quote:

---

Alexa McDonough is quitting after seven years as Leader of the New Democratic Party.

A spokesman in Ms. McDonough's office said she will hold a press conference in Ottawa at 10:30 a.m. announcing the decision, setting up a leadership convention in the fall.

---

quote:

---

Start up the pools!

---

check out what I wrote in the other posting!!!

BTW, that little place on Bloor where they serve cold tea for late-night World Cup games was closed Sunday i hear.

Wonder if we can convence them to get the same deal going for peeps in Toronto for the NDP convention.....maybe we'll get some yahoo's spill out on to Bloor wavin' Layton, Blaikie or Nystrom flags after one of these guys wins!

BTW, anyone wanna actually start up a pool!

When I heard about McDonough's resignation the first thing I thought was, "What lousy timing" too.

quote:

---

McDonough quits as NDP leader
Last Updated Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:46:53

OTTAWA - Saying a good leader knows when to step down, Alexa McDonough on Wednesday resigned as the leader of the New Democratic Party after seven years at the helm.

"An important part of leadership is knowing when to pass the torch," she said.

---

Did she just say that?

She said this is a dangerous time for Canadian politics and the NDP has shown great party discipline. There have been caucus colleagues since February talking about her resignation, but no media leaks like the sinking ships of the Liberals and Alliance.

Look for a very looong leadership race. She said she wanted to step down at the July executive meeting in Halifax, but that would have been selfish.

She said that she made the final decision after the "very successful NSNDP leadership race." I guess she had been waiting to free up Nova Scotian New Democrats to participate fully in the Federal leadership race.

And we appreciate that.

Blaikie and Nystrom were at the convention and many Alexanistas were lining up behind Blaikie. Layton has strong support from the pro-democracy, pro-reform wing of the NSNDP.

Because his name suggests he has many qualities that will enable him to be an excellent leader for the NDP

(Ref: http://www.kabalarians.com )
__________________________________________
SVEND:
The name of Svend makes you dynamic, restless, independent, ready to accept challenges, and outspoken. You enjoy change, travel, and new experiences. Reacting against injustice, you go out of your way to assist in creating fairness. You are very creative and promotional, and work intensely to carry out your plans. Though you have limitless enthusiasm for new ventures, you lose interest quickly once things become routine, as you dislike being forced to attend to detail and do monotonous work. Your lack of patience and consistency in your affairs and your tendency to act impulsively can lead to actions you later regret taking, or to accidents, particularly to the head. You find that you often do the hard, pioneering work in an undertaking, only to see others reap the benefits. While this name makes you very honest and sincere in your personal relationships, your tendency to retaliate with caustic remarks over even slight offenses could spoil many friendships. You are prone to suffer moods of depression, and physical and mental tension which could have a serious affect upon the nervous system, causing stomach ulcers. Health weaknesses could also affect the eyes, ears, sinuses, or result in loss of hair.
___________________________________________

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Riffraff ]

No, wait, maybe he's like a broken record that just repeats the same thing over and over.

I've got it - he's like the syndicated rerun of a 60s sitcom, boring and out of date but at least you know what you're going to get.

I'm glad Alexa has finally announced her intentions, although I think she's waited too long. And I would be quite surprised if anybody high-profile besides the 3 identified candidates was to jump into the race.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: MJ ]

Mavericks as leaders become a compromise - a conglomeration holding together other mavericks in the party with competing maverick positions. Mavericks are impotent in leadership - or, atleast, not as potent as they were as MPs. Deep down Svend believes in the right for MPs to be mavericks and deep down he believes in keeping the party together. As a leader he will be a toned down version of himself.

But what of the other leadership hopefuls? How would being a leader change them?
-----
Did anyone catch the did Alexa made against the alliance? The NDP is about contrast. Would Jean Cretien stick around if Martin gets in? I agree with Alexa that the party has to have a solid foundation so that leadership races can be invigorating rather than distructive. If she thought only of herself, Alexa would have stepped down right after the last election and maybe before.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: vaudree ]

quote:

---

Saying a good leader knows when to step down, Alexa McDonough on Wednesday resigned as the leader of the New Democratic Party after seven years at the helm.

---

Did she resign now just to make this silly point with Chretien? Her resignation will be totally eclipsed with all the Liberal hanky-panky going on.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad to see her go. Trouble is she didn't know when to step down a long time ago! As to who should replace her? Who the heck cares? The NDP needs alot more than just a new leader to regain credibility among progressives in this country.

Now that I got that out of the way let me tell you how I see this. It maybe warped but its my honest feeling as soon as I heard the news.

This couldn't of really come at a better time. This is a time when people are reconsidering who they are going to support. There is doubt with the liberals. With her at the helm many people wouldn't even consider the NDP as legit. WIth someone else I believe they will at least get more consideration. The only thing is that a new leader won't be elected for a while yet. Hopefully this leader will be elected in time to take advantage of this reconsideration of support.

If you way this against the news coverage that they might not recieve because of hte liberl fiasco it is kinda of an even steal!!

ideally she should of did it about a year ago or in my opinion quit before she started. But hey who am I?

Peace and love!!

1. Svend Robinson.
I could get enthusiastic about an NDP that had Svend at the helm. I like his politics. But I wonder if he isn't perhaps too politically charged. His recent visit to Israel and the Occupied Territories, whatever one may think of his motivations and his behaviour, leave him vulnerable to allegations of anti-Semitism (I would consider that a smear, myself, but that doesn't mean it won't be tried and wouldn't have an impact on voters). The Get-God-out-of-the-Constitution flap renders him vulnerable to allegations of being a typical elitist leftist intellectual, out of touch with the beliefs and needs of ordinary Canadians. And, of course, I wonder how many Canadians are ready for an openly gay Prime Minister. (Or would that only be an issue in areas where the NDP isn't likely to win seats anyway?)

Advantages: His leadership would dramatically increase the party's profile, and likely lead to increased representation in BC and in major urban centres.

2. Lorne Nystrom
I could also get excited about a Nystrom-led NDP. However, one of his key advantages in a leadership campaign might prove to be a disadvantage in a general election - he's a long-serving New Democrat, with a lot of connections in the party as it currently stands. He therefore risks being viewed as "more of the same" by both centre-left voters and the potential "New Left."

Advantages: Increase in the party fortunes in the West, and electoral reform finally being pushed higher on the national agenda.

3. Jack Layton
If Layton becomes party leader, I think I'd join the NDP the next day. He's an intelligent, deeply committed, compassionate man with a profound interest in social justice. He is, however, sometimes considered a polarizing figure in local politics, so the risks on that level are not unlike those attendant on Svend (albeit less extreme, since Jack has less of a national profile.) I don't know how his French is. Plus, I'm not sure if the rest of Canada would go for a leader from Toronto.

Advantages: Lends strength to the party in Toronto, and possibly in larger cities across Canada (he's been very well regarded in his term as President of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.) Would force urban issues, including homelessness/housing, transportation, infrastructure, and revenue streams for municipalities, onto the national agenda.

4. Bill Blaikie
He's a long-serving NDP MP, and therefore has is well-networked within the caucus and party, and that he's from the West, but other than that I must admit to knowing next to nothing about Blaikie. Since I'm an NDP supporter with an interest in these matters, that could suggest a problem for Blaikie in terms of his national profile, or I could just be ignorant. He may run the same risks as Nystrom in being thought of as part of the "old guard."

Advantages: Well, I don't know enough to say for sure, but he would probably add to electoral chances in the West.

There. That's my $0.08.

Buzz proved today that he is a terrible voice for the left and a terrible person in general. He has no respect for anyone but himself. He is an egotist with few useful things to say besides criticizing others.

P.S Alexa will be an amazing MP.

I am offended on a difficult day for Alexa and the NDP in general that people do not give Alexa the respect that she has rightfully earned over the past 7 years.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Marc ]

quote:

---

Marc: Wow! Not a lot of respect on this board huh? Alexa has spent the last 7 years working as hard for the NDP as she could. Alexa did her job the best way she knew how and she did it pretty well.

---

quote:

---

Though you have limitless enthusiasm for new ventures, you lose interest quickly once things become routine, as you dislike being forced to attend to detail and do monotonous work.

---

If your Svend gets in expect him to become less of a Maverick and more of a moderate. To be leader of the NDP is like having your arms and legs each chained to one of four tractors and the tractor drivers starting their engines. Now Alexa gets to be one of the tractor drivers.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: vaudree ]

I think she was flying today, it was the best press conference I have seen her do in a long time. I don't think this was a difficult day for her. She is still high from the NSNDP convention last weekend and her folks there were urging her to stay on now that the party is gaining momentum in the polls. (I know, but that's what they were saying.)

The liberal goings on will attract attention to internal party matters and knowing that she alluded to the strong internal party discipline shown by her rivals. She stressed that she was not pushed. And critizism of her leadership from Buzz began two minutes before she won the federal leadership, and has since continued unabated.

This will I think be a long leadership race and it needed to start soon for enough money to be raised. Not to mention giving the different camps time to sign up members. Let us hope they take better advantage than the NSNDP did in giving the camps time to grow the party.

The timing is good for the NDP executive, because of the meeting in July. It is bad for the party, however, because of the lack of exposure during the latest round of Liberal in-sniping. It's not likely that Liberal in-sniping will die down anytime soon, though. My personal opinion is that a quick, clean campaign will serve as a polar opposite to the recent CRAP mud-slinging contest and the future liberal "I've been better at hiding my own personal corruption" debacle. Let's just hope that it does end up clean.

Layton I'd give a 44% chance. In fact, he has a hard campaign ahead of him, and has to sign up vast numbers of new or lapsed members. However, he is the only new voice, the only person with the experience of day-to-day working with community groups at the local level, the only person who has some chance of seeing the party take the direction it needs to. Plus, he has a lot of manoeuvering room. If he runs an imaginative campaign, he can win. The significance of the union support is not the votes they deliver but the expertise and resources.

Lorne nonetheless has the biggest base in the membership, and with the new OMOV rules, this is important. If the election were called today, Lorne would win it easily. OTOH he's been around since whenever and there's nothing terribly new or exciting about him, plus he's not the brightest bulb on the block. He doesn't have a lot of room to manoeuvre, and next to no room to grow, as his support base is maxed out and largely already in the party. He has to run a more careful campaign, which by definition will be less than inspiring. Still, he is the front runner and I peg his chances at 55%. He is the man to beat. Other people have estimated his odds at 65%, which may indeed be more realistic. It all depends on how the Layton campaign shapes up.

These odds put together with the help of some fellow Babblers, who shall remain nameless.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]

- I will miss Alexa at the helm. While I supported another candidate in 1995 for the leadership I have been nothing but pleased at the leadership she has offered and as the person most responsible for my becomming a New Democrat 15 years ago I continue to think she's a class act who ends her leadership on a high note (winning a key bi-election, finally starting to inch up the polls, a classy press conference).

- I will be supporting Lorne Nystrom again. His program (wait for it) is very impressive and quite inspiring and he will be saying all the things I have been desperate to hear from a leadership candidate at the federal level. Layton is very appealing and I've always been a fan, but Lorne is far closer to me idealogically. Bill is a great MP but I don't find myself at all inspired by his vision or nis approach to politics.

- Alexa has said she will stay on as MP and will run again. It's not odd at all, and in fact quite common. Tommy Douglas was an MP fpor 11 years after he gave up the leadership. Plus Joe Clark of course and countless provincial examples. Her time as leader has ended but she has much to offer as an MP. I'm trilled she will continue to play a leadership role in Atlantic Canada and that will help us here given that we will have a leader from outside the region.

- The Nova Scotia membership will be all over the map on this. I disagree with Ian in that there were "Dexterites" (no, that doesn't roll off the tongue...) who will be behind all three likely candidates, ditto MacDonellians (I refuse to acknowledge the term "pro-democracy", I can assure you the 63% who voted differently from you are every bit as "pro-democracy" as any of your intimates). I know of people in both camps who will be supporting all three. And so should it be, diveristy is a beautiful thing .

- I think the timing is quite good. It makes us part of the news cycle when politics is foremost on the minds of Canadians and it also helps illustrate how ridiculous these Liberal buffoons really are.

- Tired as I am from the NSNDP race I am looking forward to this one. It should be an exciting time for the party and hopefully it will contribute to the continued groeth in momentum.

Best of luck to all candidates; a little more so to Lorne .

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Charles ]

Liam...you in the Blaikie camp?!? really??

IF Jackie-boy runs I hope you seriously consider moving over to that camp.

R-R said,"Nystrom not the brightest bulb in the pack"...

You in a bad mood today or somethin'!! (J.J.)

Peter Kormos, MPP Niagara Centre -- good looks, charisma+, brilliant, 24Kt NDP-gold
____________________________________________

I personally like the idea and I like Peter Kormos. But God protect visible minorities should some ONDP elements -who might come with Peter- find their way to power. White power ??

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Riffraff ]

Secondly, I think the notion that the NDP shouldn't try to plan things according to its own priorities, but instead only try to find the right moments for action allowed by external events, to be defeatist and incredibly naive to boot. Oh, and really dumb. You don't get anywhere if you can't make a plan and stick to it. Alexa has been planning on this announcement for some time. The Liberal thing just happened over the weekend, and guess what - it's going to be happening for quite some time. Their review is in February, and the media will be following the story until then. When's the right moment? Next week? Next month? Four months from now? Six? Next year? If there is no good moment, do Alexa and thus the NDP just sit on their hands until February. Or do they decide on a course of action and try to carry it out?

quote:

---

York University political science professor James Laxer told globeandmail.com on Wednesday that the recent Liberal party problems and the forthcoming leadership race present the NDP with a golden opportunity to attract new supporters.

"I think the timing of this is very good for the party," Mr. Laxer said. "The current Liberal upheaval has Canadians rethinking where they stand in terms of party loyalty. There is tremendous fluidity right now, and with Alexa stepping aside and a full leadership race starting, the NDP looks like a functioning and properly working party compared to the Liberal leadership misery."

---

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Marc ]

quote:

---

CAW president Buzz Hargrove rejected the idea of either Mr. Nystrom or Mr. Robinson as a possible new leader of the party on CTV Newsnet on Wednesday, saving his praise for Mr. Layton.

"He comes from the left and he's a national figure," Mr. Hargrove said. "...If we're ever going to rebuild our party, we're going to have to have Toronto. That's a clear opportunity for us with a guy like Jack Layton.

"I'm not endorsing Layton today, but at least he's got a new face and new ideas. He comes from a part of the country that we have to build if we're going to in anyway affect change in politics."

---

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Marc ]

I'd knock Nystrom down to even money which would reduce your payout if he wins, and bring Layton down to 2 to 1 right now. Most of the early money would probably go there, counting on him increasing his chances over the campaign - that way you give the early bettors less if he wins, and his campaign goes poorly and you're not attracting enough betting you can always up the odds a bit. And don't neglect the small but lucrative Blaikie niche, either. He's not going to win, so you don't have to worry about the payout, but if you make him an even longer shot you might attract a few more of the suckers.

Did anyone see Buzz's interview with Don Newman in the morning where he stated that he would run if there wasn't a candidate he would support? I took it as Layton being "his candidate", however, Newman took it as " Buzz will run if he dosn't see anyone else stepping up from his pack."

Nystrom looked AWESOME on newsworld this morning and really brought in some leadership energy which is what I was looking for. Sure it is Alexas day, but there are the obvious questions flying around.

If Svend decides to run, look for him to have high profile Jewish support because he will be going up against Izzy Asper's media empire - a Liberal supporter who does not want to see left leaning liberals joining the NDP. Judy Rebick and David Suzuki are almost givens in Svend's corner. I hope he realizes that to be leader he will have to give up a lot of who he is. I hope those of you expecting the world to change the instant he takes his oath will realize that. It was unrealistic expectations which did Bob Rae in.

Jack Layton I have heard little about other than what I have read here today. Lorne Nystrom lacks dinamo. Bill Blaikie (who did the Eulogy for Standley Knowles who did the eulogy for JS Woodsworth) follows the long tradition of United Church ministers in politics - which in Quebec can play as a party of Protestants (or protest-ants if you prefer).

The irony would be a (just) left of centre leader defending a (bit more) left platform or a (bit more) left leader defending a (just) left of centre platform. The new leader will not get to choose the platform he or she must defend.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: vaudree ]

quote:

---

Charles wrote: - The Nova Scotia membership will be all over the map on this. I disagree with Ian in that there were "Dexterites" (no, that doesn't roll off the tongue...) who will be behind all three likely candidates, ditto MacDonellians (I refuse to acknowledge the term "pro-democracy", I can assure you the 63% who voted differently from you are every bit as "pro-democracy" as any of your intimates). I know of people in both camps who will be supporting all three. And so should it be, diveristy is a beautiful thing .

---

Sorry, Charles, leadership races have a way of hanging over for a while. There are no Dexterites, I was (not) being funny. I shouldn't have used pro-democracy, the leadership was won fair and square, and very democratically. I think the NS party has a ways to go before it really is open, fair and really democratic. I will continue to work within the party to see that this is done. And I hope Dexter supporters like yourself and others will agree on the dire need for constitutional and other reforms in the party.

[back on topic]
I only heard Lorne and Bill's name mentioned by Dexter supporters last weekend, Layton name was mostly brought up by MacDonell folks. But in general I agree that the NSNDP will split three, or more, ways. As Jack gets better known he will quickly gain momentum, and support. Let's just make sure that the campaigns will be big enough to rebuild the party and generate excitement.

quote:

---

I find it down right delightful that there is no boogeyman candidate to be afraid of, and instead of having to vote against someone I can simply happily vote in favour of someone, with no sense of the sky falling if another candidate wins.

---

quote:

---

Liam...you in the Blaikie camp?!? really??

IF Jackie-boy runs I hope you seriously consider moving over to that camp

---

Well, they ARE rough odds, subject to change at my discretion.

Since Nystrom is the favorite, giving 1 to 1 or 1.5 to 1 on him is pretty much a given. The dark horses, of course, are Svend and Bill - and Layton is in the middle of the pack at between 2 and 3 to 1.

[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: Albert R. Calleros ]

What is NDProgress?!

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: agent007 ]

I like Layton's odds more if the spending limits are high. I would also like to see a leader who can effectively raise money so that we could form government and achieve real election finance reform.

Charles: If you're supporting Jack on the second ballot, then I'll trade you support for Mr. Nystrom if Jack bows out. BTW, what would a day be like with no leadership race?
[edited to add]
Wing 1NDProgress
Wing 2NPI
insert wingnut jokes as needed.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: IM ]

And yes, I would happily make that trade. Regardless, Layton is my second choice and would remain so no matter what unless Yvon Godin got in but I believe he will be supporting Nystrom so it should be a non-starter. I just look forward to seeing Jack get onto the national stage where he belongs. People outside of Toronto, where I met him when I lived there, need to see what this guy has to offer/say.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: MJ ]

Much of his base is moving towards Layton. Hargrove was on CTV Newsnet today dismissing Svend or Blaikie as possible candidates and praising Layton to the skies. With the CAW presumably backing Layton, Svend loses his union support which he needs if he wants to be able to compete with Nystrom's base in the Sasktachewan (which has as many NDP members as Ontario) and Blaikie's support in Manitoba and among the NDP establishment. Many social progressives will be as or more inclined to support Layton over Robinson (particularly activists on urban / inner city issues). Robinson doesn't even have the gay/lesbian vote tied up as Layton's popularity with Toronto's gay and lesbian community will cut into Svend's support.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mycroft ]

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mycroft ]

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mycroft ]

quote:

---

When did the NPI become a "wing" of the NDP? As if the NDP doesn't have enough problems!

---

I thought her comment about leadership was excellent. She certainly made the point well, subtly pointing to Chretien. (and well possibly others who have stayed on too long).

It may have looked like bad timing but I do not think so. The NDP pushed the Liberals aside for the day and time will tell how it all plays out.

Those of you who wanted her to resgin, be gracious for at least one day will you?

quote:

---

Some of us would have said "as if the NPI doesn't have enough problems!"

---

HAHAHA! Mycroft, I love you! But seriously, painting the NDProgress and the NPI as "wings" of the NDP is really very simplistic, and downright wrong. The NDProgress and NPI overlapped in several instances when it came to voting in the November convention, and I wouldn't go so far as to call NDProgress a "camp". Also, the NPI is independent of the NDP. Neither of these groups can be called a "wing" for these reasons. Also, once again, there is a lot of agreement between the two, so it would be really silly if they were ever to become "wings".

Out of the three main candidates running, I'll be supporting Layton, I think. It'll be very interesting to see if anyone else would jump in the race, and if so, my choice may change.

I don't know much about Jack Layton, other than that he is respected in Toronto as a city councillor and seems to be well liked by most people here on the board.

Blaikie may be a good choice for leader in that he is a long standing member of the NDP and is relatively uncontroversial. His Christian beliefs could always be seen as a bridge to Canadians who feel the NDP nothing but a bunch of lefty atheists. But he has always seemed a voice of reason.

I like Svend but I think he's too divisive a character for Canadians to rally behind.

Nystrom at the moment is likely to be the next leader for many of the reasons already alluded to earlier on Babble.

Does anyone know anything about Yvon Godin? He's a francophone NDP MP from New Brunswick and his name has been mentioned a few times. He may be able to help the NDP in Quebec and he may be encouraged to run just to raise the profile of the party among francophones.

One name I haven't heard mentioned, suprisingly, is Peter Stoffer. Did his temper tantrum at the Winnipeg convention sink his chances?

I was looking at the Globe website, and took a gander at their poll. And whadya know, Svend Robinson is leading, with Jack Layton in second, "Other" third, Nystrom fourth, and Blaikie fifth. So far, at least. Very interesting. Sure, some may argue that perhaps it's a bunch of Liberal/PC partisans voting for Svend, because they think it'll make their parties look better. But something I've noticed in my personal experiences with non-NDP members, and those who aren't very politically involved is that Svend has an astoundingly larger public appeal than those in the party with personal vendetta's against him would like to admit, or recognize.

Anyway, check it out at the Globe and Mail website and be sure to cast your vote!

And here's the article Marc made reference to.

Oh, and just to clarify (I'm not sure if I mentioned it already or not, I'm too lazy to check ) but I think the timing was pretty good. I really didn't mind having Alexa as leader- she was pretty good. Not outstanding, but she brought the party back to official party status, and helped launch the renewal, and continued with it. It's not the most open of procedure's, but it could have been much worse, I believe, and I think some credit is due to her for at least consulting with others, instead of trying to steer the party in any particular direction after the 2000 election. The timing is good for the reasons Liam outlined, I believe. The media won't be picking her legacy to shreds, but they will pay more attention when the actual race comes around.

One thing that really bugs me about the media though, is there total inability to understand the complexities of NDP politics. It seems as though they try and make everything look like a conflict between the left and right (or left and centre, in this case) when it really isn't. It's far more complicated than that. Plus they try and paint the NPI as just an initiative to "swing the party left"- bull fucking shit! Maybe it's the CBC reporters who should be taking mandatory literacy tests and not me. If they actually took the time to read about the NPI, and the NDProgress, and all the stuff that was laid out last november (providing they're literate), perhaps they would have been able to noticed some of the complexities involved with last november's convention, instead of trying to jam the whole event into their two-dimensional, black&white perspective. Sorry folks- maybe that's the way the PC's and the Liberals work, but - surprise! - it ain't how every party works.

quote:

---

When did the NPI become a "wing" of the NDP? As if the NDP doesn't have enough problems!

What is NDProgress?!

---

Good point 007, the NPI should be focussed on building a left wing movement in Canada, as opposed to losing elections to the right.

Oh, and if anyone was missing it, here's the NP's propaganda piece. Buzz is starting to irritate me. There's something to be said for not accepting every single interview you're offered...

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: meades ]

quote:

---

I could get enthusiastic about an NDP that had Svend at the helm. I like his politics. But I wonder if he isn't perhaps too politically charged. His recent visit to Israel and the Occupied Territories, whatever one may think of his motivations and his behaviour, leave him vulnerable to allegations of anti-Semitism (I would consider that a smear, myself, but that doesn't mean it won't be tried and wouldn't have an impact on voters).

---

Svend would be the worst thing that could ever happened to the NDP, he is far to radical and far to gay for the mainstream.

The Left, as much as you would doubt otherwise from reading most of the radicalism here, is not so.

The NDP would be wiped off the Rand McNally if he were leader.

quote:

---

Svend would be the worst thing that could ever happened to the NDP, he is far to radical and far to gay for the mainstream.

---

quote:

---

York University political science professor James Laxer told globeandmail.com on Wednesday that the recent Liberal party problems and the forthcoming leadership race present the NDP with a golden opportunity to attract new supporters.
"I think the timing of this is very good for the party," Mr. Laxer said. "The current Liberal upheaval has Canadians rethinking where they stand in terms of party loyalty. There is tremendous fluidity right now, and with Alexa stepping aside and a full leadership race starting, the NDP looks like a functioning and properly working party compared to the Liberal leadership misery."

---

quote:

---

I am curious about your support for Koromos, is stand against the occupation o Palestine is diameterically opposed to yours.

---

code:

---

[SUB]This sick bastard doesn't miss a chance to turn a topic into one about Palestine.[/SUB]

---

Our new leader must speak of the economy as Lewis and Broadbent did so well. S/He must speak to all canadians, not just english Canada. S/He must be able to reestablish our roots in the prairies, while holding on to gains in the east.

S/He must speak to people of Northern Ontario, and must show leadership.

Blaikie... hahahahahahahashahahahahahaha... I think not. He scares the hell out of me in person.

Layton... I don't know him much, but he's not experienced for the rough and tumble federal political scene... look what happened to Stockwell.

Hargrove... hahahahahahahahahahaha... death to the NDP!

I like Svend but I think he's too divisive a character for Canadians to rally behind
___________________________________________

quote:

---

Perhaps a frank divisiveness is preferable to a hypocritical cohesion. The former reminds of the need for cohesion, the latter gives the illusion that cohesion exists

---

Puhhh leasseeee do you know who you are dealing with? The cdn public are ignorant souls who need to be lied to!!!

I personally would love a person to be upfront and in your face and tell the truth of what really goes on but it will never happen.

I have little faith in the cdn public anymore to believe that they would have the insight to handle properly what would be said. They would take the leader as a fool!

Isn't that ironic!!

People love thier false sense of security and an attack on that would be a personal attack on them!

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: beproud2 ]

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Marc ]

That leaves Jack, whose biggest problem is that he is a Torontonian. And everyone whose area code is not 416 seems to have an aversion to Toronto. Maybe he could move to Windsor or Oshawa where Buzz will certainly get him elected.

Lorne and Bill are boring.

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: kropotkin1951 ]

quote:

---

Jack could run right where he is in Trinity Spadina. Dan Heap had that riding for a while, and Jack came close in his last run at it. Being leader might be enough to put him over the top.

---

True, and you're right about his chances. But that would mean Layton would have to wait until a byelection, or even the next general election, to seek a seat in the Commons - leaving the NDP without their leader in the House, possibly for several years.

That's a serious problem, and one I hadn't considered.

quote:

---

IF a NDP candidate steps down from their seat isn't it the case that the Liberals and the Tories won't run a candidate ala Harper?

---

quote:

---

The ALLIANCE in downtown Toronto?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

---

Yabbut, we weren't talking about Trinity-Spadina, necessarily. We were talking about an NDP MP resigning, but the NDP doesn't have any members in downtown Toronto. Or in Toronto at all.

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: 'lance ]

Whoever said NOBODY cares is damn right. Who gives two shits!?! That is like saying someone is too brown to be attractive to mainstream Canada. Blech... Then you can also be too womanlike.

There are criticisms on all sides. As a staunch Nystrom supporter ( as if everyone that has seen me on babble dosn't know), I hear criticism on Nystrom that he is too Pale, Male Stale.

For fun : what does everyoen think are the most REDICULOUS criticims of the potential candidates so far?

Here are mine.

Bill Blaikie : Has a beard and thus looks too "wild"

Jack Layton: hah I haven't heard anything dumb, all the criticisms seem fair enough to me.

Joe Comartin: Too old. (? how old is he anyway?)

Lorne Nystrom: Has permed hair and needs a new look. Too pale male stale as I said earlier. Is a third wayer. (bwahahah!!)

quote:

---

Yabbut

---

Also, we're two years into the liberal mandate, the Liberals are in a bit of a crisis, and the NDP leadership selection might not be until next spring- perhaps we're not quite as far off from an election as we think. Though unless there are a few more big developments, my guess would be we've still got a year and a half, to two years.

(Yes, surprise, surprise, it is not outside the bounds of probability to imagine that there may be homophobic leftists.)

The debating point here is this:

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Victor Von MediaBoy ]

If we were to point at places where homophobic, or racist or lack of gender parity new democrats or leftists exits, I would look to Saskatchewan!

Not to say that the Saskatchewan young new democrats are racist or homophobes, but they dont even have gender parity in their executive!

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Sine Ziegler ]

quote:

---

Which NDP MP would even think of giving up their seat for Layton? I can only think of two: Svend Robinson and Libby Davies. I think it is highly unlikely that Svend would give up the seat that he has held for so long. So that leaves Libby Davies who only won her seat by 9% and mainly on personal appeal and constituency work. Throw Layton in there and there is a strong chance he would lose.

---

This is the funniest thing I have read in ages. The voters in Burnaby Douglas vote for Svend not the NDP. He wins despite the party. He wins because he has possibly the best riding staff in the country and has always done a superb job of consituency work. The Alliance might beat Jack in Burnaby-Douglas just because he is a candidate from Toronto.

quote:

---

1995 Ms. McLaughlin replaced by Alexa McDonough, a wealthy social worker and previously leader of the provincial NDP in Nova Scotia.

1997 Ms. McLaughlin replaced by Alexa McDonough, a wealthy social worker and previously leader of the provincial NDP in Nova Scotia.

---

quote:

---

I don't know much about Jack Layton, other than that he is respected in Toronto as a city councillor and seems to be well liked by most people here on the board.

---

quote:

---

Puhhh leasseeee do you know who you are dealing with? The cdn public are ignorant souls who need to be lied to!!!

---

quote:

---

Anyway, check it out at the Globe and Mail website and be sure to cast your vote!

---

Meades, I couldn't find an NDP poll on the G&M, however I found the following poll:

Who would you like to see as leader of the Liberal Party?
Jean Chrétien: 5511
Sheila Copps: 11781
John Manley: 514
Paul Martin: 9248
Allan Rock: 1207
Brian Tobin: 658
Other: 685

It is sad to see Alexa go after seven years of trying her best to make the NDP relevant in Canadian political circles. Unfortunetly with the electoral system we have, she was marginalized and was never really given the chance.

With that said, I also see many of you automatically discrediting Svend. First off, in the past election (2000) there wasn't a single MP other than Svend that could have retained the Burnaby-Douglas riding given the extreme lengths that the local media went to to discredit the NDP and the Liberal Party. Furthermore, there is no Mp that is more hardworking (or willing to risk his reputation for a good cause) than Svend Robinson. & believe it or not, Canadians give a damn about those principles. Especially here out west. Stockwell Day was clearly a "right wing loonie toon" but he was immensely popular in western Canada and managed to attracted +/- 25% of the national vote. Honestly, since the Audrey Mclaughlin days and right up until now, the NDP has never been so low, so unpopular. Having Svend in the leadership helm will increase the NDP's fortunes by default, if only because he can provoke Canadians, coast to coast. He will bring new ideas and fresh faces to the party, to the political system as a whole. Believe it or not, other than Jack Layton, Svend Robinson is the only candidate that has truly national appeal. Svend is fluently trilingual and supports increased self-determination for Quebec.