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Author Topic: The customer is always right? Not anymore
Snuckles
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posted 06 July 2004 03:01 AM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
So much for the customer always being right.

Some retailers are deciding that the customer can be very, very wrong -- as in unprofitable. And some, including Best Buy Co. Inc., are discriminating between profitable customers and shoppers they lose money on.

Like a customer who ties up a salesworker but never buys anything, or who buys only during big sales. Or one who files for a rebate, then returns the item.


Read it here.


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 06 July 2004 03:08 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Holy Mixed Emotions, Batman!

I was all 'yeah, fire bad customers' while I was reading that article until it got to the part about banks 'prioritising' customers with large accounts...

I guess there's no way to punish bad customers without implicitly rewarding good ones, is there???


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 06 July 2004 03:15 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There have always been snooty shops where they make it clear that they don't want your business, if you don't look posh enough or fit in with their customer profile. On the other hand, once I bought a coat on sale at Holt Renfrew (posh shops often cut their prices far more than cheap or mid-range ones - the lovely coat was cheaper than its discounted sisters at the Bay) and the sales clerk was very nice to me although I think it was clear I wasn't from Upper Westmount or Outremont.

There are customers who do things like buying outfits, wearing them to a party, and returning them (Eatons used to have a very liberal return policy and some nasty folks like that took advantage of it) - but a lot of this article is about retailers castigating clients for simply being wary comparison shoppers.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 06 July 2004 05:57 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Selden is right. And I am one of them, those demon customers. When shopping, I don't give a rat's ass about company profits, I am there to get the best price I can for the quality of the good. I will shop somewhere else if the price is unreasonable, even if I did attract the attention of the sales clerk- which I always do, since a young person in a store like Best Buy is automatically suspect. "Hi, how are you doing, looking for something in particular?" Translation: I have my eye on you, you filthy shoplifting punk.

Yes, being a demon is sure a pain in the ass to the corporate profits.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
clearview
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posted 06 July 2004 08:51 AM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anchoress:
I was all 'yeah, fire bad customers' while I was reading that article until it got to the part about banks 'prioritising' customers with large accounts...

A friend of mine worked at a bank about 6 or 7 years ago. She was told explicitly that anyone with less than $40,000 in their accounts was to be dealt with as quickly as possible, not be given any special treatment, and then gotten rid of. Those with more than $40,000 or more were to be served graciously and all steps were to be taken to ensure they were happy with the service.


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
clearview
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posted 06 July 2004 08:56 AM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
There are customers who do things like buying outfits, wearing them to a party, and returning them (Eatons used to have a very liberal return policy and some nasty folks like that took advantage of it)

As did The Bay. My sister worked at The Bay for many years. She told me that a dress was returned by someone who claimed that it was never worn. The ladies department manager suspected otherwise as there was a funny smell eminating from the dress. They sent it to a lab to be tested and found formaldehyde all over the dress. They suspected that someone bought it for use during open casket viewing, and returned the dress once the person was buried.


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 06 July 2004 08:59 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The way banks deal with poorer clients is downright criminal, and measures to rectify such discrimination and ensure basic savings and cheque account services (not talking about credit) should be a condition of renewing their charters.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 06 July 2004 10:37 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Years ago I did some tech work for a Retail Management class, and got to listen in on all kinds of marketing inside scoop. I found out that there's a word for shoppers like me, who enter a store like Eddie Bauer and immediately head for the clearance rack: bottom feeders! LOL! As long as they keep putting $20 pants on that rack, I don't give a rat's ass what they think of me or my spending habits, but the name makes me laugh!

quote:
there was a funny smell eminating from the dress. They sent it to a lab to be tested and found formaldehyde all over the dress.

Did anyone die in the dress? If so, then your story is already at Snopes. With all due respect, I think your sister's tale belongs there as well.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
clearview
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posted 06 July 2004 10:56 AM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't hear that anyone died in the story my sister told. I guess it was too good a story to actually be true.
From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 06 July 2004 03:21 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I too am a person who could give a rat's arse about the corporate bottom line.

Though I do buy Canadian, and am willing to pay a bit more for that.

It's amazing how many prices are actually negotiable (like appliances at the Bay, for instance).


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
VoiceofTreason
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posted 06 July 2004 03:47 PM      Profile for VoiceofTreason     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Demon Customer.

My mother in-law is one. A certain retail-club has a very liberal return policy. She bought a PC about 6 years ago and returns it for the latest model (invariably cheaper and better) every 6-7 months. SO that initial purchase has turned into 6 new computers. Suffice to say - that particular company needs to rethink its returns policy.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 06 July 2004 04:13 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I was in school it was well known that HMV around the corner from campus had a similar "no questions asked" return policy. So, buy a CD you like, tape it, return it became common. I suspect that companies like HMV simply add up the cost of doing business this way and decide whether it's worth it. Other companies have similar policies. Eddie Bauer, for example, warranties the watch I bought 15 years ago for life, including the battery. Every few years I bring my watch in and they send it off for a new battery, a cleaning, etc. Eventually their replacement batteries are going to eat up their profit on that watch, but if they calculate in all the other things I've bought from them, and all the people I've extolled their virtues to then they may find that they're actually ahead.

Interesting note though: Eddie Bauer watches are no longer warrantied for life.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 06 July 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also HMV no longer gives returns on opened items. If they are defective you get exactly the same CD in return, otherwise you get nothing now.
They specifically said it was because people bought the CDs copied them then returned them.

From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Baldfresh
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posted 06 July 2004 06:08 PM      Profile for Baldfresh   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Uhm, pretty much every store (or at least every chain/corporation) operates on the principle of giving as little to the customer as possible while maximizing profits; that is, if something pisses of 14% of the potential base, but maximizes profit as opposed to 6% of the base being pissed but having higher costs, then 14% are very likely to be pissed. Lack of competition/monopolies are making this worse, as well.

From Les Simpsons: "Our prices discriminate, because we can't"


From: to here knows when | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 06 July 2004 07:05 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm worse than you Magoo, not only am I a "bottom feeder" at Eddie Bauer, there is none in Montréal, so when I'm in Ottawa I head there ... and to the sales rack. Their things really do last a long time.

I'd like to buy domestically-made goods as well, but in "ladies' wear", at least, it is getting almost impossible to do so...

One thing consumers could use is a Canadian-based catalogue retailer similar to Eddie Bauer, LL Bean, Lands' End etc. MEC is nice and does actually carry a lot of domestically-made products - and supposedly the imports are made under decent working conditions, but MEC is too exclusively sport oriented, unlike the others that also feature "sportswear" to wear at work etc.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 06 July 2004 07:38 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What do y'all think about "preferred shopper card" type arrangements, where you get special deals if you have the card, but the store in turn gets to track your purchasing record?
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 06 July 2004 08:05 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have no problems with those, since you have to provide almost no personal information to get one (and you can lie if you want to). All the stores care about is whether or not customer 123456 is likely to buy chips or pretzels with their beer - they don't really care about anything else.
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abnormal
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posted 06 July 2004 08:15 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Deleted due to duplicate post.

[ 06 July 2004: Message edited by: abnormal ]


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
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posted 06 July 2004 08:32 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
...buy a CD you like, tape it, return it became common. I suspect that companies like HMV simply add up the cost of doing business this way and decide whether it's worth it.

Most store's return policies have changed. However, even if they haven't the store has made an estimate of the percentage of people that do this and simply grossed up everyone else's prices to compensate.

quote:
...with less than $40,000 in their accounts was to be dealt with as quickly as possible, not be given any special treatment, and then gotten rid of. Those with more than $40,000 or more were to be served graciously and all steps were to be taken to ensure they were happy with the service.

quote:
The way banks deal with poorer clients is downright criminal, and measures to rectify such discrimination and ensure basic savings and cheque account services (not talking about credit) should be a condition of renewing their charters.

Retail banking is generally a money loser. I suspect the real condition re the charter should simply be that they continue to offer retail banking services period.

Even if you're a "high net worth individual", whatever that may mean, banks generally treat you like shit. That's their job. By the way, I do exempt private banking from this but that's a different world that I can only aspire to enter. "Would you like an coffee Sir? How about expresso? ..."

quote:
One thing consumers could use is a Canadian-based catalogue retailer similar to Eddie Bauer, LL Bean, Lands' End etc.

No guarantee of where things were made or under what conditions. Don't care what they say, they have little if any information re the original supplier to the manufacturer. For example, at the height of apartheid when no-one in the western world would deal with South Africa, or at least wouldn't admit to it, black Africa had a thriving business purchasing South African made goods, removing the labels, and sewing labels that said in "Made in Tanzania" or whatever in their place. The goods were then sold to individuals that would never have bought merchandise with a South African label.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 06 July 2004 08:35 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I have no problems with those, since you have to provide almost no personal information to get one (and you can lie if you want to). All the stores care about is whether or not customer 123456 is likely to buy chips or pretzels with their beer - they don't really care about anything else.

Well, if you don't lie about your personal info, the store might also determine that since you like pretzels, they'd like to send you a coupon. Or, to tie this back to the topic of the thread, that people who buy low-margin beer at their store don't buy a lot of other items, whereas people who buy wine also like to buy expensive meats and cheeses. So they might cut back on their beer stocks and start wooing wine customers instead. Which is maybe a good thing, maybe not. I mean, the beer drinkers still have to buy their beer somewhere.


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 06 July 2004 09:10 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I think it's more a 'know your market' thing. Managers would want to know what should be on their shelves - and perhaps what combination of things should be on sale.

Some of the most interesting statistical work I've seen recently is based on supermarket scanner data. These days, you can't expect shoppers to provide confidential data for free in order to predict whether or not they'll buy butter or margarine. But if you know that a given shopper is more likely to buy skim milk instead of homogenised, then you might be able to make an informed guess.


From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 July 2004 12:51 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Data mining, by the way, is a pretty huge business in the US and Canada. I don't know how much in Europe, since the EU Directives have hamstrung some of the more blatant corporate attempts at privacy invasion.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 07 July 2004 01:37 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I do tend to be a "bottom feeder" when it comes to buying stuff...especially at large chains.

Although with certain smaller local businesses I cut them some slack...I want to keep them in the neighbourhood. Its nice being able to walk to certain stores

As for the banks...once I became a mortgage slave I found that I was treated much better...they start throwing money at you because they know their going to make oodles of dough from interest charges for a decade or two.

I remember the old Bi-Way chain (long since gone bust)used to sell all kinds of clothing with "Made in Swaziland" tags on it during the apartheid era. Once apartheid ended, so did the tag-sewing industry in Swaziland


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 07 July 2004 01:58 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Yeah, I do tend to be a "bottom feeder" when it comes to buying stuff...especially at large chains.

One thing I didn't mention about "bottom feeders": we're a very necessary part of the retail "food chain". Stores need bottom feeders to clean out the last of their inventory. If they have 1000 pair of jeans to get rid of, and they aren't moving, even at $39.99, then they cut the price in half again, wait for the bottom feeder frenzy to subside, and voila! Room for the new season's inventory.

Before learning this I used to feel a little cheap and conspicuous heading over to the clearance rack. Now I feel like saying "you're welcome!".


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
HalfAnHourLater
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posted 07 July 2004 08:28 AM      Profile for HalfAnHourLater     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In response to the bank issue: for those of us with a bit of money, we can always consider credit unions.
Otherwise, to ensure adequate access to acccounts (unlike here in England, where it's next to impossible to open an account), we could do like much of mainland Europe and have the post office run savings accounts. Oh wait that would be like the government actually running the bacnk of canada..nevermind...

From: So-so-so-solidarité! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 07 July 2004 12:37 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Any business that wants to stay in business had better find out where it spends its money and what returns it gets for the money spent. Inevitably, some of that money is not well spent. No business should actively seek sales that will incur loss. We've all seen some really stupid ads: "We deliver anywhere in Canada." Oh, really? Are you going to helicopter that pizza to Takla Landing or Kemano? (I fought for years with suppliers who insisted that they could send me their product via FedX or UPS when neither came to my neck of the woods.)

The tough problem comes in restraining gung-ho sales types. They will promise the world and give away the shop at the boss's expense. All companies have limited abilities and they should be honest about that. If you deliver pizza, then include your 25 km limit in your ad. Those big posters in front of car dealerships that say "0 % financing" should also explain the catch. I guess I like truth in advertising.

I certainly don't blame a company for trying to control expenses, so long as they are up-front honest about it, and fair about it. If I live way out in the toolies, then the company should tell me ahead of time that extra delivery charges are my problem. Don't surprise me. (I think it's UPS that has a $50 bonding charge to bring things to Canada from the US. A lot of Canadians have been burnt by that one.) If they can't provide the product or service to me, for whatever reason, then they should stop advertising to me. I understand that they might not want my business; that's fair enough. Quite simply, they should stop trying to lure me in.

I knew an accountant with an unlisted phone. That enabled him to choose his customers. By not listing his phone, by not advertising in any way, he was able to avoid drop-in customers and work he really didn't want to do. Smart man. No hurt feelings.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
dee
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posted 07 July 2004 01:16 PM      Profile for dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Back when I was in high school there was a big department store chain (don't remember which) who sold gift certificates at a discounted rate. For example you paid $80 to get a $100 store gift certificate. At that time they also had no restriction on how much you to purchase before they gave cash change back.

I knew someone who used to buy the $100 dollar certificates at one cash register and use them to buy a package of gum at another register. Paid 80 bucks and left the store with $99 and a pack of gum. Needless to say both policies have long since changed.


From: pleasant, unemotional conversation aids digestion | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 07 July 2004 07:23 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As a semi-bottom-feeder - hey, only way to make ends meet - I had a VERY annoying experience today.

There was a street sale on a neighbourhood shopping street. I went to Yves Rocher in hopes of getting some decent-quality shampoo and conditioner - as did a lot of people, mostly grills. Found the product I usually bought - discontinued and marked down - took it inside. There was a long queue; I waited patiently like everyone. When my turn to pay came, the clerk said I had to buy one product from inside the shop for every discontinued product outside - I'd never seen such a policy at a sidewalk sale. Indeed the caveat was written - in tiny print - outdoors - but who looks at tiny print at a sidewalk sale. I was VERY pissed off. I didn't feel like getting into a tiff with an overworked, underpaid shop clerk, but I left the stuff on the counter and walked away. Too bad. I shopped there for many years.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 08 July 2004 10:25 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hear you! My favourite bit of "fine print", and this is very common at clearance sales, closeouts, etc., is when a huge rack of, say, pants says "As Low as $9.99", but when you look there's a single pair of robins egg blue rugby pants, 26 Waist, 34 leg, with a stain, for $9.99. All the other pants start at $29.99 and go up from there.

In my world the sign, by law, would have to say "As High as $49.99", and if you're still interested enough to see about the blue rugbys you can go ahead, but at least you know what's really on that rack.

One of my more amusing run-ins with absurd policy happened when I went to Winners, to buy some underwear for Mrs. Magoo. I found a package of the kind she wanted, and it was $5.99. Then I found another one, and this one was only $3! I brought them both to the cash, fully expecting to pay $3 for each, but the sales clerk rang them up as-is, and the total was over $10. I pointed out to her that one was on sale, and that presumably the other simply hadn't been marked down yet, but wasn't the sale price in the computer?

The clerk insisted that they were different prices because they were "different", but I pointed out to her that the packages were identical, and the manufacturer's product number was identical too.

An assistant manager came over and basically insisted that this was normal store policy, that occassionally identical items in the same department will have different prices and there was nothing she could do about it. I quite loudly reiterated everything she said, and did my best to emphasize the absurdity of this policy to any other shoppers nearby. I took the on-sale pair and left the full price behind.

When I got back to my office, I phoned Winners head office and spoke to a customer relations employee. She informed me that Winners marks products down by date, and in fact the date a product enters their store is on the price tag. Apparently one pair had been in the store longer and had been automatically marked down by the system, the other hadn't. I pointed out that this is entirely counterintuitive to a shopper, and that we really don't care if one product has been in the store for 3 weeks longer than another identical product, but I was polite (since there was nobody around to hear me anyway ) and thanked her for her time.

And of course we all know why perverse and illogical policies exist in the first place: so min-wage employees on the front lines of customer dissatisfaction can wring their hands and say "but it's policy... there's nothing I can do." Or as the pimply-faced teen on the Simpsons puts it, "I dunno... I'm gonna have to ask my manager".


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 08 July 2004 11:12 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
One thing I didn't mention about "bottom feeders": we're a very necessary part of the retail "food chain"....

Thats why we have outlet malls and Liquidation World where clearance products can be efficiently sold. I think the point is to get the "bottom feeders" out of the high margin stores.

From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 08 July 2004 01:17 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those who live in remote parts of Canada are familiar with the "grid" system, or "mileage" system, of pricing, and how nuts this can be. Essentially, a product price includes a transportation cost based on distance from a major city, like Vancouver. In theory, the farther away, the higher the cost. The trouble is that the clerks in the city who make up the pricing schedules, don't know geography. So, two towns 1200 & 1240 kms from the city can have radically different prices for the same thing, with the farther town having the cheaper price. It is not possible to get big companies to change their grids.

And, we run into absolute insanities, "We don't ship to Texas." This, a response as to why they didn't ship to Houston, BC.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 08 July 2004 02:56 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A friend of mine is a substitute teacher, and in the summers works with a large class of kids with significant special needs.

He is also an inveterate 'bottom feeder'and clothing buyer.

Last summer he told me, with some delight, about a field trip on which he took the 20 or so special needs kids to the downtown area. On arrival, he looked around at all the stores, and asked himself 'Now, which one of these stores was the most haughty and rude to me this year?"

Holt Renfrew won the prize, and got a visit from the class. His description of the look of horror and panic on the part of the staff as the class entered the store has me chuckling even now.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 08 July 2004 03:03 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh. My. God. LOL! I hope he took them to the "petting zoo" they have in the Furs department.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged

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