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Topic: Gas Prices Clobber McMansions
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scooter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5548
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posted 27 June 2008 08:01 AM
My big worry is not for the rich first world countries but for the poorer countries that subsidize the price of gasoline and diesel.For example Malaysia spent $14 billion last year to reduce fuel prices. That is 3.9% of their 2007 GDP, $1279 USD for every employed person, or nearly half of the foreign aid they received. Venezuela, were most people can't afford a car, lets the rich buy their gasoline at less then $0.12 per litre. For those who are curious 1 barrel of oil produces 50 to 75L of gasoline depending on the refinery.
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 27 June 2008 10:47 AM
Funnily enough I think I might be seeing this change play out just down the road from us. I live in a rural area. That's really cottagy with some big 'cottages' (actually more like mchouses) in the area. Very beautiful and very desirable. Lake views and everything. An old farmstead went up for sale last year (one of the last in the area) and I checked it out to see how much land like that was going for. I discovered that it had be already divided up for development into about 20 or so estate sized lots. The owners of course wanting to cash in so to speak and make more money then if it was just sold as a farm unit. Beyond the fact that I was urked to see perfectly decent agricultural land go the big house/cottage route I was interested to see what happens with it. It's still up for sale and according to a real estate agent there has been no real interest in it either. They couldn't understand why either. They said that a couple of years ago that sort of land would have been snapped up by a developer within a month or so, because it's rare around here for that to happen and especially for that to happen in a location so close to a lake. It's a dream piece of property. I asked them whether or not they thought that maybe the market was changing because of things like high gas prices, energy costs and the uncertainty around the economic viability with transportation as well as the salability of those estate type houses. The person looked at me blankly and said...um..no that's crazy, that will never happen in Canada. Of course there's no way that I actually know why it's not selling, but I do wonder. There have been some really nice big houses up for sale around here that have been taking forever to sell or end up selling after the prices are reduced. This apparently isn't what it's been like in years past. I hear more conversations about energy and people complaining about how much it costs to heat and run their big houses and of course how gas prices are hitting their pocket book. I guess I will continue to watch and see if as the real estate agent says, 'its just one of those wierd blips' or whether or not it's an actual tread.
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 27 June 2008 12:03 PM
quote: Originally posted by Boom Boom: [qb]The Amish still use these things, don't they?
Yes of course. How could I forget. *grin* I meant with more non-amish/mennonite peeps of course. It's interesting actually since I've been looking into it. With gas prices where they are now and where they are predicted to be an when you calculate food, medical and all that stuff it is a lot less them us getting a new car and paying for gas. Plus for us we'd also get the benefit of the manure and their mowing capabilities which cuts costs in other places. The biggest problem I've run into though, in this area, is the lack of a local 'blacksmith' to keep them shoed and that would entail long drives, in a trailer and thusly paying for the gas and having to have a vehicle or pay for a vehicle to take them. Then there is the calculation of how much greenhouse gases that the horses produce as well as for the things they need vs. the same drive in a car. Of course there are other cons like you have to take car of them every day unlike a car which you can just leave sitting in the driveway. It's an interesting exercise though in exploring the possibility and working through the whole 'system' on a wholistic level to see whether or not it is truly 'greener' in both material and environmental costs, but that's just me, I'm a geek that way. [ 27 June 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 27 June 2008 01:36 PM
quote: Originally posted by scooter:
That would turn into a huge public health nightmare. Read up on what Toronto was like when the horse ruled the road. "Yuck" comes to mind.High fuel prices will mean the end of rural living. I'm already seeing it on Vancouver Island were the rural pickup truck is nearly impossible to sell.
Yes but we're not talking about a city or a high density area like Toronto. That would be silly. Not talking likely about huge numbers either as I said I can't see everyone suddenly going that route and the horse ruling the road again like it did in the past. I can see it happening in smaller numbers, in more rural areas, like it already does. Take a drive down HWY 86 near Elmira on Sunday morning at about 9:20 am. More buggies then cars by far and it's hysterical to watch them all passing each other. I also don't think that high gas prices will be the death of rural living. I think it will change it's character and rejig it a lot but your just as likely to see the commuter set moving out and different set of people moving in who want things like places where they can grow their own food. I think there will be a more localizing of economies for a lot of things, food just being one of them. It's more then likely that we're going to see that outlying rural areas supplying the higher density areas with more locally produced goods. It's already happening in a small sense where I live with food and some local craftsman have seen a rise in demand for things they make as well. I know a basketmaker who is permenantly on back order now, with her best seller being shopping baskets.
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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500_Apples
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12684
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posted 27 June 2008 02:31 PM
quote: Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Actually, most of the population of Canada lived in rural areas before the introduction of the horseless carriage. Who knows, maybe cities will become unviable (is that a word?) in the future and people will have to move to the country.
Errr guys, the structural changes you refer to would take long-term change. The Toyota Prius was a small fraction of one company's research budget for a small number of years and it gets double the fuel efficiency of most cars. The Chevy Volt is coming out in a few years, it's planned to have those 50 miles/gallon.... after being able to drive 40 miles just from the plug in charge. Cars are not inherently evil, and they will adapt.
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006
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jrootham
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 838
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posted 27 June 2008 02:46 PM
No details or links offhand.I've been operating under that analysis for so long I have no connection to the original sources. OTOH it shouldn't be hard to work up. Run the footprint calculations for reasonable differences between urban and rural dwellers. Urban Studies papers should be around.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 04 July 2008 05:07 PM
quote: The biggest problem I've run into though, in this area, is the lack of a local 'blacksmith' to keep them shoed and that would entail long drives, in a trailer and thusly paying for the gas and having to have a vehicle or pay for a vehicle to take them. Then there is the calculation of how much greenhouse gases that the horses produce as well as for the things they need vs. the same drive in a car.
Do it yourself. Ranchers don't load their cayuses into trailers to have their feet maintained. Hoof care isn't that hard to do. The biggest reason there are fewer itinerant farriers is not dealing with hooves, it is dealing with the overweight, spoiled barnyard pets attached to them plus the buckle bunny nuisances that own them.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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