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Author Topic: Haggling
Victor Von Mediaboy
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Babbler # 554

posted 20 August 2001 01:44 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/010819/655067.html
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 387

posted 20 August 2001 06:35 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The fine art of haggling, something everyone should be trained in. The article brings up some excellent points. Anyone who doesn't haggle or at least research large purchases is a fool and, luckily, if the purchase is not an immediately necessary item, most people can wait for the sales.

Which brings up another point, grocery store sales. Why do the sales on staples never take place at the beginning of the month, when most low-income people get their cheques and are completely out of food?


From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 21 August 2001 02:46 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Certain personalities are adept at getting discounts and concessions everywhere they go. I have a friend who always asks, "What kind of discount can you give me on that?" wherever he goes. And he usually gets one. I never do. He also asks at department stores for a discount, and if the clerk won't give it, asks to speak to the floor manager. And he usually gets the discount. You don't need to wait for sale days!

quote:
Why do the sales on staples never take place at the beginning of the month, when most low-income people get their cheques and are completely out of food?

A simple rephrasing provides the answer:

Sales on staples never take place at the beginning of the month, because then most low-income people have gotten their cheques and are completely out of food.

Evil but true. Low income people are primarily there to make Galen Weston richer.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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posted 21 August 2001 04:35 AM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're right. The thing is they don't realize that if the staples were on sale, most people will buy one item they wouldn't otherwise and spend a bit more than they planned. You get richer by getting people to add that one extra item. That's why the stuff at the checkout stands are impulse items.
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 24 August 2001 11:17 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my experience buying and selling in the Canadian market place is about control. The seller wants to control the sale. This is done buy using various sales techniques. This will allow them to sell things that the buyer doesn't really need. There are methods they can use to "make" or induce the buyer to feel like they need their product or service. Many sales people have little knowledge about the product they are selling, what they have are purely sales skills. The buyer has more power than the seller would like to admit. Time is the most powerful. I make a rule to always sleep on it and not sign anything, especially over the phone and at the door. As great as the “deal” sounds at that very red hot second I can guarantee that at closer examination or sober second thought or a second opinion from a friend or family member the “deal” doesn’t look so hot after the rose coloured glasses come off. I find that the 24 hour rule always gives me an out when dealing in a pressurized sales pitch. Usually the sales person just goes away because the sale was really just a con job in the first place.
When signing a contract for something that requires borrowed money always make the contract “dependant upon financing” that way the buyer has some time as well as the benefit of being able to back out by telling the seller “they wouldn’t lend me the money”.

From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 184

posted 24 August 2001 11:58 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The seller wants to control the sale. This is done buy using various sales techniques. This will allow them to sell things that the buyer doesn't really need. There are methods they can use to "make" or induce the buyer to feel like they need their product or service.

Have you ever wondered why a large grocery store has a bakery and a deli? Ahh the smell of fresh baked breads and roasted chicken and such. Makes you nice and hungry. It isn't cause distributing the goods from a few locations around town is less profitable.

So control is an illusion. You only think someone has control over you because they have convinced you that it is so. Help yourself to see through this smoke screen and you will find that no one controls your mind but you.

When it comes to argument, why you need to have something that only hours before you were able to live without, a sharpy will appeal to your baser instincts. Pride, ego, and above all the health and/or well being of your children. Why else would you need a $2000 vacuum? Ask yourself this. Why haven't I died yet, since I haven't had one of these?

Buyer beware!


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 August 2001 12:19 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh Slick - but now that you mention it, I WISH I had a $2000 vacuum. Then the floors would practically clean themselves!

Oops. Fell for it again. Rats.

I've heard that about going to places and asking for discounts. However, the one thing that really ticked me off was when David Tsibouchi made the comment about haggling at the grocery store over dented cans of tuna. Not just because of the dented can thing (can you say botulism?) but just because of the idea of haggling with a cashier who is likely making minimum wage, and has no power whatsoever over the pricing at the store. So what, every customer should haggle with every cashier and hold every line up while the supervisor or manager goes about approving or disapproving every item in every person's grocery cart? It's just unreasonable.

However, I have often gotten 10-15% discounts at places like Zellers when the packaging was ripped open or when the product was slightly scratched or damaged in a way that made it look slightly less new, but in no way altered its function. The day I discovered you could do that (and the cashier has the ability to just do it, you know, if they see the damage), I did it every time. Why not? Doesn't hurt the cashier. You just have to have the guts to do it, and endure the incredulous stares of the shoppers behind you in line, that's all. It got so that I started LOOKING for the damaged packages.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Socrataire
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posted 25 August 2001 03:51 AM      Profile for Socrataire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are you all trying to start a consumer revolt here?

I'm going to report you immediately to CSIS!

Actually I totally support pressuring the store (not the cashiers) to lower their prices. Imagine if everybody started doing it.

Unfortunately it is very hard to organize consumers for a mass revolt. That's because production and distribution of goods is socially organized but the consumption of the product is done by individuals and that includes both goods and surplus value.

I feel my "lecture" persona coming on so I will now drop the subject.

[ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: Socrataire ]


From: WWW | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
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posted 25 August 2001 05:01 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another thing, by the way - from the reverse side of this equation. This site has some serious complaints by retail employees about customers who abuse the item-return system. One employee who posts there has reported that so many returns came back on some products from people abusing the system to use-something-then-return-it that prices on some goods literally shot up 3 dollars in less than two months.

If we want price cuts by haggling on damaged stuff, we have to also try not to be bad customers by abusing defective-return policies.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 25 August 2001 10:56 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was acquainted with a woman once who did that all the time. She was a Queen's student boarding with a friend's mother. She would build stuff, and owned no tools. What she would do is go to Canadian Tire, buy whatever specialty tool she needed at the moment, bring it home, use it the way she needed for a few days, then bring it back for a refund. She used the place like a tool library.

I was working as a cashier at the time (at a bakery, not Canadian Tire), and I thought she was a bit of a jerk for doing that. She told me, "But they don't lose anything from it. I return it like new." So I said, "Do you tell them when you buy it that you're going to return it in a few days, after you've used it?" She said, "No, of course not." I said, "Then you're being dishonest." Apparently I was racist for thinking so because she was an international student who didn't have much money (she had more than I did since I was living on minimum wage and she was living on money her rich family was sending her). Oh well.

I read that site you posted, Dr. Conway. It was hilarious. I would have LOVED that site when I was working at the bakery - but I had some other friends at the time working retail that I could vent with. I had almost forgotten just how contemptuous I used to be of stupid customers.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 25 August 2001 11:22 AM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As some of you know, I work for myself. I have now and again had costomers that call me up to tell me their computer is broken. When I get there, they say they never touched it.
All the deleted files must have deleted themselves and the only way a virus could get into the system is if it walk in through the door and installed itself.

Or the chappy I had a couple of years ago that wanted to return a video card under warranty. Problem was that the video card he wanted to return was a very old one that I never sold him. It seems that there is always someone who is out to shaft you no matter which side of the cash register you're on.


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 25 August 2001 06:08 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought about doing that today. I needed a Torx T8 screwdriver to open up my laptop. So I bought one from Canadian Tire. About $6. I completed the task in about 5 minutes, and now I can't imagine ever needing a Torx T8 screwdriver ever again. Why not just return it. It's still in perfect condition, and it's just gonna end up in a landfill eventually. Why not return it so someone else who actually has an ongoing need for this screwdriver can buy it, and the factory won't have to manufacture another one to replace it?
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 25 August 2001 06:38 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mediaboy: I'll take the screwdriver. Seriously, BTW.

Geeks like me that get "under the hood" need a good toolset. I have one already, but I can always use extra screwdrivers. For example my roomie brought home a loooooong screwdriver which is damned handy when you need to work inside a computer case.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 25 August 2001 06:39 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Double-post. Ack!

The reason returns drive up prices is because of the paperwork, employees' wasted time, and extra carrying-cost of inventory.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 26 August 2001 09:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In other words, it's our passion for "efficiency" that's causing this inefficiency?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 26 August 2001 02:04 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mediaboy, I did think of that aspect - being forced to buy and keep something you will only use once. And in your case, it's not like you do it every other day. I mean, this woman did it so often I think they probably groaned when they saw her coming.

I don't know what the solution to that is. Too bad there aren't things like tool-lending libraries the way there are book lending libraries. In fact, I'll bet places like Canadian Tire, who have the inventory anyhow, would probably make some decent extra money if they sold lending-library memberships to people (say, $10-20 a year) so that people could borrow an item and return it. If they don't return it on time, the cost automatically gets debited from their credit card, and they've bought it.

Then again, I guess it could be argued (especially by that woman I was talking about) that this system is already informally in place - except instead of a membership, you pay the price of the tool as a deposit, then get the money back if you return it in perfect condition within the time limit of the returns policy of the store.

Sigh. Guess it's not as black and white as I thought. Darn. I like it when it's black and white. Oh well.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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