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Topic: Has babble become more male-dominated?
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 19 June 2006 04:24 PM
I was thinking just the other day of starting a thread called "Sexist Thread Titles". Then I went looking for examples but only found two currently available. About a month ago there were two or three threads about Harper's response to the softwood lumber dispute using, as Scott Piatkowski put it, "anal rape" metaphors. The only one I could still google was this one: Harper Bends Over for Softwood But yesterday there was this one too: Will Jack Layton, Bob Rae and other "lefties" ever grow balls over the Afghan War? Not a violent or homophobic metaphor, but exclusionary nonetheless. It's good anyway that I could only find two. Hopefully folks will be a little more conscientious in the future?
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 19 June 2006 09:02 PM
quote: Originally posted by Michelle: How do you figure that "Harper bends over for softwood" is referring to anal rape? Anal sex, yes, but rape? I don't think so. Unless you think the person was trying to say that Harper was unwilling but was forced, when in fact the criticism with Harper is that he's all too willing to suck up to the Bushites....but I can see where people might not like seeing anal sex referred to in a negative way.
Well, the analogy was someone else's, but I think his interpretation is not exactly uncommon. Maybe 'rape' was a harsh reference, but I would guess most people here understand that to "bend over" for something suggests sexual submission - not in itself bad, except for its intended connotations of weakness, "pussy"ness, subordination. Who bends over to "take it"? Women, fags and people who are forced to (and anyone who likes it too, I guess). But generally you don't hear women (gay or straight) or fags using this term to insult someone or something, unless they've internalized a culture of sexual violation. It's usually straight men using the term negatively. So I do suggest that the term, the way it was used in this case, is either sexist or homophobic or both.
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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maidenhead
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12721
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posted 21 June 2006 08:26 AM
"but progressive women will only post in places where they feel safe."I only post where there are interesting discussions taking place. And I'm okay with not everyone agreeing with me. In fact, being on forums where only one line of thinking is allowed, and everyone is spending most of the time patting each other on the back because of their oh-so-enlightened-state are rather boring. We all have things to learn. And forums should be places to stimulate thought and discussion, and learn some things from those with whom we're exchanging those thoughts. And hopefully some of those ideas are those upon which we can actually act out there in the real world where the change is needed. The fact is that their are sexists, ageists, bigots, racists, homophobics, and a lot of other negatives ists and ics out there, and on-line forums provides you with the 'safety' you need regardless of the content of some of the less enlightened users. Everyone's only weapon in on-line forums: words. That seems fair enough to me. And when words are used improperly, don't let them make you feel unsafe - take charge and point it out! [ 21 June 2006: Message edited by: maidenhead ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2006
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writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513
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posted 21 June 2006 02:59 PM
Each and every time, these things should be called what they are, not accepted, on a progressive board. Women live with day-to-day sexism in an oppressive, conformist culture. Left women want to change that by liberating everyone. Babble was created as part of that project. Don't expect us to lie still and think of the queen for the sake of the revolution. (Not that I think you are, M.) [ 21 June 2006: Message edited by: writer ]
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972
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posted 21 June 2006 10:07 PM
quote: Originally posted by clersal: I am not a prolific poster but the nice thing now about Babble as it seems so much calmer and there is less sniping. I like that.
Oh, wow!! I'll say. I don't feel nearly as tense reading babble threads (hadn't really thought of that til I read your post). There are still a lot of very, very good debates and discussions on babble but I think there is (nearly) an absence nasty personal attacks. I think that makes babble a more welcoming place to be. Just my $0.02.
From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005
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Farces
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12588
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posted 22 June 2006 07:44 AM
I think "dominated" is the wrong word to be using here. It is loaded with all kinds of unsavory connotations that may or may not apply. It is possible to have more of one gender in a place without any sort of domination going on.Maybe there is a higher proportion of male posters here lately. that seems like a less leading way to raise the issue. Making females feel welcome in a forum does not need to entail making males feel less welcome. At least I don't think it should. [ 22 June 2006: Message edited by: Farces ] [ 22 June 2006: Message edited by: Farces ]
From: 43°41' N79°38' W | Registered: May 2006
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 22 June 2006 07:57 AM
I don't think the people talking about male domination on babble are merely talking about ratios of men to women. I think they're talking about behaviour as well, as noted above, when excluding language is used, and when concerns about such are shrugged off. And there could be a cause-and-effect happening as well - perhaps the ratio is uneven BECAUSE of that sort of behaviour. It's a question worth asking. Also, no one is suggesting that males be made to feel unwelcome here. It's not a zero-sum game. [ 22 June 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Farces
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12588
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posted 24 June 2006 02:25 AM
No, it is males who have their ideas shunted down to the forums at the bottom of the board, denominated as "right brain" and otherwise marginalized in ways both subtle and unsubtle.This is not male domination of female. Rather, this is female domination of male. Maybe some males prefer that. This one doesn't. ON EDIT: Females can argue and learn every bit as well as males. I know this for at least the reason that I graduated from a law school where my peers were more frequently female than male. There is still such a things as male on female sexism and that can and should be dealt with decisively. Short of that, however, there is no need to ghettoize the male commentors as sometimes occurs. It is a lazy substitute for real discussion and a very imperfect sort of tolerance for the "other." ANECDOTE: I don't deal with female lawyers very much professionally because my area of specialty is electrical and mechanical patents. There are simply not a lot of female electrical engineers and mechanical engineers. Because of the gender disparity, there are not a lot of females who have my particular job or who work with me in a capacity as client or inventor. Now going back a dozen or so years to my third year of law school, it came time to do my writing requirement. My writing requirement advisor, whom I chose, was female and had a reputation as a feminist professor (her primary area of consulting was mediation of school racial integration disputes, but she had some gender related scholarship, too). Early on in the writing requirement project, I suggested that my writing requirement paper investigate whether legal rules of some sort, unique to the engineering disciplines, might be partially responsible for the glaring gender disparity in the electrical and mechanical engineers. My advisor said that this would not be appropriate because I was male. I ended up doing my writing requirement on an uncontroversial topic so as not to ruffle any feathers and graduate on time. This negative experience is now ancient history, but it has really come back to me the past couple of days. [ 24 June 2006: Message edited by: Farces ] [ 24 June 2006: Message edited by: Farces ] [ 24 June 2006: Message edited by: Farces ] [ 24 June 2006: Message edited by: Farces ]
From: 43°41' N79°38' W | Registered: May 2006
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 23 October 2006 09:59 PM
Re: discussion above about anal sex metaphors used to connote being "screwed", "fucked over" and other negative things:Another example found here: quote: If this Arar case does not awaken Canadians to the extent to which police powers in this country are fast approaching fascist propensities then the country better stock up on knee pads and ky jelly because we are all going to be severely screwed when the light actually does go on.
Evidence that this is sexist or homophobic language? If getting fucked up the ass is such an abhorrent experience why does so much straight male porn fixate on anal penetration of the female object?
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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