babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » Hudson's Bay 'Target'ted for takeover

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Hudson's Bay 'Target'ted for takeover
Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650

posted 13 August 2004 08:28 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bay watch: Hudson's Bay Co. stock rises on report of Target takeover bid
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448

posted 13 August 2004 09:24 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm furious at the idea that Target will take over the Bay. I shop at the Bay and Zellers specifically because they're Canadian. I'm pissed off to no end.

There won't be any more Canadian stores at all if this keeps up...


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 13 August 2004 10:08 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For what it's worth, the Bay has been a Canadian corporation -- in the sense of being mostly owned by Canadian shareholders -- only since 1970. Prior to that it was a British concern.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3790

posted 14 August 2004 08:43 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And an American has had a controlling share since...last year-ish?

I actually heard about this rumour weeks ago, and was surprised to read about it. It sounded very sketchy as if Target only had vague ideas about expanding into Canada.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sasha
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7042

posted 06 October 2004 12:19 AM      Profile for Sasha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What can be said about possible Target's takover scare? Only that to see HBC turn into a Target would be a shame. And it is only natural for Canadians to resent our much bigger neighbour for such transformations.
From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3148

posted 18 October 2004 03:15 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zoot Capri:
I'm furious at the idea that Target will take over the Bay. I shop at the Bay and Zellers specifically because they're Canadian. I'm pissed off to no end.

There won't be any more Canadian stores at all if this keeps up...


Good for you, zoot! I shop at the Bay and Zeller's for the same reasons (& also cuz my wife has worked for the Bay for 29 years, & we want the company to last at least until she retires).


From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
L. Borogrove
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7108

posted 18 October 2004 07:48 PM      Profile for L. Borogrove     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like the merchandise at The Bay, but find it too expensive a lot of the time. I hope prices don't go up if the company is taken over.
From: all over the place | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Enniskillen
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7149

posted 20 October 2004 11:23 PM      Profile for Enniskillen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Target Coming To Canada Hoorah !

I have always been mystified why anyone still shops at the Bay or Zellers. The Bay is not competitive and Zellers stores are just abysmal.
The Bay offers very little staff, and high prices to their customers.
Zellers is a vast wasteland of inferior products, disinterested staff, and stock shortages. As a time killer I used to go into my local Zellers to visit the antique electronics. I watched a televison sit on the shelf for over 7 years. Count them 7 years, never did they reduce it, I moved away and for all I know , it could still be there.
Fear of Target, brings back memories of hysteria surrounding Walmart's arrival in Canada. Do any of you remember the dingy places WOOLCO were ? Walmart ended up carrying far more Canadian products than Woolco ever dreamed of ! Not to mention all those Canadians that Walmart has brought jobs too. Prices have also been lowered by the competition that Walmart has brought to the marketplace.
My family shops at Target when we are in the U.S.A. they offer a more upscale merchandise than Walmart, competively priced , in clean, well lit stores.
If Target follows the model set by Walmart, they will bring jobs, increased consumer choice,lower prices, and an end to that waste of retail space that is Zellers. Fellow Canucks we deserve the best a retailer has to offer, not the least effort they can get away with. Shoppers will vote with their feet, as they have already done, ever tried to get into a Walmart on a weekend ? , as for Zellers you can usually go bowling in the aisles.
Having said all that Sam's Club in Canada has been a disaster!


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 20 October 2004 11:46 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Prices and the cost of living's really low in Nicaragua, but I wouldn't want to live there.

I think I read where roughly half of Walmart employees in the States are eligible for food stamps. Since the 43 consecutive months of manufacturing job losses finally ended in March, Walmart now employs more American's than any other private sector corporation. And they're in Canada now. Whoopee. I liked Woolco. Less glitz.

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2912

posted 21 October 2004 01:01 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
EnnisKillen - Don't dis Woolco. Some of us found our first real jobs there. I used to sell Commodore 64s and Colecovisions for them in grade eleven. BTW, your moniker wouldn't be a reference to the murder of Ennis Cosby, would it?
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 21 October 2004 03:23 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have always seen Target as the cooler, trendier kid brother to Walmart. They have their differences. And they certainly compete. But ultimately they're from the same family.

If you're interested in finding out more about the wages and conditions for Target workers, you might want to check out this site:

http://www.targetunion.org

It's run by UFCW Local 789, which is one of the two major UFCW locals in Target's hometown of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Local 789 is also one of the best in the UFCW, in my opinion.

[ 21 October 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4758

posted 21 October 2004 04:32 PM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
I have always seen Target as the cooler, trendier kid brother to Walmart.

. . . That's pretty much their positioning in a nutshell - "Target: Walmart for people too snooty to be seen in Walmart."


From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245

posted 21 October 2004 08:13 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Target prides itself on being competitive with Walmart on those areas where stock overlaps (within a couple of percent if I remember correctly). The big difference is the nature of their customer bases - median income for a Target customer is a multiple of that for a Walmart customer.

By the way, I did a Google for Target and unions and in an hour of searching the only serious complaints I could find from employees were about the union. Nothing about the company.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4270

posted 21 October 2004 08:21 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't Zellers and The Bay been accused of purchasing from companies with serious sweatshop abuses? Not exactly what I like to think of as the quintessential Canadian store.
From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 21 October 2004 08:36 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
By the way, I did a Google for Target and unions and in an hour of searching the only serious complaints I could find from employees were about the union. Nothing about the company.

That's interesting considering that not a single Target store or distribution center is unionized.

Visit targetunion.org. Check out the forums. Check out the "Ask the Rep" question and answer section.

There are certainly people posting who are against joining a union but it is mostly based on the general fears and misconceptions that come up in all organizing drives (i.e. "unions are communist," or "they protect lazy employees" or "if I support the union I'll just get fired.") But you'll also find some employees with very serious workplace concerns, who are looking for a solution and seriously considering unionization. As is their right, and something we should support.

[ 01 November 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Enniskillen
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7149

posted 22 October 2004 09:59 PM      Profile for Enniskillen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Enniskillen is a large city in Ireland, and was the inspiration for the name of the small Hamlet , within Ontario in which I live.

I too sold Commodore 64's and Vic 20's, but at Sears as a teenager. The pay was horrible, the chance of becoming full time non existent. It took me a month to earn the money, to pay for the suit I was required to wear.

Woolco was horrible, I worked there for a week , for the company that operated the men's clothing concession within the store. The stock in the entire store turned over so slowly that it had to be dusted regularly. Woolco wasn't just bought out by Walmart, it was euthanized humanely.

Canadians like Walmart, we like the glitz ( well lit, well stocked, fast turnover of stock) and it shows, I just came from there (7:00 Fri evening) and every line was 10 deep.

There are very few retail jobs, that pay well enough to support a family. Most of the jobs are part time minimum wage positions, or commision sales of appliances.

Walmart employees eligible for food stamps ! I will take your word for it. But do you suppose Zellers wages entirely support many Canadians ? Retail is an entry level job, you need to be able to walk upright, operate a calculator, practise good hygene, and for the most part the jobs pay what the market will bare.

As for employees being mistreated, well Canadian labour laws will apply in the new Target stores, as well as everywhere else.

Canadian retailing generally sucks, and Canadians deserve better than we have been getting. You may feel that I am wrong, and I may be, but let's watch the new target stores, I bet that there traffic flow through those stores will far exceed, what Zellers and the Bay are doing now. More traffic flow = more jobs .

I hope I have replied to everything, oh and as for Unions, I am a 21 year member of the Teamsters, and from my experience, the Union really does more for the lazy, the alchoholics, and themselves, but that is another thread topic I am sure


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 01 November 2004 02:57 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just thought I would post again to note that Targetunion.org has been through a significant software upgrade. Check it out and feel free to post your comments on that site.

I also thought this particular article was interesting and relevant:

Giants of Retail: All About Target and Walmart (originally published in the Baltimore Sun 03/21/2004).

quote:
The story of how Wal-Mart and Target have remade discount retailing, if not retailing in general, is a combination of age-old business thrift and New World technology. Their rises have as much to do with dogged inventory control and holding the line o­n labor costs as with focused marketing and meeting consumers' changing tastes. Their evolution also shows how companies can take divergent paths yet arrive at nearly the same place -- competing with and complementing each other at the same time.

Though they are the nation's two most popular sellers of general merchandise, Wal-Mart dwarfs Target in size and sales.

The Arkansas-based company posted $256 billion in revenue for the 52-week period that ended Jan. 31 -- more revenue than International Business Machines, Coca-Cola, Time Warner and Microsoft combined.

It is the world's largest employer with more than 1.3 million workers and 4,300 stores around the globe. By virtue of size alone, it is the market leader in almost any area it touches. It's the largest seller of toys, jewelry, groceries and many other products.

Target's influence isn't nearly as immense, but its expansion during the past decade has also had a major impact o­n shoppers. With nearly 1,400 stores nationwide, it posted $48.1 billion in sales for the year that ended Jan. 31.

Because it employs name designers for its home furnishings and clothing lines, the company has also had as great an influence o­n setting style for Middle America as anyone other than Martha Stewart.

Its fans sometimes pronounce the store "Tar-j'ai," with faux French accent -- a sort of mock tribute to the stores' attempt to create a level of style and sophistication.

"Wal-Mart is a very infrastructure-focused company that relies o­n behind-the-scenes low cost to deliver in-the- store low costs. They're able to draw a lot of volume from small communities," said Gary Ruffing, a former Kmart Corp. executive who works for a Michigan consulting firm.

"On the Target side, they've been able to take a department store feel and bring to it a discount store price," he said. "It's two different approaches to the same end."



From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ravenscript
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6803

posted 01 November 2004 06:01 PM      Profile for Ravenscript     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Enniskillen writes: "More traffic flow = more jobs ."

I'm not sure that this has been the experience of all communities, especially where Walmart is concerned. Some wags say that for every part-time job Walmart creates, a full-time job leaves as smaller retaillers are forced out of business. Although I'm certain that the effect isn't that drastic (allowing for propaganda on both pro-and-con sides), it is certainly true that a Walmart can profoundly affect the make-up of the business community it enters into.

That's why there are increasing revolts against Walmarts coming into communities, especially in the States.

Maybe the experience is different in the East as opposed to the West where I live, but frankly, Walmarts here are as much "holes" as Zellers in terms of merchandizing appeal. This includes the newest Walmart that opened on the edge of our small city where the extreme height of the shelves gives a distinct tunnel feeling to the shopping experience.

I do shop Canadian where possible. I also make it a point to support community-based and owned businesses whenever possible, especially because they tends to spend their hard-earned profits in my town, versus shipping the capital off to some distant shareholder who couldn't give a flying fweep about the quality of life in my community.


From: Regina | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650

posted 01 November 2004 06:16 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That ratio seems logical to me, since the economy of scale would predict that Walmart and other bigger stores should be able to serve more customers per staff (since small businesses have to keep a certain minimum number of staff on site at all times regardless of how busy it is).
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7126

posted 01 November 2004 09:13 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the idea of HBC being in some way better than Target sort of foolish. The comparison of Bush and Kerry comes to mind. Just because a store is Canadian does not mean it does not destroy small business, create urban sprall and discusting suburban malls.

Canadian or American, Democrat or Republican, when the outcome is the same the differences dont really matter.


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
natural wonder
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6912

posted 01 November 2004 11:34 PM      Profile for natural wonder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Enniskillen:
I am a 21 year member of the Teamsters, and from my experience, the Union really does more for the lazy, the alchoholics, and themselves, but that is another thread topic I am sure

Since you feel that way, maybe you should get a job at the Target when it comes to your town.


From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca