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Author Topic: Deep cuts in Germany
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 18 October 2003 04:55 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Agenda 2010" will cut many of the most important social measures in Germany: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3200704.stm
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
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posted 18 October 2003 05:03 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow. That could affect my grandparents - they both receive old age pensions from Germany.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 18 October 2003 05:12 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, I doubt that, unless they are under 67, which I doubt very much. The pension cuts won't be retroactive - they just want to make workers now in the labour force work longer.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3838

posted 18 October 2003 05:21 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The disease of neo-conservatism spreads from the English-speaking world to continental Europe.

If all goes well, in a few years Germany should reap all the wondrous results we have: lower wages, longer working hours, a shrivelled social safety net, huge numbers of homeless people, a crumbling infrastrucure, and, best of all, a massive and ever-widening gap between ultra-rich Germans and everybody else.

Wunderbar! I'm already quivering with anticipation.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 18 October 2003 05:23 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are they creating the same sorts of policies in the Netherlands and Scandinavia?
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 18 October 2003 05:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I thought it said something about freezing the benefits until 2005. That could definitely affect them.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245

posted 18 October 2003 06:07 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The German pension scheme is what's commonly called a "paygo" system ("Pay as you go"). In other words, current pension contributions (or taxes if those are inadequate) pay for current pension benefits. This works well if the number of workers remains relatively steady or increases and people retire at relatively old ages. [When Bismark originally set up the German retirement system it was to get rid of the "old" aristocracy that was still cluttering up the civil service. Besides, there weren't many of them since 65 was truly a ripe old age.]

The problem (or at least one of the problems) faced by Germany is changing demographics. Fewer people are entering the work force than are leaving it. This means that there is an ever shrinking base of currently employed to pay for the currently retired.

quote:
The current ratio of three employees for every pensioner for example is projected to fall to one-to-one by 2030.

That last statement means that, by 2030, every worker will, on the average, have to fund one retiree as well as pay taxes, feed their families, etc. Without some sort of major restructuring this isn't sustainable.

Add to that the various EU directives on the matter and something has to give.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 18 October 2003 06:08 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle, I didn't see that point - yes, that could affect your grandparents, but it would be important to see the social security agreement between Germany and Canada, and the actual implementation of such policies.

It is especially aggravating when social democrats are the ones who bring in such policies ...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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