babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Dubya's European Adventure

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Dubya's European Adventure
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 21 February 2005 02:12 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The report by the BBC reporter travelling with the Bush entourage is wry, if a bit snooty - loved the waffles: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4284069.stm

Bush is bypassing Frankfurt where he lands in Germany and not travelling to Berlin; in Germany he is only visiting Mainz and Wiesbaden, two small cities near Frankfurt on opposite sides of the Rhine. Just as was the case during his Candadian appearance, he seems to be making no public appearances whatsoever, except for carefully staged photo-ops including one with troops stationed at Wiesbaden.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 21 February 2005 03:09 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bush's itinerary reveals him for the gutless, spineless, stupid moron that he is.

[sorry. visceral hatred of the man. hope you understand.]


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
catje
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7841

posted 22 February 2005 03:51 AM      Profile for catje     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
the article paints it as a remarkably peaceful visit, which surprises me given that europeans often slag bush and the US as much as we do. i know the dutch at least were taking to the streets . . .
From: lotusland | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 22 February 2005 11:32 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I checked out Le Soir (a mainstream Belgian paper) and indymedia belgium and there was little info on demos of note. I was at a huge antiwar demo in Belgium two years ago - there was a huge one in Montréal and elsewhere on the same day, 15 Feb. Glad to see there were demos in the Netherlands - must check out Nederland indymedia. There was a huge demo last year against social cuts there, certainly the largest since the war. Here are some of the inconveniences the Bush visit will mean for the townspeople of Mainz: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1493287,00.html
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 23 February 2005 04:19 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Der Spiegel reports some 12,000 anti-Bush demonstrators in Mainz, twice what the organisers were predicting! http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,druck-343342,00.html You can run the article through a machine translation if you want, but I'm posting it mostly for the pics. There are a few on indymedia as well but there will probably be more later on.

The bastard really can't show his face anywhere.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 23 February 2005 05:42 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yet did you see The National last night, lagatta (or do you watch SRC?) It was all about how Bush was establishing a rapprochement with European leaders, and how Europe was "warming" to him... gawd, CBC makes me puke sometimes...

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 23 February 2005 05:56 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He didn't go to France at all; he only went to Germany in theory, sort of; and he's not going to Russia.

The last time he went to Britain, most of his appearances had to be severely contained.

No, he can't really show his face in Europe -- not where any Europeans could see him, anyway.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 23 February 2005 05:59 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's an article about the protest in Mainz. Link here
quote:
...Police said about 5 000 people turned out for the rally and parade through the streets of Mainz. Riot police in body armour kept a close watch, with a helicopter hovering overhead and officers passing out leaflets asking people to express their views peacefully.

The route kept the protesters well away from the city's Baroque palace where Bush met German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder. But it did take them past the home of a supporter who opened a window and began tossing baked pretzels to the marchers as they passed, rock music blaring from the apartment...



Interesting that lagatta's link says 12,000 [I guess, can't actually understand it].

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: Contrarian ]


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 23 February 2005 06:18 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It does - run it through babelfish or some other free translation software - it also said there were at least twice as many demonstrators as expected. That means people must have made the trip from Frankfurt as well, or that a LOT of people turned up after work and class from Mainz and Wiesbaden, in the middle of the week. And Der Spiegel is not a far-left source. Some other mainstream German sources also cite a figure considerably higher than 5000.

People in the whole area (very densely populated, and many people might live in one of the towns and go to work or school or another) were advised not to use their cars and take public transport - but much public transport (especially inter-town Schnellzugs - that is a commuter train) have been subject to delays or cancellations. It was a mess ... which I suspect annoyed even the more conservative Germans (who do like things to be on time, after all! )

I suspect part of the problem for the news reports were that the main demo didn't start until 5:30 pm - and if people were arriving from Frankfurt, Mannheim, etc, it would take them a while to show up...

It was cold and nasty by central Rhineland standards, by the way.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 23 February 2005 06:41 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It mentioned in my article that some high school there had had their classes cancelled for the Bush visit; I don't know if that would be because of politics or the logistics. I wonder how big a mess his security guys made; I recall after his visit to Britain that the Queen was said to be angry at the mess they made of her gardens.

Isn't that what the English kings and queens used to do; take their retinue to stay with some noble for a while and bankrupt him?

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: Contrarian ]


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4722

posted 23 February 2005 06:48 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That was Elizabeth Is famous technique for dealing with rebellious nobles. A visit from her would bankrupt you for at least 10-20 years thus making you totally useless for any plots
From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 23 February 2005 07:23 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Schools and many public service offices were closed because of the security and logistic nightmare, and a lot of businesses decided just to shut down for the day. Roads, bridges and waterways are closed (don't see how they can close down the Rhine!) "And the Rhine River, one of Germany's main transportation routes for heavy cargo, will also be blocked for any ship traffic during business hours Wednesday. On any given day, around 200 ships pass Mainz, transporting commodities across Germany and other European countries".

As skdadl said, Bush isn't REALLY visiting Germany - the visit to Mainz is like the FTAA summit in Québec City - it is the same kind of compact city centre - I'm sure much of it was rebuilt after the war, but not in the grim blocks of other parts of Germany, East and West. Moreover, Mainz is close to Strasbourg - the latter is just a bit further (down? up?) (south but upstream) on the Rhine. But Bush did his EU duty among the bureaucrats in Brussels - he sure as hell wouldn't address the European Parliament!

What a waste ... on top of it a reformed boozer so he won't even be tasting the white wines of the region...

Hope this link works - it is a stupid msn report - the ending is idiotic - but it gives a better background than most of the things I've seen in English. Probably there will be better reports from the Guardian etc tomorrow.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6980201/page/2/


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911

posted 23 February 2005 11:49 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hope the European people give the old bastard hell. Sounds like they are.
From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7050

posted 24 February 2005 12:30 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
These little wastes of time are only going to anger the European governments further. He isn't doing anything constructive and is still straining diplomatic ties to nations like Russia where, if he were a good politician and a human, would be attempting to rebuild friendships.
From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bubbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3787

posted 24 February 2005 12:38 AM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Crazy, 15,000 police and 12,000 demonstrators. Schroeder should have offered to meet Bush in Fallujah instead and handed him a shovel as his contribution to rebuilding Iraq.
From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 24 February 2005 12:46 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More about the BS Mainz goes through Link here.:
quote:
...But Bush and his backers, American and German, want to play it very safe, and this has become a nightmare for the people of Mainz. All air traffic to the nearby Frankfurt airport is being suspended for part of the day (today, Wednesday). Boat traffic on the Rhine will be suspended despite all economic losses involved. The autobahns surrounding the city and connecting it with the airport will all be closed to traffic.

That is still just not safe enough for this popular statesman and his giant entourage. Every manhole lid along the route has been soldered down tight. No terrorist rats will be tolerated this time. All mail boxes along the route have been carted away. Cars must not only be removed from along the route but also from garages of people living along the route. Windows must be shut and no one is allowed to stand on the balcony to wave. There won’t be much waving anyway...



From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 24 February 2005 04:22 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is this a law leftover from pre-war Germany?

"the police have issued severe warnings: Anti-Bush banners or slogans must not be visible anywhere along the route, and no "insulting" banners will be allowed anywhere. There’s a law to take care of that matter".

When living in Italy, I remember some weird Fascist laws still on the books that nobody had bothered to remove...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 24 February 2005 10:09 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The ironies are overwhelming, glaring, and yet the potentates and their minions can't see them.

This is the man who talks about little else but spreading democracy around the globe, and yet he can't go anywhere without an enormous armed retinue and without shutting down the normal lives of the locals entirely.

D'you think these guys ever stop to think how much they look like medieval tyrants?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911

posted 24 February 2005 10:16 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lagatta: its sickening to see the German government putting these measures into effect. This has got to be a new thing as I recall all manner of German protest signs at other US Presidential visits - remember Bitberg and Reagan?

Skdadl: Pure unrestricted power and hubris. They don't care what ordinary people think anymore. Vassals and serfs. They have the power, what are you going to do about it?

I know I sound redundant but this man embarasses and shames me to the core as a US citizen.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 24 February 2005 10:24 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
EA, never doubt that we have plenty of similar ironies here.

There is a particular columnist in the Grope and Flail, eg, named Michael Gee, who just leaves me shaking my head every time I read him. He keeps repeating and repeating that Dubya is taking democracy to the world, and all his arguments about everything are based on that assumption. He excoriates all critics for not caring about democracy.

I mean, it's simply mad, but that man gets a column several times a week in the most expensive media real estate in the country. I feel like Alice in Wonderland when I'm reading him -- and he's not unique.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 24 February 2005 10:30 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was one of those nasty damp-cold days, says a friend over there. "An oppressive ghost city" titles a local paper. The terribly cold day, oppressive measures and impact on daily life bring to mind a famous poem by Eugenio Montale, about Hitler's visit to Mussolini's Rome. (No, babblers, I'm not saying Bush is Hitler, agressive militarist though he is, nor that Schröder is Mussolini, however disappointed trade-unionists may be in him as a Social Democrat).

(No one is inculpable could also be translated as no one is without guilt).

HITLER SPRING
Nor her whom to look on the sun turns round...
(Dante(?) to Giovanni Querini)
   
Dense the albino cloud of lunatic moths
twirls round the fading lamps and on parapets,
spreading the ground with a sheet on which feet
screech as on sugar; now imminent summer frees
the night-time chill which has been held
in the secret quarries of the dead season,
in orchards slithering from Maiano to these sandbanks.
 
On the high street, a short time back, hell’s delegate zoomed by
surrounded by a ra-ra of mobsters; a mystic pit, aflame,
bannering crossed claws, grabbed and gulped him;
shop-fronts are shuttered up, poor
and inoffensive but armed, even they,
with guns and war-toys;
the butcher has barred up—he used to deck
baby goats’ heads with bright berries;
the ritual of gentle killers, still ignorant of blood,
is transmogrified into a filthy dance of torn wings,
lugworms on mud flats; the water goes on gnawing
its banks, and no one any more is inculpable.
 
All for nothing, then?—and the firework display
by St John’s Cathedral, which slowly whitened
the skyline, and the pledges, and the long goodbyes
strong as baptism in the mournful waiting
of the horde (but a gem streaked the air, scattering
on the ice and on your esplanade beaches,
Tobias’ angels, the seven, the seed
of the future) and the heliotropes born
from your hands—all burnt and sucked dry
by a pollen which hisses like fire
sharp as driving snow...
 
Oh the wounded
springtime is still holiday if it freezes
this death to death ! Look up again,
Clizia, it is your fate, you
who, changed, keep love unchanged,
until the blind sun which you carry in you
is dazzled in the Other and destroyed
in Him for everyone. Perhaps the sirens, the bells
which welcome the monsters at the time
of their sick Halloween are already mixing
with the sounds that, loosed from heaven, descends, conquers—
with the breathing of a dawn which tomorrow for all
will break again, white but with no wings
of horror, over the south’s arid gulches.
  
(translated by Alan Marshfield)                            


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 24 February 2005 10:34 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
On the high street, a short time back, hell’s delegate zoomed by
surrounded by a ra-ra of mobsters; a mystic pit, aflame,
bannering crossed claws, grabbed and gulped him;

Stunning.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 24 February 2005 01:57 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for sharing that poem, lagatta.

quote:
Michael Gee, who just leaves me shaking my head every time I read him

Marcus Gee prefers to be addressed as "Candide." It is the best of all possible nicknames for him.


From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 24 February 2005 02:27 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marcus, he's a Marcus. Of course. How could I get his name wrong. I hope he isn't wounded or anything.

Thanks, swallow.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 24 February 2005 02:35 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you, lagatta. That was awesome.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 24 February 2005 02:53 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is it with Gee? That article yesterday made it sound as though the Left had been demanding the US bomb the shit out of the world in the name of democracy for ages, and now we're complaining when they do so. Hello? We never wanted the US to impose democracy or any such thing; only recognize and not interfere with democratic movements. American intervention has led to the death of those movements, which was the plan all along, and now it is ready to impose its own will under the name of the international democracy it killed.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911

posted 25 February 2005 04:56 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
web pageBuzzFlash GOP Hypocrite of the Week: George W. Bush

quote:
Although it's not that he's really for democracy abroad. In Germany for instance, a town meeting was canceled by the White House because the German government insisted that questions not be scripted and audience members not be pre-selected by the White House.

And as Bush traveled through Germany, he was careful not to rub shoulders with actual residents of Europe. A BBC report noted that as Bush sped along in his motorcade, it was "the strangest sight. There is nobody here. They've all been cleared away. It's almost totalitarian in its reach and efficiency: the motorways are closed, whole towns we pass on the way from Frankfurt airport have been cleared of people.

"Our German colleagues say everyone on the motorcade route was told to stay indoors. The result may be more secure but it is eerie nonetheless - a political meeting without any public involvement. Freedom on the march but no-one free to see it."

Yes, democracy works so well when there are no people to participate in it!

As for democracy at home, two Chicago Tribune reporters recently dared to break the mainstream media silence on how a male prostitute ended up with White House press credentials even before his so-called news service existed. Clarence Page noted:

"We have grown accustomed to those pre-screened rent-a-crowd 'Ask President Bush' town-hall-style meetings during last year's campaign and during this year's effort by Bush to promote his proposed Social Security changes.

But I thought the last straw was the unprecedented herding of reporters covering this year's inaugural balls into pens from which they could only venture to interview ball guests if they were escorted by 'minders' in the fashion of Saddam Hussein's Iraq."

Meanwhile, Page's long-time honcho Tribune colleague, Charles Madigan, recalled how he attended a Michigan rally for Bush last year and was, as a reporter, denied the right to sit or talk to any attendee without a White House-designated handler present. So Madigan believes that the White House knew about the male hooker seated in the White House press room, the ringer whom they credentialed.

Why, Madigan asks himself? "Because I have dealt with these people. They are the most diligent people on earth when it comes to finding out where genuine reporters are and what they are doing."



From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 25 February 2005 05:13 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's the reaction to Bush scolding Putin in public yesterday? I saw one report written beforehand, saying that the realistic foreign affairs guys who are trying to repair things were biting their nails; has Bush screwed himself, or is the media silent on the whole thing? I don't much like Putin, but I don't blame him for being pissed at Bush.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca