This one quoted line seems to show what a pile of absolute GARBAGE the entire article (and the sentiment behind it) seems to be...

Isn't this the "Irrational News and Politics" Forum?

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: Atavist ]

Racist masterbating leftists! Moloch! Solitude! Filth! Ugliness! Ashcans and unobtainable dollars! Children screaming under the stairways! Boys sobbing in armies! Old men weeping in the parks!

Of course, there'd be some cleaning up to do.

[ 01 June 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Neither 'Petsy' or 'Ohara' are in any way concerned with greater equality or justice, let alone resolving real life problems, they're mostly here to take up where 'Maccabee' left off.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Do you even know who Mac was?

---

Even on Babble we dont exclude an entire group of people based on National origin or faith. Hell if the British union here thinks Israeli academics should be boycotted based on Israel's colonialist aims what does it say of its own country which invaded Iraq for purposes that had not a whit to do with self defence?

Secondly the article appeared in a reputable left of centre newspaper, Ha'aretz, certainly credible even here on Babble.

Thirdly speak of hypocracy, was it not our very own mod Michelle that accused me of singling out and attacking max Bialystok's credibility when he asked about Farber being a Tory? Did she not admonish me for picking on Max? Yet it seems OK to pick on poor Petsy because you dont like what he says. Look in the mirror folks and take a breath. You may not like what you see.

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: ohara ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
First of all folks the article while a bit over the top strikes at the heart of an issue that many here fail to grasp; the boycott call does have tinges of elitism, hypocracy and yes maybe even racism.

---

http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=6517

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: Lord Palmerston ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
Meanwhile UofT's faculty of social work formed a relationship with Haifa university. It was spearheaded by Ernie Lightman, who I believe is an NDPer.

http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=6517

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: Lord Palmerston ]

---

Haifa University is one of the most diverse in Israel. When my duaghter studied there it was clear that Israeli Arabs and Palestinians were part of the student body. There were exchange programs and many of the academics have spoken out strongly against the occupation.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
Shame to those who wear blinders here. Only the extreme fringes support this boycott. It is targeting academics because they are Israelis. The NDP and any other credible leftists entity will reject it outright

---

Actually knee jerk support for Israel, right or wrong, is only a consensus among a diminishing minority of liberal-conservative elites. One day these boycotts will become more widespread and meaningful, automatic Security Council veto or not. Now, if you have no ability to even address what the other guy writes you might as well give it up yourself.

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]

quote:

---

South Africa's largest trade union federation will launch a campaign
against "the Israeli occupation of Arab lands" this week, demanding that
Pretoria impose a boycott on all Israeli goods and break diplomatic
relations. South African Intelligence Minister Ronnie Kasrils, who is
Jewish, told Haaretz that he actively supported the initiative - which
contradicts the policy of his own cabinet.

The president of the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU), Willy Madisha, announced the launching of the campaign last week in Johannesburg, calling on the government to cease all diplomatic relations with Israel after its attacks on Palestinian leaders.

"The best way to have Israel comply with United Nations resolutions is to
pressure it by a diplomatic boycott such as the one imposed on apartheid
South Africa," Madisha said.

---

COSATU takes steps to add their gigantic moral weight to a boycott of Israel.

That ought to, but likely won't, give pause to those who've been going on about how unlike apartheid South Africa present-day Israel is and that, therefore, a boycott is entirely misplaced, unfair, racist, etc.. It seems that those who would know, perhaps better than anyone, don't agree with such "reasoning".

Kudos to COSATU and I hope brother Sid Ryan sends Willy Mashida a letter and tells him so. In so doing, the CUPE leader will be simply returning the salute that brother Mashida sent in this direction not so long ago. For was it not COSATU itself, in the darkest hours of the merciless South African apartheid regime, that fought back with the slogan of "An Injury to One is an Injury to All" and held aloft the banner of international solidarity high for all to see? Why shouldn't COSATU turn the tide again? Long live the world working class and its heroic South African detachment, and long live its most noble, most sacred and indestructable principle of genuine internationalism and solidarity.

[ 31 May 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Zionism was supposed to be a progressive liberation movement, not just a fight to hold a chunk of land for the sake of holding a chunk of land.

And the worst part is, the most objectionable aspects of Israeli policies are just those things that are actually putting Israelis in the greatest danger. The prudent step for security would be to give the hardline a rest, since it clearly is only making things worse.

[ 01 June 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

quote:

---

Petsy: BTW when will we be boycotting China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, for a whole list of univeral wrongs? Just asking.

---

Sure you are. Why don't you save us all some time and tell us about the request from Chinese or Tibetan trade unions for a boycott of China? Perhaps you know about a public statement of a Saudi workers' organization? What do the underground Korean groups have to say? That would be a help, eh?

Assuming that you didn't know ... the boycott has been called for by the Palestinian Trade Union central bodies, for some time now, among other organizations of Palestinian civil society, just as the ANC, COSATU and the SACP called for the boycott and sanctions against South Africa in the past.

quote:

---

BTW when will we be boycotting China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, for a whole list of univeral wrongs? Just asking.

---

Sounds good to me. Let me know when you set that up.

Actually, isn't NK under an embargo? Kinda hard to boycott someone who isn't part of the global economy.

edited to add:

quote:

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Its based on National origin and is racist in intent.

---

I wasn't aware that nations and races were the same thing. That sounds a bit... um, racist.

[ 01 June 2007: Message edited by: Jacob Two-Two ]

An interesting read for those who can pry their blinders off:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michelle:
But everyone likes masturbating!

They say that 99% of people masturbate, and 1% lie.

---

quote:

---

I am continually amazed at the utter hypocracy of some who cling to this idea of boycotting Israel. Excuses abound for not boycotting other nations whose Human Rights records make Israel look like the Dali Lahma. But hey single-focus on Israel..."all Israel all the time"...never mind that China routinely jails anyone who is critical of the regime....never mind that Gays and Lesbians are routinely discriminated against in virtually every country in the Middle east other than Israel....never mind that women are scorned and debased in many countries in the Middle East other than Israel..."all Israel all the time", that's it baby.

---

So the left should support the losing liberals in Israel, rather than recognise the overwhelming dominance of the right in Israeli politics?

Is this a contest? If the left can out-support the right (outfund Bush and the Zionist diaspora perhaps), we'll somehow win the loyalties of the religious right?

Give your head a shake.

[ 02 June 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coyote:
I'm not certain that a boycott is a good idea - I've stated that and my reasons for uncertainty on the matter in a previous thread. I am certain, however, that those who choose to deflect all criticism of Israel are not honest brokers in this conversation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slumberjack:

There's merits to a boycott, in conjunction with political and academic shunning around the world. Pressure from many corners similar to what was applied in South Africa. I believe with certainty as well that posters have registered here for the sole purpose confronting, invalidating, and gainsaying any criticism of Israeli occupation policies.

---

quote:

---

Excuses abound for not boycotting other nations whose Human Rights records make Israel look like the Dali Lahma. But hey single-focus on Israel..."all Israel all the time"...never mind that China routinely jails anyone who is critical of the regime....never mind that Gays and Lesbians are routinely discriminated against in virtually every country in the Middle east other than Israel....never mind that women are scorned and debased in many countries in the Middle East other than Israel..."all Israel all the time", that's it baby.

---

I frequently see posters here advocate for a total cessation of trade with China. The same measures for various middle eastern countries are usually brought up with each new story of the rampant homophobia and misogyny in those societies. Eliminating our oil dependency is an even more common topic, which amounts to a boycott of most middle eastern countries. My experience with you, ohara, is that you constantly rail against positions nobody has taken, loudly denouncing opponents that only exist in your imagination.

quote:

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BTW the reason you will never see political and academic shunning around the world is simply because most civlized governments do not accept the trope that Israel is always at fault.

---

Certainly they don't, but that's a far cry from the position you seem to have, which is that Israel is never at fault. But maybe I've got you all wrong. Given the general truism that all governments do horrible things, maybe you could tell us some of the horrible things you have perceived the government of Israel to be responsible for.

Sure jacob 2-2 easy to attack with hollow non researched words and of course you write it so your natural allies all shake their heads in agreement. This besides the fact that Michelle has admonished me on occassions where I have targeted specific Babblers which Im told is against the rules. Seems its only against the rules for people like me (and perhaps Jeff House when he is critical of Max B). You seem to get away with it. And that's my rant for today

[ 02 June 2007: Message edited by: ohara ]

quote:

---

I need not defend myself to you.

---

Boycotts, after all, are typically a response to a desperate situation, when calls for civilized behaviour fall on deaf ears, and so on, and peaceful protest is blocked or met with a bulldozer over a body, a cluster bomb, collective punishment, the arrest of Parliamentarians, or a hail of bullets. This is all question-begging anyway, by Israeli apologists here, as the Israeli boycott is a response to a call from Palestinian organizations and has merit independently of any other call for a boycott anywhere else.

Then I gave my head a shake. It's more important to enumerate the facts and keep the faith. It's unprejudiced people that need convincing.

[ 02 June 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Petsy, ohara, you say there SHOULDN'T be a boycott.

What alternative course of action would you suggest for those who feel that the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinian people is the root of the problem, and who have also come to the conclusion(with good reason)that the Israeli government and the majority of the Israeli electorate have permanently abandoned humane values and will not return to them without international pressure?

Or are you saying that if we aren't boycotting every bad government on the planet(and, btw, many of us have spent years advocating sanctions on China for its move towards market Stalinism after 1989, and against Saudi Arabia for its refusal to live in even the 19th century, let alone the 20th, while the rest of the world lives in the 21st, and so on)we are then obligated to let the Israeli government off the hook?

You have the right to say and do whatever you want, but why do we NEVER hear you join us in calling for changes in Israeli government policy?

Why do you, at least here on Babble, seem to automatically defend everything the Israeli regime claims it has to do, or deflect any criticism by raising the issues of what is going on in other countries?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken Burch:
What alternative course of action would you suggest for those who feel that the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinian people is the root of the problem, and who have also come to the conclusion(with good reason)that the Israeli government and the majority of the Israeli electorate have permanently abandoned humane values and will not return to them without international pressure?

---

quote:

---

Assuming that you didn't know ... the boycott has been called for by the Palestinian Trade Union central bodies, for some time now, among other organizations of Palestinian civil society, just as the ANC, COSATU and the SACP called for the boycott and sanctions against South Africa in the past.

---

Well, I certainly have no problem supporting a boycott against Israel--if any major legitimate Israeli or Palestinian labour/social justice/ public interest organizations are requesting this in order to pressure the government or corporate ruling elites to change things.

However, I don't fully understand how boycotting academics is supposed to help the situation--especially if they are openly supportive of the issues in question.

I remember actively promoting the international boycott against the South African apartheid regime after the above-mentioned labour SA labour organizations requested it as a pressure tactic on the government.

But that involved encouraging people not to buy South African-made goods, avoid doing business with corporations doing major business in that country, not taking vacations there, ensuring pensions and other savings or investments were not in South Africa or in corporations doing business there, or in SA bonds, etc.

Boycotting academics was never part of it. In fact, supportive organizations, while supporting the boycott, were also helping or calling for justice for many SA academics being persecuted for criticizing the government.

In order for any boycott to even remotely be effective it needs to have two things going for it:

First, it needs to originate from and have some degree of support from progressive forces within the country in question.

Second, it needs to hit the economy square in the pocket book--where it hurts.

For example, if the Israeli economy is traditionally to a degree dependent on substantial European tourism, and tourism revenue starts to drop and fewer people go there after the boycott is called, that makes a whole lot more of an impact than simply saying a few hundred, or maybe a couple thousand, Israeli professors or academics can't work in Europe.

[ 02 June 2007: Message edited by: Steppenwolf Allende ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Assuming that you didn't know ... the boycott has been called for by the Palestinian Trade Union central bodies, for some time now, among other organizations of Palestinian civil society, just as the ANC, COSATU and the SACP called for the boycott and sanctions against South Africa in the past.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petsy:
Well Max progressive leftists like Benjamin Pogrund differ with other South Africans.

---

Pogrund doesn't like what he calls "malevolent forces, anti-Semites, and semi-Jews".

Any idea who the "semi-Jews" are?

My children, perhaps, who have one Jewish parent?

Or self-hating Jews like me?

Very intriguing terminology, no?

quote:

---

He was very good at shedding light on the sins of others.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

Pogrund doesn't like what he calls "malevolent forces, anti-Semites, and semi-Jews".

Any idea who the "semi-Jews" are?

My children, perhaps, who have one Jewish parent?

Or self-hating Jews like me?

Very intriguing terminology, no?

I think Pogrund made significant contributions to the struggle against apartheid in South Africa. He was very good at shedding light on the sins of others.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:

Then as Petsy suggests a voice of some reason on this isue.

---

quote:

---

Pogrund doesn't like what he calls "malevolent forces, anti-Semites, and semi-Jews".

Any idea who the "semi-Jews" are?

My children, perhaps, who have one Jewish parent?

Or self-hating Jews like me?

Very intriguing terminology, no?

---

Another question of course is why you would be "self-hating." You don't seem self-hating. I don't know you at all, but just from here, I don't see why you need to be "self-hating.

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

You're not troubled by his "semi-Jew" comment?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ohara:

..a dissident in Israel who speaks out courageously on Israeli policy he feels is excessive or wrong, who with quiet dignity shreds to pieces those who vomit the apartheid label on Israel.

---

I take note of your expertise in propaganda rhetoric crafting.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michelle:
Heh. Suddenly it's all about "context". If any of your opponents here - or heck, even anyone in the public eye who opposes Israel - used such a phrase, you wouldn't give a shit what the "context" was.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bohajal:

I take note of your expertise in propaganda rhetoric crafting.

Regarding Israeli policies, you use "excessive and wrong" (much milder than "oppressive and discriminatory") but when talking about the "apartheid label", you apparently deemed that an emphasis must be excerted with stronger, more descriptive vocabulary, "shredded" and "vomit".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petsy:
You maybe right about ohara, nonetheless Mr. pogrund seems to have hit the nail on the proverbial head when it comes to smashing the israel apartheid myth. The fact that many are intent on haranging ohara is proof of that.

---

quote:

---

Despite ... important differences between the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and South African apartheid, the past decade has brought them closer together. By institutionalising the societal separation and territorial integration that Israel created between 1967 and 1993, the Oslo process has prepared for the bantustanisation of the WBGS, transforming the Palestinian territories into fragmented population reserves, neither sustainable economically nor sovereign politically.

---

I think that written rebuttal was more disingenuous in what it failed to say than what it did, and how it reframed the issue again around some supposed "extremists" who are apparently more danger than the extremist "settlers" funded by the State of Israel. Not that unlike the Uber Zionists he supposedly criticises regularly do. "Oh but of Course we have Racists (...who doesn't?) too..."

Attacking the racist attitudes and systems within the present state of Israel doesn't negate its right to exist as a nation, but rather allows the possibly of a more secure future for everyone. Until there's more sincere critics within their own communities than the afore-mentioned author, then others will have to keep speaking up for the main victims there.

ETA: I did like the admission of "mistakes" after reciting all the "malevelant" forces threatening their very existence.

[ 06 June 2007: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
You're not troubled by his "semi-Jew" comment?

Originally posted by ohara:
I have no idea under what context he made such a statement.

---

That's fascinating. So you didn't even bother to read the article before praising it. Let me cite the "context" which in the article which you pretended to read:

quote:

---

It [Israel] has been under continual attack since the start and is still beset by enemies sworn to its destruction, whether Islamic Jihad and Hamas through suicide bombings, the Arab states through their refusal to recognise its existence, the recent "wipe-out" call by Iran's president, or the actions and declarations of a mixed bag of malevolent forces, anti-semites and semi-Jews. That induces a siege mentality among Israel's Jews. They fight to live and do not always do it pleasantly. They make horrible mistakes and inflict suffering on others.

---

If that's not enough context, maybe you can go back and actually read the article you've been praising.

quote:

---

Or a better question - under what conditions, or in what correct context could calling someone a "semi-Jew" be okay?

---

quote:

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He personally circumcises the semi-Jew, Timothy; and he performs his vows in the temple.

---

Acts of the Apostles

Timothy's mother was of the Jewish faith. The apostle Paul circumcised Timothy, so that he might be accepted by the Jews.

[ 07 June 2007: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by CUPE_Reformer:
The apostle Paul circumcised Timothy, so that he might be accepted by the Jews.

---

And to protect him from HIV/AIDS no doubt:

Mass circumcision to fight AIDS in South Africa

Early Christians - bringing you tomorrow's discoveries yesterday.

Which brings us back to the thread title. Masturbation is not only moral, it's good for public health. Thanks for the reminder, Petsy.

[ 07 June 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jingles:
Why are religions so obsessed with the foreskin?

"Hey fellers, I got a new religion for us all"
"Cool. What's it about?"
"Okay. But there are some rules. No more bacon. Or jerking off."
"Huh?'
"And no more drinking"
"You're kidding, right?"
"Oh, and if you all line up over here, I'll cut the ends off your dick. God told me to."
"That's it. See ya later, dumbass."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jingles:
No more bacon. Or jerking off.

---

Yeah, but we can eat beef jerky! So we're laughin'!

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

Yeah, but we can eat beef jerky!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Phonz:
The only thing I ever bought from there was Dead Sea salts (as a remedy for psoriasis) and they totally sucked.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Phonz:
On a practical note, how would I go about boycotting Israel? The only thing I ever bought from there was Dead Sea salts (as a remedy for psoriasis) and they totally sucked. BTW (and please excuse the thread drift), diaper rash ointment fixes this (psoriasis) up in no time.

---

Check all your medications. Make sure that you do not have tablets, drops, lotions, etc., made by Abic or Teva.These are amongst the world's best medications for colds and influenza.

An Israeli company has developed a simple blood test that distinguishes between mild and more severe cases of Multiple Sclerosis. So, please boycott this Israeli patent.

An Israeli-made device helps restore the use of paralyzed hands. This device electrically stimulates the hand muscles, providing hope to millions of stroke sufferers and victims of spinal injuries. This too should be boycotted.

Young children with breathing problems will soon be sleeping more soundly, thanks to a new Israeli device called the Child Hood. This innovation replaces the inhalation mask with an improved drug delivery system that provides relief for child and parent. My nephew suffers terribly from asthma, however I guess my sister will have to add this to the list.

A new research center in Israel hopes to throw light on brain disorders such as depression and Alzheimer's disease. The Joseph Sangol Neuroscience Center in the Sheba Medical Center at Tel HaShomer Hospital aims to bring thousands of scientists and doctors to focus on brain research. However given the demand for an academic boycott this too would have to be avoided.

A researcher at Israel's Ben Gurion University has succeeded in creating human monoclonal antibodies which can neutralize the highly contagious smallpox virus without inducing the dangerous side effects of the existing vaccine. Still under study and if it reaches fruition the world ought not use it either.

Two Israelis received the 2004 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Doctors Ciechanover and Hershko's research and discovery of one of the human cells most important cyclical processes will lead the way to DNA repair, control of newly produced proteins, and immune defense systems. Is this type of work under the boycott as well?

The Movement Disorder Surgery program at Israel's Hadassah Medical Center has successfully eliminated the physical manifestations of Parkinson's disease in a select group of patients with a deep brain stimulation technique. Must Parkinsons sufferers also boycott this potential method that can ease their suffering?

For women who undergo hysterectomies each year for uterine fibroids, the development in Israel of the ExAblate 2000 System offers a non-invasive alternative to surgery. But this too would be on the list.

Israel is developing a nose drop that will provide a five year flu vaccine and if developed another no-no.

Most of Windows operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. Time I guess for us all to move to Apple.

The Pentium NMX Chip technology was designed at Intel in Israel. Both the Pentium 4 microprocessor and the Centrium processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 in Israel by four young Israeli whiz kids. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R.& D. facilities outside the US in Israel.

Cell phone technology was also developed in Israel by Motorola, which has its biggest development center in Israel. Most of the latest technology in your mobile phone was developed by Israeli scientists.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
Windows an Israeli production? That's something I'd never claim if I were you. Talk about promoting anti-semitism!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
Wow. I've never seen such a display of easily disprovable claims made here before, ohara. Shall we go through them one-by-one, or will just one example be enough?

At least half of your list is absolutely ridiculous. Windows an Israeli production? That's something I'd never claim if I were you. Talk about promoting anti-semitism!

---

quote:

---

An Israeli company has developed a simple blood test that distinguishes between mild and more severe cases of Multiple Sclerosis. So, please boycott this Israeli patent.

---

quote:

---

An Israeli-made device helps restore the use of paralyzed hands. This device electrically stimulates the hand muscles, providing hope to millions of stroke sufferers and victims of spinal injuries. This too should be boycotted.

---

quote:

---

Young children with breathing problems will soon be sleeping more soundly, thanks to a new Israeli device called the Child Hood. This innovation replaces the inhalation mask with an improved drug delivery system that provides relief for child and parent. My nephew suffers terribly from asthma, however I guess my sister will have to add this to the list.

---

quote:

---

A new research center in Israel hopes to throw light on brain disorders such as depression and Alzheimer's disease. The Joseph Sangol Neuroscience Center in the Sheba Medical Center at Tel HaShomer Hospital aims to bring thousands of scientists and doctors to focus on brain research. However given the demand for an academic boycott this too would have to be avoided.

---

quote:

---

A researcher at Israel's Ben Gurion University has succeeded in creating human monoclonal antibodies which can neutralize the highly contagious smallpox virus without inducing the dangerous side effects of the existing vaccine. Still under study and if it reaches fruition the world ought not use it either.

---

quote:

---

Two Israelis received the 2004 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Doctors Ciechanover and Hershko's research and discovery of one of the human cells most important cyclical processes will lead the way to DNA repair, control of newly produced proteins, and immune defense systems. Is this type of work under the boycott as well?

---

And here's another of your fantasy products and procedures....

quote:

---

The Movement Disorder Surgery program at Israel's Hadassah Medical Center has successfully eliminated the physical manifestations of Parkinson's disease in a select group of patients with a deep brain stimulation technique. Must Parkinsons sufferers also boycott this potential method that can ease their suffering?

---

quote:

---

For women who undergo hysterectomies each year for uterine fibroids, the development in Israel of the ExAblate 2000 System offers a non-invasive alternative to surgery. But this too would be on the list.

---

quote:

---

Israel is developing a nose drop that will provide a five year flu vaccine and if developed another no-no.

---

[ 10 June 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ]

If Intel has developed a "Centrium" processor in Israel, they've chosen not to release it. There's no such thing - the existing product is called the Centrino processor.

And as for cell phones?

Utter nonsense.

[ 10 June 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petsy:
I thought this was an interesting observation from a ttrade unionist

---

Eric Lee runs a website which provides a lot of news for trade unionists and organizes online campaigns all over the world.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petsy:
I thought this was an interesting observation from a ttrade unionist

---

Lord Palmerston responded:

quote:

---

Eric Lee runs a website which provides a lot of news for trade unionists and organizes online campaigns all over the world.

---

True. It's called LabourStart, out of the UK, and it's a damn good effort. I have it set as my default page.

As to the article he wrote, I'm less convinced. He makes a great point that boycotts are only even remotely effective, and only endorsed by unions internationally, when the local labour and public interest organizations call for one or endorse one of their particular countries.

He also stresses that most Israeli unions are not supporting this new boycott call—especially the large and conservative (by labour movement standards, that is) Histadrut national trade union coalition.

But what he fails to do is reconcile the fact that most Palestinian unions are calling for or endorsing this boycott—mainly to raise attention and put pressure on the Israeli regime to end the occupation and persecution of Palestinians, which is (especially in terms of the occupation) taking place on their land in what is supposed to be their country. That alone makes the boycott legit.

I don’t know what efforts have been made or how seriously pursued by Israeli labour unions and public interest organizations to pressure/persuade etc., the regime to change its policies toward the Palestinians and end the occupation. But obviously, they are not proving to be very effective, as the occupation has gone on for 40 years, and even successive Labour Party coalition governments in Israel have failed to make much progress on this.

It’s true that it takes two to tango in successful negotiations; and it’s true there are some pretty powerful reactionary/fascistic elements on the Palestinian side that tend to mess things up and even make them worse (which is in character of reactionary/fascistic politics everywhere on everything).

But the main fact here is that the Israeli regime’s occupation is illegal and totally unethical, and the act of invading and occupying these Palestinian lands is a violent and unacceptable atrocity, along with the associated horrible oppression and abuse of Palestinian civilians. And the Israeli regime is the main perpetrator of these atrocities, and so it is mainly the responsibility of the Israeli regime to address and correct them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
Not so much wrong, as totally meaningless fantasy:

[ 10 June 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ]

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
You're the one making claims; the general rule around here is that you're obliged to support them.

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