There it is, clear as day under, Indications. "Diane 35 should not be prescribed solely for it's contraceptive properties" There are also a couple of pages of warnings, precautions, and contra-indications.

I have to wonder how many women were put on anti-depressant meds instead of taken off the damned pill...

I don't want to minimise the psychological harm caused by severe acne among teenagers and young adults. Remember even a bit of mild teenage acne and oily skin made me feel dirty. (A tendency to oily skin gets great by your 40s, by the way - no wrinkles). But that is a horrible rate of blood clotting!

I remember seeing the ads for Diane 35 in magazines. And in them it claimed to not only be a birth control, but also "clear up your skin". A friend of mine does take this stuff, for exactly that reason. She has adult acne and was delighted to find a pill that would control that and keep her child-free. She's been on every medication know to humans to clear up her acne, but this one works the best.

I'd be as wary of a male bc pill, too. He doesn't feel right about me taking a medication with serious side effects, and I wouldn't feel right about asking him to do it, either.

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What would you suggest then, Zoot?

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Put a helmet on that soldier!!!

Seriously, properly used, condoms (not diaphragms, they're harder to use and easier to make mistakes with) are darned effective. I've used them for a long time, and have had only one oops due to user error, not the condom itself. I have friends (a married couple) who have used 'em for over 25 years without a glitch.

It's also pretty easy to screw up taking the pill. Forget one, and that could be enough. At least when the condom doesn't work, you know immediately and can get a morning-after pill. Not optimal, but at least you're not exposing yourself to unnecessary hormones on a constant basis.

Or, if one is sure that kids are never going to be welcome, or you're done having kids, go get the snip! Women can still get a tubal, and the big V is pretty easy and effective for a man.

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...but it is sort of like talking to someone in the next room ...

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What I'm saying is, condoms on, condoms off (yes, I have had sex without a condom... ), it's all good.

And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, there are other options as far as birth control itself is concerned, just to set aside the STD issue for the time being. Tubal ligation is very effective and permanent for women who are resolved that children are not, or no longer are, desired. It is also no longer major surgery. Vasectomies are very effective for men as well.

In my own situation, I am undecided as to whether I will want another child, and we plan to wait until I hit 40 before availing ourselves of one of the two above options. In the meantime, I'd rather deal with the inconvenience of a condom than the hell of screaming uncontrollably at my spouse and children for no apparent reason, then weeping for hours because I feel so out of control.

[ 14 January 2003: Message edited by: Zoot Capri ]

Guess to my mind it is something unpleasant, like "dating" that one must go through nowadays until one is reasonably sure of one's partner. I couldn't imagine it in a serious relationship, but people are different.

And as for the pill, oh yes, depression city. I have been on the pill, the pill and an antidepressant, and now I am on antidepressants alone and trying to get off them. No fun.

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Not nearly as good. Of course, unless you had a VERY high accident rate, of course you must have had unbarriered sex. (When I did get pregnant once, it was due to a burst condom.)

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Ummmm, yes, one can have absolutely fantastic sex with a condom. Even up to the standards of an artistic soul like me.

Honestly, it's not the condom that "depoeticizes" the encounter, but how one deals with the condom. Creativity! Creativity!

And yeah, having had the second baby quite on purpose, of course we've had unbarriered sex... And pregnancy (two of 'em in my case) means you don't need a barrier for the duration.

An additional point -- if you have a condom break, nowadays one can do something about it, ie: go get the morning-after pill. I believe I mentioned this. As far as I'm concerned, this makes the condom even less risky because oopses are more readily apparent than with other methods.

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Ummmm, yes, one can have absolutely fantastic sex with a condom. Even up to the standards of an artistic soul like me.

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One of my daughters is about to start taking this very medication. My ex and her handled it with a dermatologist.

My only concern, initially, was that the dermatologist was of course aware of what possible interactions might occur between this medication and her current medication for epilepsy. I was assured that this checked out okay.

I wasn't told about the thrombosis issue, and I haven't had a chance to ask if this was explained to my daughter.

Be that as it may, while my daughter's acne isn't what I'd call severe, it is in her mind. Saddled already with an adolescence coming to grips with being different due to epilepsy, it's hard to just sit back and tell her not to worry about acne when there's a medication that seems to be very effective.

I did some reading last night on line concerning Dianne 35. I'm not frightened about the thrombosis. Considering that my daughter is in excellent physical shape, doesn't smoke of course, and that she'll be on it for probably less than a year (it seems to take four to six cycles to clear the acne, and three post clearance cycles to "cure") it doesn't seem too dangerous.

Of some concern is the impact of the hormones on her epilepsy. Sometimes her periods effect her epilepsy and this may be tied to hormonal levels. Or not. It could be that her periods effect her sleep, which is a sure trigger for her petite mals which can lead to grand mals sometimes.

Dianne 35 does have some interactions with some epilepsy medications. This isn't a concern at this time as the interactions include medications of a type she does not use, and in any case it's the epilepsy medications that prevent the Dianne 35 from working and not the other way around.

Interestingly, some of the sites I visited on line were of a comercial nature, and yes, some pushed Dianne 35 as a birth control pill more than an acne medication.

The whole idea behind taking the pill bothers me. I suppose birth control is a very personal thing and every woman ( unfortunately it is not so often the man who has to worry that much still ) has to make her own decision for what is best for her.

Wasn't the pill supposed to liberate us? It did to some extent but it didn't make things less scary!!

At the time, Toronto was running a study by making the MAP (Morning After Pill) available at pharmacies without prescription. The study has since ended.

I ended up taking the MAP twice in one month.

Symptoms? Aggravation, uncontrollable crying, strange behaviour (moonlight skinny dipping in Lake Ontario by an otherwise almost sane individual), uncontrollable shivering (this was in the summer, which was too damn jungle to believe) and inability to heal properly. Black rings under my eyes, even if I slept 12 hours. Outrageous depression.

The same symptoms that I get from the BCP, except more so. I lasted four days on the pill before I was ready to fall on my own sword.

There are condoms that are good, and others that are not so good. If you're in a secure relationship and not worried about STDs, you can try Natural Lamb, which I've never had a problem with as far as breakage is concerned and they're, um, well, nicer than latex. Ultra thin seem to break more often, from what I've heard from others, although I have no actual hard data on which to back it up.

What do you gals think of contraceptive sponges?

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What do you gals think of contraceptive sponges?

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Spermicides tend to give me a rash, but I might give it a try otherwise. Unfortunately, risking a rash in that region is kind of a detriment...

Plus, the effectiveness thing is a bit high for my comfort.

[ 15 January 2003: Message edited by: Zoot Capri ]

Pretty much every negative symptom that comes from birth control pills, I got it....

Condoms: break, slip off...depends on the kind, of course. Not intrinsically that bad. The female condom is...well, some people like it, but most don't, and it ain't cheap.
Spermicide: icky, not that effective.
Sponge: ditto. Spermicidal stuff is okay with condoms if you can handle the ick.
Diaphragm/cervical cap: not that easy to get in, spermicidal ick factor, has to be left in to fester for several hours after sex.
Pill: various health risks. For me it was depression. Bad depression. No fun. Can mess with your sex drive, too.
Depo (shot): Basically three months' worth of pills in injection form. If that doesn't send you screaming from the room, well, Idunno. Some people swear by it, others have periods for three months, or gain huge amounts of weight, or other fun stuff.
Rhythm/"fertility awareness": Can be great, can fail miserably; personally I'd rather have something between me and "oh shit, I thought it was a safe day."
IUD: Scares people. Has to be inserted by a doctor in a not-terribly-pleasant manner. Causes bad, bad cramps, especially in the first few months. No one is 100% sure how it works, although it definitely does. Minor risk of infection, which turns into major scary risk if you get an STD. Some doctors won't insert it if you're under 25 or haven't had a baby.

Am I missing anything?

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Gee Smith, you make a great case against intercourse.

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Dude, if I were anti-intercourse, would I have bothered to try so much of this stuff?

Seriously, I love my IUD. And I can't wait until I'm finished having babies so I can make my partner get the snip.

As for Depo...I've heard that progesterone (Depo is artificial progesterone) is fed to cattle to make them gain weight. Make of that what you will.

[ 15 January 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]

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As for Depo...I've heard that progesterone (Depo is artificial progesterone) is fed to cattle to make them gain weight. Make of that what you will.

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But for people like you and me, who were fine to begin with, it often causes fuck-ups.

Maybe I'm just fussy, but I cannot stand condoms and would prefer to not use them. Of course, being single, this is not the wisest course of action. But I've never had one break - just the plain old Trojans have worked for me for years.

I've tried sponges - hated them. I've tried the foams incredibly messy. A diaphram seemed tricky to me so I passed on trying it. IUD - well I like the idea, but hated the idea of getting it replaced every year. Though there is a new one coming out that is good for 5 years... that I'm interested in. Apparently it also stops your period too. I'm all for that. Deprovera... I know a few women on that, they love it. Though the hassle of getting a shot in the ass or arm every three months kinda sucks.

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IUD - well I like the idea, but hated the idea of getting it replaced every year. Though there is a new one coming out that is good for 5 years... that I'm interested in. Apparently it also stops your period too. I'm all for that.

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I wonder how many women (or men!) are even aware of these? My wife has been on the pill for 13 years or so, and so far no failures, but she also knows that a sleeping pill, many antibiotics, some antihistamines, etc., are all it takes to make us a happy threesome.

"Dad, how come I have such a funny name?"

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I think it would be great if vasectomies were less painful for men and more reversable. Anything that reduces a woman's already huge reproductive responsibility is just fine by me, so long as it's effective and practical.

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As far as I can see regarding the practical aspect from a womens point of view, instead of lugging around pills and condoms all the time, you have to lug around the same guy all the time.

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Anyways in my teens I met too many young girls who got pregnant while on the pill. And not all of them on antibiotics at the time. They don't seem to work that well if one actually has sex while on them.

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As far as I can see regarding the practical aspect from a womens point of view, instead of lugging around pills and condoms all the time, you have to lug around the same guy all the time.

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Depro Provara was a good idea - always prepared - if only one of the side-effects to taking it wasn't suicide!