Author
|
Topic: Death in Stockwell
|
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938
|
posted 16 August 2005 01:15 PM
quote: [F]rom the moment de Menezes entered the station, his fate was sealed.Another witness, Mark Whitby, told of hearing people shouting, 'Get down, get own,' and then seeing de Menezes run onto the train 'looking like a cornered fox'. Three plainclothes police followed, one holding a black automatic pistol. De Menezes was tripped, pushed to the floor of the carriage and shot in the head seven times. No one knows what went through the young man's mind in the last moments of his life. Having been attacked just weeks earlier, he may have believed the casually dressed white men chasing him were part of the same gang. He may have been thinking of the experience of his cousin who was caught by immigration officers in America and deported before he had the chance to finish saving for his dream home. Now de Menenzes is dead and no one will ever know.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1548808,00.html
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kuri
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4202
|
posted 16 August 2005 02:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by Mr. Magoo: I could see destroying any video evidence as part of the coverup.
If I must spell it out, that's what I was getting at. ETA: The Met has lied about this incident before. They lied about the jacket and the entry into the station. Why is it unreasonable to speculate they may be lying about the CCTV as well? [ 16 August 2005: Message edited by: kurichina ]
From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
kuri
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4202
|
posted 17 August 2005 06:12 AM
I find the statements relayed by the police in this Scotsman article fairly weird, but also a bit telling of institutionalized racism. quote: One surveillance officer admitted he could not identify Mr de Menezes because he was relieving himself as the Brazilian left his home - a block of flats in Tulse Hill where it was thought one of the bombers, Hussain Osman, lived."As he walked out of my line of vision I checked the photographs and transmitted that it would be worth someone else having a look. I should point out that, as I observed this male exiting the block, I was in the process of relieving myself. "At this time I was not able to transmit my observations and switch on the video camera at the same time. There is therefore no video footage of this male." A second officer also failed to give a positive identification but claimed the suspect had "distinctive Mongolian eyes".
So you have one guy who can't identify the person because he's taking a piss, and a second who also can't, but you know, who cares because he has "Mongolian eyes" so surely it was prudent to follow him to the station and kill him, right? After all, it's so hard to tell the difference between all those people with distinctive Mongolian eyes. The mind just reels at this sort of thing.
From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308
|
posted 17 August 2005 02:39 PM
From the article: quote: By studying footage of attacks and even interviewing failed bombers, senior Met officers drew up a list of 'precursor signals' that generally occur shortly before detonation of a device. Most have not been made public but include the potential bomber looking 'detached' from his or her surroundings and becoming introspective.
I'm in trouble! I usually look "detached" from my surroundings and/or introspective, especially when I'm on transit (if I'm not reading). And I carry a big pack. Remind me to stay off the tube if I visit London. . . . Say, does anyone else here feel confident in the ability of cops to tell the difference between looking "introspective" and maybe nervous, etc. on the one hand, and indigestion on the other?
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273
|
posted 18 August 2005 03:43 AM
Link to a previous thread on this topic, now closed.So a new version of the facts is emerging, and it seems Sir Ian Blair was lying to us (surprise!). Menezes did not try to run away from the police who were following him. He did not try to vault over the turnstiles. He stopped in the station to pick up a free newspaper, walked casually onto a train, and sat down. He was not wearing a bulky jacket, but a light denim one. He was not carrying a bag or a rucksack. The lawyer for the Menezes family is calling for Ian Blair's resignation. 15 questions the Menezes family wants answered
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
kuri
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4202
|
posted 20 August 2005 06:31 AM
Sir Ian tried to stall killing probe quote: SIR Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, tried to delay an independent investigation into the fatal shooting of an innocent man mistaken for a suicide bomber as he felt the force's main terror inquiry would be compromised, police have admitted.... An IPCC spokesman said the inquiry may be widened to look at whether the police deliberately misled the public.
The Scotsman has an index of all stories related to the Menezes murder, actually.
From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Drinkmore
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7371
|
posted 25 August 2005 07:06 PM
From the Times: quote: Army and police war of words on last moments underground By Daniel McGrory, Michael Evans and Stewart Tendler POLICE marksmen and army surveillance teams following Jean Charles de Menezes onto a Tube train could not receive orders in the vital moments before he was shot dead because their radios did not work underground.This communication failure has emerged as the likely reason why Scotland Yard commanders were not told that the 27-year-old Brazilian was not the suicide bomber that they were hunting. The undercover officers sitting alongside Mr de Menezes are understood to have decided he was not a threat, but they could not get this message back to Gold Command at the Yard nor relay it to the marksmen.
From: the oyster to the eagle, from the swine to the tiger | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273
|
posted 03 August 2007 03:58 PM
Menezes cops knew of "massive cock-up" quote: August 3, 2007 - The Mirror Rumours swept through Scotland Yard within hours of innocent Jean Charles de Menezes being shot dead by anti-terror police.But no one bothered to tell their boss Sir Ian Blair, it was revealed yesterday. Detectives not connected to the case heard of a "massive cock-up" and that a "Brazilian tourist" had been shot. Even off-duty officers watching cricket at Lord's heard of a "terrible mistake", said the Independent Police Complaints Commission in Stockwell 2, the second part of their inquiry into the killing. It said Assistant Commissioner Andy Hayman misled senior officers - including Sir Ian - when he said it was not known if Mr de Menezes was one of the failed July 21 suicide bombers. But he had already told journalists the 27-year-old, shot eight times at Stockwell Tube station in South London, was definitely not a bomber. The IPCC report said: "Mr Hayman chose to mislead the public by his actions. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian left work "almost totally uninformed" and was not told the truth until next day, said the report. It branded Mr Hayman's behaviour tantamount to misconduct. He faces disciplinary action by the Metropolitan Police Authority this year. Last night, Mr de Menezes's family said they believed Mr Hayman - the country's top anti-terror policeman - had lied and should lose his job. They branded the Yard "not fit for purpose". Cousin Alessandro Pereira said: "The police were a shambolic mess and senior officers should be held to account." Another cousin, Patricia Armani da Silva, said police had been allowed to "get away with murder. It is a huge injustice and very shameful. They are treating the life that was taken away by their hands as if it was an animal's." The family believe there are grounds for charges of manslaughter through gross negligence against four senior officers. Mr de Menezes was killed at 10am on July 22 2005 by officers who mistook him for a terrorist - 24 hours after the failed attacks in London. The IPCC said his real identity was suspected by 3pm. By 4.30pm, Mr Hayman had told journalists he was not one of the bombers. But he failed to relay any of those concerns to a meeting of senior officers, including Sir Ian, at 5pm. That led to "inaccurate or misleading information" being circulated by the Yard. The rumours even appear to have been discussed within feet of Sir Ian. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick told the IPCC he heard the "tourist" story from Sir Ian's own staff at about 3:30 pm. Sir Ian walked past but nothing was said - and minutes later he told the media the shooting was "directly" linked to anti-terror operations. The report cleared him of misleading the public but upheld a complaint against Mr Hayman. Sir Ian said later he was sorry for the failings but added: "I did not lie." He denied he had been let down and said officers were under extreme pressure because of the terror threat. But colleagues privately claimed he was "left out of the loop" because some senior officers lost confidence in him. One added: "It is almost beyond belief that ... he says he didn't know there was anything wrong. The whole Yard was buzzing with rumours." Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said she had "full confidence" in Sir Ian and the Metropolitan Police.
Anyone who has "full confidence" in Sir Ian and the Metropolitan Police is a fool. Apparently that also includes Mayor Ken Livingstone.[ 03 August 2007: Message edited by: M. Spector ]
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273
|
posted 01 November 2007 05:26 PM
Suddenly everybody's after Sir Ian Blair to resign, as if they have learned anything new recently about his incompetence and attempted cover-up of the police murder of Mr. Menezes. We didn't need to wait for today's guilty verdict in the case against the Met to know that Blair and his cops were guilty of "catastrophic failings" in the matter. From The Guardian: quote: Sir Ian Blair vowed yesterday [Thursday] to stay on as Britain's top police officer, despite sustained calls for his resignation, after his force was found guilty of "catastrophic" failings that led to the shooting dead of Jean Charles de Menezes.An Old Bailey jury found the Metropolitan police guilty of breaking health and safety law in July 2005 when De Menezes was killed after being mistaken for a suicide bomber. Fining the force £175,000 and ordering it to pay £385,000 in costs, judge Mr Justice Henriques called on the force to learn lessons. He said: "Every single failure here has been disputed. Some of these failings have been simply beyond explanation. There has been no single admission to any one of the alleged 19 failings." .... Within the police service, the Guardian has learned that senior figures argued the force should plead guilty, but Sir Ian decided to fight the case. The unprecedented trial came after prosecutors said no individual officer could be held responsible for the electrician's death, but that the force should be tried for failing to protect the public from risk. .... The furore over the shooting will continue. The Independent Police Complaints Commission is considering the release of a report into the failings within days. A full inquest into the killing will take place next year, and the De Menezes family will also issue civil proceedings. Later this month Sir Ian will face a meeting of his police authority where he will be questioned about the guilty verdict.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885
|
posted 02 November 2007 04:40 AM
quote: He said: "Every single failure here has been disputed. Some of these failings have been simply beyond explanation. There has been no single admission to any one of the alleged 19 failings." ....
Does this mean that people in Britain don't need to go to jail if they refuse to admit their own guilt, even after a judge/jury finds them guilty? That's quite a logical precedent Mr. Blair is invoking. BTW, thanks for bumping this, MSpector. It's largely fallen off the radar in the Canadian News. I suspect these two-year commissions are designed exactly for that purpose (to allow the public to forget such oversteps by authorities). Kudos to the British press for actually reporting on the commission results. [ 02 November 2007: Message edited by: Briguy ]
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|