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Topic: Venezuela -- Of Chavistas and Anarquistas
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Vigilante
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8104
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posted 27 September 2005 05:55 PM
Of Chavistas and Anarquistas: Brief Sketch El Libertario, VenezuelaBy Michael Staudenmaier, with Anne Carlson (November-December, 2004) For almost a month, from mid-November until mid-December, 2004, we traveled in Venezuela, meeting an array of politically engaged activists from a variety of perspectives. Without a doubt, the foremost lesson we learned during our brief time there concerned the complexity of the social and political situation in the country, which has been consistently over-simplified in the United States. Where the mainstream media in this country portrays President Hugo Chavez as the next Fidel Castro, busily turning Venezuela into a Communist (or at least anti-US) dictatorship, the US left in general has welcomed Chavez uncritically as the new face of progressive struggle in Latin America. North American anarchists, meanwhile, struggle to understand the situation, and are too often torn between these two opposing but comparably one-sided perspectives. Time spent on the ground in Venezuela, if nothing else, demonstrated to us the inadequacy of both these approaches. This essay is a brief attempt to convey some of our experience, with the goal of broadening the anarchist and left discussion of the situation on the ground. We spent time with both anarchists and Chavistas, and in both contexts met people who represented a range of positions from more orthodox and dogmatic to more hybrid and flexible. This was a second visit to Venezuela for one of us, and a first visit for the other, but both of us have significant experience living and traveling in Latin America. Our travels took us through three large cities and a similar number of small towns, and while we would never identify ourselves as experts of any sort on Venezuela, we feel reasonably qualified to draw some tentative conclusions based on the range of our experiences. http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050927085522609
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 03 October 2005 02:59 PM
The authors say: quote: Perhaps the most amazing thing about Venezuela was the enthusiasm shown by nearly everyone we met, regardless of their political outlook (or lack thereof, in some cases). Wherever we turned, people not only wanted to show us their favorite parts of town, they also wanted to share their analysis of the political situation. Whether they thought of themselves as pro-Chavez or anti-Chavez (or somewhere in between), people displayed no trepidation about sharing their opinions with us. This openness stood in stark contrast to our experiences in other Latin American countries, where much of the population is reserved, especially in discussing political matters. It was unclear to us how much of this enthusiasm was a result of the changes wrought by Chavismo, and to what extent it pre-dated his rise to power; many people claimed the openness was a new phenomenon, while others argued that it has long been part of the "national character."
I was in Venezuela about ten years ago. It was almost impossible to get anyone to talk politics (other than actual Ministers of the government, who we met, also.) So, I think there must be an actual absence of fear which is newly present in Venezuela; ten years ago, people on the street or in markets would simply say "No me gusta la politica", and leave it at that.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 04 October 2005 01:49 AM
quote: Originally posted by Vigilante: Goes to show when ever people talk about countries like Cuba's ed system juxtaposed to others, I simply counter by saying the indoctronation camps are more full.
Your anti-communist, anti-Cuba rhetoric has become monotonous, Vigilante. I see you're fresh out of references to infoshop and experts on Cuba like "Morpheus." Educational Achievements in Contemporary Cuba
Harvard Graduate School of Education April 1, 2002 quote:
Some of Cuba's accomplishments include:- Universal school enrollment and attendance
- A 98% adult literacy rate
- A strong scientific training base, particularly in chemistry and medicine
- Consistent pedagogical quality across widely dispersed classrooms
- Equality of basic educational opportunity, even in both rural and urban impoverished areas
In comparison with other Latin American countries, Cuba consistently ranks higher on several measures, including: - More women have access to higher education and are enrolled in post-secondary institutions in Cuba than in any other nation in Latin America
- Cuban students outperform other students in Latin America in math, science, and literacy
Harvard Grad School of Education News Perhaps you and Morpheus could take an A&P scooter diversion to Harvard and tell them all about the "indoctrination camps" they must have overlooked during academic exchange programs with the island. [ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 04 October 2005 04:45 PM
quote: Further, any socialist revolution we have will be unlike those of anybody else ...
The "revolution" is like "the Second Coming" or "The End Times". Instead of God coming to earth to punish the wicked and reward the pious, the "revolutionaries" punish the "wicked" (the bourgeoisie, the rich) and reward the "pious" (the Anarchists or the Communists, depending on what 'religion' is discussing the revolution). Before the End Times/revolucion there is wickedness, depravity and corruption. Afterward there is (Workers') Paradise on Earth. Those who fail to repent before the rivers run red with blood will be smited/first against the wall. Seriously... there's not going to be a revolution and you know it. Maybe you won't lose face and admit it, but deep down you know you're never going to see the masses take up arms in Canada. Bummer.
From: ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 04 October 2005 05:03 PM
quote: Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
The "revolution" is like "the Second Coming" or "The End Times".
Socialism exists in Scandinavia and around the world, Magoo. Worker's everywhere are continuing to fight for their rights today in spite of liberal and conservative pro-scab legislation across Canada. You might protest the very existence of the ongoing worker's struggle by refusing to accept any union wage rates offered you in future and bargain for your worth in the market place across the table from people in suits worth more than your wardrobe. As with "the Kingdom", socialism is all around you, Magoo. And there Cuba goes to your chagrin. [ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 04 October 2005 05:07 PM
quote: Socialism exists in Scandinavia and around the world, Magoo.
Socialism I like. I'm a fan. But my understanding is that most Marxists, Leninists, Trotskyites, Huxhaites, Maoists, Anarchists, Anarcho-feminists, etc., are by no means satisfied with just that. And to them I say "Oh well, keep dreaming of your Rapture then". Say, Sweden's revolution... was it bloody? Did they eat the rich?
From: ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 04 October 2005 05:28 PM
Okay, but... in your mind's eye, we're not dressed like lumberjacks, are we?
From: ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ, | Registered: Dec 2002
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blake 3:17
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10360
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posted 04 October 2005 05:40 PM
Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. I was preapred to annoyed and wasn't. Vigilante, do you the politcal orientation of the authors of the piece? The outline of the three basic anarchist positions on Chavez made sense. quote: The situation in Venezuela is refreshingly different, because a massive section of the population is not only open to the possibility of radical change, but seems actively interested in comparing alternative visions and strategies. It remains to be seen whether the anarchists in Venezuela have the numbers, the resources, the skill and the fortitude necessary to have a noticeable impact on the ground. Nonetheless, through both propaganda efforts like "El Libertario" and grassroots projects like the Centro, anarchists have a real chance to change the political trajectory of Venezuela, and possibly even the continent.
This seems both imaginative and relatively concrete. Do you or others have a sense of Venezuelan anarchism around race and gender issues?
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2005
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DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490
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posted 04 October 2005 11:20 PM
Enter the "Bolivarian PC"! quote: Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has already promised to sell cheap oil to the United States' poor, and now he's going to offer cheap PCs, too.The Venezuelan owned oil company CITGO operates eight refineries in the USA and franchises out 14,000 gas stations; the first cheap gas pilot project will start in La Villita in Chicago next month. The 900,000 residents in the mostly Latin neighborhood will get oil below the rate set by the Arab-dominated OPEC cartel for hospitals, schools and nursing homes.
This man rocks.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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