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Author Topic: Lamont-Lieberman II
josh
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posted 12 August 2006 04:15 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Empire Strikes Back.

quote:

In the wake of Tuesday's Connecticut primary, it's hard to say which group came across looking more desperate and out of sorts: Sen. Joseph Lieberman's bungling campaign staff, universally derided as tone-deaf and slow-footed, or Beltway-based pundits who sounded noisy alarms about the disastrous impact a win by Ned Lamont would have. Progressives would be wise to ignore the pundits' free advice, since it seems to have been driven less by concern about the Democratic Party's well-being and more by personal affinity towards Lieberman, insecurity about the surging liberal bloggers, and fear that Americans might start holding somebody--anybody--responsible for Iraq.

The Lamont media flailing truly was remarkable. How else to describe longtime Lieberman pal and DC corporate lobbyist Lanny Davis, trolling online through liberal comment sections in search of random anti-Semitic slurs in order to prove thoughtful progressives opposed to Lieberman were really filled with "scary hatred." Davis also trembled theatrically for a liberal Connecticut buddy who confided that he might not return to the state to vote on primary day "out of fear for his safety."

. . . .

For the last few years mainstream media pundits and reporters chuckled over the bloggers' dismal 0-16 streak in backing candidates in previous campaigns. But the Lieberman stunner (stunning, in that four months ago nobody thought Lamont could prevail), changes everything. As of right now, the bloggers not only have juice, but represent perhaps the most potent force in progressive politics. You don't think that scares Beltway insiders who for decades saw themselves as the de facto king makers?

Revealing, too, is the fact that MSM pundits and reporters don't focus on Lieberman's arrogant decision to abandon the Democratic party in order to hang onto his seat in November by running as an independent.


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060828/prob_w_pundits


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 12 August 2006 04:26 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The attempt to smear and marginalize Lamont.

quote:

The narrow primary defeat of veteran Sen. Joe Lieberman in Connecticut's Democratic primary is more than a loss for one man. It is a loss for his party and for the country. It completes the capture of the Democratic Party by its Taliban wing.

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20060810-084244-8757r.htm

quote:

Commenting on the Connecticut Democratic primary race between businessman Ned Lamont and Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman, Weekly Standard editor William Kristol claimed that Democrats who oppose Lieberman do so because Lieberman is "unashamedly pro-American," while right-wing pundit Ann Coulter asserted that those favoring Lamont as Connecticut's U.S. senatorial candidate are "anti-American." In his column for the August 14 issue of The Weekly Standard (posted on The Weekly Standard's website on August 4), Kristol wrote that "[w]hat drives so many Democrats crazy about Lieberman is not simply his support for the Iraq war. It's that he's unashamedly pro-American." Similarly, on the August 9 edition of Fox News' The Big Story with John Gibson, Coulter asserted that Lamont's victory in the Connecticut primary illustrates that "the anti-American wing" of the Democratic Party is "absolutely in the ascendancy right now."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608100006

quote:

Today on CNN Headline News, anchor Chuck Roberts discussed the impact of the foiled British terror plot with Hotline senior editor John Mercurio. Roberts asked Mercurio, “How does this factor into the Lieberman/Lamont contest? And might some argue, as some have, that Lamont is the al Qaeda candidate?”

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/11/headline-news-lamont/

And, from the candidate himself

quote:

If we just pick up like [sic] Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England. It will strengthen them, and they will strike again.


http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2006/08/cheney_to_lamon.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Vanessa S
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posted 12 August 2006 02:18 PM      Profile for Vanessa S     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good to see Lieberman defeated. Hopefully the Democratic Party will be better for it.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Flash Walken
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posted 12 August 2006 03:04 PM      Profile for Flash Walken     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Today on CNN Headline News, anchor Chuck Roberts discussed the impact of the foiled British terror plot with Hotline senior editor John Mercurio. Roberts asked Mercurio, “How does this factor into the Lieberman/Lamont contest? And might some argue, as some have, that Lamont is the al Qaeda candidate?”

Good grief.

Isn't that slander of the lowest order?

Disgusting.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 12 August 2006 05:20 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Flash Walken:

Good grief.

Isn't that slander of the lowest order?
.


Expect new and lower orders of slander to be created soon.


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 12 August 2006 05:45 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Flash Walken:

Good grief.

Isn't that slander of the lowest order?

Disgusting.


No, its what passes for 'objective journalism' in the good old US of A.

Lieberman's not going anywhere. He knows better than the Democratic voters of CT. Now a Republican actually has a shot at capturing the seat. The war party marches on.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 12 August 2006 09:43 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Taliban wing?!"

Precisly how far are we from progressives being arrested under the USA patriot act?


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Stockholm
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posted 13 August 2006 12:51 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ifd ahyone represents the Taliban wing of the Democratic party its lieberman since he's so ultra-religious!
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Left Turn
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posted 13 August 2006 01:17 AM      Profile for Left Turn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Americain Egalitaire wrote:
quote:
Lieberman's not going anywhere. He knows better than the Democratic voters of CT. Now a Republican actually has a shot at capturing the seat. The war party marches on.

What makes you think that the Republicans have a chance of capturing the seat? Most of the mainstream media is clearly gunning for Lieberman. It was posted to the Lamont/Lieberman thread at EnMasse that when Lamont won the primary CNN went out of its way to describe the Republican candidate as "weak".

I suspect Lieberman will draw as many votes from the Repunlicans as he does from the Democrats. Most of the large percentage of Conneticut voters who oppose the Iraq war won't vote for Lieberman (and they're even less likely to vote for the Republican candidate).

[ 13 August 2006: Message edited by: Left Turn ]


From: Burnaby, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 13 August 2006 04:15 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He may have been facetious; implying that Lieberman is the Republican. If not, the no, the Republican has no chance of winning. It's between Lamont and Sore Loserman.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 13 August 2006 07:52 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't really get the problem. Anyone has the right to run for office, right? Why should the Democratic and Republican parties have a lock on anyone who runs?

So, Lieberman tried to get Democratic support for his leadership and failed. So, since he has certain issues he wants to stand for with the voters, he's running as an independent. So what? It's well within his rights, and not only that, I think it's undemocratic to suggest that he shouldn't. Of course, the guy's a prick, but even pricks are allowed to run for office. If the Democrats don't want him, then he'll see if the voters do.

I don't see the problem.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 13 August 2006 09:14 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

even pricks are allowed to run for office.




Pricks are only allowed to run for office if they are attached to a body. It's in the Constitution.

quote:

Cheney's comments about the election were ugly and frightening. They show once again that he and his party will stop at nothing to wrap Republicans in the flag and to insinuate that anyone who votes against them is giving aid and comfort to the terrorists. It's obvious that this administration lacks basic respect for our fundamental freedoms.

Cheney and his crowd are all for free and open elections - as long as they turn out their way. They are all for free speech - provided it supports the administration. They are all for the rule of law - as long as the law does not prevent them from doing whatever they want to do. When elections, speeches or laws are inconvenient, he does not hesitate to declare that they are helping the terrorists. I can think of no graver offense against our democracy.


http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-commentarykennedy0813.artaug13,0,5926112.story


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Michelle
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posted 13 August 2006 09:17 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Pricks are only allowed to run for office if they are attached to a body. It's in the Constitution.

Wow. Explicitly?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 13 August 2006 09:37 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Only in the US; in Canada, they can get elected on their own. You will no doubt recall seeing the following entry in Hansard:

"Some Honourable Members: Oh! Oh!"


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rasmus
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posted 14 August 2006 08:41 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem is not a problem about whether someone in general can run as an independent, the problem in this case is that it's a sign of Lieberman's arrogance and sense of entitlement. He announced he would do it before the primary even happened. The impression is that his loyalty to the Democratic party was based on nothing more than its willingness to help elect him.

A lot of sensible media pundits are saying this is a pivotal event in US electoral politics, and I find myself agreeing. Even though it's a primary in a very liberal state, I think the significance goes beyond that. The Democratic establishment largely backed Lieberman. Now they've had to choose and they've backed Lamont. So I think it's going to make it harder for them to advance pro-war politics in the future -- now they see that there can be a cost, and they've been embarrassed by it.

More analytically speaking, there has been a huge penning-up of anti-war sentiment among the American people that has yet to find any expression at the political level. Ultimately, this situation is unlikely to hold and Lamont might be a kind of beachhead for anti-war forces at the political level.

Finally, I think it's interesting that a lot of the smear tactics used against Lamont aren't sticking. The anti-semitism charge seems to have sunk like a stone. Elsewhere, Cheney's attempts to make political hay out of UK terror arrests are actually drawing criticism from the MSM. So, it may be that those politics are losing their power. In the election for senator, I think some chunks of the MSM and the Republican party (Karl Rove) will be playing dirty against Lamont. They may find a way to make it stick. But Lamont's team has also shown they can deal with such tactics in funny, creative ways.

An equally likely outcome, I think, contrary to the pundits' predictions, is that as the Democrats fall in line behind Lamont and he becomes a "real" candidate, as attention is focused on the actual politics of Lieberman, support for him among independents in a state that is 63% against the war will fall away.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 August 2006 10:44 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If Joe wins the general as an independant the real question then becomes if the Dems will allow him back to the Democratic fold in the Senate.

His one seat could not only turn the control of the Senate to teh Dems but it is possible if the swing is big enough to prevent the auto veto.


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josh
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posted 14 August 2006 11:55 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They shouldn't let him back in, but they probably will. He has already said he will caucus with the Democrats. The big question would be whether he gets his choice of committe assignments.

As for the filibuster proof majority, unless another 9/11 occurs there's no a remote chance in hell of that happening. The Democrats are nearly locks to gain seats in the senate. But it could be as little as 1, or as many as 5. They need six for control, which I can't see them getting. They have a much better chance of gaining control of the House.


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Scott Piatkowski
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posted 14 August 2006 12:03 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
They shouldn't let him back in, but they probably will. He has already said he will caucus with the Democrats. The big question would be whether he gets his choice of committe assignments.

Does he still have his existing committee assignments, or has he been stripped of them (or resigned)?


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josh
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posted 14 August 2006 12:23 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He still has them.
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Américain Égalitaire
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posted 14 August 2006 06:29 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well yeah. Leiberman is a Repub in all but name but there is always the chance that a weak dark horse could surprise. Probably not here though.

Sure Joe can run as an independent but its really bad form in the US to do this once you've lost your party's nomination. Its thought of being a spoilsport. He probably feels he can do this because the GOP candidate is so weak. Nevertheless, its generally regarded as bad form and many prominent Dems have done what they can to dissuade him. If he loses this race, he's politically toast if previous history is any guide.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 16 August 2006 03:03 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

A group of Senate Democrats is growing increasingly angry about Sen. Joe Lieberman’s (D-Conn.) campaign tactics since he lost the Democratic primary last week.

If he continues to alienate his colleagues, Lieberman could be stripped of his seniority within the Democratic caucus should he defeat Democrat Ned Lamont in the general election this November, according to some senior Democratic aides.

. . . .

“At this point Lieberman cannot expect to just keep his seniority,” said the aide. “He can’t run against a Democrat and expect to waltz back to the caucus with the same seniority as before. It would give the view that the Senate is a country club rather than representative of a political party and political movement.”



http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/081606/news1.html


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thorin_bane
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posted 16 August 2006 02:29 PM      Profile for thorin_bane     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Only because the repugnican is a lying gamler who has used false names and acrued large gambling debts on several occasion. Having a problem is one thing, lying about it is another. Course Usians have problems with people the percieve to be weak. Gambler=weak, especially if they are repug.
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Scott Piatkowski
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posted 16 August 2006 07:45 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tom Tomorrow on "The liberal jihad against kindly Joe Lieberman"


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Hunky_Monkey
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posted 17 August 2006 03:05 PM      Profile for Hunky_Monkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is interesting... most political pundits predicted new polls wouldn't be positive for Lieberman due to a Lamont "bounce" from his win...

quote:
Lieberman leads in Connecticut poll

Anti-war challenger Lamont lags 12 points behind

By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
MSNBC
Updated: 2:32 p.m. ET Aug. 17, 2006

WASHINGTON - A new opinion poll of Connecticut voters released Thursday indicates Sen. Joe Lieberman — rejected by his own party — can nevertheless make the electoral math add up for a win on Nov. 7.

The new Quinnipiac survey found that, among voters likely to cast ballots in November, Lieberman has 12-point lead over the man who beat him in the Aug. 8 Democratic primary, Ned Lamont.

The poll indicates that, as he did in his last Senate election in 2000, Lieberman gets strong support from Republican voters.

He also wins more than a third of Democrats, despite the fact that he’s no longer his party’s official nominee.


MSNBC

[ 17 August 2006: Message edited by: Hunky_Monkey ]


From: Halifax | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 17 August 2006 04:09 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, most pundits predicted that Lieberman would be ahead and would probably win the race.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 17 August 2006 06:08 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And in the previous Quinnipiac general election matchup, taken before the primary, Loserman had a 24 point lead.

The problem in the numbers for Lamont is how pathetically poor the Republican, Schlesinger is doing. Lamont needs Schlesinger to at double his support, if not crack double figures. That will drain votes from Loserman. Also, Lamont needs to bump up his Democratic support from 65% to 70%. For Lamont, the latter is harder than the former. He can't very well go around attacking Loserman for being "too liberal" on domestic affairs. But that line of attack would peel away some Republican support from the nominal Republican to the real Republican.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hunky_Monkey
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posted 17 August 2006 06:56 PM      Profile for Hunky_Monkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Duplicate

[ 17 August 2006: Message edited by: Hunky_Monkey ]


From: Halifax | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hunky_Monkey
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posted 17 August 2006 06:58 PM      Profile for Hunky_Monkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus raven:
Actually, most pundits predicted that Lieberman would be ahead and would probably win the race.

When I watched both CNN and MSNBC, their pundits predicted Lieberman may decide not to run due to unfavourable polls right after Lamont winning the primary. We must have been listening to different political analysts.


From: Halifax | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 26 September 2006 04:00 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hee hee hee.

This is a pretty funny radio ad for Lamont, about Lieberman's absenteeism. It's called "Calling In Sick".


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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