Hi, I'm Mary Anna, and I am a renter/tenant/resident of a 172 unit apartment building. I love being a renter, having owned, consecutively, 4 houses, one with a single car garage I transformed into a studio apartment, with loft. (No labor costs, as I did trades for about 60% and did the other 40% of the work myself.) I ended up marrying the final tenant (big mistake).

Home ownership is not for me -- way too much work. Too big an expense. And I didn't like spending summer days up on the roof or mowing the lawn. (Or other major projects, translate into "Everybody's goin' out and havin' fun; here I am at home workin', and havin' none." [Stolen from a 1950's hit song "Oh, Lonesome Me," as well as I can remember the lyrics.

So here is my point: I don't like the word, "Landlord." Nor do I like "Landlady," and that's almost never used. I don't like "Landlord/lady," or "Landlord or landlady," either. Sounds so stilted and cumbersome.

Well, I found the word, "rentier" in an Inspector Morse mystery book, pub. 1977, in Britain. In the book, it is used to describe the "status," or "job" or "work" or whatever, of this woman who owns rental property.

From what I have been able to dig up, it's a French word, pron. "RAHN-tyay." I do wish it were anglicized to be pronounced "renTEER".

Here are what I consider the best of what I found in several types of googlesearches this evening. One definition gives you the idea that rentier means more than one thing, which it certainly does. I'm personally interested only in its usage in relationship to land ownership/rentals.

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Rentier

From: Wikipedia,
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Rentier

A rentier is a person who lives on the income from property, bond interest, or other investment and is not personally involved in its operation.

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The Happy Traveller. A book for poor men. BY FRANK TATCHELL, MA ...
... Those of the tropical countries are written as I heard them, and the pronunciation
of the ... in the hotel list, the word for private gentleman is rentier in French ...
www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/tht1923.htm - 77k
“the word for private gentleman is rentier in French”
Choose a hotel in the market-place of a town, and do not be easily dashed by the poor exterior of an inn which bas been recommended to you by a native of the
6 THE HAPPY TRAVELLER
country: The chances are that it is decent and well found inside. If you have to register your profession in the hotel list, the word for private gentleman is rentier in French, possidente in Italian, and proprietario in Spanish. If this seems to you too lordly; simply write yourself down a student (etudiant, studente, estudiante). You may not be one in the literal sense, but, at any rate, you are a student of your fellow- men. (1). Do not always take the first room which is yon and do not disdain to haggle over the bill. Foreigner's despise a man who pays like a lamb.

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http://www.therestorationmovement.com/autobiography.htm

He was classed as a rentier, that is, one who lived from the "tentes" or interest, of money loaned out.

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http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000228
say boils down to the fact that one ought to be a prosperous rentier and not

'I am plagued like Job, though not so God-fearing', he wrote in 1858. 'Everything that these gentlemen [the doctors] say boils down to the fact that one ought to be a prosperous rentier and not a poor devil like me, as poor as a church mouse.' In other moods he would swear that the bourgeoisie would one day pay dearly for every one of his carbuncles...”
- Karl Marx

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I guess my question is: Can anyone here think of a word that would be a suitable substitute for "landlord" or "landlady"? "Property owner" is not broad enough; "manager" also is too narrow. This is due to the fact that the owners often hire managers. The owner may not be the manager -- and for that matter, which of these would be considered the landlord anyway? Is the management company (a huge company hired by the huge conglomerate which owns "my" building) the landlord? Or are the owner-company AND the management company together the landlord? Or is the young woman who manages the office in our building the landlady? I think she'd hate being called a landlady.

Maybe rentier would be a good "new" word in the US for landlord/landlady. Or maybe it could be used for the young woman in the office who collects our rent and oversees the leasing staff, assistant manager and maintenace crew, and is the liaison/contact person to the owner-corporation?

I'm writing a Brit email pal to see how commonly used rentier is for landlords/landladies over there, and what or who, precisely, rentier is used to describe.

I'm always hunting for better words. I know others are, too.

By the way, I found babble with a googlesearch for "rentier." I read the thread on marxism. Very interesting.

Why don't you like landlord/landlady? Because of its medieval roots? How about mortgage then? - pledging your death (or life). Or because the derogatory term slumlord has been formed from it? I don't think anyone assumes a landlady or landlord is a slumlord.

By the way, "renter" is just as vague as owner - tenant is a much more precise term, relating to rental occupancy. A renter can rent a car or anything.

Just a note - though we are talking about terms that can refer to women and to men, this thread has nothing to do with feminism per se. It should be moved, perhaps to labour and consumption, perhaps to writers' circle...

[ 11 March 2005: Message edited by: lagatta ]

The remittance isn't necessarily large - it could be a pittance as received, say, by Modigliani from his relatives in Livorno, or other artists - but it does imply unearned income - unearned not only at the time but even earlier in life and then invested. Though a rentier could do good and useful things with the money, in general it implies a bit of a parasitic class.

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Originally posted by audra trower williams:
Dear MistaX: Please stop advocating violence on babble or you'll be gone. This is a warning.

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Then ban me now, because I am all about violence for revolution and against fascism.

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
Bah! "Rentier", "property manager", "landlord"; it all boils down to petty-bourgeois.

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
And most of them should have "their" property confiscated and turned over to the "tenants" or "renters", or whatever you want to call them, well a good chunk of them should be beaten and perhaps even shot, especially in the 3rd world.

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And don't be a putz about this stuff.

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Originally posted by The Other Todd:

Hardly all of them are petty bourgeois. The biggest bourgeois also fall into (perhaps even moreso than the small bourgeois) the category of rentier.

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Well, most "landlords" are petty-bourgeois. If you are talking about big corporations like Tridel and property rental companies, they are in the real estate business in general and don't exclusively rent out, in most cases. They are not usually run by one individual. Those individuals part of them are also usually involved in many other businesses, these bourgeoisies have invested interests in many things. They own means of production and property exclusively as their means of surplus; they do not “work” for wages.

Someone who is exclusively a landlord is rare, and is most of the time some retired "worker" who acquired a few properties and now lives off the surplus of property rentals. A "worker" who is also a landlord, is usually petty-bourgeois.

My landlord also drives for the TTC. He and his parents own a few properties around here. He comes around and fixes things when they are broken (after much harassment from me) and collects the rent each month. I might bump in to him around here and there doing casual things. He is petty-bourgeois.

The bourgeois are not the type of people who go out and collect rent, fix your stove, or that you would see standing in line with you buying groceries. They have managers that expect cheques made out to their company, and they have contractors that do renovations, repairs, and what not; real estate agents that buy them more property, and investors that work for them to get more money in stocks and what not.

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Originally posted by The Other Todd:

And don't be a putz about this stuff.

Kneejerk bloodthirstiness and revenge fantasies does not a good analysis make.

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It's simple, the reason why offence has been taken is because landlords are mostly petty-bourgeois, and this site (babble) is also mostly petty-bourgeois. So when I advocate violence against people who are clearly oppressive yet part of the same class as a few liberal charity types with guilt in there hearts, of course I will be delt with swiftly.

Hardial Bains said that "The issue is not to wave the red flag, but to show our colours through our deeds". The deeds done here (or lack of) or that will be done show the colours of those people. My colours will show with the actions I take. I have no sympathy for anyone who lives of the toil, suffering, or needs of others, regardless to how "guilty" they claim to feel about it.

If you want to feel guilty about taking 60% of some single mom's welfare cheque and come up with a more "progressive" name for yourself like "rentier" to try and ease the pain, then you should join babble and read some Dickens. Maybe some Naomi Klein too.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
If you want to liberate your sisters and brothers, read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao and make something happen. Pick up a book, a gun/stick/sword/bat/brass knuckles/whatever-you-can and/or mic/megaphone and make shit happen.

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Stalin? Mao? No matter how brilliant you may consider their ideologies, do not their track records discount them from any sort of postive reference? Do I need enlightening here?

Also, I used to rent property. So, I guess that makes me a petty bourgeois, and thus explains my thick-headedness regarding Joe and Mao.

Thank you, Babble! In the real world I live my life feeling life a freak for my leftist opinions. Then, I come here and find that I I am such a long way from being any sort of extremist.

[ 30 March 2005: Message edited by: gabong ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
If you want to liberate your sisters and brothers, read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao and make something happen. Pick up a book, a gun/stick/sword/bat/brass knuckles/whatever-you-can and/or mic/megaphone and make shit happen.

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you know, i just carefully re-read all the postings in this little thread. and, i have to admit that i agree with Mista-X more than those who don't agree with him. Though, I only agree with Mista-X just a little bit.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
Well, most "landlords" are petty-bourgeois. If you are talking about big corporations like Tridel and property rental companies, they are in the real estate business in general and don't exclusively rent out, in most cases. They are not usually run by one individual. Those individuals part of them are also usually involved in many other businesses, these bourgeoisies have invested interests in many things. They own means of production and property exclusively as their means of surplus; they do not “work” for wages.

Someone who is exclusively a landlord is rare, and is most of the time some retired "worker" who acquired a few properties and now lives off the surplus of property rentals. A "worker" who is also a landlord, is usually petty-bourgeois.

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As for big companies not being in the rental business, I have one word: Minto.

You know, to my embarrassment, I forgot that Marx didn't include land owners as bourgeois. They really are a class to themselves.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
It's simple, the reason why offence has been taken is because landlords are mostly petty-bourgeois, and this site (babble) is also mostly petty-bourgeois. So when I advocate violence against people who are clearly oppressive yet part of the same class as a few liberal charity types with guilt in there hearts, of course I will be delt with swiftly.

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It can't be because you're simply acting like an asshole?

Believe me, Sonny, you're not going to win friends and influence people like that. Not even here.

And people, for whatever reason, aren't always clear on their class position in society; not everyone reads Marx. Just hitting them with a statement of "their class position" out of the blue, sans argument and analysis, is about as effective as a belch.

quote:

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Hardial Bains said that "The issue is not to wave the red flag, but to show our colours through our deeds". The deeds done here (or lack of) or that will be done show the colours of those people. My colours will show with the actions I take. I have no sympathy for anyone who lives of the toil, suffering, or needs of others, regardless to how "guilty" they claim to feel about it.

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Doesn't Mao make an observation about how the capitalist center lives off the periphery? If that's the case, you too are living off the toil of others. Unwilllingly or maybe just unknowingly.

And I have little sympathy for those who live off exploitation either. However, deliberate murder of those sorts does nobody any good. Haven't you heard revenge is a dish best served cold? Why not let them live to piss and moan about what they've lost and be forced to work like most do now?

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If you want to feel guilty about taking 60% of some single mom's welfare cheque and come up with a more "progressive" name for yourself like "rentier" to try and ease the pain, then you should join babble and read some Dickens. Maybe some Naomi Klein too.

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Oh, don't be such a twat. What's progressive about the term? From what I've read here, it's even more precise.

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If you want to liberate your sisters and brothers, read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao and make something happen. Pick up a book, a gun/stick/sword/bat/brass knuckles/whatever-you-can and/or mic/megaphone and make shit happen.

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Gosh, you think?

To paraphrase the Old Man himself: if that's your idea of Marxism, then I'm not a Marxist.

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If you want to liberate your sisters and brothers, read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao and make something happen. Pick up a book, a gun/stick/sword/bat/brass knuckles/whatever-you-can and/or mic/megaphone and make shit happen.

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Hehe. You want I should read some Mao and then go on a killing spree with my sword? Purge the countryside of the intellectuals so the peasant-farmers can plow in peace?

I love angry little turds like you. Seriously. Your parrotted rhetoric and sense of importance makes me howl. Despite all common sense to the contrary, you can't help but believe that some day you'll be at the forefront of what you can only hope will be a very bloody coup, eh? All th world's problems fixed when you hit a guy in a suit. Capitalism overturned to make way for the people's paradise of Maoism (and we know how awesome Maoism was the first time, don't we?)

quote:

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Originally posted by gabong:

Stalin? Mao? No matter how brilliant you may consider their ideologies, do not their track records discount them from any sort of postive reference? Do I need enlightening here?

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[ 11 May 2005: Message edited by: Agent 204 ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Keenan:

But don't you see? All those people had to be killed- they were monarchists and counterrevolutionaries! It's a dirty job, but someone had to do it!
[ 30 March 2005: Message edited by: Mike Keenan ]

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More like, "There were monarchists and counter-revolutionaries."

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Originally posted by gabong:
[QB]

Stalin? Mao? No matter how brilliant you may consider their ideologies, do not their track records discount them from any sort of postive reference?

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No.

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Do I need enlightening here?

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I would not say "enlightening", but perhaps you should gather the facts.

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Also, I used to rent property. So, I guess that makes me a petty bourgeois, and thus explains my thick-headedness regarding Joe and Mao.

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If you are making money from a piece of private property, then you are petty-bourgeois. You could be a cab driver who owns his own cab, or a trucker with his own rig.

Some petty-bourgeois are not wealthier than workers, and not necessarily enemies of workers. Often, petty-bourgeois interests lie very close to that of workers. They are potential allies of the working class and proletarians.

Most landlords would not have the same interest as the working class and proletarians. I never said they were all enemies. What I said was "most of them should have "their" property confiscated and turned over to the "tenants" or "renters", or whatever you want to call them, well a good chunk of them should be beaten and perhaps even shot, especially in the 3rd world." and "I have no sympathy for those who live of the toils of others".

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Thank you, Babble! In the real world I live my life feeling life a freak for my leftist opinions. Then, I come here and find that I I am such a long way from being any sort of extremist.

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Originally posted by gabong:
Mista-X, are you sure that you are motivated by rational politic thought. Or, is it the just the natural anger tha courses through the veins of all young mammels?

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What was so irrational about it, please tell me?

If someone is living in a place with constant problems, such as loss of heat/water, mouse, cockroach and/or other infestations, leaky ceiling, high rent, etc. and the government isn't doing shit to force the landlord to fix the situation, does it not make sense to for the person to take matters in to their own hands?

It seems to me it would be very stupid to do nothing.

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Originally posted by The Other Todd:

As for big companies not being in the rental business, I have one word: Minto.

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I never said that. I thought I made it clear that there is - just not owned/run by one individual (too my knowledge) - but I left the question open. Re-read what I wrote.

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You know, to my embarrassment, I forgot that Marx didn't include land owners as bourgeois. They really are a class to themselves.

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It depends on what type of property owner you are talking about; capacity, etc...

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And the term "rentier" is much more encompassing than simply a "landlord".

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It can't be because you're simply acting like an asshole?

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That's you're POV.

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Believe me, Sonny, you're not going to win friends and influence people like that. Not even here.

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My name's not Sonny and I’m not interested in friends and influence. If I was I would join the NDP or the I.S. or something.

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And people, for whatever reason, aren't always clear on their class position in society; not everyone reads Marx. Just hitting them with a statement of "their class position" out of the blue, sans argument and analysis, is about as effective as a belch.

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Why? I don't need to be told I'm working class. It's pretty obvious. I simply stated the obvious about landlords. If someone disagrees with the statement we can debate it and get in to further analysis. It seems to me here what your saying is my argument was not wrong, it was simply not academic enough to your liking. Who cares?

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Doesn't Mao make an observation about how the capitalist center lives off the periphery? If that's the case, you too are living off the toil of others. Unwilllingly or maybe just unknowingly.

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That's right, we are called oppre$$or nation "workers". There is a difference between working class and proletarian. There is almost no white proletarian.

It was not just Mao that made this observation; it was Marx, Engels, and Lenin too.

I would not expect anyone in the 3rd world to have sympathy for me. If I was a janitor working in the WTC and got killed, too bad.

And when the cheap goods I enjoy start getting cut off because of 3rd world liberation, I'm just going to have to suffer for it. Those who fight for it, fight for imperialism and should be killed.

The only groups that have had the right ideas on this in the west (but not completely accurate) have been the Black Panthers, Weatherman and now MIM; and people like Ward Churchill and Sakai.

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And I have little sympathy for those who live off exploitation either. However, deliberate murder of those sorts does nobody any good. Haven't you heard revenge is a dish best served cold? Why not let them live to piss and moan about what they've lost and be forced to work like most do now?

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Certainly, that could work as well. It depends on the situation. Sometimes it is better to kill counter-revolutionaries before they have the chance to start the counter-revolution.

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Oh, don't be such a twat.

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A twat? That's kind of a dumb thing to write in a feminist discussiona area, don't you think?

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What's progressive about the term? From what I've read here, it's even more precise.

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My interpretation was that this persyn didn't like the words "land" and "lord" in their title.

It kind of makes them sound a lot more oppre$$ive and feudal; well "rentier" sounds sort of post-modernist and almost "chic" to some, don't you agree?

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To paraphrase the Old Man himself: if that's your idea of Marxism, then I'm not a Marxist.

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Then you're not a Marxist.

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You sound more like a bonehead anarchist, dribbling pearls like that.

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And you sound like a populist - that would bend over to whatever's convenient - "dribbling pearls like that"!

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: Mista-X ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Hehe. You want I should read some Mao and then go on a killing spree with my sword? Purge the countryside of the intellectuals so the peasant-farmers can plow in peace?

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It is interesting that I am the one being called an "extremist" and "asshole" here, well things like this are being said by others. I never said anything remotely close to this, and this is an oversimplification of what happens in a revolution, to say the very least.

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I love angry little turds like you. Seriously.

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And yes, before you even say it, I know that I, and all the other running dogs of the KKKapitalist overlords will be first against the wall when your glorious revolution comes. If you need me, I'll be watching out the window.

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Originally posted by The Other Todd:

You sound more like a bonehead anarchist, dribbling pearls like that.

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:

Hey!
You can't blame him on us. Anarchists, even the idiots who think anarchy is about wearing black t-shirts at demos, saying "smash the state" and busting windows, do not go around telling people to read Stalin. Not exactly an Anarchist sort of dude, don't y'know.

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I have heard serveral people calling themselves "anarchists of the left". I heard on guy on CBC radio say that he was "s sort of communist influenced anarchist".

This I do not understand. Aren't communism and anarchism opposites? One is about big government, the other is about no government.

I may have misjudged you.

However, I do find it hard to take anyone completely serious when the say things like, "when the revolution comes".

The communism revolutions have had their go around (and yes, I agree with the hackneyed caveat that communism is a good idea in principle) and failed.

As for anarchy, I am not sure what order can come out an ungoverened human society.

Anyway, you reference to "revolution", is, I think, little more than a fashion statement.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:

Hey!
You can't blame him on us. Anarchists, even the idiots who think anarchy is about wearing black t-shirts at demos, saying "smash the state" and busting windows, do not go around telling people to read Stalin. Not exactly an Anarchist sort of dude, don't y'know.

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That's why I qualified my statement with "bonehead". Chomsky's an anarchist I can respect, and I know a few others who can make intelligent critique.

It was this little pearl:

quote:

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If you want to liberate your sisters and brothers, read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao and make something happen. Pick up a book, a gun/stick/sword/bat/brass knuckles/whatever-you-can and/or mic/megaphone and make shit happen.

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Originally posted by gabong:
This I do not understand. Aren't communism and anarchism opposites? One is about big government, the other is about no government.

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No.

Communism and anarchism are on the same ideological end of the continuum; anarchism is more "to the left" than communism, just as liberalism is more "to the right" of both.

Read Marx' critique of the anarchist Bakunin's critique of Marx (I've posted it before on Babble; it's somewhere), Marx' Critique of the Gotha Program, and his examination of the Paris Commune for his ideas on government. Just to say that communism is about "big government" (whatever that is) is kind of like arguing that the Liberals are fascists.

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I get the impresion that kids like to call themselves things like "anarchist" and "communist" not because they really know what it means, but because they know those sorts of labels will piss off their parents.

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Considering his hatred of the NDP and IS, I think we may be chatting with one of the 8 members of the Spartacus League.

He mentioned Hardliani Brains. That suggests the CPC-ML.

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:

Hey!
You can't blame him on us.

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What exactly is the blame here? Do you really have any political beef with me, or is it more like you just don't like my style?

quote:

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Anarchists, even the idiots who think anarchy is about wearing black t-shirts at demos, saying "smash the state" and busting windows, do not go around telling people to read Stalin. Not exactly an Anarchist sort of dude, don't y'know.

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I would think that smart Anarchists would tell people they should read Stalin, if they want people to really understand what they are proposing is incorrect. I fight Nazis and read Mein Kampf and I also read what they write on their message boards. Though fascism and national socialism are not much ideologically, it helps me find out useful info for fucking them up when I can talk their talk and practice their lingo.

At the same time, I don't not exclude reading Trotsky or any of his proteges from my plate. It was by starting out within Trotskyite circles that I learned the truth about Comrade Stalin and Mao Zedong.

But I am really curious, how many of you here have actually read Comrade Stalin? And - as MIM said - don't lie and say that you did!

I'll reply to the rest later...

[ 12 April 2005: Message edited by: Mista-X ]

quote:

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Originally posted by kingblake:
I've read Stalin, and I don't think I'd be alone in saying he's an abject intellectual lightweight.

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This is interesting. Are you suggesting that one has to be part of the intelligentsia in order to be a great revolutionary or leader?

So Stalin wasn't a petty-bourgeois intellectual like Trotsky; he - like Gorky - actually had a hard life and had to learn mostly by himself and with the help of other comrades.

What you are suggesting, and what bourgeois scholars like to suggest, is that only the educated can lead the masses, and it has to be a professional (i.e. bourgeois) education or it's not good enough. Very George Orwell of you.

Anyways, you can talk all the shit you want about Stalin being an "abject intellectual lightweight" but it's just that: shit talk. When you have finished your 16 volumes of works, lead the defeat of an attacking fascist war machine, industrialized and made in to a superpower several backwards countries with many nationalities, and socialized half of Europe, get back to me.

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While I agree with you about reading texts with which you disagree, this only really holds true for intellectual tracts. What I mean is that you can learn a lot about Hitler by reading Mein Kampf, but if you wanna learn about American Imperialism, I'd suggest looking elsewhere than GWB speeches.

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I think it would be important to read GWB speeches if you wanted to expose his lies. Castro listens to GWB, and responds when he feels it is needed. But if you are wanted to learn about Republican policy and/or imperialism you might be better of reading Republican Party documents.

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Likewise, Stalin never really wrote about "Stalinism" as an ideology.

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There is no Stalinist ideology. It is simply a phrase used by revisionists to try and justify their perversions of Marxism-Leninism.

Stalin never claimed to have added to Marxist-Leninist theory, simply a continuer of it. Mao Zedong thought is an extension of Marxism-Leninism.

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That was his apologists' jobs. Besides, most of his crimes didn't really come out 'til after his death.

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These so called crimes, such as forced Ukrainian Famine were created long before Stalin’s death, and popularized in North amerikkka by Nazi sympathetic propagandists. More crap about Stalin was invented in order to justify Khrushchev’s destruction of socialism and restoration of capitalism in the Soviet Union later on. Since the archives have been open, those who uphold Stalin have been asking for the proof of these so-called crimes. What is being proven is the opposite. What Stalin said is now coming true: "When I die, many buckets of mud will been thrown on my face. But the wind and rain will come and eventually wash it away."

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Are you suggesting that one has to be part of the intelligentsia in order to be a great revolutionary or leader?

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You snidely asked whether any of us had even read Stalin, I answered in the affirmative by saying that his collected works aren't terribly enlightening when it comes to the subject of Stalinism, and I stick by that.

You wanna learn about Stalinism, read Koestler, Serge, Trotsky, whatever. I'm sure there's some good intellectual defenses of stalinism out there too. The point is that they weren't made by Stalin. As I said, Stalin was a man of action - he didn't have time to pen his version of "history will absolve me..." because he was busy making history, for better or worse. It fell to his apologists to write his defense. And besides, his crimes only really came to light after his death, so unless he wrote secret commentaries on the execution sheets which he then signed, of course none of his writings will really address them. Otherwise he doesn't really go into much more detail than "the kulaks won't purge themselves"... And for the record, no, they didn't.

In any case, I don't think we were debating the relative merits of his "socialization of half of Europe", were we? We were talking about his writings. You didn't ask "how many of you are aware of the fact that Stalin did this that and the other", you asked who had read Stalin.

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When you have finished your 16 volumes of works, lead the defeat of an attacking fascist war machine, industrialized and made in to a superpower several backwards countries with many nationalities, and socialized half of Europe, get back to me.

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Does he have to stop there, or can he build some Gulags first? Can he execute just a few thought criminals before he gets back to you?

quote:

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Originally posted by The Other Todd:

I was referring to (not referencing Stalin). X's ability to mouth phrases doesn't particularly impress me, nor does his activist-ism.

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I'm sorry I didn't write an essay on the need for action and putting theory in practice and the teachings of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. I'm sorry I don't live up to your intellectual expectations.

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*tee hee* Considering his hatred of the NDP and IS, I think we may be chatting with one of the 8 members of the Spartacus League.

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I never said I hate the NDP and the IS, I simply have political differences with them. It doesn't necessarily garner emotions in me.

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You go, boy! Smash that capitalist state, and all us running dog lackeys!

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Why is this so humerous to you? Is it because you would not want it to ever really happen?

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Maybe.

He mentioned Hardliani Brains. That suggests the CPC-ML.

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That's very mature. When you have founded several communist parties around the world, and have become the author of several books and articles, get back to me... and just because I quote someone doesn't mean I am necessarily a follower of their ideology.

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Y'know, I have to look askance at a CP which promotes the dead man who founded the splinter on their homepage.

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I'm not sure what's wrong with remembering and learning from the founder of the party, and CPC-ML was never a "splinter".

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Originally posted by kingblake:
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about the CPC-ML. Or maybe MiM. Were the Sparts pro-Mao?

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Why is it so important to show that I am part of some organization or party? Is this so you can come up with even more red herrings (as if there isn't enough in this thread already)?

If you are really so curious about me, it seems as though my "biography" has popped up on WikiPedia.

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Mista-X ]

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Y'know, I have to look askance at a CP which promotes the dead man who founded the splinter on their homepage.

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I'm not sure what's wrong with remembering and learning from the founder of the party, and CPC-ML was never a "splinter".

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I've been told quite the opposite by people who seemed to be in the know about this stuff, but no matter: splitting is endemic among the left.

It's not a matter of "remembering and learning from" the party founder, it's a matter of looking too damn much like a cult of personality. Is there another CP, anywhere in the world, which has the _party_ founder so (relatively) prominently displayed (nevermind where)?

Marx on personality cults:

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I ‘bear no ill-will’ (as Heine says) and nor for that matter does Engels. Neither of us cares a straw for popularity. Let me cite one proof of this: such was my aversion to the personality cult that at the time of the International, when plagued by numerous moves — originating from various countries — to accord me public honour, I never allowed one of these to enter the domain of publicity, nor did I ever reply to them, save with an occasional snub. When Engels and I first joined the secret communist society, we did so only on condition that anything conducive to a superstitious belief in authority be eliminated from the Rules. (Lassalle subsequently operated in the reverse direction.)

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It's not a matter of "remembering and learning from" the party founder, it's a matter of looking too damn much like a cult of personality. Is there another CP, anywhere in the world, which has the _party_ founder so (relatively) prominently displayed (nevermind where)?

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Interesting, then by (what seems to be) your definition, the NDP has and even bigger personality cult around Jack Layton and Tommy Douglas then CPC-ML does around Hardial Bains and Sandra Smith.

I invite anyone to visit cpcml.ca and ndp.ca and tell me which party seems to be more obssessed with their leader.

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Mista-X ]

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Originally posted by Mista-X:
Interesting, then by (what seems to be) your definition, the NDP has and even bigger personality cult around Jack Layton and Tommy Douglas then CPC-ML does around Hardial Bains and Sandra Smith.
[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Mista-X ]

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Yup, throw the NDP in there too (but, unlike any CP, they're not trying to live down a rep for democratic centralism). But they're really more like most bourgeois political parties: they have a leader fetish, rather than what looks like a cult of personality.

Where's the Tommy Douglas angle? I didn't see his pic or name splashed on the page, just Layton's mug.

[ 15 April 2005: Message edited by: The Other Todd ]

If you go to the CPC site they actually have photos of Bains' tombstone with candles all around it. Six different photos to choose from.

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Is it at all worth noting that Jack is on the NDP website because he's still alive and leading the party?

If you go to the CPC site they actually have photos of Bains' tombstone with candles all around it. Six different photos to choose from.

That's so beyond creepy.

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First of all, it's not Bain's tombstone, it's a party memorial which commemorates many fallen comrades.

Second, I only see three pictures.

Thirdly, it's CPC-ML, not CPC.

Sandra Smith is alive and leading the party, and there is no hype in the party around her. She acts like and is treated no differently from any other party member.

So your Jack has a bigger personality cult by far ("Jack it up", "Jack Layton Film Festival", "Jack Attack", etc.)

[ 15 April 2005: Message edited by: Mista-X ]