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Topic: War crimes tribunal open in Sierra Leone

swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 11 March 2004 04:14 PM

A mixed UN-Sierra Leone tribunal on war crimes has opened. The most prominent person to be indicted is former Liberian president Charles Taylor, but both pro and anti-government leaders face charges.

Click.

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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 11 March 2004 10:02 PM

Well you see Swallow... etc. etc. etc.

Followed by two or three more paragraphs labourious argumentation and then finally this:

These courts will never be legitimate in my eyes until the US goverment agree to sign onto the ICC.

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swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 12 March 2004 01:31 PM

I didn't post this for an argument, just thought that some people might be interested in what's happening in a different court. Note for instance that's it's an attempt to meld the principle opf sovereignty with the principle of international jurisdiction, which in some ways responds to the criticisms made of the Hague tribunal.

Oh, and to play my usual broken record: the ICC has no jurisdiction on crimes committed before it was created. So if all we do is press for the ICC to be signed by everyone, nothing happens in Sierra Leone. Which i personally think is a country that has been ignored quite enough already.

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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 12 March 2004 04:01 PM

I did not post my post for an argument either. In fact I explicitely did not make an arguement, only stated its moral thesis.

As much as anything I posted to affirm that your post had been read, and little Sierra Leone was not forgotten.

But! Now that you have mentioned that the ICC has no retroactive jurisdiction, I will note that has no bearing on my moral thesis as the ICC does not have jurisdiction at all in the case of the USA (which has stated its explcit opposition to the ICC), a chief sponsor of the criminal process being enacted in Sierra Leone, even today.

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swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 13 March 2004 03:53 PM

You'll have to forgive me for being bad-tempered about all this, Cueball dear.

You see, several years ago a good and decent man i knew was hacked to death in his church while he pleaded for pro-Indonesia militia gangs to spare the lives of his parishioners.

Now, the Indoneiassan soldiers directly responsible for this have been acquitted by the courts of their own country, becuase the reputation of the Indonesian army is all that matters to them. Others responsible for mass murder are going on to positions of responsibility where they will certainly kill more innocents.

Your moral thesis, it seems to me, also implies: none of this matters. Unless Americans are held accountable, no one should be.

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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 13 March 2004 04:59 PM

Right. I would rather cut the puppet masters strings than burn the puppets. Because you and I know that the Indonesian invasion of East Timor was green lighted by the USA.

The principal of ad-hoc trials is manifestly unjust, because it allows for the trial of a specific set of criminals, while another group of criminals hides under the skirts of their protectors. Those protectors are those whom decide who gets tried for what.

Punch gets burned Judy goes free (or is forced to apologize) while the puppet master empties the till into his pockets.

Indonesia's ongoing rejection of the ICC is almost entirely based in the same arguements as US arguments against the ICC, and even site US rejection of the ICC in those arguements. "So, others responsible for mass murder are going on to positions of responsibility where they will certainly kill more innocents," is exactly true.

An interesting side note is that Bush administration has preassured Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Cambodia, East Timor, India, Maldives, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Thailand, into bi-lateral impunity agreements (BIA's), that exempt US passport holders from being tried for crimes the ICC has been empowered to hear. Notice: US passport holders, not just US servicemen, so CIA people are also exempt and, of course, some readers of Soldier of Fortune magazine.

It would be very difficult for countries like indonesia to continue to resist ratifying the ICC if the United States did so.

Did you see that the Canadian police have arrested a former Aristide ally on possible 'war crimes' charges. Where is 'Baby Doc' living now?

[ 13 March 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

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