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Topic: In a skid, I would want to be driving . . . .

Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 30 December 2004 02:49 AM

The various threads on SUV's have me thinking about one of my pet peeves: cars are built with some obvious problems. For example, in a skid, I would want to be driving a balanced vehicle, one with equal weight on all four wheels. The average car is front end heavy; pickups notoriously so. The reason is that engines are so heavy. SUV's often need four wheel drive because they are so front end heavy that they are un-manageable without 4x4. The Audi company proved this by designing the Quatro from the ground up as a reasonably balanced 4x4.

Some people reading this will be thinking that the answer is front wheel drive, but they are wrong. FWD vehicles are often tail end light. Sure they have plenty of traction on the front wheels, but in a skid they easily wind up going backward.

From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650

posted 30 December 2004 04:02 AM

A Subaru Legacy.

From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged

Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 December 2004 09:56 AM

I've had a lot of experience with both rear wheel and front wheel drive, and I would prefer FWD for winter, rear drive for our _other_ season. Overall, I'd much prefer on-demand all wheel drive for both seasons.

From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged

The Hegemo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5176

posted 30 December 2004 12:50 PM

I don't really have a handle on all the physics behind it, but my understanding is that the only advantage SUVs have in terms of winter driving is that their higher wheelbase and 4WD makes them somewhat less likely to get stuck in deep snow. But in terms of being able to drive on snow and ice without skidding, they perform no better than cars.

From: The Persistent Vegetative States of America | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 30 December 2004 01:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by The Hegemo:
I don't really have a handle on all the physics behind it, but my understanding is that the only advantage SUVs have in terms of winter driving is that their higher wheelbase and 4WD makes them somewhat less likely to get stuck in deep snow. But in terms of being able to drive on snow and ice without skidding, they perform no better than cars.

No, they don't. The sad part is that many of them really don't have the advantages of four wheel drive even though they come equipped with the parts. Four wheel drive was invented for off-road conditions. Using 4x4 on pavement requires differentials front and rear and in the transfer case. Now, if those aren't limited slip differentials, the total effect is the same as a standard rear wheel drive car. The owner has paid all that money and got nothing for it.

From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Agent 204
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4668

posted 03 January 2005 07:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cougyr:

Some people reading this will be thinking that the answer is front wheel drive, but they are wrong. FWD vehicles are often tail end light. Sure they have plenty of traction on the front wheels, but in a skid they easily wind up going backward.

FWD cars, in my experience, are less likely to fishtail, but harder to recover if you do. The secret is, unlike a RWD car, you should not immediately take your foot off the gas, because the engine braking effect can cause the front wheels to break away, so you can't steer out of the skid. If you're driving a standard, pushing in the clutch is ok, but otherwise you have to keep your foot on the gas until you've stabilized the situation... just the opposite of what instinct (and most older driver training classes) will tell you to do.

From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged

Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 03 January 2005 08:56 PM

I had a FWD 1982 Turkey (er.... Tercel; sorry!) and not long after I purchased it, I was going down a slippery hill to make a left turn at the foot of it, and the sonofabitch just plowed forward, with the right front wheel hitting the curb, turned sideways. Result: badly bent front wheel (I suspect these Japanese econoboxes were made of tin back then).

From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged

Papal Bull
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7050

posted 03 January 2005 10:38 PM

I find that driving my family's Chevy Venture on the ice to be a most manageable and compatable beast.

From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged

Embarassed American
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7608

posted 03 January 2005 10:50 PM

(anything but) A 1995 Ford Thunderbird with rear wheel drive. Not only was it the shittiest winter car I ever drove but in light rain conditions, the back end would fishtail as the wheels spun. I used to have to put 5- 70 lb. sacks of sand it the back to get any control in the snow. I just donated it to the kidney foundation and got a Suzuki Forenza with front wheel drive and drove it on the Iowa ice this morning. It seemed OK but we're supposed to get a major snowstorm Tues night into Wednesday so we'll have a real test then.

[ 03 January 2005: Message edited by: Embarassed American ]

From: Cedar Rapids, Iowa | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged

miles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7209

posted 03 January 2005 10:52 PM

I guess no one would prefer to be driving either a Dodge Dart or Ford Pinto in a skid?

From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged

WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 03 January 2005 11:17 PM

A bicycle.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

Melsky
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4748

posted 03 January 2005 11:38 PM

A dog sled!

From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

James
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5341

posted 03 January 2005 11:55 PM

A rear-wheel drive vehicle; so that I could steer the rear with the throttle.

Ask any driving professional.

From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 05 January 2005 09:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James:
A rear-wheel drive vehicle; so that I could steer the rear with the throttle.
Ask any driving professional.

Do they ever put front wheel drives on a race track?

From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 05 January 2005 09:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cougyr:
Do they ever put front wheel drives on a race track?

Austin Mini-Coopers used to wipe bigger Mustangs and Corvettes on tracks like Mosport on the curves - but lose on the straights.

From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged

James
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5341

posted 05 January 2005 09:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cougyr:
Do they ever put front wheel drives on a race track?

I think that one of the European road car series may run front or all-wheel drive cars (you always see the Audis cleaning up) and perhaps some ralley classes. All of the major racing series are stictly rear-wheel drive.

From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged

ReeferMadness
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2743

posted 06 January 2005 02:17 AM

A dog cart. With a helmet, elbow pads and knee pads.

From: Way out there | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged

Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076

posted 06 January 2005 10:35 AM

quote:
Ford Pinto in a skid

Look on the bright side. If you crash on a day like today, hey, at least you'll be warm.

From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002 | IP: Logged

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