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Author Topic: Daddy's Little Girl
Bee's Knees
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posted 22 January 2004 06:24 AM      Profile for Bee's Knees     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is what I find most interesting with the Conservative leadership race, the constant reference of Belinda Stronachís association to her father. If Stronach were a man, would there be as much coverage of the fatherís involvement in the campaign?

Many have criticized Stronach for being just a puppet of her fatherísÖ. have the media and Canadians in general have not evolved enough to even recognize a woman on her merit or lack of merit instead of associating her with a man?

Iím sure Harper and Clement both had fathersÖ. Wait, thatís not true, they came from pods. That explains why the media are obsessed with the family connection.


From: Funkytown | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
terra1st
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posted 22 January 2004 10:15 AM      Profile for terra1st     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
you need to look no further than dubya.

everyone makes reference to his father, that dubya is a puppet of his father, or bush 2 is a puppet of his handlers, etc.

I don't buy it.

However, everyone is making sexist comments about her - and that's not something men get often (perhaps clinton, but he's a special case).


From: saskatoon | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 22 January 2004 10:19 AM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If Stronach were a similar man, yes, there ABSOLUTELY would be the same coverage.

They talk about her father because she has a pretend job while he runs the company. And if you follow business news you'll realize that the merits and abilities of heirs in family-run businesses is a big topic -- and it's usually been about male heirs.

There is almost always sexist commentary about women because they are women -- but it's hard to make the case when the woman in question truly does not belong in her job by any stretch of the imagination.

[ 22 January 2004: Message edited by: Newbie ]


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 22 January 2004 10:52 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The difference between George W. and Belinda Stronach is that we make the assumption that Stronach's resume is all fluff and that she's a puppet of her father with a fake job at Magna.

We actually know that GWB is a puppet with a fake job. It's an established fact.

If Belinda were a Bob or a Barry, for sure we'd hold his resume as suspect, and decry the obvious nepotism that led to his position in the strongest of terms, but I highly doubt that we'd treat Barry Stronach with the kind of sexist, diminutive drivel that we have with Belinda, even if there were the kind of gender-specific sexist terms for men that there were for women. Which there aren't, really. Which says alot more in and of itself.

There are lots of ways to call attention to Ms. Stronach's position of privilege and her very disagreeable politics without referring to her as "daddy's little girl" and "a rich bitch with too much jewellery". So why have some people chosen these particular terms of reference? Why do the same people feel the need to defend their use?

Because it's still okay to think of women in these terms, and it's especially okay to think of women in these terms when you despise them.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Skye
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posted 22 January 2004 11:01 AM      Profile for Skye     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that if Belinda Stronach receives sexist coverage in the media it is because she invites it. She herself has made silly references in her speeches about stereotypical women's roles in order to soften and censor anything that might otherwise be perceived as feminist in nature. ie.. ĎBaking a bigger economic pie?í She has also romanticized family values and motherhood and has clearly welcomed her billionare fatherís participation in her campaign in order to lend male legitimacy. I really donít feel it worth the effort to defend a woman like this.
From: where "labor omnia vincit" is the state motto | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
terra1st
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posted 22 January 2004 11:16 AM      Profile for terra1st     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Skye88:
I think that if Belinda Stronach receives sexist coverage in the media it is because she invites it. She herself has made silly references in her speeches about stereotypical women's roles in order to soften and censor anything that might otherwise be perceived as feminist in nature. ie.. ĎBaking a bigger economic pie?í She has also romanticized family values and motherhood and has clearly welcomed her billionare fatherís participation in her campaign in order to lend male legitimacy. I really donít feel it worth the effort to defend a woman like this.

After reading the first few words, I thought that your post was going to be full of blaming the victim... But you made some solid points Skye.

(However, I really doubt that BS is going to have anything even remotely feminist in her platform)

Keep in mind, though, that there's a whole world of difference between "defending" B.S., and calling supposedly 'progressive' men in the movement on their sexist BS!

Let's keep the critiques of the sexist comments coming, regardless of who the sexist comments were aimed at - Judy Rebic or Belinda S, sexist comments shouldn't be tolerated here or anywhere.

[ 22 January 2004: Message edited by: terra1st ]


From: saskatoon | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 22 January 2004 11:28 AM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rebecca West:
Because it's still okay to think of women in these terms, and it's especially okay to think of women in these terms when you despise them.

Funny, I despise you because I think YOU are rather grotesquely sexist and yet I don't think of or refer to you in sexist terms. But then again, I don't despise women, I despise YOU. You do understand the difference, don't you?
You've shown little evidence you're capable of distinguishing between individual women and womankind.

If you want to pretend that we don't know about Stronach record of non-accomplishment, that's fine. Some of us have actually heard of Magna and Stronach before the last couple of weeks.

You'd be a whole lot more credible if you'd separate the two issues. For that matter, you'd be a lot more credible if you could learn to treat people as individuals.

Should Stronach be called sexist names? No. Period. End of discusssion.

Should we give her some kind of special dispensation from being dissed as a person of privilege who has accomplished nothing but fluff throughout her life?

Absolutely not. To do so would be sexist.


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 22 January 2004 11:40 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Belinda has invited such criticism by her own claim to be a typical working mum. Don't you, as a hard-working mum without nannies and maids, find that offensive, Rebecca?

That said, Newbie, "despise" is a rather strong word for another babbler with whom you disagree. I disagree with you very strongly about Quťbec - and about flag-waving of any kind - but I certainly don't despise you.

Can't think of any babblers I despise except the neo-nazi, racist, anti-semitic, homophobic etc. trolls, and they always get kicked off soon enough.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
terra1st
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posted 22 January 2004 11:48 AM      Profile for terra1st     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie:

Should we give her some kind of special dispensation from being dissed as a person of privilege who has accomplished nothing but fluff throughout her life?

Surely being a director of the United States Chamber of Commerce counts as a serious accomplishment? I'm sure that they don't let just anyone be a director of a COC?

Oh, and Newbie.. I've asked you to address this in three different threads now, and you keep avoiding it - why?

And why the venom when people are challenged for sexist behavior?

Challenging sexism (and - god forbid - linking issues) is surely equally important as working for Same Sex Marriage.


From: saskatoon | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 22 January 2004 12:16 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie:

Funny, I despise you because I think YOU are rather grotesquely sexist and yet I don't think of or refer to you in sexist terms. But then again, I don't despise women, I despise YOU. You do understand the difference, don't you?
You've shown little evidence you're capable of distinguishing between individual women and womankind..


By all means, despise away.

quote:
Should Stronach be called sexist names? No. Period. End of discusssion.
Which is precisely my point.

quote:
Should we give her some kind of special dispensation from being dissed as a person of privilege who has accomplished nothing but fluff throughout her life?
Not at all. There's plenty to criticize her about.
quote:
Belinda has invited such criticism by her own claim to be a typical working mum. Don't you, as a hard-working mum without nannies and maids, find that offensive, Rebecca?
I find that incredibly offensive. It's like Brian Mulroney claiming to be a working stiff because he once had a summer job driving a truck. Barf. Actually, I find almost everything about Belinda Stronach offensive in the extreme. She is deserving of the harshest of criticism. But sexist labels? No way.

I happen to be of the opinion that our character can often be measured not by how we treat our friends, but by how we treat our enemies. A woman shouldn't have to walk the feminist talk in order to be free of sexism. Does Belinda Stronach exploit those very aspects of herself that invite sexist comments? Ayup, and it's pretty nauseating to watch. Does that make it okay to treat her in a sexist manner? It does not.

[ 22 January 2004: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 22 January 2004 12:48 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I seem to recall an article in the business press, perhaps a year ago or so, which claimed that Belinda Stronach was actually not performing the duties which her title suggested she was.

The claim was that it was a pretence only that she was running Magna. So, I thought for sure someone in the large press would make reference to it. But I have seen nothing. Does anyone remember where this article appeared?


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 22 January 2004 01:00 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I happen to be of the opinion that our character can often be measured not by how we treat our friends, but by how we treat our enemies.
Wise words. A related measure of character, in my opinion, is who, how many, and how fast, we assign enemy status in the first place.

From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 22 January 2004 01:12 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Enemy" is a pretty strong word. I have a list of public figures I consider "ideological enemies" (scary dangerous people like George Bush et al, Paul Martin, and probably Belinda Stronach if she ever achieves anything like real political power) but no personal ones. Just a bunch of people I disagree with from time to time.
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 22 January 2004 01:15 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Couldn't find the article Jeff mentioned, but these quotes tend to support that theory

quote:
Magna is "run like a partnership," with Ms. Stronach as CEO backed by executive vice-chairmen Siegfried Wolf and Fred Gingl, Mr. Stronach said in a telephone interview from Baltimore, where the company opened a technical training centre yesterday.

quote:
Another Bay Street observer agreed that Magna has changed a great deal since 1998 when Ms. Stronach was a vice-president.

"The structure they put in place with Fred [Gingl] and Ziggy [Wolf]. They're the two pillars supporting her."


The quotes are from aGlobe Advisor article from last week, indicating that Frank would take over temporarily if Belinda entered politics.


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 22 January 2004 01:18 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, there is the idea that different social classes have different, and often contradictory, interests. Perhaps "class adversary" (as in: adversary at the bargaining table) would seem a more dispassionate term.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 22 January 2004 01:45 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is interesting -- even a little refreshing -- that Frank also has a son (younger than Belinda), but obviously chose to pass on his business empire to his daughter instead. Apparently, Andrew Stronach's involvement in the family business is on the racehorse breeding side, although Roy MacGregor mentioned that he had apprenticed as a tool and die maker. Clearly, he's not suffering financially, as he managed to scrape together $2500 (the maximum amount allowable) to donate to John Tory's campaign.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 22 January 2004 01:59 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
If Stronach were a man, would there be as much coverage of the father’s involvement in the campaign?

I dunno. I recal Peter McKay's multigenerational connections to the PC party being the subject of a CBC mini-doc on the National at least twice when he announced he was running for their leadership. And I recall his dad was involved in his campaign.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 22 January 2004 02:25 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Well, there is the idea that different social classes have different, and often contradictory, interests. Perhaps "class adversary" (as in: adversary at the bargaining table) would seem a more dispassionate term.
Yes, adversary is a better word than enemy, I think.

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bee's Knees
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posted 23 January 2004 06:43 AM      Profile for Bee's Knees     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Skye88:
I think that if Belinda Stronach receives sexist coverage in the media it is because she invites it. She herself has made silly references in her speeches about stereotypical women's roles in order to soften and censor anything that might otherwise be perceived as feminist in nature. ie.. ĎBaking a bigger economic pie?í She has also romanticized family values and motherhood and has clearly welcomed her billionare fatherís participation in her campaign in order to lend male legitimacy.

Is she really inviting these comments or is it that we live in a world where women have to define their femininity and their power to legitimize themselves as a political candidate?

Or maybe she is the type of woman who does bake pies. We donít know. Sure she is a CEO and does not have a lot of time in her personal life, but maybe she likes to bake pies with her kids on the weekends as quality time with her kids. I know a ton of working moms who bake goodies for their kids. I just prefer her to be criticized for her platform and her past failures/successes.

And maybe she IS good at her job despite the fact that she got it because of her father. Magna has not fallen completely a part under her leadership. Just because she doesnít have a degree in something doesnít mean she cannot do the job. There have been many successful union bosses and presidents who have never had a high school diploma. Maybe she is a fast learner.

I donít like the Conservative Party at all, but I donít like the sexist attacks on any women. It is tough enough for women to enter politics as it is, so I am glad to see that the Conservatives at least have a woman running for their top spot.


From: Funkytown | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
spatrioter
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posted 23 January 2004 08:19 AM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This CTV story criticizes the national media for being sexist in the way they deal with Belinda Stronach on the campaign trail.
From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged

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