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"There's only one thing different about Barack Obama when it comes to being a Democratic presidential candidate. He's half African-American," Nader said. "Whether that will make any difference, I don't know. I haven't heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What's keeping him from doing that? Is it because he wants to talk white? He doesn't want to appear like Jesse Jackson? We'll see all that play out in the next few months and if he gets elected afterwards."

....

Asked to clarify whether he thought Obama does try to "talk white," Nader said: "Of course.

"I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas, and have a very detailed platform about how the poor is going to be defended by the law, is going to be protected by the law, and is going to be liberated by the law," Nader said. "Haven't heard a thing."

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Yet here we are again, like 2004, with "progressives" and other lefties ogling a hope-filled candidacy. But it's not just Obama's war support that should raise our hackles.

Obama supports the death penalty, opposes single-payer health care, supports nuclear energy, opposes a carbon pollution tax, supports the Cuba embargo, and will not end the vast array of federal subsidies to corporations, including those to the oil and gas cartel.

And as the United States economy slides into a deep recession, Barack Obama is promising more of the same, despite his criticism of John McCain’s economic plan. But behind the curtains of Obama's strategy team is the same set of economic troglodytes intellectuals that led us in to our current financial disaster.

Obama's advisory team includes Harvard economist Jeffrey Liebman, a former Clinton adviser, who believes we ought to privatize social security. Then we have the renowned David Cutler, another Harvardite, who believes our economy can be boosted through an increase in privatized health care costs.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Let's save that for the "what principle is Obama selling out today" (or whatever) thread, and leave this one to discuss Nader's comments about Obama.

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Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:

I think that we can discuss unfair and/or racist attacks against Obama separately as well.

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Interesting. Obama jumps up and down proclaiming that racism isn't endemic to "America" - dumps his pastor and his church for exposing the evils of racism and imperialism - and Nader gets accused of racism for telling the plain truth about Obama?

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
How would "unionist" feel about being accused of "speaking goy"?

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Wrong analogy. During the war, Jewish collaborators (and others) were unhesitatingly accused of talking and acting like Nazis.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright was accused of being "racist" by all kinds of neocon and racist commentators for exposing u.S. crimes against African Americans.

Nader's crime is to have not watched his language, thus giving an opening to the real scoundrels.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Let's save that for the "what principle is Obama selling out today" (or whatever) thread, and leave this one to discuss Nader's comments about Obama.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
It is very clear what Nader meant when he said Obama was "talking white" he is speaking in a way that in no way threatens white privilege, power and entitlement. To say this is the same to what Ferraro said is ridiculous. Ferraro raised all the racist "affirmative action" stereotypes suggesting Obama was only there because he was Black. Nader is not asying that Obama is not black or not black enough but he is pointing out that he is ignoring and abandoning issues that are important and relevant to a majority of black voters.

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Nader's words were not not identical to Ferraro's, but they were certainly compatible. That's why I suggested that she be his running mate. Call it "a balanced ticket".

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Ferraro was attacking Obama on the basis that he does not possess the necessary skills, abilities or experience to be in a position of power and the only reason he was a candidate was because he was black.

Nader was pointing out that Obama is ignoring the realities of Black americans in order not to upset white power interests.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
... he is ignoring and abandoning issues that are important and relevant to a majority of black voters.

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Ralph Nader is in a position to decide which issues are "important and relevant to a majority of black voters?"

As quoted in the OP:

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I haven't heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What's keeping him from doing that?

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Links courtesy of No More Mister Nice Blog:

Barack Obama wants crackdown on predatory lending

Obama is No Fan of Payday Loans

EPA Accepts Obama Proposal to Eliminate Lead Paint From Schools, Childcare Facilities

Just because Nader's criticizing someone you don't like, don't assume he knows what he's talking about. It's apparent that on the specific issues he chose to mention, Obama has had something to say.

ETA: Oops. Forgot this from the blog post I linked to above:

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And he's so afraid of talking about asbestos that he writes a length in his first book about working on an asbestos-removal campaign, to the point that he's been accused of taking too much credit for the effort.

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[ 26 June 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]

It has nothing to do with the fact that he's an African-American. The Republicans did the same thing to John Kerry to Michael Dukakis to Al Gore to Walter Mondale to George McGovern. The only candidate they didn't tag as elitist was Bill Clinton who - not ironically - was the most succesful democrat of the last 40 years.

The Republicans aren't spinning Obama as elitist because he's Black (if anything that makes it harder for them). They're doing it because it's a good way to separate working class voters from the party that will defend their interests (at least marginally better than the Republicans). When Obama's camp responds to the elitist charge with cries of "racism" they play right into the Republican's hands.

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Russ Feingold, talking Jewish as we all know he does, responds:

"Oy vey! Dat vas not a kosher thing to say, what da man named Nader said. I am so upset wit this Nader dat I may have to go eat an entire box of Matzoh wit an egg cream. Oy!"

Diane Feinstein, talking woman as she damn well should, defends Obama as well:

"I know, from the bottom of my vagina to the tips of my breasts, that Barack Obama speaks from his heart and being a compassionate, soulful female I know full-well what a heart is.

If I wasn't here, in my kitchen, baking a cake and emotionally and compassionately raising children... I'd go and give Senator Obama a long meaningful hug."

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
So when Obama lectured black men on abandoning their families on father's day, what was he talking?

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Originally posted by Doug:

Obama certainly isn't the first black man to comment on the role of fathers in black families.

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So when he lowers himself to repeat filthy stereotypes against African Americans, he is speaking as a "black man" - right?

But what Nader said about him is oh so awful - right?

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Originally posted by unionist:
This is a really wonderful glimpse of "America".

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[ 26 June 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Ralph Nader is in a position to decide which issues are "important and relevant to a majority of black voters?"

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No the black community makes it quite clear what is important and relevant to them. It's not like its a secret.

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Links courtesy of No More Mister Nice Blog:

Barack Obama wants crackdown on predatory lending

Obama is No Fan of Payday Loans

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a statement from Obama pledging that, if elected, he will work towards a federal interest rate cap on small personal loans for consumers. In the midst of his eight-page proposition to "strengthen our economy and help working families," released Friday of last week, was explicitly outlined a plan for a thirty-six percent federal cap on fast cash loan interest rates.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Jerimiah Wright also spoke clearly ...

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
What a friend of the working man and woman.

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What does that have to do with Ralph Nader?

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But Nader tried to claim that Obama hadn't addressed these issues at all and obviously Nader was wrong.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

Perhaps you and Nader don't share the same definition of addressed.

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Obama is trying to distance himself from these issues as demonstrated by his treatment of Rev. Wright.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
You're the one implying that issues important to Black voters are somehow a secret...

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Posted by unionist: So when he lowers himself to repeat filthy stereotypes against African Americans, he is speaking as a "black man" - right?

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Did you read Obama's Father's Day speech? He wasn't repeating a stereotype, he was stating a fact. In the US, half of black children live in single parent households headed by women. To sensitively bring this issue up on the day we celebrate fatherhood is appropriate, especially when coming from a black man raised in a single parent family.

I think he should go for the all elite team and unite all Americans under one party.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
Meanwhile, its clear that Obama will get something like 98% of the African-American vote against McCain and that turnout will be at an all-time high. I guess they seem to like him just fine - even if a few Caucasians in Canada don't think he's doing a good enough job of "addressing their issues".

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I've implied no such thing. I've indicated that I find Nader to be an unlikely spokesperson for African American voters and I stand by that. I also pointed to the specific issues that Nader mentioned and then provided links to demonstrate that Nader's "haven't heard a thing" is disingenuous.

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You said

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Ralph Nader is in a position to decide which issues are "important and relevant to a majority of black voters?"

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
The point is Nader is not deciding, he is just listening to what people in the black community are expressing it is disingeneous and inaccurate to suggest that he is imposing his views on the Black community.

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I'd appreciate it if you'd stop putting words in my mouth. Where have I accused Nader of "imposing" anything? I've just accused him of being wrong and backed it up with, you know, evidence.

The context you seem to be ignoring is that when he spoke about the issues that were supposedly of importance to African American voters, he listed some specific issues to illustrate his point. I provided links to indicate that his claim of silence from Obama on those specific issues was wrong.

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I'd appreciate it if you'd stop putting words in my mouth. Where have I accused Nader of "imposing" anything? I've just accused him of being wrong and backed it up with, you know, evidence.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
If you say that Nader is "deciding" what is important to Black voters you are implying that he is somehow imposing his views. Maybe you might wish to understand the words before you type them.

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In determining which issues Nader seemed to feel were worth raising, I worked directly from his own words.

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Originally posted by pogge:
I provided links to indicate that his claim of silence from Obama on those specific issues was wrong.

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I'd get tired of repeating that irrelevant claim, if I were you. Here is the important thing Nader said:

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I haven't heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What's keeping him from doing that?

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I don't think it's inconceivable that Obama might feel the need to compensate for being black, and for having muslim parents for that matter. Libyan leader Ghadaffi said something to that extent recently.

While I personally had a lot of respect for Nader, up to and including his 2000 run, my view of him is quickly diminishing.

I believe that if he was serious about making changes, he should be seeking a senate seat or any sort of position where he could actually make a difference. His perpetual runs for president seems now more about him than the issues he wants to see changes on.

This is upsetting, since the issues he supports are very much aligned with what I support and I do encourage people to challenge the entrenched political system.

Would he ever step aside and support another candidate with similar views?

His recent comments that Barack Obama is talking white or not willing to take on "the white power structure" is not racist, but using race language to be self serving and get media attention.

Does he make valid points?

Some.

Does he undermine them by using unbecoming language that is actually decisive?

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Originally posted by unionist:

Give us a few links to show how "wrong" he is, please. If you're not too tired of the "bad faith" in this thread, that is.

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No wonder the left is irrelevant.

[ 27 June 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
Accusing a Black man of "talking white" is totally racist anyway you look at it.

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Originally posted by Pogo:

Didn't he do this already (post 19 in this thread)?

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No, friend, he concocted this straw man that Nader was attacking Obama for allegedly never mentioning those issues - then he provided links showing Obama had mentioned those issues.

That's why I repeated what Nader really said - which is that Obama had never proclaimed "a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos".

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
So let me get this straight, progressives who point out that Obama is not a progressive are evil MFers. But Obama, who is not a progressive, moves further right everyday, and who wants to expand Bush's wars into Iran, Pakistan, possibly Lebanon, and who has even failed to recognize Palestinians as humans with rights, but is ever so careful to exclude Moslims from contaminating his campaign, is Mother Freakin' Theresa.

No wonder the left is irrelevant.

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That's why I call it political "correctness" in service of the White Wealthy Ruling Class.

Obama swears himself blue in the face that he's not at all like those "bad" African Americans (Jeremiah Wright, "negligent fathers", etc. etc.). But if you expose his pandering to the White Wealthy Ruling Class - why, be very careful as to how you phrase your exposé, or you could be tagged as a racist!!

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Originally posted by pogge:
This thread has confirmed that, for whatever reason, there's just way too much bad faith around here when the subject is American politics.

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Yes. Obama is moving more to the center (a cool new euphemism for right) but he is doing that strategically to get elected. Sure, he's pissing on us. But we just have to suck it up for Obama to get elected on a right wing platform indistinguishable from the Bush regime.

And then, after he gets elected with our silence, acquiescence, and active help, then ... then we really turn the heat on!

What utter bullshit.

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Browsing in a library through some old copies of Life magazine he played a game with himself, trying to guess what a story was about from its accompanying photograph. One, however, perplexed him. It showed an older man wearing dark glasses and a raincoat walking down an empty road. Obama was stumped: there seemed nothing to it. He turned the page and found another photograph, which was a close-up of the man's hands.

"They had a strange, unnatural pallor," Obama later recalled, "as if blood had been drawn from the flesh. Turning back to the first picture, I now saw that the man's crinkly hair, his heavy lips and broad, fleshy nose, all had this same uneven, ghostly hue." He read on, assuming the man must be an albino or the victim of radiation. He was neither. It transpired that his condition was self-inflicted. He, like thousands of other black men and women, had paid to receive a chemical treatment to lighten the colour of his skin, in the vain pursuit of happiness as a white person.

...

It is an affecting, powerful anecdote and one which helps to explain who Barack Obama is and what drives him. But is it true? It is not, at least according to the Chicago Tribune, which took Obama's book, tested its veracity and found it wanting. Historians at Life magazine told the newspaper's reporters that they could find no story in its archives to corroborate the presidential contender's testimony. When this was put to Obama he suggested that he may have got the name of the magazine wrong. "It might have been an Ebony article or it might have been ... who knows where it was," he said. Likewise, it emerged that other stories Obama had told were embellished or downplayed. Some made him look better; others were over-egged.

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[ 28 June 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]