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» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Can the founding ideals of the United States be reclaimed and revived?

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Author Topic: Can the founding ideals of the United States be reclaimed and revived?
Ken Burch
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posted 04 August 2006 02:11 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The revolutionary ideals, the idea that human beings had the right to rise up against oppression and cast if off(and to cast it off again after the revolution when the initial uprising turned out to mean freedom only for the property-owning white male minority).

My country has badly disgraced itself globally. Our leaders have sinned against liberty in the name of defending property rights, rights that will always be important only to a few. We have attempted to impose not democracy(which would mean letting the people of every country decide what they wanted to do, and not leave them at the mercy of the wealthy within their society and the corporate giants without)but "capitalism and democracy".

Can we shake off the chains we have placed on our country's spirit?

Can we take up what should always have been our natural purpose...helping all the people of the earth to live life on their own terms, and ending injustice, rather than perpetuating it?

The signs are not promising.

There are those who seek to renew our country, but they tend to be shouted down and silenced by the sneers of talk radio and Fox News.

Can America, finally, be born?

I ask this in a non-U.S. website headquartered in a country just north of the U.S., because I think it's a question that people within and without my country should have a say in.


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Noise
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posted 04 August 2006 02:22 PM      Profile for Noise     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ken, tis with all due seriousness that I say this.. but quite honestly no. American politics are dominated by corporate interests first and foremost, and as such liberty and freedom will always be trumped by profit and greed. And the media will be there to make this look like it's all in the name of liberty and freedom, all the while stuffing corporate cash into their pockets as well.

Theres a joke by Futurama that has the situation summed up very well. It's the year 3000 and the 2 presidential candidates 'Jack Johnson' and 'John Jackson' are arguing back and forth

Jack : I say my opponents 3$ uranium tax goes too far!!!
(supporters standup and cheer)

John : I say my opponents 3$ uranium tax doesn't go far enough!!!
(equal amount of cheering).

When parties compete over the same corporate donations, they eventually become the same thing. Sadly, the only choice Americans currently have is Ralph Nader and "the same thing" (apparently them e-voting machines means your vote isn't properly counted anyway... Wouldn't be an interesting historical peice to go back and find out Al Gore actually won in 2000?)

Though, I don't intend any of this to make it look like the Canadian system is much better.


From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 04 August 2006 02:33 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The first thing that the US has to do is stop thinking it has the solution to anyone's problems except maybe your own. I don't however see how you can regain control of your government from the corporate fascists that have been running it for decades or is that centuries?

You could start by enacting very strict political donation laws that outlaw all and I mean all corporate donations. Then you might want to work on starting a new progressive party in your country once the dirty money is banned.

As well some anti-trust style laws that prohibit ownership of your media by a small handful of people and corporations. The North American media is not free it has all been bought and paid for and he who pays the piper picks the music.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 04 August 2006 04:05 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Given that the founding fathers produced a consitution that:

1. Had only the house of reps directly elected and only by men meeting property qualifications.
2. Allowed slavery and but also allowed slaves to be counted at a fractional value in calculating how many congressional seats and electoral votes each state would get.

I would think the US is right on track.


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Proaxiom
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posted 04 August 2006 05:47 PM      Profile for Proaxiom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe it can. It's just a matter of getting the right leader.

Nobody reasonable every said democracy is a perfect system. It's good because it has a built-in defense against tyranny, in that leaders are made accountable to the people. But it's bad because it puts the ultimate responsibility for good governance in the hands of the people, most of whom haven't the slightest idea what good governance is.

So bad leaders sometimes get elected. But things do correct sooner or later. The US Constitution is still instact, if somewhat the worse for wear. I'm not certain that the next US president will do a better job or restore reason and integrity back to the office, but I doubt he (or she) will be worse, and if not now then at some point things will improve.

Regression to the mean.

I hope like hell that the Democrats don't nominate another John Kerry.


From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 04 August 2006 06:00 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Proaxiom:
I hope like hell that the Democrats don't nominate another John Kerry.

But they will. That's just it - its a Punch and Judy show. Both parties are bought and paid for.

As for Ken's question the blunt answer is no - not without copious amounts of bloodshed. And the American people don't "do" revolution anymore - they're still far to content to play with their toys. You can't eat freedom and you can't drive it or download it or show it off to your neighbours as well. You can just watch it trickle away in little bits while the government counts on you playing with your toys enough not to really notice.

The only way you'll see a revolution in this country is 50+ million out of work, hundreds of thousands of foreclosures, widespread poverty, hunger and illness.

By then, of course, it will be too late.

Sorry to be the pessimist.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 04 August 2006 06:57 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:
The only way you'll see a revolution in this country is 50+ million out of work, hundreds of thousands of foreclosures, widespread poverty, hunger and illness.
You mean like in the 1930's?

I must have missed hearing about the revolution that happened back then.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 04 August 2006 06:57 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is a great story and great line:

Rolling Stone: The Mansion Family

quote:
That's why the marriage of David Brooks and the Democratic Leadership Council makes perfect sense. It's repugnant and the kind of thing one should shield young children from knowing about, but it makes perfect sense. Both prefer a policy of being "cautious soldiers," "incrementalists" who shun upheavals and vote the status quo, although they subscribe to this policy for different reasons. Brooks worships the status quo because he has no penis and wants to spend the rest of his life buying periwinkle bath towels without troubling interruptions of conscience. The DLC, a nonprofit created in the mid-1980s to help big business have a say in the Democratic Party platform, supports the status quo because they are paid agents of the commercial interests that define it.

From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

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