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Author Topic: I'm So Excited by Microsoft Vista. Not.
radiorahim
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posted 31 July 2005 10:14 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Like, wow, Microsoft's Vista, the former Longhorn, is now only more than a year away.

With this latest beta, we're finally going to see lots of really new, cool features.
For example, it's going to have speech recognition! How cool is that!?

Since IBM's OS/2 Warp introduced that feature to operating systems in 1996, we haven't had more than half-a-dozen new operating systems with voice recognition built in.

Better still, it's going to include a new DRM (digital rights management system) —Microsoft's RMS (Rights Management Services) client. That way I know when I buy music or videos off the Web, I know Microsoft will make sure that I can't illegally back it up or put it on an iPod or anything else like that. It's so nice of them to make sure I can only use the files that I bought on real Vista systems.

There's also this spiffy driver protection plan. With it, I know that any equipment I buy has to come from a vendor who has made a deal with Microsoft. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a network or graphics card from someone who doesn't have a contract with Microsoft.


Steven J. Vaughan Nichols looks at Microsoft's new Vista operating system on E-week

Looks like you're going to need a 3 GHz. Pentium IV (or AMD equivalent) with 512 MB RAM to run this new monstrosity of an operating system when (and if) it comes out next year.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 31 July 2005 10:26 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You ask why I am still using Windows. After reading that article, that WILL be the last straw.

Up yours Bill Gates and the spyware you rode in on.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 31 July 2005 10:34 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well there are quite a few enthusiasts of "the Penguin" here on babble should you decide to take the plunge.

Most of the tech prognosticators I've read recently are predicting a bit of an upswing in Linux adoption between now and 2008...in the 3-5% of the market range.

But I think the tech surveyors are counting "paid-for" versions of Linux and not taking into account all the folks using "freebee" versions...which is probably most in the home market.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
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posted 02 August 2005 05:08 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of the reasons I use XP is that I can buy a new device and plug it in, and most of the time it works, as opposed to Linux where I would have to hunt high and low for the right drivers. If they do stupid shit like not recognize hardware that doesn't come from MS, they can forget about my even looking at Vista.

I am less concerned about DRM because it won't take long for a crack to come out.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 August 2005 07:48 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me too, Gir. I love the idea of Linux. But I know someone who uses it, who isn't all that knowledgeable about computers. She's fine with it, but there are all sorts of things she can't do with her computer because she doesn't know how to do it in Linux.

I'll be in the same boat if I switch.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 02 August 2005 07:52 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just wait a month or two after Longhorn comes out. Someone will disable that part of the shell.

I mean, my friends have managed to extract IE and Messenger from the XP shell.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 02 August 2005 08:01 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Papal Bull:
Just wait a month or two after Longhorn comes out. Someone will disable that part of the shell.

Vista, PB, Vista. Get with the times, old man

From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 07 August 2005 02:22 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
One of the reasons I use XP is that I can buy a new device and plug it in, and most of the time it works, as opposed to Linux where I would have to hunt high and low for the right drivers. If they do stupid shit like not recognize hardware that doesn't come from MS, they can forget about my even looking at Vista.

For the most part, with Linux distros running on the 2.6 kernel this problem has been resolved. No it isn't perfect yet and could use some improvement...but I've had plenty of device driver problems with Window$ too over the years.

I've been using Xandros Desktop OS 3 on my "main" computer for about eight months and haven't had a device yet that it couldn't recognize.

You have to bear in mind the process that Linux developers have to go through when a manufacturer refuses to support Linux. The developers have to reverse engineer the Window$ drivers to get a device to work. And of course alot of the time these folks are doing it as a labour of love.

Linux distros have been coming out roughly every six months. The changes are more incremental rather than a complete overhaul as is the case with M$.

The result is that we're now seeing Linux distros that include certain types of support that don't exist in Window$. For example Linux was way ahead of Micro$oft in support for the new 64 bit processors.

You want to be able to search your hard drive? You can wait for M$ Vi$ta or you can use Suse Linux right now.

The "Skype" VOIP software is bundled with the operating system in a couple of Linux distros I've used recently (Xandros and Mepis).

You don't have to install a third party CD burning application on Linux. K3b, the KDE-based Linux CD burning software knocks the socks off of Roxio's Easy CD Creator or Nero.

quote:
Me too, Gir. I love the idea of Linux. But I know someone who uses it, who isn't all that knowledgeable about computers. She's fine with it, but there are all sorts of things she can't do with her computer because she doesn't know how to do it in Linux.

I'll be in the same boat if I switch.


The only things these days that you really "can't" do with Linux is play multimedia Window$ games...and you might have to do some "geeky" things to get M$ media files to work.

The way to make the switch painlessly is with a secondary machine. That's the way I did it...and over time just fell in love with "the Penguin".

Right now its garage sale season with plenty of old clunker computers around. Scoop one and use it as a Linux "test box".

If you want something more "modern", you can find used Pentium III 1000 MHz. machines these days for $200...or 500 MHz. PIII's for around $100. XP runs pretty pokey slow on those old machines but Linux works quite well.

Problems with viruses, trojans, e-mail worms, spyware etc. have disappeared. When I was mainly running Window$, even though I was more "religious" than most folks at updating my system, running scans etc. I'd always get hit with at least one or two "critters" a year. Now I don't really even think about them much.

Although M$ hasn't yet published any "official" specs on what hardware you'll need to run it (they're usually laughable anyway), from speculation I've seen you'll need at least a Pentium IV 3.0 GHz. machine with 512 MB RAM to get any reasonable performance out of it...so that means another cycle of buying new computers. Have you budgeted for a new machine?

BTW "Official" support for Windows XP Home Edition expires on December 31, 2006. If you're running the "Pro" edition you'll have longer support as its target market is the corporate desktop.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Anonymous
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posted 08 August 2005 05:30 AM      Profile for Mr. Anonymous     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Apparantly, Apple's OS's are both very stable and have excellent compatability with hardware and older software (backward and forward compatability, ie. older programs run newer stuff well, and newer programs run older stuff well). Also, less malicious programs (viruses, spyware, etc) and general skullduggery than one often gets with microsoft.

The downsides would be price, less available software, and maybe the inablility to use Linux (although the WINE program apparantly is getting pretty good at running windows programs)

Correct?


From: Somewhere out there... Hey, why are you logging my IP address? | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 10 August 2005 02:39 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mac OSX as I understand is based on Free BSD Unix which has a different type of open source license than the GPL used for Linux.

As I understand the Free BSD license allows companies to "fork" features into proprietary software while the GPL does not.

Yeah the Mac OS has a very user friendly interface once you get used to it and the relative immunity from malware that Linux has but at one whopper of a pricetag. They also look pretty.

With Linux you have free (or cheap) software running on cheap hardware. With Window$ you have expensive software running on cheap hardware. With a Mac you have expensive software running on expensive hardware.

But if you can afford it (I can't), its not a bad way to go.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 10 August 2005 10:07 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Although M$ hasn't yet published any "official" specs on what hardware you'll need to run it (they're usually laughable anyway), from speculation I've seen you'll need at least a Pentium IV 3.0 GHz. machine with 512 MB RAM to get any reasonable performance out of it...so that means another cycle of buying new computers. Have you budgeted for a new machine?

BTW "Official" support for Windows XP Home Edition expires on December 31, 2006. If you're running the "Pro" edition you'll have longer support as its target market is the corporate desktop.


Wonderful. My 2003 laptop just barely meets the specs you outlined above.

I can't buy another laptop for awhile - we just budgeted a new computer for my wife and my son is next for university. Question to you - I have the XP home edition - if I buy a pre-packaged Linux platform , would I download it via the CD/DVD drive and would it automatically configure my loaded software to Linux? Also, what would happen to the MS software currently in my machine? Would it delete it or quarantine it? I don't know if I would have enough memory to have both systems locked up in my computer.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fitz
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posted 10 August 2005 10:55 AM      Profile for Fitz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
AE,

Is there any particular reason you feel compelled to update? What are the features that it'll add to your life that make the monetary and time investment worthwhile? Having just retired a Pentium 200Mhz computer bought in 1997 to move to a PIII 550 bought at an auction, I'm of the firm opinion that too many people feel like they have to have the latest, greatest whatzzit without considering what their present and likely future needs are going to be.

And I'm running resource-pig programs and burning DVDs and things that most people think that you have to have the latest, greatest for on a computer that around 5 years old. Maxxing-out the RAM will take care of most of the issues for most people.

My two bits FWIW


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
ouroboros
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posted 10 August 2005 02:27 PM      Profile for ouroboros     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:

Question to you - I have the XP home edition - if I buy a pre-packaged Linux platform , would I download it via the CD/DVD drive and would it automatically configure my loaded software to Linux? Also, what would happen to the MS software currently in my machine? Would it delete it or quarantine it? I don't know if I would have enough memory to have both systems locked up in my computer.

You can install Linux in two ways.

One is Linux only.

If you do this you will only have Linux on your computer, all your Windows programs will no longer be there (nor would Windows itself of course). You would also have to back up your data (letters,email,music ect) because it'll get deleted during the install (or at least you should be ready for it to be deleted).

I there are programs that could read most of your data for Linux, and most of the time it'll look almost the same as in Windows. Note, most and almost. It won't always work or look just the same under Linux.

The other way is called "Dual Boot"

In this way you have Windows, plus all the Windows software, on one partition on your hard drive and Linux, plus all the Linux software, on another partition hard drive. With a bit of work you can read data between the two partitions. If you only have one box to install Linux on this could be the best way. But back up your data! I once wiped a drive because I misread an option. I was very happy I backed stuff up after that.

Personally, I think Radiorahim’s idea of buying a cheap box to play around with Linux is the best way. Linux can be a pain sometime. It does some stuff in a weird way. I like Linux and use it and am happy with it most of the time but once in a while it’ll act odd and even my friends who are Linux admins for a living can’t figure it out.

I have a old laptop and Red Hat (Fedora Core 4) runs on it with a windows like desktop (gnome) fine, although a bit slow. Debian runs very fast on it but in text mode only. I, nor my friends can get X-windows working on it. Suse wouldn’t install at all and Mandrake installs but doesn’t boot. Sometimes, Linux just acts strange.

But you can’t beat the price and it’s fun to play around with and learn. Plus Windows acts strange a lot and is evil.

Most cities have “Linux User Groups” (LUG) that could help out. They have talks on how to use Linux, installfests to help members install Linux and all sorts of other stuff. Here’s the webpage for Ottawa's LUG.


From: Ottawa | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 10 August 2005 03:02 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous:
Apparantly, Apple's OS's are both very stable and have excellent compatability with hardware and older software (backward and forward compatability, ie. older programs run newer stuff well, and newer programs run older stuff well). Also, less malicious programs (viruses, spyware, etc) and general skullduggery than one often gets with microsoft.

The downsides would be price, less available software, and maybe the inablility to use Linux (although the WINE program apparantly is getting pretty good at running windows programs)

Correct?


Actually, you can run Linux on an Apple box. There's at least one distribution that specializes in running on Macs (Yellow Dog Linux). Linux will actually run on pretty much anything--toasters, big iron IBM mainframes, Xboxes, Playstations, cell phones, PDAs, yadda yadda.

On the Windows/Linux front, something I've been recommending to friends is at least doing a dual-boot and doing all their internet stuff (web, email) from Linux. Linux has great web browsers and very good email and pretty dashed good chat stuff, and it's effectively immune to viruses. That gets rid of the major vulnerability of your Windows box by cutting it off from the internet, which really Windows just should never be hooked up to.

Keep Windows for whatever you need it for--play your games on it, and work gradually on questions like office stuff and multimedia. Personally, I don't actually use Windows for anything any more, but it's still there if I want to play an old game or something. If I were a heavy gamer I might see what this Transgaming thing is all about. Of course, if I were a heavy gamer I might get a Playstation.

One thing that pushed me gradually towards Linux once I was dual-booting was that from Linux, you can see and use files from the Windows partition, but from Windows you can't see the Linux stuff at all.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 10 August 2005 03:11 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not to mention that with even basic "wine" you can run those rare Windows programs that don't have equivilants in the Linux world ... and if really ncessary you might want to invest a few bucks in cross-over-office for the more complicated Windows apps.
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 10 August 2005 03:14 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anti-MS group aims to block Vista
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Betray My Secrets
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Babbler # 9834

posted 10 August 2005 04:00 PM      Profile for Betray My Secrets     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The movement's a fraud: There's no way a Republican (or Hell, anyone active in either party) would preach in favour of technological and Internet civil liberties.

Even Europe is turning fascist on this one, folks.


From: Guyana | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 10 August 2005 08:01 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fitz:
AE,

Is there any particular reason you feel compelled to update? What are the features that it'll add to your life that make the monetary and time investment worthwhile? Having just retired a Pentium 200Mhz computer bought in 1997 to move to a PIII 550 bought at an auction, I'm of the firm opinion that too many people feel like they have to have the latest, greatest whatzzit without considering what their present and likely future needs are going to be.

And I'm running resource-pig programs and burning DVDs and things that most people think that you have to have the latest, greatest for on a computer that around 5 years old. Maxxing-out the RAM will take care of most of the issues for most people.

My two bits FWIW



Oh I don't want to upgrade to a new computer, just wondering about a new OS.

I hear a lot of chatter about Linux so I'm curious if it would be a better platform for what I do.

Thanks for everyone's advice on this.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 10 August 2005 09:44 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The December 31st, 2006 cut-off for WinXP Home updates is what M$ is saying right now. They have been known to extend support at the last minute...and I suppose it'll depend on how quickly they put out Vista.

If you switch to XP Pro...there should be at least security updates to 2011.

Installing Linux on notebooks can be a little more work than on a desktop...mainly because of proprietary hardware. IBM Thinkpads tend to be the best notebook candidates for installing Linux.
I installed Mandrake 10.1 on my Thinkpad and the installation went perfectly...it recognized all of my hardware on installation with no special configurations required.

If you aren't reasonably familiar with disk partitioning, I wouldn't recommend doing a dual boot as your first Linux installation...go the "spare box" route. That way if you mess something up, you can wipe it and no harm is done because you haven't got anything important on the machine anyway.

There are many different Linux distributions and you'll probably want to play a bit till you find one that's just right for you anyway.

As anti-M$ as I am, I don't recommend that newbies just wipe their machines and install Linux. Its just too big and scarey a change to do all at once. Do it slowly and gradually. When you reach the point where you find yourself using the old clunker box running Linux more than your "shiny new" Windows box then its time to change.

Right now I'm the other way around. My "newest" box is running Linux and my clunkiest oldest box is running Windows 2000 and I hardly ever use it anymore...and actually, most of the time all I'm doing is security updates on it.

I do find a lot of merit in RP's comments about keeping Window$ off the net. He's right IMHO that Window$ was never really designed to be connected to the net...its just got too many security problems.

quote:
I hear a lot of chatter about Linux so I'm curious if it would be a better platform for what I do.

Thanks for everyone's advice on this.


The really biggest drawback on using Linux is multi-media Windows games.

If you're not a gamer, then I think you'd be happy with Linux.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged

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