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Author Topic: Polls highlight Taiwan's identity crisis
NDP Newbie
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posted 06 December 2004 10:48 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FL07Ad01.html

A lot better than the tripe we get from dumbasses in our right-wing media who think that the Pan-Blue parties are communist because they support unification.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Panama Jack
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posted 07 December 2004 06:05 PM      Profile for Panama Jack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by NDP Newbie:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/FL07Ad01.html

A lot better than the tripe we get from dumbasses in our right-wing media who think that the Pan-Blue parties are communist because they support unification.



REALLY? That's bizarre... you have any actual examples of this?

I've read some republican anti-China congressman support Chen and the DPP's move towards independance (more as a slight to the CCP than anything else IMO), but as of late it seems that Bush's rhetoric has been more slanted towards appeasing the mainland and thereby supporting the pan-Blue folks and the old cross-strait CCP/KMT dichotomy (which leans towards unification).


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 07 December 2004 11:53 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CNN's coverage of the Presidential election earlier this year.

Republicans who support Chen are acting under outdated assumption that China and her allies are communist-minded, which has not been true since before the Deng Xiaoping era.

Many calling for democracy, civil liberties, and a Taiwan that is neither a province of a CCP-ruled China nor the temporary seat of the ROC
(the political forefathers of the liberal DPP...In contrast, the Taiwan Solidarity Union was founded by pro-independence centrists who had tried and failed to reform the Kuomintang from within...Some belief that the small pro-Taiwan faction of the Kuomintang will join the pro-Chen pan-Green parties in the Legislative Yuan should they only win a narrow majority of its seats. Many analysts are predicting about 130 of Taiwan's 225 legislative seats will be won by DPP and TSU "Green" candidates, although numbers even higher or as low as 113 are also considered plausible, which may force the Greens to work with left-leaning pro-Taiwan independents to prevent a theoretical one seat majority from falling due to party switches.) were prosecuted as communist supporters of the "Beijing insurgency" and some were even assassinated or murdered under mysterious circumstances.

Ironically, it is the far-right Mainland Chinese who control the weakening Kuomintang and the other Pan-Blue parties that would rather a Taiwan ruled by the CCP than a Taiwan governed by Taiwanese.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Panama Jack
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posted 08 December 2004 12:47 PM      Profile for Panama Jack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by NDP Newbie:
CNN's coverage of the Presidential election earlier this year.

Republicans who support Chen are acting under outdated assumption that China and her allies are communist-minded, which has not been true since before the Deng Xiaoping era.


Since when could the Guomingdang (KMT) be considered communist leaning? Heralders of the "pro-unification" rhetoric, but hardly worshippers of Mao, Deng, or any other member of the CCP. They're the opposite side of the same coin that the old-school CPP is on, which is why they prefer them over the DPP.


quote:

Ironically, it is the far-right Mainland Chinese who control the weakening Kuomintang and the other Pan-Blue parties that would rather a Taiwan ruled by the CCP than a Taiwan governed by Taiwanese.

That's only for show, IMO -- most Taiwanese would like to keep the status quo if they could, and giving glib remarks regarding the "eventual reunfication with the motherland" seems to do the trick. Even Chen has said (again, only in rhetoric) that he wouldn't be opposed to unification if the PRC were to become a democratic society.

He ain't holding his breath.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 11 December 2004 12:45 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well what do you know?

The Kuomintang successfully stole the election this time.

I'm surprised they were competent enough to get it right...Now they'll be able to make a killing by hiding all the assets they stole from both the Chinese and the Taiwaense people.

(FYI: The NDP favour Taiwan's participating in global community and Bill Blaikey, specifically, is far more sympathetic to Taiwan than he is to China.)


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 11 December 2004 02:43 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that Taiwan could warm relations somewhat by handing back to China the imperial jewels and gold stolen by Chiang Kai Chek, may his blood scream for all eternity. His world anti-communist league aided and abetted terrorism around the world, including the condoms, er contras in Central America.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Panama Jack
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posted 11 December 2004 03:06 PM      Profile for Panama Jack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ya, as much as I hate to say it, if Chiang Kai Chek and Co. HADN'T "stolen" those imperial treasures (an entire mountain of antiquities), they would have most likely been destroyed by some Red Guard manaics during the Cultural Revolution. [A fact that many mainland archivists fully admit they're thankful for today.]

Certainly not an excuse today to continue to hoard them (in fact I seem to remember Taiwan sending a number of them back for the museum circuit, with the PRC promising to return them if Taiwan in turn sends back more for viewing.. ), but the stimga and lack of trust towards the CCP (which continues to widen since Taiwan's democraticization of 1989) makes sending them back permanently unrealistic.

Besides, as far as Beijing is concerned (and a minority of Taiwanese), these treasures are already in China!


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 11 December 2004 11:16 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
I think that Taiwan could warm relations somewhat by handing back to China the imperial jewels and gold stolen by Chiang Kai Chek, may his blood scream for all eternity. His world anti-communist league aided and abetted terrorism around the world, including the condoms, er contras in Central America.

The assets are controlled by the Kuomintang though, and not the Government of the Republic of China on Taiwan itself.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 12 December 2004 02:41 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And Chiang took the bank of China's wealth with him, too. The Chinese peasants who couldnt carry crates of gold any farther over the mountains were shot to death.

Sigmund Reis was another despot backed by the west and who robbed Korea of its wealth before fleeing to the States.

By many a neutral opinion on the matter, the imperial jewels belong in Peking from where they were stolen.

[ 12 December 2004: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 12 December 2004 02:45 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hard to say to whom they belong to, given that their original owners seized to exist more or less in 1911.
From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 12 December 2004 02:54 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If we apply the same losers-finders rule, then art work, gold and money stolen by the Nazis should remain in the hands of their wrongful owners. The Nazis ceased to exist in 1945, and yet the booty was scattered all over the world.

So I respectfully disagree. Too many Chinese died horrible deaths for those symbols of imperialism to remain on an island where they mean nothing to temporary caretakers.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 13 December 2004 10:25 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
If we apply the same losers-finders rule, then art work, gold and money stolen by the Nazis should remain in the hands of their wrongful owners. The Nazis ceased to exist in 1945, and yet the booty was scattered all over the world.

So I respectfully disagree. Too many Chinese died horrible deaths for those symbols of imperialism to remain on an island where they mean nothing to temporary caretakers.


I see no evidence that either the Kuomintang or the CCP has ever had respect for Chinese culture, except as ways that both use them as weapons to foster Chinese nationalism for their own political gain.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 13 December 2004 10:45 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that is a bit much, as both are indiginous creations of Chinese culture as influenced by western ideas.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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