quote:

---

Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Governmentbacked study has revealed.

It found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial.

There is also resistance to tackling the 11th century Crusades - where Christians fought Muslim armies for control of Jerusalem - because lessons often contradict what is taught in local mosques.

The findings have prompted claims that some schools are using history 'as a vehicle for promoting political correctness'.

The study, funded by the Department for Education and Skills, looked into 'emotive and controversial' history teaching in primary and secondary schools.

It found some teachers are dropping courses covering the Holocaust at the earliest opportunity over fears Muslim pupils might express anti-Semitic and anti-Israel reactions in class.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coyote:

As an aside, I am greatly distressed that I went through high school learning nothing about the Armenian genocide. I don't know if this is still the case, but I would like to see that changed.

---

This is still a problem, and perhaps the main reason teachers want to avoid the issue. I sat in on a recient class here, where the teacher was talking about early Maori settlement in NZ. She referred to Maori religious beliefs as 'fables', and 'just stories' I saw the Maori children in class turn away at that point. I'm sure Christian children would react in a similar way if she talked like this about the virgin birth, she could have included this POV when she mentioned the missionaries. She also called British immigrants "English" and said 'arn't they the same thing?'

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

Likewise. Although being much older than you, I will never forget that my Grade 9 European history textbook said that many civilians were victims of World War II, including "thousands of Jews".

---

-Who said so ?

-Well, its is a government backed something, or a some pseudo-journalist baked story.

quote:

---

Originally posted by bohajal:

-Hmm! Perhaps these Muslims should endure a similar Holocaust. Then they will learn !

---

The said part about this story is that they are baiting them with the holocaust ...

the holocaust is when the Europeans did not want the Jews and when Capitalism needed a villian ....

[ 01 April 2007: Message edited by: trippie ]

I do however think that coming from an insignificant klutz as I am, it pales compared the "measured response" comment that came from peace-loving Canada's Prime Minister, or the "I don't lose sleep over it" from Canada's Prime Minister wannabe Harvard boy.

[ 01 April 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]

Page 14 discusses the incidents cited in the article, at this point the practices in question seem somewhat isolated.

[ 01 April 2007: Message edited by: Khimia ]

quote:

---

Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Governmentbacked study has revealed.

---

In fact, I see only one school mentioned as having avoided teaching the Holocaust - and it doesn't say it "dropped" it either:

quote:

---

For example, a history department in a northern city recently avoided selecting the Holocaust as a topic for GCSE coursework for fear of confronting anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils.

---

The real horror story here is the British media. I don't know why anyone would read the Daily Mail anyway, given its right-wing homophobic anti-abortion anti-immigrant etc. stances, as well as its pro-Nazi history.

[ 01 April 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

ETA: EmmaG and 500_Apples seem to master the art
of crafting thread titles.

[ 01 April 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Khimia:
Whether the practice is prevalent or not, the fact that teaching the Holocaust is being "avoided", (avoided vs 'dropped" is a moot point if the Holocaust is not taught at all), even if only by 1 school is simply wrong and is in fact racist as EmmaG pointed out.

---

What about the lead to the article? "Schools drop Holocaust..."? You think that's fair and balanced? It's a hysterical exaggeration and lie.

The article was leading, but we aren't discussing the article.

[ 01 April 2007: Message edited by: Khimia ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:

That stated, out of curiosity why hasnt anyone challenged the thread title here as was done in the thread I started?

---

Well, if you read the thread, you'll see we only found the study after several posts, so we couldn't know the title was right or wrong - only that EmmaG's post was provocative.

Once we had a chance to read the study, I said (look 8 posts up):

quote:

---

In fact, I see only one school mentioned as having avoided teaching the Holocaust - and it doesn't say it "dropped" it either:

"For example, a history department in a northern city recently avoided selecting the Holocaust as a topic for GCSE coursework for fear of confronting anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils."

---

Later, I condemned the title on the newspaper article for talking about "schools" (plural) and "dropped".

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
Yes but no one asked EmmaG to change her heading. Seems pretty inconsistant to me

---

EmmaG, would you change the lying title on this thread already?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
That it took you this long to ask is telling.

---

Is telling what? That I'm soft on EmmaG? I'll work on that.

quote:

---

Unionist face it you are not always right.

---

quote:

---

That it took you this long to ask is telling.

---

She mentioned Rwanda, Darfur, Uganda, former Yugoslavia as why we must ensure that Never Again means Never Again.

When the kids went to the centre they were loud and rambunctious as kids are. As they left they were silent.

ETA: and maybe that is why the Holocaust must continue to be taught in schools. It can serve as a warning to the hell that man can bring upon their fellow man

[ 09 April 2007: Message edited by: miles ]

This piece-o-shit Global CanWest-style paparazzi media rave was exposed and debunked as wholly inaccurate on this other thread, was it not?

The people who post these superficial and not-very factual stories, with even more bombastic and misleading headlines need to give their heads a shake.

Individual teachers, school boards and Ministries of Education decide what should be taught and then how it should be taught.

IMHO it is imperative that we all ensure that these important lessons do not fall by the wayside.

quote:

---

She mentioned Rwanda, Darfur, Uganda, former Yugoslavia

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by muggles:
I hope someone in the audience had the good sense to chime in with "cough-cough native people cough-cough".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by miles:

While this one story might be bullshit I fear it could become truth.

---

Yeah, but your "fear" is based on no evidence whatsoever. I gave you my evidence - the almost total lack of recognition of the Nazi Holocaust when I was a child. Even other Jews (who had immigrated before the war) seemed to have little clue about what my family had been through. We didn't study it even in Jewish parochial day school. That started to change, I think, in the 1970s.

You may be correct that my fear is not backed by truth. But if this was a pre-requisite for posting on Babble then I dare say that almost every thread would have posts that would be deemed to be out of order.

Muggles raises an interesting point as how we as Canadians generally do not turn in to look at what we have done in Canada but only focus out to the other parts of the world.

ETA: myself I learned nothing about the Holocaust officially in public school. It was simply not taught in curriculum. I did have a teacher who was from Holland who did spend time teaching it in History.

Most of my Holocaust education came from Talmud Torah

[ 09 April 2007: Message edited by: miles ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by miles:
Unionist while you might have learned nothing about it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scout:

It's pretty obvious your fingers aren't broken so what took you so long? What's telling is you trotting in here to scold babblers for doing something you could yourself just as well.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
...this has more to do with the other thread on this issue (now closed) where unionist was quick to scold me for a similar thread title to EmmaG.

---

Yes, why did you start another tyhread on the very same thing as emma, after you had already posted to the other thread? But do not bother answering that, as I do not really want to know. I was just pointing out you had an agenda.

-------------------------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Max Bialystock:
Unionist is right. My parents were Polish Jews who survived the war and they were treated rather shabbily by Canadian Jews whose families came before the war.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by remind:
Yes, why did you start another tyhread on the very same thing as emma, after you had already posted to the other thread? But do not bother answering that, as I do not really want to know. I was just pointing out you had an agenda.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michelle:
If you don't really want to know, don't ask. He already explained why and it's already dealt with. Let's not start up with sniping about side-issues like that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by remind:

Please provide examples of unionist saying this, and what you mean of shabby treatment.

---

remind, you're right, I didn't actually say that earlier immigrant Jews treated us shabbily - I said they "seemed to have little clue about what my family had been through". I certainly can't blame them for that, because in the 1950s, the "West" was too busy fighting the evils of Communism to want to rehash some crimes of the Nazis. So many people here just weren't getting the information. In fact, while my parents, like other survivors, were subject to incredibly strict immigration quotas, others who stated they had "fought against communism" during the war were given carte blanche to enter Canada. But that story has already been told.

Even though I didn't say it, there's more than a grain of truth to Max's comment about our shared experience. My parents, like his no doubt, came here as "DPs". The survivors were not welcomed here with open arms, whether by the government or by the established Jewish community. We were something of an embarrassment, it seemed. There was no support network, really nothing, to recognize the catastrophe that people had endured and to help people - who arrived here shortly after seeing all their family members slaughtered, not to mention penniless and speaking neither official language - to get their feet on the ground.

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
...others who stated they had "fought against communism" during the war were given carte blanche to enter Canada...Even though I didn't say it, there's more than a grain of truth to Max's comment about our shared experience. My parents, like his no doubt, came here as "DPs". The survivors were not welcomed here with open arms, whether by the government or by the established Jewish community. We were something of an embarrassment, it seemed. There was no support network, really nothing, to recognize the catastrophe that people had endured and to help people - who arrived here shortly after seeing all their family members slaughtered, not to mention penniless and speaking neither official language - to get their feet on the ground.

From what I see, refugees today often get pretty similar treatment.

---

Thanks for the info unionist, actually, it sounds much like those who have always immigrated to Canada, from the first settlers/colonial occupiers, up those who would come later.

Deleted

[ 10 April 2007: Message edited by: ohara ]

quote:

---

remember when the refugees came to Canada...or displaced people as they were called were not really welcome by many Jewish people. They were called Mockeys. Don't know what it meant.

---

This is a very common phenomenon where immigrants look down on people from the same country of origin who arrived more recently.

Have you ever heard the way CBCs (Canadian Born Chinese) speak with total disdain and contempt about FOBs (fresh off the boat) from mainland China???

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
Long before the Holocaust when a lot of Jews from Poland and Russia started immigrating to North America, they had to put with all sorts of snobbery from second generation Jews of German and Austrian descent who were couldn't stand the thought of being associated with poor people wearing fur hats and speaking Russian.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
Even though I didn't say it, there's more than a grain of truth to Max's comment about our shared experience. My parents, like his no doubt, came here as "DPs". The survivors were not welcomed here with open arms, whether by the government or by the established Jewish community. We were something of an embarrassment, it seemed.

---

That's right. Part of the reason was the established Jewish community wanted the survivors to go to Israel. But I susepct most people in the DP camps wanted to go to North America. But few did.