you are saying - under the guise of blaming irresponsible lenders - that the borrowers' financial situation was the real problem
The real problem was that the borrowers were buying houses at prices they could not afford. Period. This was true for all racial groups and all incomes. The lenders were facilitating this. But nobody was forcing these people to buy the houses.[ 20 January 2008: Message edited by: brookmere ]
From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005
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brookmere
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9693
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posted 21 January 2008 05:53 AM
The latter is a direct result of the former, so it makes no sense to identify one or the other as the real problem.Actually the housing bubble will, oddly enough, help a lot of people get affordable housing. So much excess housing in the US has been built in the last 5 years that not only prices but rents are going to drop almost everywhere. The beneficiaries, of course, will be limited to those who had the wisdom not to buy during this debacle. This is the Sound of a Bubble Bursting
From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 21 January 2008 06:06 AM
quote: Originally posted by abnormal:
Fact is that a few years ago these same individuals couldn't get any loans. Is it any wonder that they jumped at the first offer they got and didn't shop around or try to negotiate better terms.
quote: Only partly true. There were definitely no consequences for the brokers and, to the extent that the mortgages could be securitized and sold on there were no consequences to the original lenders. The I Banks are a different story. It depends if they ended up holding the mortgage backed paper or not.
Agreed. I did not open up the consequences can of worms because it is not germaine to the topic but the fact is that foreign governments and security holders who have the clout are forcing US banks to buy back their derivatives if such a buyback clause was inserted in the original agreement. The lawsuits are also flying. The end effect of all this is an evaporation of wealth on an unprecidented scale. it is the natural consequence of Greenspan's and now Bernanke's monetary policy that flooded the markets with liquidity rather than biting the bullet- short term pain for long term gain. Instead,we now will have long-term pain for all to provide short-term gain for the financial elite. Everyone who has a reirement fund, pension,savings or the hope for a better standard of living will pay their share while the instigators of this fiasco and their government enablers walk.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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