Many have criticized Stronach for being just a puppet of her father’s…. have the media and Canadians in general have not evolved enough to even recognize a woman on her merit or lack of merit instead of associating her with a man?

everyone makes reference to his father, that dubya is a puppet of his father, or bush 2 is a puppet of his handlers, etc.

I don't buy it.

They talk about her father because she has a pretend job while he runs the company. And if you follow business news you'll realize that the merits and abilities of heirs in family-run businesses is a big topic -- and it's usually been about male heirs.

There is almost always sexist commentary about women because they are women -- but it's hard to make the case when the woman in question truly does not belong in her job by any stretch of the imagination.

[ 22 January 2004: Message edited by: Newbie ]

We actually know that GWB is a puppet with a fake job. It's an established fact.

If Belinda were a Bob or a Barry, for sure we'd hold his resume as suspect, and decry the obvious nepotism that led to his position in the strongest of terms, but I highly doubt that we'd treat Barry Stronach with the kind of sexist, diminutive drivel that we have with Belinda, even if there were the kind of gender-specific sexist terms for men that there were for women. Which there aren't, really. Which says alot more in and of itself.

There are lots of ways to call attention to Ms. Stronach's position of privilege and her very disagreeable politics without referring to her as "daddy's little girl" and "a rich bitch with too much jewellery". So why have some people chosen these particular terms of reference? Why do the same people feel the need to defend their use?

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Originally posted by Skye88:
I think that if Belinda Stronach receives sexist coverage in the media it is because she invites it. She herself has made silly references in her speeches about stereotypical women's roles in order to soften and censor anything that might otherwise be perceived as feminist in nature. ie.. ‘Baking a bigger economic pie?’ She has also romanticized family values and motherhood and has clearly welcomed her billionare father’s participation in her campaign in order to lend male legitimacy. I really don’t feel it worth the effort to defend a woman like this.

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After reading the first few words, I thought that your post was going to be full of blaming the victim... But you made some solid points Skye.

(However, I really doubt that BS is going to have anything even remotely feminist in her platform)

Keep in mind, though, that there's a whole world of difference between "defending" B.S., and calling supposedly 'progressive' men in the movement on their sexist BS!

Let's keep the critiques of the sexist comments coming, regardless of who the sexist comments were aimed at - Judy Rebic or Belinda S, sexist comments shouldn't be tolerated here or anywhere.

[ 22 January 2004: Message edited by: terra1st ]

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Originally posted by Rebecca West:
Because it's still okay to think of women in these terms, and it's especially okay to think of women in these terms when you despise them.

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Funny, I despise you because I think YOU are rather grotesquely sexist and yet I don't think of or refer to you in sexist terms. But then again, I don't despise women, I despise YOU. You do understand the difference, don't you?
You've shown little evidence you're capable of distinguishing between individual women and womankind.

If you want to pretend that we don't know about Stronach record of non-accomplishment, that's fine. Some of us have actually heard of Magna and Stronach before the last couple of weeks.

You'd be a whole lot more credible if you'd separate the two issues. For that matter, you'd be a lot more credible if you could learn to treat people as individuals.

Should Stronach be called sexist names? No. Period. End of discusssion.

Should we give her some kind of special dispensation from being dissed as a person of privilege who has accomplished nothing but fluff throughout her life?

That said, Newbie, "despise" is a rather strong word for another babbler with whom you disagree. I disagree with you very strongly about Québec - and about flag-waving of any kind - but I certainly don't despise you.

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Originally posted by Newbie:

Should we give her some kind of special dispensation from being dissed as a person of privilege who has accomplished nothing but fluff throughout her life?

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Surely being a director of the United States Chamber of Commerce counts as a serious accomplishment? I'm sure that they don't let just anyone be a director of a COC?

Oh, and Newbie.. I've asked you to address this in three different threads now, and you keep avoiding it - why?

And why the venom when people are challenged for sexist behavior?

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Originally posted by Newbie:

Funny, I despise you because I think YOU are rather grotesquely sexist and yet I don't think of or refer to you in sexist terms. But then again, I don't despise women, I despise YOU. You do understand the difference, don't you?
You've shown little evidence you're capable of distinguishing between individual women and womankind..

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Should Stronach be called sexist names? No. Period. End of discusssion.

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Should we give her some kind of special dispensation from being dissed as a person of privilege who has accomplished nothing but fluff throughout her life?

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Belinda has invited such criticism by her own claim to be a typical working mum. Don't you, as a hard-working mum without nannies and maids, find that offensive, Rebecca?

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I happen to be of the opinion that our character can often be measured not by how we treat our friends, but by how we treat our enemies. A woman shouldn't have to walk the feminist talk in order to be free of sexism. Does Belinda Stronach exploit those very aspects of herself that invite sexist comments? Ayup, and it's pretty nauseating to watch. Does that make it okay to treat her in a sexist manner? It does not.

[ 22 January 2004: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]

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I happen to be of the opinion that our character can often be measured not by how we treat our friends, but by how we treat our enemies.

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Magna is "run like a partnership," with Ms. Stronach as CEO backed by executive vice-chairmen Siegfried Wolf and Fred Gingl, Mr. Stronach said in a telephone interview from Baltimore, where the company opened a technical training centre yesterday.

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Another Bay Street observer agreed that Magna has changed a great deal since 1998 when Ms. Stronach was a vice-president.

"The structure they put in place with Fred [Gingl] and Ziggy [Wolf]. They're the two pillars supporting her."

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If Stronach were a man, would there be as much coverage of the father’s involvement in the campaign?

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Originally posted by lagatta:
Well, there is the idea that different social classes have different, and often contradictory, interests. Perhaps "class adversary" (as in: adversary at the bargaining table) would seem a more dispassionate term.

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Originally posted by Skye88:
I think that if Belinda Stronach receives sexist coverage in the media it is because she invites it. She herself has made silly references in her speeches about stereotypical women's roles in order to soften and censor anything that might otherwise be perceived as feminist in nature. ie.. ‘Baking a bigger economic pie?’ She has also romanticized family values and motherhood and has clearly welcomed her billionare father’s participation in her campaign in order to lend male legitimacy.

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Is she really inviting these comments or is it that we live in a world where women have to define their femininity and their power to legitimize themselves as a political candidate?

Or maybe she is the type of woman who does bake pies. We don’t know. Sure she is a CEO and does not have a lot of time in her personal life, but maybe she likes to bake pies with her kids on the weekends as quality time with her kids. I know a ton of working moms who bake goodies for their kids. I just prefer her to be criticized for her platform and her past failures/successes.

And maybe she IS good at her job despite the fact that she got it because of her father. Magna has not fallen completely a part under her leadership. Just because she doesn’t have a degree in something doesn’t mean she cannot do the job. There have been many successful union bosses and presidents who have never had a high school diploma. Maybe she is a fast learner.