BEIRUT, Lebanon -- A bomb apparently targeting U.N. peacekeepers exploded by the side of a road in southern Lebanon on Sunday, killing four Spanish troops and injuring at least four, a senior Lebanese security official said.

[ 24 June 2007: Message edited by: Webgear ]

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with their precision, US-made weapons, can they really plead "accident" again???

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I apologize for being hasty there.
For some reason I confused the IED with IDF. As in the Israeli Defense Force.

The articles dont mention Israel. anyway, Hizbollah has called the bombing "sucpicious".

Still,we know that Mossad doesnt have to report to the IDF for its activities, which have been rather dirty around the Middle East.
Or, according to the article, its Al-Qaeda that did the attack...

[ 24 June 2007: Message edited by: BetterRed ]

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Originally posted by BetterRed:

I apologize for being hasty there.
For some reason I confused the IED with IDF. As in the Israeli Defense Force.

[ 24 June 2007: Message edited by: BetterRed ]

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It is ok, I was wondering what you thinking when I saw your reply.

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Originally posted by BetterRed:

I apologize for being hasty there.
For some reason I confused the IED with IDF. As in the Israeli Defense Force.

The articles dont mention Israel. anyway, Hizbollah has called the bombing "sucpicious".

Still,we know that Mossad doesnt have to report to the IDF for its activities, which have been rather dirty around the Middle East.
Or, according to the article, its Al-Qaeda that did the attack...

[ 24 June 2007: Message edited by: BetterRed ]

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Originally posted by ohara:
some here have such hate that

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Once more, and you're suspended. I've had it with this type of behaviour.

[Edited to be more temperate.]

[ 24 June 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

Until I see proof to the contrary, I will assume that the same criminals are responsible here.

[sentence deleted after rebuke by moderator]

[ 25 June 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Originally posted by unionist:

Sorry, ohara. Real Jews don't support Israel.

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Originally posted by Joel_Goldenberg:

That's beyond the pale. What is a real Jew, according to your definition?

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A "real" Jew, or a "complete" Jew, is one who consciously and proudly upholds the enlightened, progressive, universalist, and humanitarian traditions which the Jewish people have acquired (though certainly not uniformly) over the centuries of the Diaspora.

This is not intended as a juridical definition - it is purely a personal value judgment on my part. Sort of like saying, "real Canadians don't support merger with the U.S.".

My usage of the term "real Jew" accords roughly with that of Bertell Ollman (although I don't personally agree with his solution of resigning from the Jewish people):

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What, if anything, has such Zionism got to do with traditional Jewish values?

As far as I'm concerned, the comedian, Lenny Bruce, provided the only good answer to this question when he said, "Dig, I'm Jewish. Count Basie's Jewish. Ray Charles is Jewish. Eddie Cantor is goyish... Marine Corps—heavy goyish... If you live in New York or any other big city, you're Jewish. If you live in Butte, Montana, you're going to be goyish even if you're Jewish... Kool-Aid is goyish. Evaporated milk is goyish even if Jews invented it... Pumpernickel is Jewish and, as you know, white bread is very goyish.... Negroes are all Jews... Irishmen who have rejected their religion are Jewish... Baton twirling is very goyish".6

To this I would only add, "Noam Chomsky, Mordechai Vanunu and Edward Said are Jewish. Elie Wiesel is goyish. So, too, all 'Jewish' neo-cons. Socialism and communism are Jewish. Sharon and Zionism are very goyish". And, who knows, if this reading of Judaism were to take hold, I may one day apply for readmission to the Jewish people.

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Source.

For me, and I will only speak for me. I once had my "Jewishness" questioned by a Rabbi who was convinced I was not a real Jew because I did not go to his shul and could not recite all 613 Mitzvote.

Unionist your generalization is neither ironic or funny.

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:
Your invocation of humour does not lesson the pain of your generalization.

For me, and I will only speak for me. I once had my "Jewishness" questioned by a Rabbi who was convinced I was not a real Jew because I did not go to his shul and could not recite all 613 Mitzvote.

Unionist your generalization is neither ironic or funny.

It is hurtful and I ask you to remove your post.

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Yeah, well I've had my "Jewishness" questioned constantly for the last 40 years because I oppose Israeli policy and because I oppose the notion that Jews need a "homeland" apart from the countries where they live.

unionist I will gladly debate like a mensch when a comment is debatable.

This comment was not that, rather it was insulting, insensative, unnecessary and hurtful.

ETA: Cross post with Moderator.

[ 25 June 2007: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]

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Originally posted by Michelle:
I know these debates get contentious, but such deliberately provocative and offensive posts are over the line. Please don't do it again.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Listen, I'm just saying that you can't tell someone you're debating with here that he's not a "real Jew" because he supports Israel.

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I didn't. I was responding ironically to this:

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Even when Israel is clearly not at fault, some here have such hate that Israel gets blamed. And you wonder why Jews who support Israel react as they do...ya go figure!!

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But I guess irony doesn't work here, when someone decides to claim their feelings have been hurt.

You see, I attacked no one. I commented on my view of what it means to be a real Jew. You have a problem with that because you think it constitutes an attack on some individuals. You're mistaken.

Having said that, you're the moderator, so I'm scrolling up and editing out the offending comment. You still haven't responded about Lenny Bruce (who was arrested for profanity) or Bertell Ollman, so I'll just leave them for now. Hope they don't hurt anyone's feelings.

ETA: Oh yes, important question. Please review this post and advise if it is contrary to babble policy. If it is, I will certainly edit or delete it as well.

[ 25 June 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

" Six United Nations peacekeepers belonging to the Spanish army who died in Lebanon on Sunday were killed by a car bomb, Spanish Defence Minister Jose Antonio Alonso said Monday.

The bomb containing 50 kilos of explosives was set off by remote control, Alonso explained at a press conference at a Spanish battalion base in Marjeyoun during a visit to southern Lebanon."

"Fatah Al Islam and other forces affiliated with Al Qaeda, who have been battling the Lebanese army since May 20 in the north of the country, have threatened to hit UNIFIL forces in southern Lebanon, accusing them of helping the Lebanese army shell their bases in the Nahr Al Bared Palestinian refugee camp outside Tripoli."

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The attack may have been an act of vengeance, because the Spanish contingent had looked for those responsible for launching rockets into northern Israel, Spanish intelligence sources were quoted as saying.

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That would be Hezbollah, no? Or has Fatah Al Islam been accused of firing rockets at Israel? I'm asking because I don't know.

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Fatah Al Islam and other forces affiliated with Al Qaeda, who have been battling the Lebanese army since May 20 in the north of the country, have threatened to hit UNIFIL forces in southern Lebanon, accusing them of helping the Lebanese army shell their bases in the Nahr Al Bared Palestinian refugee camp outside Tripoli.

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But Fatah Al Islam are the mortal enemies of Hezbollah, no?

It is possible that some of the information was lost in the translation.

I have never study this UN mission or the background behind the issues.

I find this an interesting topic and thought some else may have some knowledge behind the attack.

"Which United Nations contingent in southern Lebanon will be next? It is a ghoulish, terrible question after the car bomb attack that killed six Spanish soldiers of the 13,000-strong international army on Sunday evening, but one which the officers of the UN Interim Force - Unifil - are asking at their intelligence meetings."

Murder of peacekeepers raises stakes in Lebanon